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Author Topic: WNBA's Swoopes comes out
Hephaestion
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posted 27 October 2005 02:06 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
(New York City) Houston Comets forward Sheryl Swoopes is opening up about being a lesbian, telling a magazine that she's "tired of having to hide my feelings about the person I care about."

Swoopes, honored last month as the WNBA's Most Valuable Player, told ESPN The Magazine for a story on newsstands Wednesday that she didn't always know she was gay and fears that coming out could jeopardize her status as a role model.

"Do I think I was born this way? No," Swoopes said. "And that's probably confusing to some, because I know a lot of people believe that you are."

Swoopes, who was married and has an 8-year-old son, said her 1999 divorce "wasn't because I'm gay."

She said her reason for coming out now is merely because she wants to be honest.

"It's not something that I want to throw in people's faces. I'm just at a point in my life where I'm tired of having to pretend to be somebody I'm not," the 34-year-old Swoopes said. "I'm tired of having to hide my feelings about the person I care about. About the person I love."

[...]

She said it "irritates" her that no one talks about gays playing in men's sports, but that it's become an issue in the WNBA.

"Sexuality and gender don't change anyone's performance on the court," she said. "Women play just as hard as guys do. We're just as competitive."


Ummm..... yay, Swoopes? I don't agree with her statement that she wasn't born a lesbian -- that simply feeds the stereotype that women can "turn gay" by... oh, I dunno.... playing professional sports, maybe? Not to mention legitimizing the belief that queerness can be "reversed" by scumbags like these "ex-gay" whack-os... But still, kudos to her for being brave enough to be public and honest while her career is still ongoing. That's more -- MUCH more -- than most gay and lesbian professional athletes are willing to do. As well, her scorn for the double standard between discussing gay vs lesbian athletes in professional sport is appropriate and deserves to be underscored.

However, elsewhere in the story, it says, "[Swoopes] said her biggest worry about her revelation is that people will be afraid to look up to her." Maybe someone should point out to her that her statement could lead to a bunch of kids looking up to her who really need positive role models -- like gay and lesbian youth....

[ 27 October 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jimmy Brogan
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posted 27 October 2005 05:23 PM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Let's cut her some slack. She's just now out, breathing the fresh uncloseted air for the first time. If she's like most gay people who take that first tentative step out of the closet a long period of personal and political growth will ensue.

Good for her and welcome to the wide open spaces.

[ 27 October 2005: Message edited by: JimmyBrogan ]


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Reality. Bites.
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posted 27 October 2005 05:33 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by JimmyBrogan:
Let's cut her some slack. She's just now out, breathing the fresh uncloseted air for the first time.

That's not necessarily true. Celebrity coming out is not the same thing as private citizen coming out.

Take someone like Svend Robinson or Rick Mercer in their so-called closeted days. Everyone who knew them, their friends, families and co-workers already knew they were gay. The only difference is, Meg in Moose Jaw, who only knew them from TV, didn't.

By the normal, non-celebrity definition of being out, Swoopes may have been out for years.


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Hinterland
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posted 27 October 2005 05:36 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Slight drift...I only found out this week that Sarah Gilbert, who played Darlene on Roseanne is an out lesbian (..with partner and child).
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Hephaestion
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posted 27 October 2005 05:37 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I agree, Jimmy, and I'm *more* than willing to cut her some slack. As I noted, she's been a lot braver than most other LGBT professional athletes in the past. I just hope someone from "the community" will be there for her, point her in the right direction and and give her some good advice.

Good luck and more power to her!

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spatrioter
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posted 27 October 2005 05:55 PM      Profile for spatrioter     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So what if she feels she wasn't born a lesbian? That may not be your experience, but she is entitled to describe her own sexuality and her experience.

I think many gay folk insist that sexuality is static as a justification for their rights ("I shouldn't be discriminated against for something I can't change"). But shouldn't we be entitled to rights, regardless of whether we are born gay, turn gay, or choose to be gay?


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arborman
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posted 27 October 2005 05:57 PM      Profile for arborman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I really look forward to the day when this won't merit a headline. The fact that people still feel obliged to hide who they are for any time at all is just sad. The fact that someone in the public eye coming out merits any more than a yawn tells me that we have a long way to go.
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Hephaestion
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posted 27 October 2005 06:10 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Spats--

I said I disagreed with her, not that I was gonna send her e-mails berating her...

Sure, she's entitled to describe her own experiences however she likes; I am just pointing out how what she says will be seized upon by people who will seek to use her words for their own twisted ends.

Speaking personally, though, I've never met *anyone* who "turned gay" or "chose to be gay" -- not saying it's impossible (I guess), but I've never met one. I *do* know many, many who tried desperately to "be straight", though. Didn't work. Not in a single, solitary case that I am aware of. Even a dirtbag like the guy running that "Love in Action" stalag admits that he "still has homoerotic dreams". All I'm saying is that even with all the incentives to "be straight", I'm not aware of anyone managing to do it successfully, so what would make anyone think that "turning gay" would be any more successful?

That being said, I am *happy* being gay, now, and given a choice (if such were possible) I wouldn't *dream* of switching teams. (Maybe I should get a column and rip off Xavier Hollandier, and call myself "The Happy Homo"... )

[ 27 October 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


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shaolin
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posted 27 October 2005 06:28 PM      Profile for shaolin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Speaking personally, though, I've never met *anyone* who "turned gay" or "chose to be gay" -- not saying it's impossible (I guess), but I've never met one. I *do* know many, many who tried desperately to "be straight", though. Didn't work. Not in a single, solitary case that I am aware of. Even a dirtbag like the guy running that "Love in Action" stalag admits that he "still has homoerotic dreams". All I'm saying is that even with all the incentives to "be straight", I'm not aware of anyone managing to do it successfully, so what would make anyone think that "turning gay" would be any more successful?

Yeah, I'm not going to try and speak for her either, but it sounds like maybe she's somewhere in between 100% certified homo and grade-A top quality hetero - I can't imagine there's too much room in the mainstream US press to come out as a woman who loves a woman, but has loved a man, and didn't necessarily always feel this way the way she currently does. You're right Heph - her choice of words gives gay bashers something to latch onto, which is unfortunate. But I can certainly understand why a celebrity coming out to the American media wouldn't want to get into the nitty-gritty of the evolution of their sexual identity.


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kropotkin1951
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posted 27 October 2005 06:33 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Could it be that there are people who are bi-sexual and therefore don't feel they were born either gay or straight? If you are bi-sexual and in a relationship I don't think that diminishes your nature as a bi-sexual person but merely means you have found another human to share intimacy with for an extended period.
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kuri
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posted 27 October 2005 06:36 PM      Profile for kuri   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
On the surface, the coming-out announcements of LPGA golfer Rosie Jones and WNBA superstar Sheryl Swoopes might seem like two separate events.

Think again.

Each of their high-profile declarations of their gay lifestyle has been accompanied by the news that they are now endorsers of a lesbian travel service called Olivia.


ESPN She may have already made plans to ensure she has endorsement income. Smart thinking. But this supports the idea raise above that she was likely "privately out" before coming "publically out".

[ 27 October 2005: Message edited by: kurichina ]


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Hephaestion
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posted 27 October 2005 06:47 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
kropotkin1951--

She might very well be bisexual, as you suggest. But if so, then she's not really "gay" (or "lesbian", if you prefer to differentiate further), is she?

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kropotkin1951
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posted 27 October 2005 07:07 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have always believed (no science attached merely opinion) that human sexuality like many things is a continuum not an either or proposition. I know people who have been in long term relationships with both men and women at various times in their lives and neither situation was a lie. I have no idea where on the spectrum this professional athlete is but I admire her courage to speak out in America. That takes a significant amount of courage. I would hope that soon we will have more gay atheletes in sports like football and hockey coming out. I think in the long run openness about sexuality is the best protection against gay bashing. It's all normal human behaviour and maybe someday it will be a non-issue.
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Hephaestion
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posted 27 October 2005 07:19 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
No arguments, K-1951... But if she's sleeping with both sexes, then she's not "gay", she's bisexual. Nothing wrong with that at *all* -- I'm just arguing in favour of using the correct terminology. And, like you, I salute her courage.
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shaolin
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posted 27 October 2005 07:58 PM      Profile for shaolin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Actually, I don't really think sleeping or being attracted to both sexes automatically makes you bisexual - maybe according to Websters, but that's certainly not my identity. Unless I'm filling out an online form, I would never identify as bisexual and even then I'd be be more apt to pick gay. Usually for me it's queer, and at some points I have identified as lesbian.

I know what you're saying Heph, I just think it could be more complicated than that - she may be solely attracted to women now and therefore identify as lesbian, but recognize she didn't always feel that way (and wasn't just hiding in the closet) and so she also doesn't recognize she was 'born' a lesbian.

Or, she could just be in it for the endorsement munee!!


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Hephaestion
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posted 27 October 2005 08:12 PM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
shaolin--

Okay, but in that case, I wish she'd used the term "queer". Although, that *still* wouldn't prevent the Pat Robertson types (and Lifesite and FD freaks) from twisting her words to their own ends, granted. I just wish if she was going to say that sort of ambiguous thing, it'd been to someone like The Advocate, who might possibly have gotten a more nuanced response from her. (Not that I'm trying to "muzzle" her, or anything. I'm just saying...)

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shaolin
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posted 27 October 2005 08:39 PM      Profile for shaolin     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I agree, you'll get no argument from me on that. I guess I just understand how difficult it can be to try and explain your sexuality to people who don't have a clue about anything but vanilla-hetero relationships. I don't mean that negatively - it's just that so many people seem to have this deep felt need to fit you neatly into a box, and if you won't fit, they get weird: homo, hetero, bi - just tell me which one it is! While I've got no clue if that's Swoopes situation, I'm sympathetic to anyone who might find themselves there.
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babblerwannabe
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posted 27 October 2005 09:38 PM      Profile for babblerwannabe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Theres nothing wrong with somone saying that he or she or xe is not born gay. I think social factors could play an influence in one's sexual orientation. Shes entitled to her belief.
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Hephaestion
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posted 02 November 2005 08:36 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Meanwhile, the Boston Celtics actually brag about their homophobia...

quote:
With WNBA star Sheryl Swoopes coming out, everybody's talking, including the NBA. What if a male basketball player came out? Boston Celtics captain Paul Pierce says, "I probably wouldn't want to guard him," seemingly only half joking. "It would be tough out in public, too. Our faces are seen more than baseball, where they have a hat, or football with helmets." So he should hide his face in public?

Celtics coach Doc Rivers says, "The jabs wouldn't stop. And the guy would have to take it. He'd have to understand that it wasn't personal. ... for a day no one would say anything, but then right after that they would kill him. And it would be in a team way."

Equally scary views from Celtics Hall of famer Robert Parish who says he would fear for a gay player - "Nothing's taboo in a pro locker room, except family members. Everything else is free game. ... A player like that could even suffer some bodily harm if he wasn't careful." Greg Stoda wants to know why they'd punish a gay teammate, while others say the world is ready. All I can say is when an NBA player comes out, let's hope he's not a Boston Celtic. Let's hope they're not representing the same feeling throughout the sport nationwide.


"He'd have to understand that it wasn't personal"... Yeah, right. It's just that we hate all fags, 'n everything...

[ 02 November 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


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Crippled_Newsie
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posted 02 November 2005 09:18 AM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Hephaestion:
All I can say is when an NBA player comes out, let's hope he's not a Boston Celtic.

Oh, I hope he is a Celtic... and that he's built like Shaquille O'Neal: 7 & 1/2 feet tall and 325 pounds.

Go ahead... thrown an elbow... I dare ya.

[ 02 November 2005: Message edited by: Tape_342 ]


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jcappy
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posted 02 November 2005 12:16 PM      Profile for jcappy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Tracy McGready said, in an 2003 interview, that 5% of the NBA was gay. He seemed to be basing this on knowledge of his own team-mates and from talk around the league.

Interesting, that no NBA player, to my knowledge, has ever come out because both the NFL and MLB have had a few players openly do so--both after and during their careers.

As to Boston, I do think a Celtic might survive coming out--the fan base and Paul Pierce may not be pc but he's not really the homophobic type.


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Crippled_Newsie
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posted 02 November 2005 06:17 PM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by jcappy:
Interesting, that no NBA player, to my knowledge, has ever come out because both the NFL and MLB have had a few players openly do so--both after and during their careers.

Oh? Like who? I missed that.


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jeff house
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posted 02 November 2005 08:24 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Three NFL players have come out: Dave Kopay, Esera Tuaolo, and Roy Simmons.

Tuaolo is 6'3" and 300 pounds. He's the latest to come out.

http://www.outsports.com/nfl/20021027eseramain.htm


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Jimmy Brogan
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posted 02 November 2005 10:05 PM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The only gay MLB player I know of was the unfortunate Glenn Burke, inventor of the high-five.
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Vigilante
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posted 03 November 2005 01:23 AM      Profile for Vigilante        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Billy Bean is another.
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Jimmy Brogan
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posted 03 November 2005 01:49 AM      Profile for Jimmy Brogan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Billy Bean is another.

Yeah I saw his name mentioned in the Glenn Burke story but I'd never heard of him. With the Jays and the Dodgers both perennial non-contenders lately, I don't follow pro ball like I used to.

[ 03 November 2005: Message edited by: JimmyBrogan ]


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Ken Burch
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posted 03 November 2005 04:57 AM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I wonder if Cheryl Swopes apparent belief that she wasn't "born gay" is a way for her to feel that she has some sort of personal control over the matter, if, perhaps, it is somehow more comforting for her to think of her sexual orientation that she could give up "if she really wanted to"?

If that is the case, perhaps she will eventually let that idea go as she becomes more and more comfortable with her sexuality and herself.

I agree that it is dangerous and risky to give the "religious" right aid and comfort by saying such things, and I hope that Ms. Swopes will at some point also speak out against "exit ministries" and other attempts to "degay" people.


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Hephaestion
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posted 03 November 2005 05:13 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I thought an "exit ministry" was the kind of thing that was run by Jim Jones...
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Ken Burch
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posted 03 November 2005 05:16 AM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
(rim shot!)(cymbal crash!)
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Yst
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posted 03 November 2005 07:24 AM      Profile for Yst     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
She is presumably not exclusively gay, seeing as she asserts that her earlier divorce was not the result of homosexual identity. I'll take her word for it over the words of others who would like to define her sexuality for her.

I have to say, it's kind of troubling the way many people are so determined to refuse others the right to determine and describe their sexual identities, or to impose their own definitions where, in this case for example, she has given a perfectly reasonable one of her own. I start to understand why those black men who identify as 'same-gender loving' find themselves frustrated by the gay mainstream when I read sexual categories being so vigorously enforced to fit a binary formula. I'm damn sick of men who seem to think the variously queer identities of others are some sort of imposition on their right to declare everyone on earth either definitely gay or definitely straight. This just in: the Kinsey Scale. Coming soon to a decade over half a century into our past. Get used to it.

She's coming out as loving another woman. Of course, the media (and I think this is fairly universal from the right end of the spectrum to the left) wants this to be 'coming out as a lesbian' because it makes for a better headline. But I think I'll take her word for it, and instead of putting words in her mouth by saying she's coming out as a lesbian, just accept that she's coming out as loving another woman.


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Hephaestion
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posted 03 November 2005 07:54 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
(QD) Outsports has an interview with Sheryl Swoopes, the WNBA basketball star who recently came out. They asked her, "Why has it been worth it?" Swoopes explained, "Because I feel very free. I'm sitting outside doing thisinterview. I'm looking up into the sky. I'm watching birds fly. And that's what I feel like right now. I feel like a beautiful black bird that's just soaring across the sky. Just very free. Very happy. And the fact of me not having to lie anymore is so refreshing and so relaxing.

She continued, "The African-American community is not as open to the issue as a lot of other races are. And I think that goes back to our childhood and the way we were brought up and what our beliefs were. Not to say that other people didn't have those things, but it was just different for us. Going through slavery, we've always had struggles and battles and things we've had to overcome. And the way we overcame those things were family and falling back on the Bible. That's why I think it's really hard for the African-American community to accept it. And I know I'm going to have some battles, not only in the African-American community but also the world. But, the possibility of me opening up doors, not just for African-American men and women, but for all people, is a great feeling to me. When I did it, I didn't think about what this would possibly mean in the African-American community, I just thought about Sheryl and me being able to be happy." Read the full interview.

[ 03 November 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]


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jcappy
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posted 03 November 2005 12:00 PM      Profile for jcappy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This is subjective, but i have always thought that women's sexual identity was more open and dependent on acutal persons they meet, and love--rather than on straight and gay.

[ 03 November 2005: Message edited by: jcappy ]


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Hephaestion
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posted 17 November 2005 08:27 AM      Profile for Hephaestion   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Columnist Tim Dahlberg:

quote:
It really shouldn't matter by now, but apparently it still does. For two very different reasons it matters greatly to Sheryl Swoopes and Laila Ali. And, even though we live in politically correct times, it seems to matter to a lot of America's sports fans, too.

[...]

"There is this fascination with the sexuality of women athletes," said Todd Crosset, an associate professor of sports management at the University of Massachusetts. "If a woman is really good at her sport, people will question her sexuality."

That fascination has been fueled in recent weeks, most notably by Swoopes when she came out of the closet and announced not only that she was a lesbian but also that she was involved with one of her now former coaches.

[...]

Ali had an announcement to make last week, too. She announced that she wasn't a lesbian, debunking Internet rumours to the contrary.

[...]

There's a big difference, though, between the sexes when it comes to same sex attraction.

Any male athlete who came out - and so far no current player in a major sport ever has - would likely be ostracized by teammates and mocked by fans.

NBA commissioner David Stern recently said a gay player would be a non-issue because his teammates would simply judge him on his production. That was the PC thing to say, but the real answer came later from Celtics coach Doc Rivers.

"They would kill him," Rivers told the Boston Herald.

On the other hand there are already women like Swoopes and golfer Rosie Jones who not only feel liberated by declaring their sexual preference, but are profiting from it. Both have endorsement deals with a cruise line that caters to lesbians.

"It says volumes that Swoopes came out and she came out with a sponsor," Crosset said. "Why not use your body to sell products?"

[...]

"There used to be such a stigma about lesbians in sports that you really have to give credit to the lesbian community for keeping women's sports, particularly collegiate sports, alive in this country," said Crosset, who wrote a book on the LPGA Tour.

The stigma, though, is still there. A former Penn State player recently claimed that she was tossed from the team because the coach mistakenly thought she was a lesbian. She, like many female athletes, must defend their sexuality on a continuing basis.

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idontandwontevergolf
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posted 17 November 2005 11:20 AM      Profile for idontandwontevergolf     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
From YST:

quote:
She is presumably not exclusively gay, seeing as she asserts that her earlier divorce was not the result of homosexual identity. I'll take her word for it over the words of others who would like to define her sexuality for her.
I have to say, it's kind of troubling the way many people are so determined to refuse others the right to determine and describe their sexual identities, or to impose their own definitions where, in this case for example, she has given a perfectly reasonable one of her own. I start to understand why those black men who identify as 'same-gender loving' find themselves frustrated by the gay mainstream when I read sexual categories being so vigorously enforced to fit a binary formula. I'm damn sick of men who seem to think the variously queer identities of others are some sort of imposition on their right to declare everyone on earth either definitely gay or definitely straight. This just in: the Kinsey Scale. Coming soon to a decade over half a century into our past. Get used to it.

She's coming out as loving another woman. Of course, the media (and I think this is fairly universal from the right end of the spectrum to the left) wants this to be 'coming out as a lesbian' because it makes for a better headline. But I think I'll take her word for it, and instead of putting words in her mouth by saying she's coming out as a lesbian, just accept that she's coming out as loving another woman.


Exactly what I was thinking.

It seems as though some poster's are concerned that Ms. Swopes (Swoopes?) does not meet the "correct" definition of lesbian. To me, this sounds just as bad (well, not really) as those who would say gays etc can be straightened. It's all very political and not what Ms. Swopes is saying is personal. Does every LGBT person have to identify with the terminology deemed to be "politically correct" by whichever community? Is there a manual?

As for how male, professional teams would handle it...I'm sure I read in the Star quotes from a Maple Leaf head office guy that a player coming out would be supported by the team and not be taunted etc...Although this may not be realistic when it comes to what goes on in the locker room, it is slightly better than what the Celtics had to say.


From: Between two highways | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged

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