babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » current events   » international news and politics   » Beloved Haiti

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: Beloved Haiti
majorvictory
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2878

posted 16 February 2004 12:44 AM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A (Counter) Revolutionary Bicentennial

quote:
By STAN GOFF

February 9, 2004.

As I write this there is an attempt to start a civil war in Haiti, engineered in the United States of America and supported by its lapdogs in Caricom and the Organization of American States. Former Haitian military men who have received "some form" of training and logistical support while hiding out in the neighboring US semi-colony, the Dominican Republic, are systematically attacking the Haitian National Police at primary strategic points along the entire route from Port-au-Prince to the Dominican Border near Ouanaminthe. Only Cap Haitien has not fallen so far as St Marc, Gonaives, and Trou du Nord a town at a key bridge between the border and Cap Haitien has been ransacked by right-wing paramilitaries, who are the armed wing of a US-funded "opposition" that cloaks itself in the name Convergence Democratique, and now falsely claims no connection with this activity.

The main road between Port-au-Prince to St. Marc to Gonaives to Cap Haitien to Trou du Nord to Ouanaminthe is often the only passable route cross country, and these seizures have effectively cut off the western coastal towns from the capital and isolated Cap Haitien, the second largest city in Haiti. At last word, these former Haitian military units--some of the same ones who worked for the notorious Duvaliers and for the savage Cedras-Francois junta--have abandoned St. Marc.

The ridiculous names like Gonaives Resistance Front that these right-wing paramilitaries have assigned themselves are already being echoed in the capitalist press, which also refers to them, idiotically, as "rebels," and to their activities as the activities of "crowds." A contact I spoke with hours ago who returned from Port-au-Prince today told me that the real crowds are those who are fleeing these fascist coup operations in the North and the massive PRO-Aristide demonstrations in the capital. This contact said the situation here is very similar in many respects to the US-supported attempt to overthrow another democratically elected government, that of Hugo Chavez in Venezuela.



From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 490

posted 16 February 2004 01:14 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"LIers" Torn Apart Over Haiti

quote:
Tires doused with gasoline burned in the streets as opposition rebels took control of Haiti's fourth-largest city. Fears and hopes have swirled that President Jean-Bertrand Aristide will be ousted, maybe in a coup.

With political turmoil gripping the country for the past week, Long Island's growing Haitian community yesterday expressed sadness and fear over the events, and seemed divided over what should happen next in one of the Western Hemisphere's poorest nations.

Some say Aristide is a corrupt dictator who should step down. Others see him as a democratically elected beacon of hope for the impoverished masses who should be allowed to finish his term.


What I heard once is that the quid pro quo which Aristide was offered for American backing was that he accept the "Washington Consensus" method of government financing, which is to say, to throw Haitians to the multinationals in exchange for US troops thumping anyone who got in Aristide's way.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3308

posted 16 February 2004 04:02 AM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, he must have reneged, otherwise there would be American troops thumping these people who are getting in his way.
From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Agent 204
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4668

posted 16 February 2004 05:05 AM      Profile for Agent 204   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Either that, or the Americans have reneged.
From: home of the Guess Who | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Holy Holy Holy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3711

posted 17 February 2004 02:10 PM      Profile for Holy Holy Holy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Clinton believed in co-optation. Bush believes in the Iron Fist.

That's the difference.


From: Holy | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2878

posted 18 February 2004 12:35 AM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Anarchy spreads to central Haiti

[QUOTE] The rebels launched the rebellion from Gonaives, 110 kilometres northwest of Port-au-Prince, more than a week ago and since then the wave of violence has spread to more than a dozen towns. Both sides have suffered casualties.

On Sunday night, Aristide loyalists reportedly killed two anti-government supporters in the port town of St. Marc.

The rebels are thought to number less than Haiti's 5,000-member police force. But exiled paramilitary leaders and police have joined their forces, vowing to oust Aristide.

"They have joined us. We have created a national resistance," Winter Etienne, one of the rebel leaders in Gonaives, said today. "We're going to take a major part of Haiti."

Louis-Jodel Chamblain, a former Haitian soldier who led a paramilitary group known as the Front for the Advancement and Progress of Haiti, or FRAPH, which killed and maimed hundreds of people between 1991 and 1994, is among those helping the rebels.

Also helping is Guy Philippe, a former police chief who fled to the Dominican Republic after being accused by the Haitian government of fomenting a coup in 2002.

"We don't have any platform," said Philippe, 35, in an interview taped Saturday that was obtained by Associated Press Television News. "Our fight is for a better country. We are fighting for the presidency, we're fighting for the people."

In an attempt to keep police and government supporters out, the rebels have used shipping containers to block the highway leading into Gonaives. The blockades have halted most food, fuel and medical shipments to more than 250,000 people.

The unrest has also affected hospitals. In St. Marc, rebels torched a clinic. In Gonaives, a gun battle between police and rebels left three dead inside the hospital.

Hospital administrator Gabriel Honorat said the wounded are being cared for in their homes.

"We have no medicine. It is urgent," he said.

[ 20 February 2004: Message edited by: majorvictory ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
RookieActivist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4089

posted 18 February 2004 12:46 AM      Profile for RookieActivist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And none of what is happening in Haiti is in any way important unless it can be linked to current US politics. If the US intervened now there's no doubt this topic would be buzzing with conversation.
From: me to you | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
BugBear
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3379

posted 18 February 2004 01:17 AM      Profile for BugBear   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Check it out folks:

http://www.haiti-progres.com/eng02-11.html


From: 2nd London Tractor Factory | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3308

posted 18 February 2004 03:22 AM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, go Haitian people.
The article BugBear posted suggests they're defending their democracy and won't let it be taken away without a fight. It's inspiring to see the people of a country that's been through so much showing such determination.

It's looking clearer and clearer that this bullshit is American-backed. If they fail that'll be two failures in a row for American attempts to replace democracies with client dictatorships in the South America / Caribbean region. The momentum is shifting down there.
History may show that the Iraqi resistance gave Latin America the chance to get out from under the American boot.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3308

posted 18 February 2004 01:54 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
More on US involvement with the "opposition"
From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2878

posted 20 February 2004 01:05 AM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Rising Stakes In Haiti as Ex-Duvalier Thugs Take Over Opposition

quote:
Thu Feb 19, 9:38 AM ET Add World - OneWorld.net to My Yahoo!

Jim Lobe, OneWorld US

WASHINGTON, D.C. Feb 19 (OneWorld) -- The emergence of former paramilitary and military leaders accused of atrocities committed during Haiti's last period of military rule at the head of spreading rebellion against President Jean-Bertrand Aristide has added urgency to international efforts to deal with the ongoing crisis in the Caribbean nation.

The uprising, which has cut off hundreds of towns and villages in the north and central parts of the country from desperately needed relief supplies, is also fueling fears of a major exodus of poor Haitians by boat and across the border into the Dominican Republic, which has taken steps to close its border.

U.S. relief agencies, including CARE and Catholic Relief Services (CRS), have launched an emergency supply effort for cities and towns taken over by rebels, and in areas where barricades have been erected by contending forces.

"The situation is critical," said Dula James, CRS' Country Representative for Haiti. "Staff have been in contact with communities and partners in the north and report that rural villages lack food, household items, clothing and materials for shelter--a result of ongoing violence and looting."

The uprising began Feb 5 when a gang--called the Cannibal Army when it was allied with Aristide and later renamed the Artibonite Resistance Front (ARF)-- seized the police station in Gonaives, the country's fourth largest city, and subsequently burned and looted other government offices. Several days later, another anti-Aristide gang seized the nearby town of St. Marc, which has since been retaken by government forces.

Tension in Cap-Haitien, Haiti's second biggest city, has risen steadily since yet another rebel group--reportedly led by a former chief of the paramilitary Front for the Advancement and Progress of Haiti (FRAPH), Louis Jodel Chamblain-- seized the Central Plateau town of Hinche after killing the police chief and two of his officers several days ago. A total of more than 50 people have been killed to date.



From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2878

posted 20 February 2004 02:24 PM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Powell Says Open to Haiti's Aristide Quitting

quote:
Thu Feb 19, 1:29 PM ET Add World - Reuters to My Yahoo!

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States said on Thursday it was open to Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide stepping down, the first time it has publicly acknowledged his departure could be a way out of crisis.

Reluctant to quell a rebellion by sending police to the small Caribbean nation, but apparently ineffectual in mediating an end to the chaos, Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) said Aristide could go if his quitting was part of a political settlement among Haitians.

Previously, senior U.S. officials had only hinted that "major changes" in the government could break the impasse between an elected leader, who has vowed to stay until his term ends in 2006, and an increasingly violent opposition.

The United States has been criticized for failing to act while armed rebel gangs battle a hapless police force for control of some towns in the poorest nation in the Americas.

Asked if a U.S.-backed plan to hammer out a political settlement would include Aristide leaving office, Powell said: "That's not an element of the plan because under the constitution, he is the president for some time to come yet."

But he added in a radio interview with ABC, "You know, if an agreement is reached that moves that in another direction, that's fine."

The United States, which a decade ago restored Aristide to power after a coup, has warned the opposition against trying to oust the former Roman Catholic priest.

Washington has also been critical of Aristide, pressuring him to make good on pledges to mediators that include disarming violent gangs, and it has rejected the government's pleas for police help to staunch the violence.



From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2878

posted 21 February 2004 12:31 AM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Haiti rebels declare new state

quote:
Former soldiers form government in the north

Aristide buries police, tells forces they will triumph

AMY BRACKEN
REUTERS NEWS AGENCY

GONAÏVES, Haiti—An armed gang and former soldiers who seized control of a Haitian city declared themselves an independent country yesterday, then named a government and president.

As many as 20,000 people watched in the main square of the western city of Gonaïves, or from slum rooftops, as a former supporter turned embittered foe of Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide, Buter Métayer, arrived for a rally.

He jogged in like a boxing champion with his arms in the air.

Wearing a white suit and gold glasses, he led the swarming, cheering crowd in chanting, "Alone we are weak, together we are strong, together we are the resistance."

The rebels declared themselves the independent country of l'Artibonite, the name of the rice-growing region around Gonaïves.

They named a government with Métayer as president.

Guy Philippe, a former police chief of Cap-Haïtien, Haiti's second largest city, whom Aristide once accused of fomenting a coup, was named l'Artibonite's chief of the armed forces.

Philippe, who returned with former death squad leader Louis Jodel Chamblain last weekend from exile in neighbouring Dominican Republic, had up to 50 former soldiers with him, a Reuters Television cameraman said.Meanwhile, in his capital Port-au-Prince, the diminutive former parish priest, who led Haiti out of dictatorship into democracy who now faces accusations of political violence and corruption, made it clear he has no intention of stepping down as president.

"There is no doubt that I would be willing to die if that is what it takes to defend the country," Aristide told hundreds of police officers at a ceremony yesterday for more than a dozen dead police at the National Palace.



From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2878

posted 21 February 2004 09:29 PM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
U.S. 'Playing Games' With Haiti, Say Policy Critics

quote:
By Bill Alexander, BET.com Staff Writer

Posted February 20, 2004 -- As Americans are urged to leave a Haiti bordering on civil war, a cadre of diplomats from the United States and other countries will soon descend to engage President Jean-Bertrand Aristide in a game of push-and-pull, stay-and-go.

"The United States is playing games with Haiti," claims native-born Haitian Robert Fatton Jr., chairman of the Government and Foreign Affairs department at the University of Virginia.

"Politically connected groups within the country are openly funding Aristide's overthrow (he named the DC-based National Endowment for Democracy) while the Bush administration is saying publicly that Aristide should finish his elected term (which ends February 2006)," says Fatton.

Fatton says the Colin Powell State Department is engaged in a hot "ideological war" over Haiti. Congresswoman Maxine Waters (D-Calif.) shares Fatton's view and singles out Assistant Secretary of State Roger Noriega ("a Jesse Helms political appointee," she notes) as the architect of the "right-wing garbage" that Haiti is a pro-Communist influence in the Western Hemisphere.

"There are 500 Cuban doctors in Haiti," acknowledges Fatton, and relations between the neighboring countries are "quite good" because of mutual survival interests. But, says Fatton, the notion that Aristide is a "mad populist" about to lunge into communism is crazed.

"Bush wants Haiti to go away in this election year," adds Fatton. "His administration doesn't want troops sent for another nation-building effort and they don't want boat people seized on the high seas and jailed at Guantanamo. Clinton got away with it, but Bush can't."



From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4117

posted 22 February 2004 10:06 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What could the Americans hope to gain by toppling Aristide and imposing yet another American backed fascist dictatorship? The country is too poor to act as a staging ground for an invasion of Cuba and it doesn't have much in the way of exports. As far as I know Haiti doesn't have any oil. It doesn't have any forests left. What would be the point in supporting a puppet régime there? It doesn't make sense. Why did the United States support Duvalier in the first place?
From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2878

posted 23 February 2004 01:16 AM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Haiti Rebels Seize Second-Largest City

quote:
Haiti Rebels Seize Second-Largest City

Sunday February 22, 2004 8:31 PM

By PAISLEY DODDS

Associated Press Writer

CAP-HAITIEN, Haiti (AP) - Rebels captured Haiti's second-largest city, Cap-Haitien, after just a few hours of fighting Sunday, claiming their biggest prize in a two-week uprising that has driven government forces from most of the country's north.

Revelers shot celebratory rounds into the air and people looted and torched buildings. Some of the rebels boasted that their next target was the capital, Port-au-Prince, still under the control of police and militants loyal to President Jean-Bertrand Aristide.

``We came in today and we took Cap-Haitien; tomorrow we take Port-au-Prince,'' said Lucien Estime, 19. ``Our mission is to liberate Haiti.''

Rebels said their force of about 200 met little resistance except at the airport, where they said eight people were killed. It took just a few hours for the force to push from the southern outskirts of the city into the city center.

Thousands of people shouting ``Down with Aristide!'' marched with a convoy of about 40 rebels in eight commandeered cars.

``We're free!'' people shouted, ripping Aristide posters off walls.

Some looted the pro-Aristide Radio Africa station, and rebels shot up the building while a crowd clapped. One man, said to be an Aristide supporter, lay dead in the street from a bullet to the stomach. A second man, whose allegiance was not known, was shot in the head and killed.

Earlier, about 10 armed men stormed the police station and freed about 250 prisoners. The police fled, according to witness Odril Jean, 25, who lives next door. It was unclear whether the attackers were Aristide militants or the rebels, who have torched a score of police stations and freed prisoners since the uprising against Aristide began Feb. 5.



From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 23 February 2004 01:31 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
All of this is terribly upsetting - haven't weighed in on this before. Terribly upset, nothing to say. My Haïtian friends just listen to the radio, watch TV, check internet sites, call home, worry. I'll have to contact Michaelle Jean from Radio-Canada (she is a prominent journalist of Haitian origin - we studied together), but I've been busy and she's no doubt been busier.

Montréal has a huge Haitian community. No street demonstrations so far - just watching and waiting in anguish.
--------------------
Here's what Gary Younge of the Guardian has to say:
--------------------
As civil war encroaches, civil society implodes and civil political discourse evaporates, one of the few things all Haitians can agree on is their pride in Toussaint L'Ouverture, who lead the slave rebellion in Haiti that established the world's first black republic. "The transformation of slaves, trembling in hundreds before a single white man, into a people able to organise themselves and defeat the most powerful European nations of their day is one of the great epics of revolutionary struggle and achievement," wrote the late Trinidadian intellectual CLR James in his book The Black Jacobins. The transformation of that achievement into a nation riven by political violence, ravaged by Aids and devastated by poverty is a tragedy of epic proportions. (...)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1153894,00.html

[ 23 February 2004: Message edited by: lagatta ]


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3138

posted 23 February 2004 01:36 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
What could the Americans hope to gain by toppling Aristide and imposing yet another American backed fascist dictatorship? The country is too poor to act as a staging ground for an invasion of Cuba and it doesn't have much in the way of exports. As far as I know Haiti doesn't have any oil. It doesn't have any forests left. What would be the point in supporting a puppet régime there? It doesn't make sense. Why did the United States support Duvalier in the first place?

That's a good question. I know that its difficult for some people to accept, but there are real, live bad things that happen in the world that have nothing to do with US foreign policy. I think this is one of them. If the US really wanted so badly to be rid of Aristide, they would not have intervened to restore him to power when the rightwing military tried to overthrow him a few years ago.

I think that Aristides should be allowed to finish his term in office. He won an election fair and square. That being said, from what i read it doesn't sound like conditions in Haiti have improved one iota since he took power. The poor are, if anything, even worse off than during the dark days of Duvalier. I wish i knew what the solution was in that country but i don't. maybe the UN needs to invade and put the whole place under UN trusteeship. The Haitians themselves seem utterly incapable of running the country themselves.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
beluga2
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3838

posted 23 February 2004 04:19 AM      Profile for beluga2     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I know that its difficult for some people to accept, but there are real, live bad things that happen in the world that have nothing to do with US foreign policy.

Perhaps, but Haiti sure as hell isn't one of them. For God's sake, the country's been under total US domination in one form or another for 200 years.

And just a reminder: Aristide was restored to power by Clinton only on the condition that he completely abandon the program upon which he was elected, and instead implement a full-blown IMF-style "shock treatment" program, complete with "structural adjustment", opening up the borders and flooding the Haitian market with cheap, subsidized US agricultural products, etc., with the predictable disastrous effects. Aristide's role was that of a fig-leaf for the same old neoliberal BS, nothing more.

A Canadian parallel, I suppose, would be if the NDP were elected federally, overthrown by a military coup, and then restored to power by the US -- but only on the condition that the NDP implement the economic policies of the Fraser Institute.

Aristide has had many failings, to be sure, but I doubt even the saintliest leader could have freed Haiti from the shackles imposed on it by powerful outside forces over the last few years.


From: vancouvergrad, BCSSR | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4117

posted 23 February 2004 12:16 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
maybe the UN needs to invade and put the whole place under UN trusteeship. The Haitians themselves seem utterly incapable of running the country themselves.

Taking up the white man's burden are we...


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4117

posted 23 February 2004 12:31 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
And just a reminder: Aristide was restored to power by Clinton only on the condition that he completely abandon the program upon which he was elected, and instead implement a full-blown IMF-style "shock treatment" program, complete with "structural adjustment", opening up the borders and flooding the Haitian market with cheap, subsidized US agricultural products, etc., with the predictable disastrous effects.

So why is Bush anxious to put Aristide back in power? He has already proven himself to be an unwilling American puppet, why would he take the risk of supporting somebody that unpredictable. The last man to do that had his régime destroyed and wound up living in a hole.


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jingles
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3322

posted 23 February 2004 01:49 PM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
What could the Americans hope to gain by toppling Aristide and imposing yet another American backed fascist dictatorship?

What's that story, about the fox and the chicken? "It's my nature."

Americans just can't help themselves. It's in the fundamental racist nature of their mythos to intervene, since "The Haitians themselves seem utterly incapable of running the country themselves". Dark people of the world, from Natives to Iraqis to Haitians, just aren't civilized enough to function without a Great White Father to help them along. Nothing has changed since first Columbus stumbled onto it over 500 years ago, and immediately began to rape and destroy it.

Notice how no one in the US popular media would ever dare raise the question "Why are we involved with something that is NONE OF OUR GODDAMN BUSINESS?" That person would be greeted with either incredulousness, like asking why do people use toilets, or with outright rage, since you are questioning the very basic assumptions about What Makes America Great.


From: At the Delta of the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3308

posted 23 February 2004 03:32 PM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Near as I can make out, the American viewpoint with respect to everything in the Caribbean and Central and South America is, it's their back yard and they should own it.
Plus, they can't allow any country in the region to successfully run its own affairs in its own way, whether it's significant or not, or the others might start getting ideas. You know, the domino theory. Except with nationalism, which was always the real point anyway, instead of Communism. Why did they invade Grenada? It wasn't for the massive wealth from nutmeg sales.

Although that said, you have to remember--if you start with corporate assholes for whom a human death is just an externality, it doesn't matter how little you gain. Any crumb is enough for plunging a country into chaos, because the human cost is meaningless. It's not a cost. So where *we* might think "sheesh, they're hardly making any money--can it possibly be worth all the death and destruction?" -- Why, for them it's not even a question, or the question is meaningless. In corporate-speak, that translates to "Sheesh, they're hardly making any money--can it possibly be worth (no downside)?" Of course it's worth it to them--there's nothing for it to be worth.

And I agree that while there may well be places and times where the troubles are not largely US related, Haiti today and for a long time in the past is not one of them. The people talking about US involvement here are discussing facts. Sarcasm about obsessive activists is what you do *after* you refute their facts, if you can.


From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4117

posted 23 February 2004 04:01 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What kind of deal will the Americans strike with the current Haitian President once they save him? Will the Bush administration make the same sorts of demands that Clinton made? Or are these negotiations just a blind? Do the Americans know that the rebels will win?
From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2878

posted 23 February 2004 06:16 PM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Throttled by history

quote:
Gary Younge in Port-au-Prince
Monday February 23, 2004
The Guardian

As civil war encroaches, civil society implodes and civil political discourse evaporates, one of the few things all Haitians can agree on is their pride in Toussaint L'Ouverture, who lead the slave rebellion in Haiti that established the world's first black republic. "The transformation of slaves, trembling in hundreds before a single white man, into a people able to organise themselves and defeat the most powerful European nations of their day is one of the great epics of revolutionary struggle and achievement," wrote the late Trinidadian intellectual CLR James in his book The Black Jacobins. The transformation of that achievement into a nation riven by political violence, ravaged by Aids and devastated by poverty is a tragedy of epic proportions.

The nation's 200th anniversary this year looks back on 13 coups and 19 years of American occupation, and now once again looks forward to more bloodshed and instability. The country's political class must bear their share of responsibility for where they go from here. Western powers, particularly France and the United States, must also take responsibility for how they got to this parlous place to begin with. If Haiti shows all the trappings of a failed state, then you do not have to look too hard or too far to see who has failed it.

The most urgent issue is to stem the descent into gang warfare and political anarchy. In this the Haitians have been let down by poor domestic political leadership on all sides. In the nine years since Jean-Bertrand Aristide's Lavalas party has been in power, economic improvements have been few and human rights abuses have been many. With no army and only a few thousand poorly trained police, Aristide has relied on armed gangs to sustain his authority. In 2000, he rigged parliamentary elections in favour of his own party, sparking outrage and laying the basis for a broad-based opposition, which has gathered pace and strength in recent months.

But while the political opposition, based in Port-au-Prince, has grown in size it remains diminished in direction and devoid of strategy. With no agenda beyond forcing Aristide to resign, it offers only the possibility of even more chaos. With no desire to negotiate a settlement, it offers the certainty of stalemate. Its ability to destabilise, and inability to lead effectively and constructively, has left a vacuum now filled by an armed opposition, comprising henchmen from previous dictatorships. Up to their necks in blood and armed to the teeth, these men have poured across the border from the neighbouring Dominican Republic in the past week and are taking over towns and ransacking police stations. Yesterday there were reports that they had seized the country's second city, Cap Haïtien.

The relationship between those who seek to remove Aristide peacefully and those committed to violent methods is increasingly blurred. The political opposition says it shares the aims of the armed rebels but not their methods. Even if that is true in principle, it is rapidly becoming meaningless in practice. The rebels care little for human rights and less for human life. No one doubts they could get rid of Aristide; no one seriously believes they will restore democracy.



From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 23 February 2004 06:55 PM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Major, didn't you see that I had already cited that article?
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2878

posted 24 February 2004 06:28 PM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Marines Arrive in Haiti to Guard Embassy

quote:
By MICHAEL NORTON, Associated Press Writer

PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti - Fifty U.S. Marines streamed into the capital Monday to protect the U.S. Embassy and its staff, while government loyalists set flaming barricades to block the road from rebels threatening to move on Port-au-Prince.

The United States made last-ditch efforts at finding a political solution. As an opposition coalition was on the brink of rejecting a U.S.-backed peace plan on the grounds that it did not call for President Jean-Bertrand Aristide to step down, Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) phoned opposition politicians and asked them to delay responding formally to the plan for 24 hours.

Evans Paul, a leading opponent who once was allied with Aristide, said the coalition agreed the extra time "will perhaps give Mr. Powell a little more time to consider his position ... and give us the assurances we need" on Aristide's departure.

With rebels hoping to seize the capital by Sunday, Cabinet ministers were asking friends for places to hide, senior government sources said. The rebels seized Haiti's second-largest city, Cap-Haitien, with little resistance Sunday and attacked two police stations outside Port-au-Prince.

More than half of Haiti is now beyond the control of the central government. In Cap-Haitien on Monday, rebels hunted down militants loyal to Aristide, accusing them of terrorizing the population in the days before the fall of the northern port city of 500,000.

"I am a brick mason, I didn't do anything wrong," Jean-Bernard Prevalis, 33, pleaded as he was dragged away, head bleeding.

"We're going to clean the city of all 'chimeres,'" said rebel Dieusauver Magustin, 26. Chimere, which means ghost, is used to describe hardcore Aristide militants.

It was not clear what would happen to those detained. One rebel said they were saving them from lynching. But another, Claudy Philippe, said "The people show us the (chimere) houses. If they are there, we execute them."



From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2878

posted 25 February 2004 08:44 PM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Foreigners flee as looting breaks out in Port-au-Prince

quote:
By MARK STEVENSON
Associated Press
Posted February 25 2004, 5:37 PM EST

PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti -- Foreigners tried to flee Haiti on Wednesday, some guarded by U.S. Marines, as looting erupted in the capital and pressure mounted for international intervention in the 3-week-old uprising against President Jean-Bertrand Aristide.

Panic overtook the city, although there was no sign of the rebels who have overrun half of Haiti and are threatening Port-au-Prince.

A U.N. Security Council meeting on Haiti was scheduled for Thursday. President Bush said the United States is encouraging the international community to provide a strong ``security presence'' in Haiti as Washington and its allies work for a political solution.

Opposition leaders asked the international community to help ensure a ``timely and orderly'' departure of Aristide. And French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin urged the ``immediate'' dispatch of an international civilian force to restore order in its former colony.

``This force would be charged with assuring the restoration of public order and support actions in the field of the international community,'' de Villepin said in a statement that stopped short of calling for Aristide's resignation.


[ 26 February 2004: Message edited by: majorvictory ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2878

posted 26 February 2004 12:31 AM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Haiti's Lawyer: U.S. Is Arming Anti-Aristide Paramilitaries

quote:
As opponents of Haitian President Aristide reject a U.S.-brokered peace plan, we speak with Ira Kurzban who has served as General Counsel for the government of Haiti since 1991.

By Amy Goodman and Jeremy Scahill
Democracynow.org

The US lawyer representing the government of Haiti charged today that the US government is directly involved in a military coup attempt against the country's democratically elected President, Jean-Bertrand Aristide. Ira Kurzban, the Miami-based attorney who has served as General Counsel to the Haitian government since 1991, said that the paramilitaries fighting to overthrow Aristide are being backed by Washington.

"I believe that this is a group that is armed by, trained by, and employed by the intelligence services of the United States," Kurzban told the national radio and TV program Democracy Now!. "This is clearly a military operation, and it's a military coup."

"There's enough indications from our point of view, at least from my point of view, that the United States certainly knew what was coming about two weeks before this military operation started," Kurzban said. "The United States made contingency plans for Guantanamo."

If a direct US connection is proven, it will mark the second time in just over a decade that Washington has been involved in a coup in Haiti.

Several of the paramilitary leaders now rampaging Haiti are men who were at the forefront of the US-backed campaign of terror during the 1991-94 coup against Aristide. Among the paramilitary figures now leading the current insurrection is Louis Jodel Chamblain, the former number 2 man in the FRAPH paramilitary death squad.

Chamblain was convicted and sentenced in absentia to hard-labor for life in trials for the April 23, 1994 massacre in the pro-democracy region of Raboteau and the September 11, 1993 assassination of democracy-activist Antoine Izméry. Chamblain recently arrived in Gonaives with about 25 other commandos based in the Dominican Republic, where Chamblain has been living since 1994. They were well equipped with rifles, camouflage uniforms, and all-terrain vehicles.



From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Section 49
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3186

posted 26 February 2004 01:37 PM      Profile for Section 49     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Rebels converging on Port-Au-Prince

quote:
Port-Au-Prince, Haiti — Rebels who have overrun half of Haiti are converging on Haiti's capital Thursday and waiting for the order to attack Port-au-Prince, guerrilla leader Guy Philippe told The Associated Press.

He said their mission was to arrest President Jean-Bertrand Aristide if he did not resign, so Haiti's leader could be tried on charges ranging from corruption to murder.

“We've decided to go toward Port-au-Prince. They're on their way,” Mr. Philippe said in Cap-Haitien, Haiti's second-largest city in the north, which fell on Sunday. “They're taking their places. They know what to do.”



From: Toronto | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2878

posted 26 February 2004 11:11 PM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Haiti's terrorists got a free pass

quote:
GORDON BARTHOS

President Jean-Bertrand Aristide is on his knees begging the world to come to Haiti's aid before chaos and anarchy merge into massacre.

"Should those killers come to Port-au-Prince, thousands may be killed," he warned this week. "We need the presence of the international community as soon as possible."

In truth, Aristide should have had that help 10 days ago when a motley crew of 300 former death squad leaders, cashiered army officers and street thugs began terrorizing the country.

They could have been stopped. And should have been.

After all, U.S. President George Bush spared no rhetoric or energy rallying the world against the Al Qaeda killers who struck on 9/11. He defined the "war on terror" as a global moral crusade against the dark forces of anarchy. Spent $100 billion chasing Al Qaeda through Afghanistan and Iraq.

But Bush's moral indignation and crusading zeal were nowhere in evidence as Haiti fell prey to terror.

Until yesterday, when Bush belatedly mused about despatching an international "security presence," Aristide's foes had a free pass to wreak mayhem.

"There is, frankly, no enthusiasm right now for sending in military or police forces to put down the violence," Secretary of State Colin Powell said coldly, consigning Haiti to chaos.

And Prime Minister Paul Martin's new government hasn't done better. The few troops Canada was mobilizing yesterday, like the 50 Marines the U.S. despatched, will scarcely be able to secure our embassy, much less help thwart the putsch.

Aristide is undeniably a divisive, imperious figure who relies on violent gangs of supporters, having disbanded the coup-prone army. He has failed dismally to bring Haiti the peace and prosperity he promised.

But he also represents Haiti's democratic breakthrough, having been freely elected in 1990 and again in 2000. His term ends next year.

Aristide pleaded back on Feb. 16 for help against the "terrorists." Aid agencies warned of "civil war." Prime Minister Yvon Neptune saw a "coup d'état machine in motion."

Still, we abandoned them.



From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
prowsej
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 798

posted 27 February 2004 12:46 AM      Profile for prowsej   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This is one of the reasons why it is proper to consider the US when considering the plight of the Haitan people:
quote:
In the early 20th century, the United States was worried about French and German influences in Haiti and the security of the newly opened Panama Canal. In 1915, during World War I, the United States invaded Haiti to restore order in the country. U.S. Marines secured the countryside and proceeded to build the institutions needed to govern a modern nation. The United States collected tariffs, paid foreign debts, restructured the government and military, built roads and bridges, and trained local people for leadership roles. Although some Haitians resisted the U.S. occupation, most notably in 1920, the occupation was generally peaceful. The U.S. military occupation of Haiti was terminated on August 15, 1934. U.S. reforms did not last, however, and Haiti fell prey to dictators and disorganization. In the 1930s Haiti suffered through the worldwide depression.
- "Haiti." Microsoft® Encarta® Encyclopedia 2001. © 1993-2000 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

From: Ottawa ON | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2878

posted 28 February 2004 12:30 AM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Rebels Close in on Haitian Capital

quote:
By PAISLEY DODDS, Associated Press Writer

PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti - Rebels pushed to within 25 miles of the capital Friday as chaos spread with government loyalists torching barricades, hijacking cars and looting. President Jean-Bertrand Aristide said he wouldn't step down, even as United States urged him to cede power.

Pentagon (news - web sites) officials weighed the possibility of sending troops to waters off Haiti to guard against a possible refugee crisis and to protect the estimated 20,000 Americans there.

Aristide, under increasing pressure to step down from the United States and the rebels, told CNN that "I have the responsibility as an elected president to stay where I am."

A senior U.S. official said the Bush administration has concluded that the best way to prevent the insurgents from seizing control is for Aristide to transfer power to Supreme Court Chief Justice Boniface Alexandre, his constitutional successor. He is known in Haiti for his honesty.

"We urgently call upon President Aristide to issue the necessary instructions so his supporters stop this violence," the U.S. Embassy said Friday night, adding that "his honor, legacy and reputation are now at stake." The U.S. government urged all Americans still in Haiti to seek safe haven.

But anarchy continued its spread. Armed thugs hijacked cars at will. Looters hit the capital's seaport, stealing almost everything in sight and setting ablaze a freight terminal. Crowds jammed into the airport, only to find most flights canceled.

Hundreds of people looted Port-au-Prince's seaport, scurrying out with boxes of melting chicken parts and pork loins strapped to their backs. Others streamed out with television sets, table lamps, furniture and other goods.

Smoke wafted from the smoldering ruins of a torched freight terminal. No police were in sight. The body of a dead man lay on the ground amid a layer of papers and other trash; it was unclear how he was killed.

The bodies of two executed men also lay a few blocks from the presidential National Palace.



From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2878

posted 28 February 2004 10:00 AM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
U.S. Haitian Immigration Policy Condemned

quote:
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 8:17 p.m. ET

MIAMI (AP) -- Haitian-Americans and immigrant advocates criticized the Bush administration Friday for sending more than 500 Haitian migrants back to face a violent uprising in their homeland.

The Coast Guard returned 531 people, including infants, near the capital of Port-Au-Prince on Friday. That was the number of Haitians who had been intercepted at sea near their nation's coast since Feb. 21.

``It is our intention, upon rescuing Haitian migrants from peril at sea aboard grossly overloaded and unseaworthy vessels, to immediately repatriate them in a safe and secure manner,'' said Rear Adm. Harvey E. Johnson Jr., commander of the Seventh Coast Guard District.

Haitian-American groups and immigrant advocates wanted the government to consider the rebellion in Haiti that has left about 80 people dead.

``Given the current political crisis in Haiti, we could be returning people to their death,'' said Cheryl Little, executive director of the Florida Immigrant Advocacy Center. ``It is unconscionable that the world's greatest democracy is not doing more to welcome refugees from a tiny neighbor that is teetering on the edge of political chaos.''

The Rev. Jonas Georges, a Haitian-American activist, said the decision showed a ``lack of consideration for human suffering.''

``One would think that the American government would at least give these people a chance to sort of catch their breath until things calm down,'' he said. ``But taking them back home, I think, is outrageous.''

President Bush has repeated the government's policy to turn back any Haitian migrant trying to reach U.S. shores



From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534

posted 28 February 2004 10:16 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh come now, major, you know those boat people are the wrong colour.

Here is a really scary story from a Montreal journalist currently in Haiti. Sue Montgomery's vehicle swarmed by chimères. Yes, of course the people there face terror like that every day.

There will be a demonstration here in Montréal at 1 pm today. at complexe Guy-Favreau. The large Haitian community here isn't really supporting any side - they are mostly dismayed and perplexed - mostly expresing concern for what is going on in their homeland.


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2878

posted 28 February 2004 10:57 PM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Haiti: Recycled Soldiers and Paramilitaries on the March

quote:
Rebel forces are advancing on Haiti’s capital Port-au-Prince, sparking fears of widespread bloodshed. Among the leaders of the insurgency are such notorious figures as Louis Jodel Chamblain, a former paramilitary responsible for countless atrocities under the military government that ruled Haiti from 1991 to 1994. The reemergence of such violent and lawless men is a worrying portent for Haiti’s future.

The past three weeks of fighting between police and rebel forces, and pro- and anti-government bands, have left an estimated eighty people dead. The insurgents first seized control of Haiti’s northern region, then moved on to the Central Plateau, and are now poised to attack the capital. Some towns where government forces have been defeated have witnessed revenge attacks, known in Haiti as dechoukage, against persons, government installations, and the homes of government supporters. In Port-au-Prince, where the government of President Jean-Bertrand Aristide remains in control, pro-government gangs known as chimères have violently attacked journalists and members of the civilian opposition.

The armed groups that have joined forces to oust President Aristide include disparate elements. With a solid core of former officers and soldiers of Haiti’s disbanded army, the rebels also comprise gangs that supported the government but that have now turned against it. Guy Philippe, a former police commissioner with a dubious human rights record, claims the leadership of these forces, together with his ally Chamblain. But there are strained alliances in the insurgent ranks. In Gonaïves, the northern port city whose takeover precipitated the crisis, local gang leader Butteur Métayer shares power with former paramilitary Jean Pierre Baptiste (alias Jean Tatoune), a man who once led a massacre targeting Métayer’s family. The unlikely nature of such partnerships suggests possible power struggles to come.

The Haitian government is institutionally weak and badly defended. With a small and demoralized police force plagued by desertions, the government has largely put its defense in the hands of armed civilian supporters, many of whom are criminals known for violence and abuses. On February 26, as an attack on Port-au-Prince seemed imminent, hundreds of these supporters began building defensive positions in front of the National Palace. Others manned intermittent road-blocks around the capital, stopping cars and, in some instances, robbing motorists.

In this situation of impending turmoil, basic human rights concerns are paramount. Given the poor record of the main players in Haiti, and the worrying potential for future abuses, Human Rights Watch is gravely concerned for the protection of the civilian population.



From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Rufus Polson
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3308

posted 29 February 2004 03:25 AM      Profile for Rufus Polson     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Swarmed by chimeres? You mean, beasts with three heads, one of a serpent/dragon, one of a lion, and one of a goat?
From: Caithnard College | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2878

posted 29 February 2004 11:03 AM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Aristide Resigns As Leader, Flees Haiti

quote:
By PAISLEY DODDS and IAN JAMES, Associated Press Writers

PORT-AU-PRINCE, Haiti - President Jean-Bertrand Aristide resigned and fled the country Sunday, bowing to pressure from a bloody rebellion at home and governments abroad. Gunfire rang out through the capital and black smoke billowed from the city center.

A jet carrying Aristide landed in Antigua for refueling and heads to South Africa, local radio stations report.

Aristide's prime minister, Yvon Neptune, said at a press conference that the ex-leader resigned to "prevent bloodshed."



From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Polunatic
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3278

posted 29 February 2004 11:41 AM      Profile for Polunatic   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The return of the thugs - Saul Landau

quote:
Aristide's most prominent enemies and flagrant human rights abusers -- fled to the United States or the Dominican Republic. But they had stashed weapons on the island and waited for the opportune moment. Human rights violators like Col. Emanual Constant, a former CIA agent, walked confidently through the streets of Queens, New York. Some former army and Tonton Macoute officials have returned and "joined" the "opposition"

Snip....

Although such hooligans more than cloud the political "opposition's" legitimacy, large numbers of Haitians do feel disappointed with Aristide. The three year wait before Aristide resumed his legitimate place as president, seemed to have changed him and the inchoate, populist Lavalas Party he leads. By 1994, following the Pope's order, he had shed his collar. The secular Aristide no longer showed the same assurance. The exile years had taken their toll.


Some more useful history and context (pre-Aristedes resignation)

From: middle of nowhere | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
majorvictory
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2878

posted 29 February 2004 06:08 PM      Profile for majorvictory     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
U.S. Marines to Go to Haiti to Keep Order

quote:

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The State Department announced on Sunday that U.S. Marines were being sent to Haiti to help keep order in the chaotic Caribbean nation and said other countries also will join an international force.
"The United States will deploy a contingent of U.S. Marines as the initial contingent of a multilateral interim force," the State Department said in a statement posted on its Web site.

"We have been informed that several other countries are prepared to move quickly to join this mission," it said, without specifying when the U.S. Marines will land in Haiti nor what other countries will join in the peacekeeping mission.



From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca