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One of these days, the social democrats in Le Parti Quebecois will be running that party again and we must be ready for that!

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I think it's important to separate the future of the PQ from the future of the sovereigntist project. Whatever I've heard recently suggests that the PQ is about to collapse and that its base is decomposing. In other words, it will soon not exist. Sovereigntism may well reemerge at some later point as a burning issue. But leftists from Quebec have told me the left in Quebec is coming to realize that for the next while there are bigger problems than English Canada -- like the US and an ever nastier, more voracious, militarized neoliberalism. I am not sure the NDP will capitalize on this. Its convention in Quebec this year had to be postponed because beyond the provincial executive, only four delegates were registered to attend. But there is an opening for more strategic cooperation between the English Canadian and Quebecois left.

[ May 20, 2002: Message edited by: rasmus_raven ]

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Sounds like the old dame is a relic of old-fashioned anglo colonialism.

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Now this I find very harsh. Yes, there is a noble idea in protecting a culture from anglo-colonialism, however it cannot reverse the past. There are a thousand things that could be factors in this elderly woman's reasons for not picking up a new language, not the least of which is lack of neccessity. There is an entire generation in this province, French and English in the same position. They implemented these changes, but did not change themselves. There are many Francophones that age in Montreal who don't speak a word of English. But they can see where these programs have worked. They are living long enough to see some of the success of what has been accomplished by looking at the younger generation I spoke of earlier existing in a multicultural society. They were not that young when these changes became law. They could not all go back to school - and the government didn't pay for everyone either, remember. They could not all change. That takes time, and I maintain that a government choosing to waste time going after those who didn't for whatever reason catch up, that is just plain heartless. Focus where it counts. Support the arts and cultural events. Pour money into education. Build houses for people. That's the government I'm interested in - this one is mean-spirited and ugly.

[ May 22, 2002: Message edited by: Casper ]

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I am glad things have changed.

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I know plenty of people who became old at 25. Who got stuck in jobs, and didn't get many opportunities. Who had kids they wanted to feed and less time for themselves and a million other things that went into the folder of "Reasons I Didn't Finish Everything on the List of Everything I Ever Wanted To Do". Humans are not perfect. So this woman didn't keep up. So what? Do you really think that her learning French will change a thing? Government resources are limited and if they waste them focussing on the smallest battles rather than the larger ones, they lose.

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Yes, of course it is petty, but this sad case is being used by a reactionary anglophone lobby to deny Québécois rights that you would be very pleased to support if they were in Guatemala or Fidji - or probably even among Canadian aboriginals.

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You're right about one thing. It is petty.

[ May 23, 2002: Message edited by: Casper ]

Nobody "forced" me to learn french. Circumstance made it possible. Something that I am very grateful for.

There are people today that I once spoke English to and now speak french.

Just an anecdote. I the area where I live, there are perhaps a dozen residents, perhaps more anyhow there about six of us that used to get together, all women, and have a just english day. We all decided to let a french speaking lady, she did speak a little English, join our group.

Surprise, surprise we all spoke french! This is a particular situation in a particular place. I am sure that the Gazette and the Alliance picked this lady for propaganda purposes. In spite of that things have changed thanks to 101. There are a few, 'Ils trainent les pattes' Who the fuck really cares? I just would like to add that the Parti Québecois, in my opinion, started out on the right foot. I have mentioned this before that I see a thin red line between the PQ and the other parties.

[ May 23, 2002: Message edited by: clersal ]

It's good to run into the odd defender of Westmount Rhodesian relics - I've never voted for the PQ, or any other bourgeois party, and never will (I voted yes in the 1980 referendum and spoiled my ballot in the more recent one) and like most progressive Québécois-e-s am fairly fed up with the endless "constitutional" question, infinitely more interested in other struggles, and other countries.

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However, the fact of The Gazette and Alliance Quebec picking up on it is far, far pettier, and intended only to use some bureaucrat's excessive zeal to pick away at progress Québécois have made in the past 25 years in fighting national oppression.

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No so. There are a hell of a lot of Anglophones living in Quebec who feel not only under-represented, but in fact like targets of their goverment. Many have struggled to learn French. Their children learn French in school They pay the same taxes, but they cannot access health care, legal services or government aid in English. Yes, some sweet little old shopkeeper does maybe tug at the heart strings of some, but for the majority this is another example of the narrow-mindedness of the PQ - government that excludes them at every turn. It not for nothing that support for the PQ is dwindling.

1) I agree that French was threatened and that laws like 101 helped revive a culture that was in danger.

2) Those same laws have helped create a climate of multiculturalism, in which not only French, but other cultures flourish in Quebec.

3) Those laws did not include offers to pay for French lessons for anglo/allophone business owners. They did not offer to cover loses, or even give loans to anglos when they went to learn French. So some did not or simply could not.

4) Governments do not have infinite funding, however there are an infinite number of demands made for that money. Are you honestly telling me that you think health care is less important than funding the bloody OLF, who do vitually nothing to promote the kind of changes that the PQ profess they want to see?

5) There are fewer and fewer people now who identify themselves as Anglophones. Most English speakers I meet now under the age of 30 who are born and raised here are fluently bilingual and identify themselves as Quebeckers. And they are pissed off that they have done what they were supposed to and yet they are still being excluded and marginalized by the government (i.e. Parizeau's famous drunken speech - "We lost to Anglophones and immigrants".)

At what point does this stop? At what point does a younger, bilingual generation get to be considered part of the province by the government?

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No so. There are a hell of a lot of Anglophones living in Quebec who feel not only under-represented, but in fact like targets of their goverment. Many have struggled to learn French. Their children learn French in school They pay the same taxes, but they cannot access health care, legal services or government aid in English.

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There are a couple of things here. You don't have to struggle to learn french. Why make such a mystery out of a language that one has heard all their life living in Québec.

Why do they feel under-represented? One has to make a choice. I believe that they have access to health care, legal services and government aid.

If an American fell sick in the area where I live, medical treatment is available and is of the same quality that a Québecois would recieve even if they did not speak a word of English.

Oh, in the short term, you can legislate language use. You can bring out the Language Police (how Orwellian!), you can measure the size of signs, what position the various languages occupy on said signs, what size fonts for which language. Ban apostrophes. You can even prosecute elderly shopkeepers if you like. You can force immigrants to educate their children in a particular language (ie. deny them choice). But all of this only works in the short term.

Because in the long term, common sense kicks in. Even in Quebec, most people see the Language Police as silly in the extreme, with their cameras and tape measures. The internet works in English (mostly); it is a huge linguistic lever. People may, therefore, use more English for business, but conduct their artistic (or romantic) life in French, in la belle province. People are ingenious that way -- very flexible, unlike Bill 101.

In Richmond, B.C. (just outside Vancouver), there is a sizeable Asian population -- they speak Cantonese, by and large, and there are entire shopping malls that operate in Cantonese. So far, no government from the left or right has outlawed the use of Cantonese. And once the merchants find that Cantonese does not work to their benefit, they will switch to another language.

Kind of logical, ain't it. A lot better than bullying elderly women, n'est-ce pas?

[ May 23, 2002: Message edited by: Bandersnatch ]

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You don't have to struggle to learn french.

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Not always true. It's proven that the younger you are, the easier it is to learn a language. For many people, particuarly those who grew up unilingual, learning a language is a struggle - and let's not forget that people didn't hear it all their lives prior to radical change in Quebec. Mordecai Richler wrote at length about the changes you would see and hear when leaving a particular "quartier" of Montreal.

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I believe that they have access to health care, legal services and government aid.

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Also, not so. The PQ is in fact pushing to phase out bilingual positions in health care, particuarly in rural Quebec where they say it is not needed. This is not the case. I can site my own examples too - I had a health crisis last year, and couldn't get a gastro-enterologist who spoke English. So I sat in an office with a man speaking French with an incredibly strong Gaspe accent that I could not understand, believing he was telling me I had cancer because his language was incomprehensible to me. And that is in Montreal - the big hub of provincial bilingualism. With regards to the law just try talking to someone at the Regie du Logement and weaseling through legal mumbo jumbo in your second language - not to mention working as a journalist and finding that over 90 per cent of the SQ do not speak even conversational English (and that includes their media spokespersons!) It is not simple even for those whose conversational French is great, and there is usually no alternative. A major part of the PQ push for French was making all government services UNILINGUAL. Why do Anglophones feel under-represented - because they are.

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If an American fell sick in the area where I live, medical treatment is available and is of the same quality that a Québecois would recieve even if they did not speak a word of English.

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Then can you please send the Canton Marchand plan out to the rest of the province? Beacuse your model is badly needed!

[ May 23, 2002: Message edited by: Casper ]

[ May 23, 2002: Message edited by: Casper ]

From the CFCF 12 (CTV affiliate - local) website

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Action Democratique Ahead In The Polls
With four provincial by-elections less than a month away the upstart Action Democratique has surged ahead of the Liberals in the polls. According to the latest Som survey, the ADQ's popularity has jumped by over 5% this month alone, and their leader is top choice as the province's next premier. The poll, commissioned by la Presse and le Soleil, shows the Action Democratique with 36% support, over 8% above the Liberals and 13% higher than the PQ . Mario Dumont is top choice to lead the province at 35%, Jean Charest is next at just under 28%, while Bernard Landry lags in third with under 23% support. While it is the Liberals who lost the most ground in this latest poll, Jean Charest feels Dumont still has a lot to prove.

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ADQ homepage (en francais)

Their site doesn't tell much about their policies. They were launched as a sovereigntist party - Mario Dumont campaigned for the Yes side in the 95 referendum. He says that if the party takes power they will not seek independence.

No, the ADQ was launched as a "soft nationalist" party, supporting the Yes in the 95 referendum to seek more power and autonomy for Quebec. They are not sovereignist. They are similar in class composition and programme to the old Union nationale. Although their leader is very young and they demagocically talk about young people's rights this is really a right-wing ruse against labour and seniority rights, based on the baby boomers who are supposedly all rolling in cash and privilege (a lot of us aren't...). It is a right-wing, anti-labour party based essentially on old-stock French Quebecers, suspicious of the Liberal Party which it sees as under the sway of the ethnics and anglos.

Like the Liberal and the PQ, it is a party that is an enemy of progressive and working-class forces. Our only hope this fragmentation could mean an opening for a left-wing alternative in Quebec. However, the groups attempting to build a "Union des forces progressistes" will have to get real social movements such as the women involved in the World March for Bread and Roses, anti-globalisation youth and militant trade unionists on board. Despite the good showing by a progressive coalition in the Mercier (Plateau Mont-Royal) by-election last year, this is still a long way from reality.

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No, the ADQ was launched as a "soft nationalist" party, supporting the Yes in the 95 referendum to seek more power and autonomy for Quebec.

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Interesting, since Dumont himself maintains in interviews (my editor at the radio spoke to him yesterday) that the party was launched as a sovereigntist party. But the only platform points I have heard him talk about are tax breaks (at the expense of jobs in the public service no doubt).

[ May 26, 2002: Message edited by: Casper ]