I am frankly shocked that Derrick would give credibility to Elmasry who claimed every Israeli over 18 was a credible target to be killed and Felton just a plain old fashioned anti-Semite (just go to his site which because of its disturbing content I will not provide a link but I will give you a link to Terry Glavin's blog.
He wrote a very instructive piece on Felton.

Terry Glavin

Is there any explanation.

[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: ohara ]

quote:

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Originally posted by ohara:
A friend in British Columbia tells me that Rabble editor Derrick O'Keefe appeared at a forum with Mohammad Elmasry and Greg Felton.

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Glavin again

quote:

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Originally posted by ohara:
Any reasonable person would never make common cause with the likes of him. Still no explanation then?

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"Still"? You asked the question, like, 20 minutes ago. What, you think Derrick is on 24 hour call to answer your demands on babble on split second notice?

If your organization wants Derrick to comment immediately, maybe you should have someone give him a call instead of posting anonymous smears on an internet forum.

I know little about Greg Felton, but I have never once seen an anti-Semitic opinion attributed to him. Perhaps ohara could grace us with a single example? And I don't mean a paraphrase from Glavin, who is a frenzied propagandist - I mean an example from FELTON. And I don't mean something expressing hatred or contempt or scorn for Israel, but rather for the Jewish people.

I hope that's a fairly clear request.

quote:

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Originally posted by ohara:
Nice try Michelle but lets not change direction here to make it about me.

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It would be a much more legitimate discussion that way. All we have so far is a second hand, unconfirmed report from an unnamed source that three individuals attended a forum the nature of which hasn't been disclosed to us. We don't know whether any or all of the three were organizers, participants or merely in the audience. (We don't even know if there was an audience.) Nor do we know the subject under discussion at the forum or whether it has relevance at all to your concerns about anti-semitism. We don't even know if any of the three were even aware of any of the others' presence let alone whether they had a group-hug and thereby gave each other credibility.

quote:

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Originally posted by pogge:
It would be a much more legitimate discussion that way. All we have so far is a second hand, unconfirmed report from an unnamed source that three individuals attended a forum the nature of which hasn't been disclosed to us.

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Wonder no more. Here's the clip from the rabble announcement that went out yesterday to every single member and supporter of rabble, including every current babbler who hasn't opted out of the weekly announce:

quote:

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And, for those of you in Vancouver and nearby, looking for something to do tonight? rabble.ca Editor, Derrick O'Keefe, is joining speakers Dr. M. I. Elmasry and Khurram Awan for a seminar on Islamophobia organized by the Canadian Islamic Congress. Look for more info about this and other progressive events on our What's Up events listing.

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Elmasry's infamous comment, for which he copiously apologized, was not in the slightest "anti-semitic". It was framed as justification for killing civilians on the grounds that they are subject to compulsory military service.

quote:

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Originally posted by Michelle:
Wonder no more.

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Thank you. I'll confess to being behind in my email. But this still leaves me confused as to the basis for ohara's demand for an explanation. I'm at a loss as to why O'Keefe would be in a position to lend credibility to Elmasry on the subject of Islamophobia given the latter's position in, and knowledge of, Canada's Muslim community.

[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: pogge ]

quote:

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Originally posted by ohara:
I am frankly shocked that Derrick would give credibility to Elmasry who claimed every Israeli over 18 was a credible target to be killed (because they are all members of the IDF reserve by Israeli law) and Felton just a plain old fashioned anti-Semite (just go to his site which because of its disturbing content I will not provide a link but I will give you a link to Terry Glavin's blog.
He wrote a very instructive piece on Felton.

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[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]

Of course, he was forced to back down on that one because the mainstream media exposed it for the lie and the smear that it was.

Someday he might even back down on his smears of Elmasry too based on a comment that he has offered an unqualified apology for making. Let's all hold our breath, shall we?

Alaghabra smear thread

[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]

quote:

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4. “If someone were to deny the existence of God ... and deny the existence of prophets and religion, they would not bother him. However, if someone were to deny the myth of the Jews’ massacre, all the Zionist mouthpieces and the governments subservient to the Zionists tear their larynxes and scream against the person as much as they can.”
The Holocaust has been so polluted by propaganda that it’s virtually impossible to separate fact from disinformation, so I cannot say for certain if Ahmadinejad is right. For its part, the International Committee of the Red Cross published a three-volume report in 1948 in which it found no evidence of systematic genocide. On the other hand, estimates of Jewish deaths range from 470,000 to 9 million!

I believe Ahmadinejad is wrong to deny the Holocaust outright, but he is right to call into question the dogmatic acceptance of Zionist verities, such as Auschwitz’s Crematorium I, which exists today. As reporter Eric Conan wrote in a lengthy 1995 exposé for France’s L’Express:

“In 1948, when the Museum was created, Crematorium I was reconstructed in a supposed original state. Everything about it is false (Tout y est faux): the dimensions of the gas chamber, the locations of the doors, the openings for pouring in Zyklon B, the ovens (rebuilt according to the recollections of some survivors), the height of the chimney.”

Also, the new plaque at the entrance to Auschwitz reflects the Polish government’s revision of the number of dead from 4 million to 1.5 million. The 4 million figure came from Capt. Rudolph Höss, the camp commandant, whose testimony has been discredited.

Despite the reduction of 2.5 million, the Zionist figure of 6 million is still maintained. Clearly, this number is pure myth, and Ahmadinejad is at least partly right.

Final score: 3.5 out of 4. Excellent!

It seems honesty and courage are Iranian values. Too bad they aren’t Canadian, eh Mr. Martin?

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Felton

And remind is right my information is second hand. Perhaps Derrick did not attend the event as told to me or walked away from Felton. I posted what I heard from a secondary source. If I am wrong I unhesitatingly apologize.

[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: ohara ]

quote:

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Originally posted by unionist:
And before we start making excuses for Derrick, I want some proof that Felton and Elmasry are "anti-semites".

Elmasry's infamous comment, for which he copiously apologized, was not in the slightest "anti-semitic". It was framed as justification for killing civilians on the grounds that they are subject to compulsory military service.

Ohara's characterization of these two persons is defamatory. Truth is a defence - so show us the truth. Terry Glavin is a pretty pathetic authority in that regard, so let's have some evidence, or a retraction.

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quote:

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Originally posted by pogge:
Thank you. I'll confess to being behind in my email. But this still leaves me confused as to the basis for ohara's demand for an explanation. I'm at a loss as to why O'Keefe would be in a position to lend credibility to Elmasry on the subject of Islamophobia given the latter's position in, and knowledge of, Canada's Muslim community.

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Sorry, I did figure maybe you weren't getting the rabble announce anymore - I wasn't implying that you should have seen it.

quote:

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Originally posted by Michelle:
I'm not sure what his role there was...

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quote:

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Originally posted by ohara:

I don't believe I called Elmasry an anti-Semite.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Michelle:
Sorry, I did figure maybe you weren't getting the rabble announce anymore - I wasn't implying that you should have seen it.

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No problem. And the expression of my confusion was directed at ohara.

[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: pogge ]

quote:

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The Jews who perpetrate these atrocities do not kill out of any perceived military threat to Israel; they kill because they are steeped in a toxic culture of Jewish supremacy and anti-Arab hatred. They torture and massacre Arabs, starve them, toy with them, punish them for their birth, and they do so voluntarily, even eagerly, with unsurpassable malice and cruelty.

Like the Nazis, these are men and women who, faithful to their credo of racial superiority, consider the slaughter to be just.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ohara:
And remind is right my information is second hand. Perhaps Derrick did not attend the event as told to me or walked away from Felton. I posted what I heard from a secondary source. If I am wrong I unhesitatingly apologize.

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quote:

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Originally posted by pogge:
Making this thread pretty much an exercise in irrelevance. It almost makes me think that getting the accusations about Felton out there was the real point.

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ohara's been on the same trolley tracks for a long time; there'll be a brick wall at some point.

That said: I'm not a fan of Ahmadinejad, and Felton's pretense that anything he has to say about the Holocaust is grounded in the search for truth is ridiculous, and politically naive.

As for this:

quote:

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The Jews who perpetrate these atrocities do not kill out of any perceived military threat to Israel; they kill because they are steeped in a toxic culture of Jewish supremacy and anti-Arab hatred. They torture and massacre Arabs, starve them, toy with them, punish them for their birth, and they do so voluntarily, even eagerly, with unsurpassable malice and cruelty.

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quote:

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Wilf Day
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3276
posted 25 November 2004 04:39 PM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Briguy:
I haven't read Felton's other 'contributions' because they don't interest me.
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I refuse to post a link to his own site, and in fact, I would want such a link deleted from Babble. However, you can find it by Googling "Greg Felton" and ignoring the actor and the Irish jazz musician. Lots about the "Jewish Lobby."

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quote:

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lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534
posted 25 November 2004 09:49 AM
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There are MANY points I find questionable in the article. To put it mildly, it is creepy. If I were posting it here, I'd make bloody sure there weren't overtly anti-semitic articles on the site.
Macabee, one can be favourably disposed to Israel and concerned about Palestinian human rights. If Mr Cotler is selective in his concern about human rights, that is a problem. I think it is important not to confuse "Israel" with the actions of the Sharon government. To wit:

"Cotler is well aware of his reputation as a pro-Israel advocate, and so in a Dec. 24, 2003, interview with the Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz he sought to defuse the issue:
“In Canada, each minister deals exclusively with the matters related to his or her own ministry. Consequently, only the foreign ministry deals with matters related to Israel…I will of course make my views known around the Cabinet table, but the moment the decision is made, or if a policy is determined, it is clear that all members of the cabinet are committed to it.” "

Sometimes one finds much more openness to criticism of Israeli government policy in Ha'aretz than among "pro-Israel" Canadians...

I don't want to pass judgement on the poster on the basis of one post, but please remember that linking to any anti-semitic, anti-Arab or other racist sites is contrary to rabble policy, and in some cases illegal.

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_________________________________________________
__

quote:

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[QUOTE] skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478
posted 25 November 2004 09:32 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, the problem with that article is the article itself, which isn't mainly about Cotler. It is an opinion piece, which in and of itself would be ok, except that it contains this line:

quote:
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It is public knowledge that zionists collaborated with the Nazis to exterminate Yiddisher Jews and prevent them from escaping persecution.
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To me, that is over the line, especially with no data at all put before us for general interpretation.

Cotler himself is a different issue. The point about any minister of the Crown is that he/she is a minister of the Crown and we aren't.

He sits at the Cabinet table. Canadians have every right to inquire into partisan positions he may have taken in the past.

Canadians have long had a particular position on Israel / Palestine. They have every right to interrogate anyone who might have the power to help to change that position, and that would include everyone who sits at the Cabinet table

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quote:

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Sorry. I missed it too. I was paying more attention to the content of the first post (especially the crap about Cotler's "personal views" that are supposedly more personal than those of the rest of us) than the thread title. And I didn't read the article in question either.
But I noticed that the link has Diva's thread title in it - is it possible she was using the title of the article as her thread title? I don't know since I haven't read the article and there's no way I'm clicking on some link that everyone's saying leads to an antisemitic site from work.

In any case, the thread title is changed.And Diva, could you do us all a big favour and try really hard not to link to antisemitic articles in the future? (my emphasis)

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Rabble on Felton

[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: ohara ]

quote:

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Originally posted by ohara:
Still waiting for that calvary!!

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Got a time machine?

[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Michelle:

Got a time machine?

[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Michelle:
Derrick should have known about a babble thread from 2004? Dude, Derrick's been the editor of rabble for less than a year! Hell, even the babble MODERATORS don't read every babble thread, or remember all the ones we have read!

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quote:

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Originally posted by ohara:
Doesnt seem that way...so in the immortal words of Reverend Johnston in "Blazing Saddles" you're on your own son

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Yes, the Son was alone in Calvary...

Sorry, I do this stuff all the time so it's not a malapropism flame. Just having a bit of fun with you.

I just read that old thread. Interesting. I didn't remember this guy's name at all. I haven't read Felton's stuff closely and don't really have time to do it now, so I'll have to comment on what I think of him later.

That said, whether the guy's writing is anti-semitic or not, I doubt Derrick was in charge of who this group asked to speak. And personally, I would consider it more important to speak against Islamophobia than to pull out because of other speakers at an event I didn't organize. I might, depending on who it was.

For instance, if I were the CJC, I might choose not to get involved with events by unapologetic racists like Daniel Pipes. But then again, if Daniel Pipes and I were speakers at an event organized by other people where we were discussing an issue where we happened to share the same point of view, then maybe I wouldn't pull out simply because he was asked to speak too.

I wouldn't, however, organize a press conference for a racist Islamophobe like Pipes. But hey, we all have our blind spots, right?

[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]

quote:

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Originally posted by ohara:
I happen to think he is a credible writer.

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Speaking of which, Felton is not one of the speakers advertised on any of the advertisements for the event. So if he did speak at it, there is certainly no way that rabble, or rabble's editor, has promoted this person.

Here's the event poster. No mention of Greg Felton.

Some right-wing cheerleader with a blog that I won't link to (no sense giving him higher google rankings - you can probably find him) reports that Felton was a "surprise guest". Perhaps a surprise to Derrick too? Who knows? Smears are so much more enlightening than just asking him. (For your information, ohara, Derrick's e-mail address is [email protected] if you and your organization are concerned about his conduct in future.)

I have no idea whether Felton is anti-semitic. Sounds like he might be, but then again, it might be more right-wing spin - certainly you and your gang have smeared people with lies in the past based on such flimsy sources as the racist CCD. I'll have to read him sometime and judge for myself.

But if he was a surprise guest and wasn't on any of the publicity for the event, then you can hardly blame Derrick for who the organizers allowed to speak.

I mean, as I said before, it's not like Derrick is putting out press releases for racists like Daniel Pipes on behalf of rabble. Now THAT I would have a HUGE problem with. No organization I'm affiliated with would knowingly do such a thing.

[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]

Secondly I have never been a fan of Pipes and have made my feelings clear on that. I feel the same way towards Elmasry. However as you have admonished me in the past it is best to stick to the topic at hand rather than try to twist it into something else.

Concentatring on Felton would it be adviseable in the view of others here that progressives not give him the time of day from here on in?

quote:

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Originally posted by ohara:
Concentatring on Felton ...

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[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Michelle:
Well, no, he has a point.

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When he switches back to Felton, I don't believe he does have a point except to play the guilt by association game all over again. He wants us all to line up and condemn Felton and if we don't, to use his phrase, that will tell him something about us. And if we do, I'm sure he'll be back at a later date with another example for another episode of ritual condemnation. I'm not playing.

quote:

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Originally posted by Cueball:

Then what is your problem with people engaging in discussion with him?

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And here's another reasonable question that sits well inside the theme of this thread's original post.

quote:

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Originally posted by ohara:
Guilt by association..give me a break!! Felton is vile. Here is another post from Glavin in which he shows how Felton feels Jews of today are all imposters...this by the way is the same argument used by the likes of Keegstra and his loons.

Glavin again
Any reasonable person would never make common cause with the likes of him. Still no explanation then?

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Since when is Glavin considered 'reasonable'?

[ 23 August 2008: Message edited by: jester ]