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Author Topic: Franken vs Coleman: turn on the laughing gas
adma
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posted 07 November 2008 07:48 PM      Profile for adma     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's been totally overshadowed by the Obama glow; but, wow. As if it weren't enough that Al Franken was the Democratic candidate, the current listed non-final pre-recount tally is: Norm Coleman 1,211,556 (41.99%) vs Al Franken 1,211,335 (41.98%). Totally wow.
From: toronto | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 07 November 2008 07:56 PM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That's even closer then it was yesterday.... and people are giving Franken flack for refusing to concede until all the votes are in as well as demanding a recount. I sure would in this case.

It will make a good story if in the end he actually wins and just add more to the story that would be Franken as a Rep.

Cracks me up just thinking about it.


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 07 November 2008 08:09 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Franken will win this. So far all that state election officials have been doing is double-checking the tally sheets to make sure they were added up right. And since election day, that's already shaved Coleman's margin from 700+ to just over 200.

The canvassing of the tally sheets will wrap up by the middle of next week. If that hasn't already put Franken ahead, the next step is a full manual recount of all the ballots. And now AP reports this:

AP: Most Minn. Senate "undervotes" are from Obama turf

quote:
ST. PAUL, Minn. (AP) ó An Associated Press analysis of votes in the tight, still-to-be decided race for a U.S. Senate seat in Minnesota shows that most ballots lacking a recorded choice in the election were cast in counties won by Democrat Barack Obama.

The finding could have implications for Republican Sen. Norm Coleman and Democrat Al Franken, who are headed for a recount separated by the thinnest of margins ó a couple of hundred votes, or about 0.01 percent.

About 25,000 ballots statewide carried votes for president but not for the Senate race. Although some voters might have intentionally bypassed the race, others might have mismarked their ballot, or optical scanning machines might have misread them.

A recount due to begin Nov. 19 will use manual inspection to detect such ballots.
***
Three counties ó Hennepin, Ramsey and St. Louis, which contain the population centers of Minneapolis, St. Paul and Duluth ó account for 10,540 votes in the dropoff between the presidential race and the Senate race. Each saw Obama win with 63 percent or more of the vote.

Larry Jacobs, a University of Minnesota political science professor, said the AP analysis of the dropoff between the two races creates a "zone of uncertainty" that could become a focal point for the campaigns and election officials ó and agreed the numbers favor Franken.

"These numbers present a roadmap for a Franken challenge," he said. "It suggests there are about 10,000 votes in the largest Democratic counties that are potentially going to tilt in Franken's direction."


In the end, I believe Franken will pull through. And in what a dramatic fashion! The right-wingers will be gnashing their teeth!

[ 07 November 2008: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 07 November 2008 08:14 PM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by robbie_dee:
In the end, I believe Franken will pull through. And in what a dramatic fashion! The right-wingers will be gnashing their teeth![/QB]

No kidding. They hate him, almost as much as they do Obama. I'm pretty sure that there's a few Dems in the house who feel the same way.
I can't see him suddenly, how shall I say it...toning it down.


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 07 November 2008 08:26 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Of course, if Franken does end up losing, he will be able to do one heck of a Stuart Smalley sketch if he ever appears on SNL again.
From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
adma
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posted 07 November 2008 08:28 PM      Profile for adma     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ElizaQ:
That's even closer then it was yesterday.... and people are giving Franken flack for refusing to concede until all the votes are in as well as demanding a recount. I sure would in this case.

Actually, I think the flack is more over his refusal to concede than his demanding of a recount--with this tight a margin, the recount is automatic unless the losing candidate wishes otherwise...


From: toronto | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 07 November 2008 08:53 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I believe at one point Coleman did specifically suggest that Franken waive his right to a recount, so as to allow Minnesota to "heal."

In any case, why would anyone "concede" if there was still going to be an automatic recount? The result wouldn't be certain yet?

[ 07 November 2008: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
wage zombie
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posted 07 November 2008 10:43 PM      Profile for wage zombie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Coleman was asking Franken to concede so that the state of Minnesota could save the $90,000 for the recount. I guess Coleman is a fiscal conservative, or something.
From: sunshine coast BC | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
BetterRed
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posted 07 November 2008 10:45 PM      Profile for BetterRed     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by robbie_dee:
I believe at one point Coleman did specifically suggest that Franken waive his right to a recount, so as to allow Minnesota to "heal."

In any case, why would anyone "concede" if there was still going to be an automatic recount? The result wouldn't be certain yet?

[ 07 November 2008: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]


Ha, he wants there to be 'healing'. Coming from a guy who basically shovelled turds on Sen. Wellstone's grave.

Looks like Franken would win.
In which case, can someone clarify his stance on Iraq and Afghanistan?


From: They change the course of history, everyday ppl like you and me | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 07 November 2008 10:51 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, if Coleman is so altruistically concerned about Minnesota "healing", then clearly the best thing for Coleman to do would be to graciously concede the election to Franken.

Then everyone can "heal". Aww! I have the warm fuzzies just thinking about all that healing!


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 08 November 2008 05:40 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:

In the end, I believe Franken will pull through



I agree, based on the nature of the undervotes. But we might not know for sure until a little before Christmas.


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 08 November 2008 05:52 AM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by BetterRed:

Ha, he wants there to be 'healing'. Coming from a guy who basically shovelled turds on Sen. Wellstone's grave.

Looks like Franken would win.
In which case, can someone clarify his stance on Iraq and Afghanistan?


From his campaign page:

quote:
After leading us into war under false pretenses, the Bush administration has dug us a deep hole in Iraq. The litany of mistakes is endless: the failure to send enough troops, the botched de-Baathification, the refusal to stop looting in the aftermath of the invasion, the firing of the Iraqi army (essentially telling hundreds of thousands of young Iraqi men, ďYouíre fired, get out of here, weíre not going to pay you, and take your weapons with you!Ē) Ė and especially the Republican Congressís refusal to do any oversight of the war.

Norm Coleman, as chairman of the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, didnít even hold a single hearing into contracting by Halliburton and other corporations Ė while waste, fraud, and the misappropriation of billions of dollars torpedoed the reconstruction of Iraq. Every dollar that didnít go towards getting up the electricity and the water, taking care of the sewage, and putting Iraqis to work alienated the population and fueled the insurgency, making a difficult mission impossible and sending the country into total chaos.

And today, Senator Coleman continues to vote against bringing our troops home.

Hereís where I stand:

I say itís time to leave Iraq. Our troops have served magnificently, but even General Petraeus has stated that military action alone cannot fix Iraq.

Itís been clear for years that this war was a mistake, and that mistake after mistake has been made in the conduct of it. And in my books, on my radio show, and all over this country, Iíve been speaking out for years about this sad, tragic mess. Now itís time for all of us to come to terms with the truth about the situation there.



From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
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posted 08 November 2008 06:15 AM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I can't find anything specific on Afghanistan except for this statement.
Statement re.Bush's Announcement

Found this article that gives a summary of his and his opponents positions on a number of issues.

[URL=http://www.startribune.com/politics/33661824.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O W3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUUsA]Election Issues: The Senate Rate[/URL]


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 08 November 2008 08:04 AM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
Well, if Coleman is so altruistically concerned about Minnesota "healing", then clearly the best thing for Coleman to do would be to graciously concede the election to Franken.

Then everyone can "heal". Aww! I have the warm fuzzies just thinking about all that healing!


What will be really interesting is if the canvassing of results, which has already cut the margin by 500 votes, eventually ends up putting Franken ahead even before the recount. Then Coleman's words could really come back on him - although I am sure by then he will change his tune. In the article I linked above, Coleman has already started questioning some of the totals that have come back from the (heavily democratic) Iron Range. Now that doesn't sound too "healing," does it?

[ 08 November 2008: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
adma
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posted 08 November 2008 02:06 PM      Profile for adma     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Have there been other cases where a losing candidate decided to not go ahead with an "automatic" recount? I think one of the 1999 Ontario races (Prince Edward-Hastings) might have seen that situation...
From: toronto | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
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posted 08 November 2008 10:20 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
32 more ballot boxes to be counted.

CNN: Franken sees boost in nail-biter election

quote:
In a move that could be seen as a benefit to Democrat Al Franken, a Minnesota judge Saturday denied a request from incumbent Republican Sen. Norm Coleman's campaign to block certain uncounted absentee ballots from being counted in a race separated byĖat latest tallyĖjust over 200 votes, in Coleman's favor. That margin has narrowed since the first tallies earlier in the week. Almost 3 million ballots were cast.

According to the court request, the Coleman campaign sought an "emergency temporary injunction" preventing election officials from unsealing, opening, or tallying any absentee ballots that were not inside an official ballot box by midnight election night. Specifically, the campaign was looking to block 32 uncounted ballots from the city of Minneapolis that, according to the campaign in the request, they were notified of late Friday night and that were to be counted the next day.

In a statement, Coleman recount attorney Fritz Knaak said the purpose of the request "was to secure those ballots until we could receive some kind of testimonial assurance, some proof, that they hadnít been tampered with, that they had been secured and that there will be no question in the mind of the electorate that there had been any wrong doing."

Ramsey County District Court Judge Kathleen Gearin turned down the request "for lack of jurisdiction."

Franken spokesman Andy Barr called it a "sneak attack" on the part of the opposing campaign, because he says his campaign did not find out about this motion until an hour before the court hearing on Saturday.

"They are, to us, pretty clearly trying to do whatever they can to cast doubt on this extremely routine process of canvassing and checking the tabulations and trying to freeze the votes where they were election night where coleman had a lead," Barr told CNN.

Minnesota law mandates a recount when election results are this close.



From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged

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