I have been trying to find an agency in the Toronto area that I could work with. I did find Maggie's (which I'd never heard about until I stopped working) but I haven't contacted them yet because I think my politics conflict a bit with theirs.

After having had heated debates with many feminists about legalization, I think I'm in the camp of decriminalization. And what I'd like to put my energy into is getting women out of the trade if that is what they're looking for. There seems to be no such agency in the GTA that focusses primarily in this area.

Out of all the women I met while working, I only know of three others who managed to get out. And getting out isn't easy, there's huge holes on your resume, you have this enormous social stigma that insists that you are not employable in a "square" job and there are almost no resources to help you. I mean, the government sends people to class if they've been laid off, but if you're a prostitute and you want to stop fucking for a living, well, you're all on your own.

Is that some Canadian term, like for "street walker"? (I'm Amurrican! Sorry!)

Dis, I take it you do not want to leave Canada? What do you think of the system in Nevada, or are you aware of it? I hear WILDLY DIVERGENT accounts. I am thoroughly mixed up. (You might need a first-hand look to make up your mind.) I tend to think its best, since they get health care and stuff. But I admit, I also hear the brothels are out in the boonies and very desolate.

Gonna send you a PM with an article printed that I can't link...about Nevada and very weird. Okay?

And here is something you might find interesting:

http://www.bayswan.org/index.html

[ September 27, 2002: Message edited by: SuperGimp ]

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Is that some Canadian term, like for "street walker"? (I'm Amurrican! Sorry!)

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A stroll is a street, or neighbourhood, where prostitutes hang out.

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Wouldn't getting rid of the "living off the avails" thing just let pimps off the hook? I thought that's what they always get the pimps on.

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That could be, though I had the impression "keeping a common bawdy house" wasn't on the books any more, and it was the "living off the avails" thing that prevented brothels. But, as always, IANAL.*

Anyway, my point was partly that if the prostitutes could work from brothels, they could stay off the streets, thus no pimps.

But that's probably overly hopeful. Still, there might be fewer.

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I'm interesting in seeing what people have to say about it, how they view prostitutions and its problems.

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I can't say I've that many profound thoughts about it. I suppose that any serious attempt to eliminate the "problem" of prostitution would likely be doomed to failure -- prostitution, in one form or another, will likely always be with us. So I'd prefer to see society treat prostitution as a form of work, in some respects like any other, and prostitutes as entitled to decent working conditions, the protection of the law, and so forth.

But of course, in other respects it's different, somehow -- looking not only at those prostitutes who work in the most miserable conditions (the runaway or throwaway kids, those with drug habits to support, etc.) but at the bigger picture (why do men, mostly, feel the need to buy sex; how does the relatively low pay women can earn in other jobs factor in; and on like that).

It's too many for me, as Huck Finn said, so I'd want to focus on workers' rights, for those as wanted to stay in the life, coupled with lots of support for those as wanted out.

I'm not naive enough to think that prostitution will ever be eliminated, but I do wish that it was easier for women to get out.

I heard about a case in the Netherlands where prostitution is legalized. Apparently brothels are permitted to post "job openings" there, and if a woman is receiving benefits and has a history of prostitution she is required to apply for it or else her benefits are cut. I read that on indymedia, not too sure about its source. But still, I'm all too aware that sometimes laws really don't work in favour of the people they are supposed to be protecting.

From what I've heard, not lived, many women don't appreciate the "living off the avails law" because sometimes they are supporting husbands who could be charged with a crime, whereas nobody ever gets charged with living off the avails of a doctor. So that law needs to be revamped.

I am just thinking out loud, still only on my first cup of coffee.

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I see selling one's most intimate sphrere as profoundly degrading to human beings and alienating both for the prostitute and the people, almost always men, who consume them. We are not things.

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My mother was a singer with several prominent bands (in the midwest and upper south), and was married 4 times--once to an affluent pimp who owned a restaurant (where he laundered his money). No, I had no clue, and believed he was just a "restauranteur" for years! I was just a kid--and didn't know squat.

I am not naive. Looking back on it, its very clear to me. At various times, she moonlighted in this profession.

I know that as a disabled child, I sometimes cost her a lot of money, too. She took measures not to have more children and I am an only child.

After her stroke a few years ago, she tried to tell me, but seemed to come up short. She said a lot of other things that didn't make sense, talking around the whole subject. I told her not to worry about that time in our lives, shit happens, and she seemed very relieved. We have been pretty close since then, and we weren't for years.

She is very forgetful now, but nonetheless gets very upset when this period of time is mentioned--on TV, in movies, songs, news documentaries, etc. She was never this way before.

But she knows I know. And its okay.

[ September 29, 2002: Message edited by: SuperGimp ]

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Either way, the conversation goes completely over and around me, like I'm not even there anymore.

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