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You are behind the hate. You promote hate by creating stereotypes to slander, stigmatize, and scapegoat an entire people. The method was once used to great success against Jews. You are the new Nazi. Every culture has its throwbacks, dinosaurs, and bigots. The racist is the person who portrays the warts as the whole body. That is you. How repugnant you are.

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[ 16 January 2007: Message edited by: Khimia ]

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You are a disturbed individual. I did not create this documentary. If you are unable to comment intelligently then please do not comment at all.

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It is an age old technique of promoting hatred and demonizing peoples.

[ 16 January 2007: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]

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You are promoting it as anti-Islamic hate literature. Racists such as yourself are disturbed and ought to be treated as the unhuman shit that you are.

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You are are both disturbed and a liar. I am in no way promoting this British Documentary. It is being widely discussed across the web and certainly merits discussion on babble. Please take your self-righteous hypocritical bile elsewhere.

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Bullshit! You're the liar. You didn't post that to generate discussion. You posted it to generate hate. Pure and simple. And, yes, it is all over the Internet. So is white supremacism, child porn, and violence. Should we expect that from you next for "discussion"? You posted it for one reason and one reason only.

[ 16 January 2007: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]

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Originally posted by Khimia:
You are a disturbed individual. I did not create this documentary. If you are unable to comment intelligently then please do not comment at all.

[ 16 January 2007: Message edited by: Khimia ]

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quote:

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Originally posted by cooper3339:
Shazum, you are absolutely correct. Regardless of the persons motivations behind the filming of the Imams, these things are still being preached to a congregation that follow these teachings. For the Imams that follow the more extreme forms of teachings, there should be consequences.

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Statement comes complete with mafia-talk about "consequences."

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Originally posted by cooper3339:
Cueball, regardless of denomination or affiliation, do you not think that there should be consequences for people who promote these types ideals?

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If you like. But only if we rank the idea that there should be "consequences" for people who promote "the ideal" that there should be "consequences" for the "promotions of ideals" (thought crime) as first and foremost on the list seditious views. In other words, my extermination camp would first and foremost choose the people who volunteered for the duty of operating the camp as its inmates.

But that of course is a meaningless conundrum in the real world. Therefore, I generally approve of enforcement of social standards through law, or adminstrative sanction, for the actions of persons, not what they think or espouse.

Unfortunately this principle also protects you from the consequences of the ideals you promote. I will have to live with that.

[ 16 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

[ 16 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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Originally posted by Shazum:
i'm finding it really disheartening that people on here are defending imams who preach downright hatred of gays, subserviance of women, and hatred about our entire secular way of life.

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Originally posted by pogge:
I find it really disheartening that people still try and slide this crock o' shit piece of reasoning by us. Refusing to condemn someone as much as you would like or on your schedule is not the same thing as defending him. Standing up for someone's right to believe and speak as he will is not the same thing as defending the content of those beliefs or that speech.

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The Imam most quoted, an american convert, said that Muslim people should not obey laws that conflicted with Islam, but on the other hand I did not see him saying that Muslims should take the law into their own hands to assert Sharia law.

I did agree with Imam who said he disagreed with the Islamic militants who practice what is known as terrorism. the very same converted American Imam who as so reactionary.

Basicly, while interesting, this is a one sided report, which neglects to point out that Mosques are not unified institutions but rather places where numerous opinions might be heard, and where it is very difficult under Islamic practice to censor or prevent Imams of whatever stripe from preaching, nor did the report show even a single incident where more moderate Imams spoke against the more conservative elements, as they often do.

In other words this is a one sided report, that sought out the most obnoxious elements among the British Imams and exclusively highlighted them, as if they were the mainstream opiniom without exception. In other words it depicts a negative, and unbalanced picture of modern Muslims apparently calculated to cultivate fear and xenephhobia.

[ 16 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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Prime Minister Tony Blair recently described tolerance as 'what makes Britain Britain' but in this extensive investigation Dispatches reveals how a message of hatred and segregation is being spread throughout the UK and examines how it is influenced by the religious establishment of Saudi Arabia.

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From the Channel 4 link above.

Yeah, I remember almost pissing myself with that nice quote from Mr. Blair about tolerance. Anybody else remember it?

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“Our tolerance is part of what makes Britain, Britain. Conform to it; or don't come here. We don't want the hate-mongers, whatever their race, religion or creed”

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Funny how they only picked out a bit of the quote. We are so tolerant, you have to conform to our way, or don't come at all! That's how tolerant we are! And I won't even mention the hate-mongers born, bred and educated in the heart of the Empire - can't send them off anywhere at this point, now can I? The colonies are full up, or, tragically, lost.

Tony Blair preaches from the pulpit at the front of this modern, efficient, clean, capitalist, democratic, open, secular (?) country.

The point is that Weislader does not in any way represent the mainstream view of the NDP or its convention. To create a documentary that focussed on Weislader and the Socialist Caucus, exclusively would create a completely false and misleading impression that the NDP was a hot bed of Marxist activists.

It is not.

In fact I deliberately chose this example because Weislader is not a bigot, and the purpose was to highlight the problems with "selective" (as opposed to representative) journalism, in theory, free of any emotionally charged bagage.

[ 16 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

[ 17 January 2007: Message edited by: Kronstadt ]

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I think it is important that this documentary be discussed.

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Sorry, that is a load. The purpose is to promote hate and you know it.

[ 17 January 2007: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]

[ 17 January 2007: Message edited by: Kronstadt ]

So, now, you are the one who said the film should be "dicussed." I have been discussing it. You have been attacking people on this board for attacking people on this board. So. why don't you take your own advice, and start dicussing the issue at hand, rather than attacking people on the board?

So discuss! Anything to say, here, about the film, as you suggested should be done?

I invite you, for instance, to respond to my comments about the nature of bias and the use of selective reporting, in order to paint a distorted picture of a community, say by doing something like interviewing people from the KKK and not making it clear that the KKK is not representative of the Christian community by providing interviews with other Christians who are anti-racists.

One could easily come away from such a film thinking that all white christians are racists who think that lybching black people has to be done sometimes, if you were unfamiliar with US culture.

[ 17 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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Those outed in this documentary are the ones espousing hate, no one else in this thread has done so other than yourself with the hateful comments you have made against other posters. This matter needs to be discussed.

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Big Brother crashes into politics

Shilpa fans burn effigy of Big Brother producer

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"What is happening on Big Brother is just holding the mirror to the western society," leading Bollywood film maker Mahesh Bhatt told Reuters. "This is the real, discriminating face of the West you can see on the streets of London or New York," he said.

Bollywood in fury over 'Brother'

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[ 17 January 2007: Message edited by: libertarian ]

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I wonder why no progressives condem the messages portraid in the videos: women are inferior, advacting violence against women and gays, etc.
It seems that progressives pander to Muslims but freely attack Christians

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Originally posted by libertarian:
I wonder why no progressives condem the messages portraid in the videos: women are inferior, advacting violence against women and gays, etc.

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Originally posted by Kronstadt:
Well said Libertarian and needfully so. Certain "progressives" are anything but.

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Originally posted by libertarian:
I wonder why no progressives condem the messages portraid in the videos: women are inferior, advacting violence against women and gays, etc.
It seems that progressives pander to Muslims but freely attack Christians

[ 17 January 2007: Message edited by: libertarian ]

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Here is Cueball's denunciation of the opinions in that clip.

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I disagreed with almost everyone of the comments selcted out of the conference by the Channel Four producers, I don't think the laws of England should be ammended so as to throw gay people off mountains, nor do I think that parents should hit their children, a common practice anyway and prmoted by many religious and right wing groups.

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They were just for your benefit, of course, because all of us who hang around here and post as frequently as we do already know how we feel about such opinions. We're all strongly against them. That's why threads starting with a story about some awful bigotry or atrocity often die quick deaths. There's nothing for us to say that hasn't been said a million times before.

And here is Cueball's criticism of the intentions of the clip:

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In other words this is a one sided report, that sought out the most obnoxious elements among the British Imams and exclusively highlighted them, as if they were the mainstream opiniom without exception. In other words it depicts a negative, and unbalanced picture of modern Muslims apparently calculated to cultivate fear and xenephhobia

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I think it's more than possible to counter khimia's propaganda without resorting to calling him a Nazi and the various other epithets Frustrated Mess is resorting to in this thread.

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Originally posted by libertarian:
I wonder why no progressives condem the messages portraid in the videos: women are inferior, advacting violence against women and gays, etc.
It seems that progressives pander to Muslims but freely attack Christians

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In other words this is a one sided report, that sought out the most obnoxious elements among the British Imams and exclusively highlighted them, as if they were the mainstream opiniom without exception. In other words it depicts a negative, and unbalanced picture of modern Muslims apparently calculated to cultivate fear and xenephhobia.
[/QUOTE]

[ 17 January 2007: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]

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Ah, so that is what you want to promote, isn't it? So Israel has a racist, violent hate monger as a Deputy Prime Minister. How come Israelis have not left the country nor denounced this man and his appointment?

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[ 17 January 2007: Message edited by: Khimia ]

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Originally posted by Khimia:
Huh? I suggest you seek help in some form your ..uhm interest in Israel borders on the bizarre.

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Okay, this has really gone to far, alluding to poor mental health is no no no...and show again what you are.

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Huh? I suggest you seek help in some form your ..uhm interest in Israel borders on the bizarre.

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Originally posted by Khimia:
Of course it is a one sided report, it is a POV documentary whose singular purpose was to expose the hatemongers in the mosques. I doubt the documentarians would have enjoyed much success had they enlisted the hatemongers in advance by asking them to take part in a balanced examination of the full range of Muslim beliefs. Your statements suggest that a typical viewing audience would swallow the crazed imams views as fully supported by the muslim community at large, now that is a bit of a stretch. However it does raise a larger concern: Why did the congregations sit through this hatespeech without evident protest. Did the authors leave this out?

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Silence, as an indication of guilt is an Orwellian concept, more suited to the Spainish Inquisition, the witch trials or the machinations of Joseph McCarthy.

Apparently you have chosen to removed yourself, (even further than the documentary producers, im might add) from the dialogue of sentient peoples

I mean perhaps these people were taught not to interupt people when they are speaking. No one seems to interupt George Bush, that doesn't infer that all the Democrats who applaud at the end of his addresses agree with him, does it?

[ 17 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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Originally posted by Khimia:
Huh? I suggest you seek help in some form your ..uhm interest in Israel borders on the bizarre.

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And while you're at it, you can explain to me what you think should be done about people preaching hate in their churches. Since it happens in the vast majority of faiths, it would be a great help if you could devise a workable solution.

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I mean perhaps these people were taught not to interupt people when they are speaking.

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And while you're at it, you can explain to me what you think should be done about people preaching hate in their churches. Since it happens in the vast majority of faiths, it would be a great help if you could devise a workable solution.

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My initial position stands.

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Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
So if someone posted a link to one of Zundel's rants, you would be open to a discussion as to the veracity of claims against the holocaust without anyone claiming anti-semitism?

You might think it is different, but it is not. Hate suceeds when we give it the validity racists demand.

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Yes, it is different. Unless, of course, you'd like to be able to call anyone who posts the most extreme elements of the Christian fundamentalist religion on babble a Nazi.

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Originally posted by Khimia:
Huh? I suggest you seek help in some form your ..uhm interest in Israel borders on the bizarre.

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Cut it out, or you too can take a hike.