Before I begin let me say I am lucky to have avoided all of this by doing an easy simple wedding that so far is making everyone happy. So this isn't my personal experience, this is just an overall view I've gleaned from working in the industry, being in friends weddings, reading the mags, and interacting with others as I plan my own.

You are truly damned if you do and damned if you don't as a woman planning a wedding. For instance take the bar. If you have a cash bar, people grumble that you are cheap and tacky and not hospitable. If you have an open bar, people gossip that you are spoiled and wasting money on extravagances.

Both criticisms are uniquely sexist in tone. In the first it's not that you are cheap, it's that you are diplaying some unfeminine trait of not wanting to look after guests properly. Of not being considerate of the needs of others. And in the second, you are a daddy's little girl, a spoiled brat, very feminine. Can you imagine these criticisms applied to grooms? They just don't sit right on men.

It's like this with every decision. Basically if you go for anything that costs money or is formal, you are a spoiled girl brat. But if you go for anything cheap or informal, you are inhospitable and unfeminine and not quite a girl, really (because real girls dream about being princesses on their wedding day).

I want a second-hand dress. I can't really explain why, it just sticks in my craw to think of paying big bucks for a new dress I'll wear once. It's not a political statement, I just won't feel good about myself in a dress like that. But the puzzlement I get from people when I say that blows my mind. It's like I'm not a real girl, because real girls care more about their dresses. But when a friend bought a big expensive dress, the same toungues wagged that she was spoiled and spending daddy's money on something ridiculous. There's no winning it seems.

You are supposed to be kind, frugal, hospitable, traditional, and modest all at the same time. Sounds so Victorian to me!

And if you dare express any negative emotion about this, you are a bridezilla. Again, it's a distinctly sexist criticism - how dare you be over-emotional and upset! Hold it in, suck it up, be a pretty girl excited about your big day!

Like I said, I'm lucky in that I have enough experience in the area to cut through the crap, do it cheaply and easily, and reflect on things like this in the meantime. But brides and weddings are really hot in pop culture right now, and I am starting to see something disturbing and woman-hating in all of it.

And how can you not bash any event that can involve:

- otherwise normal adults blowing $1000+ on flowers

- a "cake" that's all but inedible, shaped like an architectural monument, and costing anywhere from $500 - $12,000

- as many as 14 of your closest friends, forced to purchase a dress that looks like a toilet-paper holder, in sea foam, along with dyed shoes, just so they can stand near you

- a suit that you can rent for $200/day (compare that with an apartment)

- $50/plate for food people don't really like

- cheezy showers, stags, stag and does, and overblown trips to third world countries for the purposes of "having that first sex"

- optionally: horse drawn carriages, pigeons released, awkward home-written vows, cousins who can't sing singing "Wind Beneath My Wings", uncles attempting to dance "like these youngsters are doing nowadays", garters, bouquets, family infighting, drunks, weeping and gnashing of teeth.

While I'm here though, here's a pic of my wedding cake. My SIL made it, and according to her it got really surreal around 2am when she was decorating it. That's why there are apples and pears (OK) and also carrots, a cabbage (??) and kissing fish (!!). But I loved it!

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I want a second-hand dress.

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I was recently married and my partner and I began to plan a small intimate wedding and quickly changed our mind after a weeks worth of commentary from family and friends and pressure to exceed our budget. We didn't want to spend more than $1000.

So we arranged a suprise wedding over the christmas holidays when we knew everyone would be visiting with us anyway. We ended up hosting a potluck dinner at our home. We requested that guests bring a food item, instead of gifts and we had a great, low key party with our family and friends that just happened to include a service. It was pressure free and we enjoyed it. I didn't wear a wedding dress, we all dressed comfortably. Our friends said they appreciated not having to spend money to celebrate this event with us, as no financial committment was expected from them.

We are attending a fancy traditional wedding this weekend for one of my partners good friends and many people are not able to come because of the costs involved...gift, transportation, hotel etc. This seems really sad to me. The whole point is being with these people to celebrate your committment.

I think we need to get over this idea that a 'wedding' is supposed to cost thousands of dollars and that you have to wear a fancy dress and expensive food and drink. The whole thing seems silly to me. My husband and I were able to use that money to pay off student debt instead of going into more debt.

People spend too much money on weddings. My first wedding was a nightmare because my parents wanted the big shindig and I didn't, and I wound up caving. The second wedding was all our call, no pressure, and we footed the bill. Much better all around. Quick but lovely ceremony in my family church, dinner for family in my Mom's back yard (gourmet burgers and saskatoon pie), cocktail party for close friends and family, and a special Norwegian wedding cake (sort of a conical shape made of rings of a dense almond cake, more like shortbread, decorated with drizzle icing and candy roses, roses set in it like a vase, made especially by my MIL and SIL). Many said it was the best wedding they'd ever been to. I don't think we spent more than $1000.

edited to add: I think that whatever the couple wants is fine, though. If your idea of a good time is 400 people and a formal dinner, then you should go for it. I just wouldn't have enjoyed it much.

[ 22 June 2005: Message edited by: Zoot ]

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How did the SIL colour those fish?

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Just food colouring on marzipan, to the best of my knowledge. One fish is all that remains of them.

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I burried my wedding dress under a couple feet of sand in the desert before I left.

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I smell black and white art film!

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I was recently married and my partner and I began to plan a small intimate wedding and quickly changed our mind after a weeks worth of commentary from family and friends and pressure to exceed our budget. We didn't want to spend more than $1000.

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Our original plan was to find ourselves a witness each, toddle down to City Hall, and simply do it, but then we started thinking about the family, and their mopey faces if we told them after the fact, and that's when it all starts picking up speed. Not counting a new suit for me, I think we ended up well under $1000 in the end though. Service at City Hall, back to Casa Magoo for finger foods, drinks and chat, and all done by 9pm.

I think it can be done, but I also understand that if it cannot, then some-or-other family issue will be at the centre of it.

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If your idea of a good time is 400 people and a formal dinner, then you should go for it.

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The only time I was ever a bridesmaid was at a wedding with 450 or so guests. Insane. There were 5 bridesmaids, and I spent more than double on that stupid, ugly outfit than I did on my own wedding dress. They also ordered the wrong size (after I told them the correct size and even argued with them about it!) and had to have the whole damned thing re-cut because simple alterations weren't going to make it fit. It was in the largest facility in town -- the brides father booked the Turvey Centre the day they set the date. Wild. But the bride and groom seemed to want to do it that way, and I don't think they had any regrets.

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600?! That's scary, Magoo.

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It truly was. It was an ethnic Serbian wedding, and since my co-photographer's wife was part of that community, we got some inside scoop. It was indeed a loot grab, according to her, and apparently that's part of the game in that community. You show up to any wedding to which you're invited, and you bring a decent gift, so that when it's your kids' turn, they can also clean up.

The scariest part though? They had all kinds of severe looking older men marching around with big Serbian flags, and wearing sashes. I didn't know anyone still wore sashes, unironically, except maybe boy scouts. The men paraded around the bride and groom with these huge flags while the national anthem played. It was kind of creepy.

My wedding dress was made by a friend of my mother's. (She's a professional seamstress).

My bridesmaid's dresses were made by my sister. I picked out the material a year ahead of time, consulting with the bridesmaids (my two sisters and best friend), and told them all to find a pattern they liked that wasn't too difficult and give it to the sister making the dresses. She finished them the night before the wedding, but they were beautiful, and everyone had a style that suited them.

My maid of honour and I bought bunches of flowers from Loblaws the day of the wedding, she bought me roses, and we went back to her parents' house and did up our own bouquets.

The next day we had a reception at the hall we'd already booked before deciding to go small - finger foods and leftover Greek food, and had a lovely time with all the people who we weren't able to invite to the wedding. I think there might have been two people who were pissed off they weren't invited to the wedding, but only to the reception - we haven't heard from them since - but otherwise, everyone had a great time.

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I want a second-hand dress. I can't really explain why, it just sticks in my craw to think of paying big bucks for a new dress I'll wear once. It's not a political statement, I just won't feel good about myself in a dress like that. .

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Two friends of mine got married summer before last. They were not much younger than me, and as good Montréalais, had just shacked up before... She bought a lovely red summer dress, which she has worn several times later.

If you don't have friends to volunteer to make noshes (you will probably be very busy, even with a small, informal wedding) in cities at least there are interesting caterers connected to women's and other community groups - I know Alternatives often had lovely catered things from Arab and South Asian women's groups Personally, I'd buy a couple of big viniers (ask skdadl ) or here in Québec, get some bulk wine and also ask people to byob and for gourmet friends to bring noshes in lieu of a gift.

Some people, even mature people, need help with the wedding expenses, rather than gifts. Of course if they don't a "shower" to benefit a charity is a wonderful idea...

As for the ideological underpinnings of wedding schlock, that is a sociological study in itself. Students of immigration have written wonderful articles on the "wedding buffet" industry - many of the buffets were launched by the Italian community but other immigrant communities have latched on to the idea as well. Often working-class families, spending a couple of years' income (!!!) - sumptuary expenses unknown in their countries of origin...

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Originally posted by Melsky:
I had a big wedding I didn't really want and regret it to this day. I burried my wedding dress under a couple feet of sand in the desert before I left. I hope the coyotes are wearing it now.

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I hear so often from people that they don't want any kind of wedding - at the most a small reception a couple weeks after a private ceremony. I think that misses the whole point (understanding that people are free to do as they like in these matters). Are weddings often extravagant? Sometimes - less so in my experience as part of a LARGE family than some might suggest. Are they expensive? Yes. Are they often full of unnecessary ritual and "pomp"? Yes.

St. John's in late October is beautiful, as it was for our 5:30 ceremony just as sunset was on us. My MIL made my wifes' dress. We had a simple ceremony at church the my in-laws and their parents were married in, followed by a feast of homemade jigs dinner for the 60 or so guests. My family flew in and a great time was had by all.

Someone mentioned a cash vs. free bar above. We had the first three rounds free and then a cash bar. Seemed to work as a comprimise. One of my new aunts made the cake, while the other five decorated the hall, and at the end of the day my in-laws pulled it off for around 3 grand.

We spent the night in the bridal suite at the Battery Hotel, overlooking the city. We awoke to a breakfast of fresh salmon fish cakes and fried ham and bologna.

All in all, a pretty fantastic time.

[ 22 June 2005: Message edited by: Tommy Shanks ]

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Weddings are not utilitarian events, they are symbolic. I think we all deserve that kind of ritual in our lives.

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Yes, absolutely. And I don't think anyone should be criticized for the way in which they choose to celebrate the ritual.

I suppose the blond guy and I could have eloped. We did consider it, briefly. Or not gotten married at all -- we were already cohabitant parents of a wee gril. But it was important to us to make the statement of permanence in front of family and friends, the people important to us. It felt right.

edited to add: periyar, your wedding sari sounds beautiful.

[ 22 June 2005: Message edited by: Zoot ]

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Originally posted by periyar:
Coyote,
You're such a romantic. You continue to defy the many manly stereotypes- i mean that as a compliment. I think you are the only guy I've ever heard express such sentiments.

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Originally posted by Coyote:

I appreciate the compliment; but before you get too high of an opinion of me, I must note that I golf. Regularly. And I like it.

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To me though, and I know this is very bourgeois (because I have - and have always dated grils and women who have - the requisite resources), I have always expected whoever I am with to have their own pursuits; athletic, artistic, or what have you. I've only ever dated other people with plenty on the go who value that "extra-curricular" time as much as I do.

I can see how they can become a negative experience, particularly for the bride - though the groom can be made to suffer as well.

Our wedding was a blast, in large part because we'd both had experience organizing events, and just treated it like another event. Good food is all that really matters - people forgive everything else if the food is good.

The bizarre and complex pressures on the bride can make for some really miserable experiences - and the amount of money spent on some weddings boggles the mind.

Believe it or not, entering into a marriage is not the high point of a young person's life. Being in a good marriage can be wonderful, but the first day is probably the easiest, and other people will clean up after you. Later on it's all about balance, compromise and thoughtfulness, none of which is in any way related to how well the bridesmaids dresses matched, or how magnificent the cake was.

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Originally posted by mablepeabody:
I was recently married and my partner and I began to plan a small intimate wedding and quickly changed our mind after a weeks worth of commentary from family and friends and pressure to exceed our budget.

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I am with you on this. Like many here I wanted small. What surprised me was the backlash against that, from people that I thought would welcome the idea. And specifically, it bothered me that so much of it was centered around the idea that I would be some kind of non-girl if I didn't go for the Wedding of My Dreams.

It surprised me because you hear so often about how people had an inexpensive wedding, and they wear that as a badge of honor. Like "my wedding was $X and it was great, I didn't need all this fancy consumer stuff." So when I started thinking that way, I guess I was surprised to see that there was another side. That's what started making me feel like there's just no winning!

When I worked in the industry, I vowed that I would never let a wedding cause bad relationships within the family. No party is worth that. And it's so common. You wouldn't believe the carnage I saw.

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Originally posted by Scout:

I have one for you!

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Originally posted by Coyote:
I do not have children, so I do not know how that will play into such pursuits in the future; I imagine they will be curtailed significantly.

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My comment was pretty much in the context of caring for kids. My husband and I really share the work load and we have both cut back on some of the interests we pursued before we had our kids, but certainly no regrets.

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The problem, Lukewarm, is that you are being dismissive of women and womens' concerns in the Feminism Forum. That's a nay-nay.

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feminism.
fem·i·nism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fm-nzm)
n.
Belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes

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This was the view from upstairs

How could you improve on that ?

Some of my construction buddies came from all over to help get it ready. About 120 guests, and we had room to set rhe lower lever up for a sit-down meal (catered, buffet style by a sort of funky, health-food restaurant in town) and dnacining upstairs. (a local band that could do "any" request, and didn't cost much)

See, some of us South Asians do not merely have extended families, but we have extended-extended families, or even extended-extended-extended families. And for the first child's wedding at least, one has to invite as many of them as possible or risk letting people one has never met feel left out.

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How could you improve on that ?

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Originally posted by Hinterland:

The tallest one is the prudish, priggish, sister, pointy and scolding. The smallest one is the chubby sister, wanton and slutty. The middle one is handsome, normal and of course, forgotten.

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Although I would marry my husband again in a heartbeat there are points that I would do over again with my wedding.

I l-o-v-e-d our ceremony which included candles, vows that were a surprise until the moment we spoke them, great readings, and being surrounded by our family and friends. Some of our vows we had put on our bedroom wall. It was my favourite part.

We had beautiful memory books that we had done ourselves along with our family about our childhoods and our relationship as it emerged. We had asked people to contribute to it and that is my one regret about that. It ended up spoiling the book. I'd say the same about the quilt that we put where we asked people to write a special thought using a particular pen. A second mistake.

I am glad we didn't take gifts.

I liked the dresses for the bridal party.

My sister was absent that day as she had passed away and we included her memory in the day. Morbid to some I am sure but it was a personal need.

What I would change was the amount of time and energy I expended fretting over details that really didn't matter. Worried about table seating, who was talking to who, if people were enjoying their food, etc. I also wish that I had gotten to wear the dress that I wanted and I would have left much earlier on in the reception right after a first dance. I honestly wish I had had a relaxed atmosphere like the one that Michelle has described before where everyone was able to come, it was a potluck etc.

Mostly I wish I hadn't made as big a deal of it because all of those months of planning could have been much better spent actually BEING married and living our life together. That was the best part.

Couldn't ask for better.... except I wish I would have thought of the toy idea as well instead of ending up wit 4 toasters and 6 coffee makers I didn't need.

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How could you improve on that ?

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My wedding is coming up at the end of August and I've really enjoyed the planning. We're getting married at our college chapel, where we attended Mass together all through school. Then there's reception/dinner taking place in the restaurant where we had our fist date almost five years ago, which is very special. I've been told I can have no part in choosing flowers. We're having about 80 people, which is more than we wanted, but of course our parents insist on inviting some relative we've never met or a co-worker who inivted them to their child's wedding, so it jsut has a way of expanding.

When we got engaged, my parents hosted a nice casual engagement party in the backyard with a barbecue. Instead of gifts, we asked for contributions to a charity we both support.

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The tallest one is the prudish, priggish, sister, pointy and scolding. The smallest one is the chubby sister, wanton and slutty. The middle one is handsome, normal and of course, forgotten.
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So right, Hinter, and if I'm not mistaken (old friends from Morley) the First nations legends mirror/guide that analysis.

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An odd analysis, since the smallest one is the hardest to get on top of.

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Wedding of My Dreams

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My SIL had been planning her wedding since the age of 8.

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"Just show up" was the reply.

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its ironic. some here have expressed why we get married and have weddings: love, commitment, family, friends and celebration, but the culture has become fixated on an archetype of wedding: the extravaganza.

on a hopeful note: i think i have been to far more good weddings than bad. ones that whether or not they were low key or more formal, the focus was on celebration and fun.

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Originally posted by chester the prairie shark:

i wonder if ther isn't a coorelation to age? does it seem that the younger the couple the greater the liklihood that the "fairey tale" guides the planning?

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It has seemed to me that the younger the couple, the less likely they have a clue what they are getting themselves into - thus an increased likelihood of marriage disaster or grandiose perfection bizarroworld events.

I didn't feel prepared for the real commitment of marriage until I was in my 30s, and we had been together for 6 years, and cohabiting for 5 years. At that point, with no end in sight to our continued increasing appreciation of each other, we felt a wish to marry.

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Many others unfortunately mistake the passion of a first infatuation for lifelong love.

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*Zoot sheepishly raises hand*

Actually, the blond guy and I both fell into that one, and each had brief marriages in our early twenties. Good intentions aren't always enough.

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Originally posted by Mr. Magoo:

It truly was. It was an ethnic Serbian wedding, and since my co-photographer's wife was part of that community, we got some inside scoop. It was indeed a loot grab, according to her, and apparently that's part of the game in that community. You show up to any wedding to which you're invited, and you bring a decent gift, so that when it's your kids' turn, they can also clean up.

The scariest part though? They had all kinds of severe looking older men marching around with big Serbian flags, and wearing sashes. I didn't know anyone still wore sashes, unironically, except maybe boy scouts. The men paraded around the bride and groom with these huge flags while the national anthem played. It was kind of creepy.

Confession: if they hadn't left all kinds of wine stored right by the service door, maybe we wouldn't have pinched a couple bottles on our way out.

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As a Serb, I find this description pretty inaccurate.

Weddings in Serbian culture are not a "loot grab." They are cherished celebrations of life central to Serbian traditional popular culture, just as weddings are for Italians and Greeks, and many other cultures. Serbs have large weddings because friends and family all rightfully expect to be invited, and in Serbia, as in much of the world, families and circles of friends are extensive. That's how many communities function and thrive.

I'm going to be the master of ceremonies at a Serbian wedding taking place a month from now where there are expected to be 950 invited guests. While this is very large even by Serbian standards, because both families are very involved in the community and have large families, the initial guest list was well over a thousand, and many people will be insulted--genuinely and deeply insulted--by not being among the invitees.

As for the sashes and flags: the sashes are traditional decorations for key figures in the wedding party, like the godparents (Serbian weddings have godparents for both weddings and baptisms). The flags are a symbol of patriotism for the home country; you'll find plenty of nationals flags at many ethnic weddings. And I don't see anything wrong with an anthem being played at such an important occassion (although it probably wasn't the anthem you heard, but the song "March On The Danube").