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Author Topic: Stéphane Dion dumps candidate for article on 9/11
unionist
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posted 26 September 2008 09:05 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This character alternates between being a clown and a hypocrite. Now he's trying out for the part of cowardly goon. He has dumped Winnipeg candidate Lesley Hughes, a well-known CBC and then freelance journalist around town, and a staffer of Canadian Dimension. Why? Read on:

Dion asks Liberal candidate to step down over controversial comments

quote:
Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion has asked Winnipeg-area candidate Lesley Hughes to step down over comments she made in the past suggesting Israeli companies were given a heads-up ahead of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the U.S.

"I have reviewed the past comments of Lesley Hughes and it is clear they do not meet [our] standard," Dion said in a Friday release. "While I appreciate her apology, I cannot condone those sentiments in any way. I have therefore asked Ms. Hughes to step down as the Liberal party candidate in Kildonan-St. Paul."


You may wish to read her original 2002 article and try to figure out why she apologized and what creeps like Dion represent for Canada.

[ 26 September 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 26 September 2008 09:10 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Free speech has nothing to do with it. Just like the mysognist, war resister hater for the NDP who should be dumped, Dion was well within his rights to dump her.
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Ghislaine
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posted 26 September 2008 09:24 AM      Profile for Ghislaine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Is anyone keeping a running total of how many candidates from all parties have stepped down due to past comments/revealing erections to teen girls/etc.? It seems like there has been at least two from every single party and much more than previous elections. Is it solely due to the internet and the fact that nothing can remain hidden?
From: L'Î-P-É | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 26 September 2008 09:25 AM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Interesting. I don't know for a fact that the case against Hughes originated on the blogs but it's possible. A few days ago Liblogger Jason Cherniak was trying to tie Jack Layton and a few other NDP candidates to the 9/11 truth movement with the most tenuous of connections. It amounted to a smear he pulled out of his butt. So in return, an NDP blogger did some research and came up with Hughes' offending comments. Now suddenly the top-down media have the story. It would be ironic if Cherniak's antics actually resulted in this candidate getting bounced.
From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Joel_Goldenberg
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posted 26 September 2008 09:31 AM      Profile for Joel_Goldenberg        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Ghislaine:
Is anyone keeping a running total of how many candidates from all parties have stepped down due to past comments/revealing erections to teen girls/etc.? It seems like there has been at least two from every single party and much more than previous elections. Is it solely due to the internet and the fact that nothing can remain hidden?

I was wondering the same thing- candidates seem to be dropping like flies, figuratively. And yes,. I think it's because of the Internet. Dip your toe in politics and your whole life is scrutinized.


From: Montreal | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ghislaine
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posted 26 September 2008 09:31 AM      Profile for Ghislaine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It is also interesting that most of these comments and incidents are being discovered and publicized by bloggers and the MSM is left covering the story after the fact and only then do the parties act to dump candidates.

In terms of unionist's thread title - Ms. Hughes still has her free speech. Dion is not threatening that, he is just saying that her views are not compatible with the Liberal party and he doesn't want them associated with his party. Given her history and views, what the hell did she see in the liberal party in the first place? Also, does anyone here think that the NDP would have kept her on with these statements on record? I think they are the party most likely to keep her on, but I am doubtful given their treatment of other candidates (Julian West notwithstanding - his behaviour bordered on sexual harassment).


From: L'Î-P-É | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged
Scott Piatkowski
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posted 26 September 2008 09:33 AM      Profile for Scott Piatkowski   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
As with the NDP candidate in Durham, I have to wonder whether Hughes is in the right party. Her conspiracy theories sound like something I'd expect from someone more on the fringe of the political debate in this country.
From: Kitchener-Waterloo | Registered: Sep 2001  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 26 September 2008 09:35 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by josh:
Free speech has nothing to do with it. Just like the mysognist, war resister hater for the NDP who should be dumped, Dion was well within his rights to dump her.

Yes, every party leader is "well within his rights" to dump any candidate, and they don't need to have a reason - that's the way the elections law works.

But do you really think Hughes' comments (where she is basically surveying internet journalists and bloggers) can be compared to the misogynist pro-war creep? Can you quote the paragraph(s) of Hughes' article that merit this kind of treatment?

ETA: Yes, everyone above is right, this isn't about "free speech". But some have said the NDP would have dumped her for these same comments. I need to understand why, which is why I've linked to her full article.

[ 26 September 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
josh
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posted 26 September 2008 09:40 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

But do you really think Hughes' comments (where she is basically surveying internet journalists and bloggers) can be compared to the misogynist pro-war creep? Can you quote the paragraph(s) of Hughes' article that merit this kind of treatment?


No, I don't. But again, that's not the point.


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
It's Me D
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posted 26 September 2008 09:40 AM      Profile for It's Me D     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The NDP hasn't dumped Fidel ; where is he anyway? I'd like to hear what he has to say about this.
From: Parrsboro, NS | Registered: Apr 2008  |  IP: Logged
nicky
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posted 26 September 2008 09:41 AM      Profile for nicky     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
How will this affect the race in Kildonan St Paul?

While I'm asking, what about Saanich?


From: toronto | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
jas
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posted 26 September 2008 10:03 AM      Profile for jas     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Another example of how evidence or views on 9/11 complicity get marginalized or dismissed in popular media. Making a comment about Israeli companies abandoning their leases in the WTC a week before the attacks is equated with anti-semitism.

Herein contains the offending comment:

quote:
Many official sources are claiming to have warned the American intelligence community, which spends $30 billion a year gathering information, about the attacks on the twin towers on that heartbreaking day.

German Intelligence (BND) claims to have warned the U.S. last June, the Israeli Mossad and Russian Intelligence in August. Israeli businesses, which had offices in the Towers, vacated the premises a week before the attacks, breaking their lease to do it. About 3000 Americans working there were not so lucky.

Ironically, the stock market was also warning anyone who cared to notice that something peculiar was afoot: in the week prior to Sept. 11, unknown speculator(s) were suddenly betting that the stocks of United Airlines and American Airlines were going to fall in value; the trades were placed through Deutschebank/AB Brown, a firm formerly managed by Buzzy-Krongard, now executive director of the CIA.


Interesting that the only commentary on this story that google can muster is from the likes of this or amateur blogs.

Warning to other candidates in this election who may have "offending" views on 9/11. Keep your mouths shut. Any remarks that compromise the official story will compromise you.


From: the world we want | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
JeffWells
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posted 26 September 2008 10:05 AM      Profile for JeffWells     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Regardless of one's thoughts re 9/11, there's no reasonable way to interpret her comments as anti-semitic. Dion was within his rights to ask her to step aside since her views were not in align with the party's and was causing it embarrassment, but it's just morally wrong to smear the woman with such a label.
From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rich L
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posted 26 September 2008 10:06 AM      Profile for Rich L     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by nicky:
How will this affect the race in Kildonan St Paul?

Unfortunately, I think Kildonan-St. Paul remains an uphill battle to defeat Joy Smith, the Tory MP, given that I think they'll see their numbers go up a little in Manitoba.

2006 results:
Con 17,524
Lib 13,597
NDP 8,193
Grn 1,101

Given that the Liberal candidate's name remains on the ballot (even though the Liberal candidate's been removed, her name will stay on the ballot, as it's past the nomination deadline), that would free up maybe only 10,000 votes at most. The NDP candidate would have to get nearly all of these in order to defeat the Tory, and that's unlikely to happen.

quote:
Originally posted by nicky:
While I'm asking, what about Saanich?

I think the same is true in Saanich-Gulf Islands, though there's a bit more of a chance of defeating Gary Lunn, the Tory MP there.

2006 results:
Con 24,416
Lib 17,144
NDP 17,445
Grn 6,533

Again, the NDP candidate's name will remain on the ballot, so some votes will likely still be cast for the NDP. However, it's possible that 12,000-13,000 votes will be freed up to help the Liberal candidate. However, the Liberal faces a tough challenge given that Tory numbers are up in BC, while the Liberals are facing a meltdown. Furthermore, many of the NDP voters will likely cast their ballot for Andrew Lewis, the well-known, high-profile Green candidate who's made a consistently strong showing.

My fear is that the Tory will win with something like 27,000 votes to something like 20,000 for the Liberal, 14,000 for the Green, and 4,000 for the NDP.

(edited to correct some math)

[ 26 September 2008: Message edited by: Rich L ]


From: Winnipeg | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 26 September 2008 10:07 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by jas:
Making a comment about Israeli companies abandoning their leases in the WTC a week before the attacks is equated with anti-semitism.

Well, that's part of what I don't get about this whole story.

Has someone equated her article with anti-semitism? If so, who? Did Dion do so?


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
genstrike
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posted 26 September 2008 10:13 AM      Profile for genstrike   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by nicky:
How will this affect the race in Kildonan St Paul?

While I'm asking, what about Saanich?


KSP is one of the safer Conservative ridings in the city. Joy Smith barely won it in 2004 against a Liberal who was a former city councillor, but her personal popularity and that of the Conservatives has only gone up since then. The NDP does have a pretty good candidate there in Ross Eadie, but I don't think they can go from 3rd place to knocking her off (unless maybe every NDPer in the city runs to KSP as they have no other ridings in the city to really worry about (3 safe ones, and the rest are hopeless)... even then it's a long shot).

Hmmm, maybe Hughes can run off and join the Canadian Action Party...


From: winnipeg | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged
Caissa
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posted 26 September 2008 10:19 AM      Profile for Caissa     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Dion seems to have blown this one.
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Joel_Goldenberg
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posted 26 September 2008 10:20 AM      Profile for Joel_Goldenberg        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:

Well, that's part of what I don't get about this whole story.

Has someone equated her article with anti-semitism? If so, who? Did Dion do so?


B'nai Brith Canada did.

Their latest press release:

B’nai Brith Canada applauds Liberal leader
for doing right thing by firing candidate over antisemitic remarks
TORONTO, September 26, 2008 – B’nai Brith Canada, which earlier had urged Liberal Party leader Stéphane Dion to remove Lesley Hughes as the Liberal candidate for Kildonan-St.Paul over her antisemitic 9/11 conspiracy theories, has welcomed Dion’s request for her resignation.

“Stéphane Dion has done the right thing by refusing to let Lesley Hughes, a candidate with a record of antisemitism, stand for the Liberal Party of Canada,” said Frank Dimant, Executive Vice President of B’nai Brith Canada.

“We commend Stéphane Dion for signaling that antisemitsm and bigotry have no place in the multicultural mosaic of Canada.”


From: Montreal | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
jas
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posted 26 September 2008 10:22 AM      Profile for jas     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What is her "record" of anti-semitism?
From: the world we want | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
jas
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posted 26 September 2008 10:25 AM      Profile for jas     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I would guess the claim of anti-semitism is used mainly to discredit the rest of her 9/11 commentary. Can you fire someone just for pointing out some facts and anomolies of that event? For being a 9/11 "nutbar"? Opportunists like Harper needed a bigger spear.
From: the world we want | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Caissa
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posted 26 September 2008 10:25 AM      Profile for Caissa     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The CBC article says she taught courses on Holocaust Education at the University of Winnoipeg for a decade.
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Ghislaine
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posted 26 September 2008 10:28 AM      Profile for Ghislaine     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yes, Dion definitely seems to have screwed up here.

given the numbers quoted above it is unlikely - but suppose Hughes wins - would she have to sit as an independant?


From: L'Î-P-É | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged
JeffWells
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posted 26 September 2008 10:28 AM      Profile for JeffWells     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And now Barbara Kay is calling for Layton to sack the NDP's Bourassa candidate Samira Laouni for having organized a Canadian Islamic Congress fundraiser at which "terrorist apologist" Yvonne Ridley was guest speaker.

I have to wonder how much harder it's going to be for each party to cultivate willing candidates for marginal ridings next election. Especially among those who's ever posted something on the Internet.


From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 26 September 2008 10:36 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
BKay, is spouting anti-Islam BS, and needs to be ignored as she always is anyway.
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Joel_Goldenberg
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posted 26 September 2008 10:38 AM      Profile for Joel_Goldenberg        Edit/Delete Post
John F. Kennedy and Franklin Roosevelt would never have had a chance of being president in this day and age, what with the current scrutiny.
From: Montreal | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 26 September 2008 10:41 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Joel_Goldenberg:

B'nai Brith Canada did.


B'nai Brith are a gang of ultra-right thugs. Their self-identification with the Jewish people (as in this disgusting article) is itself a heinous act of anti-semitism.

I hope B'nai Brith's praise for Dion's cowardly act is the final nail in his coffin.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 26 September 2008 10:44 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by jas:
What is her "record" of anti-semitism?

Any Winnipegger who knows Lesley Hughes's record would howl with laughter, or anger, at that question. This creep Dion, together with the BB thugs, have conspired to destroy her reputation.

The other thing I can't grasp is her "apology".

I'm reverting back. This is an attack on freedom of speech and thought. Not dropping her as a candidate (I don't care about that) - but proclaiming that her views were anti-semitic and throwing a chill over anyone who dares to use the word "Israel" in a non-orgasmic context.


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Lord Palmerston
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posted 26 September 2008 10:47 AM      Profile for Lord Palmerston     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Why on earth would a CD staffer run for the Liberals in the first place?
From: Toronto | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
aka Mycroft
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posted 26 September 2008 10:48 AM      Profile for aka Mycroft     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The claim that Israeli firms had foreknowledge of 9/11 and cancelled their leases in the the WTC a week before is nonsensical and just another variation of the canard that hundreds of Jews (or Israelis) failed to show up for work at the WTC on 9/11.

Hughes expressed this nonsensical theory in a non-critical way and when she had a chance to clarify her views yesterday she chose not to dismiss the theory as nonsense or say that while she heard it "reported" she doesn't believe it. Instead she proclaimed offence that anyone could possibly construe the notion as anti-semitic which, to my mind, either suggests appalling ignorance or complete disingenuousness.

[ 26 September 2008: Message edited by: aka Mycroft ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
jas
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posted 26 September 2008 10:57 AM      Profile for jas     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Palmerston:
Why on earth would a CD staffer run for the Liberals in the first place?

quote:
2006 results:
Con 17,524
Lib 13,597
NDP 8,193

[ 26 September 2008: Message edited by: jas ]


From: the world we want | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
V. Jara
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posted 26 September 2008 11:14 AM      Profile for V. Jara     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Any predictions for what the result (%) will be in Kildonan-St. Paul without a Liberal running?
From: - | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Joel_Goldenberg
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posted 26 September 2008 11:15 AM      Profile for Joel_Goldenberg        Edit/Delete Post
Here's CJC's statement:

Canadian Jewish Congress commends dismissing of candidate Lesley Hughes; 'no place in Canada for 9/11 Jewish conspiracy theories'

Toronto--- Canadian Jewish Congress (CJC) today applauded the rescinding of the nomination of Lesley Hughes as the Liberal candidate in the riding of Kildonan-St. Paul by Liberal leader Stéphane Dion.

CJC Co-President Sylvain Abitbol stated that, "Ms. Hughes crossed a line which cannot be crossed under any circumstances because there is no place in Canada for 9/11 Jewish conspiracy theories. She has proven herself unfit to be a member of the House of Commons."

CJC Co-President Rabbi Reuven Bulka observed that, "CJC made it crystal clear to Liberal party representatives that such views on 9/11 were simply unacceptable. We would have reacted the same way at any time under any circumstances. The allegations of a 9/11 Jewish conspiracy theory are a modern twist on the age-old antisemitic calumny that Jews control world events."


From: Montreal | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
JeffWells
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posted 26 September 2008 11:20 AM      Profile for JeffWells     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Joel_Goldenberg:
Here's CJC's statement:

"...The allegations of a 9/11 Jewish conspiracy theory are a modern twist on the age-old antisemitic calumny that Jews control world events."


All I've read by Hughes is that single piece posted above, but if it's representative of her views then this is a terribly unjust caricaturization of them.


From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 26 September 2008 11:26 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don't see her views as "anti-semitic" per se. More just incredibly delusional and stupid and on a par with believing the world is flat. But not anti-semitic.

Kildonan-St. Paul could actually be winnable for the NDP under the right circumstances. Most of the provincial ridings in vote NDP and the NDP candidate is a blind gentleman who is an activist in the disabled community. I think the Tories may be too strong on the Praifries right now for the NDP to win - but it is not outside the realm of possibility - esp. with no Liberal running.


From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 26 September 2008 11:32 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by aka Mycroft:
The claim that Israeli firms had foreknowledge of 9/11 and cancelled their leases a week before is nonsensical and just another variation of the canard that hundreds of Jews (or Israelis) failed to show up for work at the WTC on 9/11.

I agree. In fact, I think ALL 9/11 conspiracy theories to date are nonsensical. Many of them are suffused with the underlying supremacist notion that some amateurish Muslims couldn't perpetrate such an attack on all-knowing all-powerful America.

But given that it's all voyeurist fantasy stuff, you'll have to explain to me one more time how this is "anti-semitic" (since the entire charge seems to be based on this paragraph):

quote:
German Intelligence (BND) claims to have warned the U.S. last June, the Israeli Mossad and Russian Intelligence in August. Israeli businesses, which had offices in the Towers, vacated the premises a week before the attacks, breaking their lease to do it. About 3000 Americans working there were not so lucky.

I agree it's paranoid (if there's no evidence), but all she is doing is reporting (uncritically) some claims she read on the internet.

Is it also anti-German, anti-U.S., and anti-Russian (because they were all complicit)??

I must be slow today. Maybe it has to do with knowing Lesley Hughes, which clearly most people in this thread do not.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 26 September 2008 11:45 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The only 9/11 conspiracy theory that need be entertained is...

"Reichstag Fire".

Just as it is not necessary that the German government have been actively complicit in the use of the Reichstag Fire for its own ends, it is not necessary that the US government have been actively complicit in 9/11 (though reports are repeatedly surfacing that the US government was possessed of a monumental level of negligence in abandoning anti-terrorism funding, presumably so Ashcroft's minions could spend more time figuring out how to ignore people bombing abortion clinics), for the US government to have opportunistically used 9/11 for its own ends.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
JeffWells
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posted 26 September 2008 01:33 PM      Profile for JeffWells     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hughes reacts:

quote:
In a press release Thursday evening, Ms. Hughes had denied her writing was anti-Jewish but said she was sorry if people had taken it that way.

"I find any interpretation of my journalism as anti-Semitic personally offensive and I heartily apologize for that perception," she said in the Thursday statement.

On Friday, Ms. Hughes, speaking to CBCNewsworld, described her dismissal by the Liberal party as “incredibly unjust.”

She appeared to be shocked when she learned of her dismissal on air from a CBC reporter.

“I have no time for conspiracy theories about the Jewish population whatever,” she said. “The article that I wrote, for anyone who reads it carefully, is very clearly innocent of any kind of anti-Semitic feeling. I'm just absolutely stunned by this.”


She learned of it on air from a CBC reporter?


From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
ohara
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posted 26 September 2008 01:37 PM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
But given that it's all voyeurist fantasy stuff, you'll have to explain to me one more time how this is "anti-semitic" (since the entire charge seems to be based on this paragraph):


If Hughes embrace of this anti-Semitic fallacy is true think what it means! It means that Israelis (read Jews) had prior knowledge of a terrorist attack on the Twin Towers. Those insular Israelis (read Jews) only told their co-religionists. They are so evil and callous that they could care less about the other 3000 people murdered that day.

Come on Unionist, can there be anything more vile than an entire group of people only caring about themseleves and refusing to share this vital information with others. Information that might have stopped the attacks or at the very least saved thousands of lives?


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ghoris
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posted 26 September 2008 01:57 PM      Profile for ghoris     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Stockholm:

Kildonan-St. Paul could actually be winnable for the NDP under the right circumstances. Most of the provincial ridings in vote NDP and the NDP candidate is a blind gentleman who is an activist in the disabled community. I think the Tories may be too strong on the Praifries right now for the NDP to win - but it is not outside the realm of possibility - esp. with no Liberal running.

I think I posted on one of these threads that it would take a 'perfect storm' for the NDP to win Kildonan-St. Paul. Little did I know...

While the NDP is likely to gain a net benefit from the loss of the Liberal candidate, I'm not at all convinced that those who were going to vote Liberal will fall neatly into line behind Ross Eadie. A large number will just stay home, and some will vote for Smith. I think she will still win fairly comfortably.

Kildonan-St. Paul has become, in some sense, the story of federal politics in Winnipeg in the last 20 years. From the late 60s to the mid-80s, Manitoba was basically a two-party system at the federal level. The Tories would clean up in rural Manitoba and south Winnipeg, the NDP would win Churchill and north Winnipeg, and you'd have one or two Liberals on the dividing line, like Lloyd Axworthy in Winnipeg South Centre or Bob Bockstael in St. Boniface. Basically the federal scene mirrored the provincial scene.

Then in 1988 there was a major realignment at the provincial level as the NDP was basically reduced to a rural Northern rump, with pockets of support in Winnipeg, the Liberals virtually swept Winnipeg, and the Tories held on to their traditional southern rural base. This was mirrored on the federal level with the Liberals winning all but two seats in Winnipeg.

Until 2004, the PCs/Reform/Alliance were unable to win any seats in Winnipeg, but by 2000 there was evidence that the ground was starting to shift. John Harvard had a surprisingly close call in Charleswood-Assiniboine and the Alliance leapfrogged over the NDP to finish a strong second to Rey Pagtakhan in Winnipeg North-St.Paul (the forerunner of Kildonan-St.Paul).

Sure enough, in 2004 the Conservatives scored narrow wins in both Charleswood-St.James-Assiniboia and Kildonan-St.Paul, which then became much more comfortable wins in 2006 when the Tories also grabbed Winnipeg South. Now they are poised to win St. Boniface and potentially Winnipeg South Centre, and are by all accounts making a serious run at Elmwood-Transcona.

To some degree, it looks on the surface like a return to the old voting patterns of the 70s and 80s. But unlike the changes of the mid-80s, and what makes the current trend really bizzare, is that this shift toward the Conservatives at the federal level in Winnipeg comes at a time when the provincial NDP has enjoyed unprecedented success in the city by winning formerly safe Tory suburban seats.

My sense is that the Conservatives will do very well in the City of Winnipeg in this election and the Liberals will be virtually (if not totally) wiped out. It would be great to give Joy Smith a real run for her money, but the tide seems very much in favour of the Conservatives right now.


From: Vancouver | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Lefty
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posted 26 September 2008 02:14 PM      Profile for West Coast Lefty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But given that it's all voyeurist fantasy stuff, you'll have to explain to me one more time how this is "anti-semitic" (since the entire charge seems to be based on this paragraph):


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If Hughes embrace of this anti-Semitic fallacy is true think what it means! It means that Israelis (read Jews) had prior knowledge of a terrorist attack on the Twin Towers. Those insular Israelis (read Jews) only told their co-religionists. They are so evil and callous that they could care less about the other 3000 people murdered that day.
Come on Unionist, can there be anything more vile than an entire group of people only caring about themseleves and refusing to share this vital information with others. Information that might have stopped the attacks or at the very least saved thousands of lives?


Well said and exactly accurate, Ohara. The contrast in the quote between the "Americans who were not so lucky" and the Jewish employees who alledgedly didn't come to work (are they not Americans just as much as anybody else) on 9/11 (this is completely and utterly false, of course)is abhorrent and unacceptable. That concept is Anti-semitic to the core.

Whether Hughes actually believes this to be true or not, I have no idea and she seems to be an impressive person in other respects, but there is no doubt in my mind that the statement as written is deeply anti-semitic.

That being said, the way Dion handled this mess was abysmal - he basically allowed the Canadian Jewish Congress to decide if Hughes had grovelled and scraped enough to be allowed to continue as a candidate. That is totally inappropriate. The statement says what it says, her apology was clear, and it was up to Dion and nobody else to decide if she could continue as a Liberal candidate or not. Yet another example of "not a leader" in action


From: Victoria, B.C. | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 26 September 2008 02:36 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by West Coast Lefty:
The contrast in the quote between the "Americans who were not so lucky" and the Jewish employees who alledgedly didn't come to work (are they not Americans just as much as anybody else) on 9/11 (this is completely and utterly false, of course)is abhorrent and unacceptable. That concept is Anti-semitic to the core.

Pardon my slowness. Where did you read anything about "Jewish employees"?

You think "Israeli businesses" means Jews? Or that they hire only Jews?

And next: of the 3000 "Americans" who died, who said there weren't many Jews among them?

The distinction make by Hughes is some weird story about some Israeli-owned businesses acting on a warning which was received by the U.S., Israeli, and Russian intelligence services - vs. those who didn't get the warning and weren't so lucky.

Yeah, it's bizarre and dumb - it's sort of anti-intelligence services and anti-U.S. and anti-Israel etc. - but where, exactly, is it anti-Jewish?

Let me put it a little differently:

Have you run into any public figures who made only one published "anti-semitic" statement in their entire career - and forgot to use the word "Jewish"?

ETA: This was from last year:

quote:
United Jewish People's Order and the Winnipeg Outlook Committee sponsor the annual dinner in support of Outlook, Canada's Progressive Jewish Magazine, Nov. 29, 6 p.m. at Gwen Secter Creative Living Centre. The topic is Dissecting Canadian politics. Guest speakers are Frances Russell and Lesley Hughes. For reservations call Dora at 338-3448 or Bertha at 489-5891.

Frances Russell and Lesley Hughes are both decades-long respected progressive journalists in Winnipeg. I guess UJPO and Outlook will be shocked to find that at least one of them is an "anti-semite"!

This whole thing is character assassination, pure and simple, and I'm quite amazed, WCG, that you should buy into it based on virtually no solid information.

[ 26 September 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 26 September 2008 03:05 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I suppose, WCG and others, you're aware that Lesley Hughes is a co-host of Alert!, on the Rabble Podcast Network.

Where do I write to demand a public inquiry into Rabble's links with anti-Jewish conspiracy theorists?

Will Rabble dump Alert! and Canadian Dimension, or just demand that they fire Lesley Hughes?


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 26 September 2008 04:42 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by It's Me D:
The NDP hasn't dumped Fidel ; where is he anyway? I'd like to hear what he has to say about this.


This U.S. government, as did Clinton's administration before them, seriously misled Americans as to the origins of al Qa'eda, the terrorists who allegedly masterminded 9-11. I can certainly understand where Liberal candidate Hughes is coming from - some of the 9-11 commissioners themselves indicated they were misled by the Pentagon and NSA. The German court justices who dealt with the Hamburg cell berated Pentagon officials for covering up evidence for reasons of "U.S. national security."

Scholar Peter Dale Scott says there is comparable resistance to truth in both the Warren Commission Report on the JFK assassination as there is with U.S. Fed's 9-11 report, for example:

The U.S. government’s intimate on-going connection to al-Qaeda and a chief 9/11 plotter

quote:
It is now generally admitted that Ali Mohamed (known in the al Qaeda camps as Abu Mohamed al Amriki — "Father Mohamed the American")8 worked for the FBI, the CIA, and U.S. Special Forces. As he later confessed in court, he also aided the terrorist Ayman al-Zawahiri, a co-founder of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, and by then an aide to bin Laden, when he visited America to raise money

Long-short, I think very many Americans are unaware of the deep state politics, as Peter Dale Scott refers to it, that has been part of the global terror and drug trafficking network since start of the cold war. I think the 9-11 report was a sham and a coverup, and there will definitely be people questioning what are gaping holes and inconsistencies in the official explanation. 9-11 is the reason was Canadian troops were shoved into Afghanistan, and it is a phony war on terror. There were subsequent investigations into the JFK assassination following justice Warren's report, and I believe there may well be more to come concerning 9-11. What Did Israel Know in Advance of the 9/11 Attacks?


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
jas
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posted 26 September 2008 04:49 PM      Profile for jas     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I guess to Ohara, "Israeli" means Jew, of any nationality. And so from now on, any Jew in America will need to be identified as an "Israeli" - because we all know they're conspiring together.
From: the world we want | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
O.
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posted 26 September 2008 05:01 PM      Profile for O.        Edit/Delete Post
So I should either vote for the Green Party, or the NDP...uhm...

Kildonan-St.Paul
Manitoba

[ 26 September 2008: Message edited by: O. ]


From: Canada | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged
contrarianna
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posted 26 September 2008 05:13 PM      Profile for contrarianna     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The uncut story of Fidel's last link: "What Did Israel Know in Advance of the 9/11 Attacks?" can be found as a pdf on the author's site below
=====
"Christopher Ketcham is a freelance journalist who has written for Harper's and Salon. Many of his writings, including his groundbreaking story on the Israeli art students, can be read on his website www.christopherketcham.com. "

From: here to inanity | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 26 September 2008 05:18 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:

This whole thing is character assassination, pure and simple, and I'm quite amazed, WCG, that you should buy into it based on virtually no solid information.

[ 26 September 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]


I think so. The real anti-semites are right-wing Israelis and their hawkish British and American friends. All of them together care very little about ordinary Jews, and they don't give a damn about anyone else who stands in the way of fabulous wealth and power.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 26 September 2008 05:43 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I agree, Fidel.

And while we're at it, we'd better warn the Jewish founder of CD about the notorious author of anti-Semitic canards that has wormed her way into his editorial collective.

You know, this has been a real eye-opener to me. As a child of genocide survivors, with a Jewish upbringing and education, I can't even recognize anti-Semitism when it hits me in the face. Thank God for B'nai Brith, the National Post and Stéphane Dion. With friends like that, our people can be assured of staunch allies in time of need.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
ohara
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posted 26 September 2008 07:10 PM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by jas:
I guess to Ohara, "Israeli" means Jew, of any nationality. And so from now on, any Jew in America will need to be identified as an "Israeli" - because we all know they're conspiring together.
Too cute by half. However anyone familiar with anti-Semitic conspiracy theories (and that was the reference here so stop extrapolating nonsense)will know that all too often its safer to say "Israeli" when you really mean "Jew".

For me, I do not believe that Hughes is an anti-Semite. I do believe she bought into this anti-Semitic conspiracy crap and she simply should have acknowledged this stupid error in judgement. That she did not do so made it even more clear to me that she in fact believes this tripe.

Dion was slow but right. A person that holds such views ought not be a candidate for any political party.


From: Ottawa | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 26 September 2008 07:18 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by ohara:
For me, I do not believe that Hughes is an anti-Semite. I do believe she bought into this anti-Semitic conspiracy crap and she simply should have acknowledged this stupid error in judgement. That she did not do so made it even more clear to me that she in fact believes this tripe.

It is unnerving that you would throw such charges around - even saying what she "believes" - without any knowledge or circumspection. You should be careful about such charges, otherwise they will become meaningless. When Stephen Harper implies she is anti-Semitic because (as he said) she attacks the "only Jewish nation in the world", then taking Harper's side against Hughes is to suffer from terminal inability to distinguish our friends from our enemies.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 26 September 2008 07:20 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think it's safe to say that the Israeli Mossad knew a lot more than we know about events surrounding 9-11. Peter Dale Scott talks about conversations he has had with CIA and State Dept officials concerning the contracting out of intelligence to foreign agencies. PDS says they neither confirm nor deny that this was the case before or after 9-11.

The Mossad actually did warn the CIA repeatedly about probable al Qa'eda attacks inside the U.S. in the months and weeks leading to 9-11. CIA officials themselves said that they, in turn, warned the Bush WhitHouse. Repeatedly. The Israelis apparently appealed to the Russians in order that Russian intel alerts would seem more credible to Bush hawks. And then warnings were dropped in their laps from world-wide intel agencies, which were also ignored by Cheney, Bush, the FBI, and so on.

Naomi Klein says she does not support conspiracy theories surrounding 9-11 and prefers to decribe it as a deliberate adherance to laissez-faire attitude by the Bush admin. That's a safe bet. But it was Hungarian-Canadian socialist Karl Polanyi who said that laissez-faire came about by selective state policies which required planning and enforcing. Therefore, laissez-faire was planned but planning was not.

[ 26 September 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
peskyfly1
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posted 26 September 2008 07:31 PM      Profile for peskyfly1     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Let's be clear. Those who equate objections to the actions of the state of Israel and 'anti-semitism' are insulting us all.
We are aware that the American intelligence estimate (ignored by the Bush administration) was entitled "Bid Laden determined to strike within U.S." and directly stated that the plan was to fly planes into skyscrapers. Other intelligence agencies also tried to warn the Bush administration. Why then is it so politically incorrect to suggest that the Israelis may have possessed details as well?
Why is it wrong to ask questions about 9-11?
Do those who oppose the questioners believe that every fact about 9-11 has been determined beyond a shadow of a doubt? Smug s.o.b.s.

From: meandering stream | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
CanadianAlien
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posted 26 September 2008 10:53 PM      Profile for CanadianAlien   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Hughes: "I guess that's how soldiers die in the trenches. This is how it must feel."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadavotes/story/2008/09/26/dion-seniors.html


From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Policywonk
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posted 27 September 2008 07:07 AM      Profile for Policywonk     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don't see how offensive the excerpt could be, certainly not the reference to Mossad amongst other intelligence services. Possibly the reference to Israeli firms breaking leases might be considered offensive, if this were previously debunked rumour.

One thing that is inaccurate is the number of Americans killed. Of 2700 or so deaths, about 500 were non-Americans, including a handful of Israelis.


From: Edmonton | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michael Hardner
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posted 27 September 2008 05:03 PM      Profile for Michael Hardner   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
taking Harper's side against Hughes is to suffer from terminal inability to distinguish our friends from our enemies.

Anybody who speaks out against promoting this dangerous and, yes, anti-Semitic theories about 9/11 is my friend in the moment that they do. Stephane Dion, Harper - any of them. I'm not going to support that kind of stupidity just because they're running against Harper.

Dion was right to dump her - clearly she lacks judgement.


From: Toronto | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 27 September 2008 05:39 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So Michael, do you accept the official 9-11 story at full face value? Many Americans do not, including a few 9-11 Commissioners themselves. Crazy George II and team are not just any idiots - the whole world thinks they are dangerous and appallingly greedy idiots. Deliberate idiots at best.

9-11 and the "war on terror" is the reason why Canadian troops are in Afghanistan today. And now four times as many Canadian soldiers have been sent home to their families in plastic bags as there were Canadians who died in the trade towers on 9-11.

Canadians are led to believe that Afghanistan - one of the poorest countries in the world, and a country where one UN official says children enjoy the fewest basic children's rights in the world - is home to the most dangerous terrorists threatening world peace and capitalism in general. Do you believe that?

[ 27 September 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Jaku
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posted 28 September 2008 01:29 PM      Profile for Jaku     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Policywonk:
I don't see how offensive the excerpt could be, certainly not the reference to Mossad amongst other intelligence services. Possibly the reference to Israeli firms breaking leases might be considered offensive, if this were previously debunked rumour.

One thing that is inaccurate is the number of Americans killed. Of 2700 or so deaths, about 500 were non-Americans, including a handful of Israelis.



I thought ohara explained this quite well

From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 02 October 2008 08:39 AM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hughes to remain in the running

quote:
Hughes said this morning she intends to run in the election and in the event she wins she would sit as an independent.

From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
aka Mycroft
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posted 02 October 2008 09:39 AM      Profile for aka Mycroft     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Fidel:
So Michael, do you accept the official 9-11 story at full face value? Many Americans do not, including a few 9-11 Commissioners themselves. Crazy George II and team are not just any idiots - the whole world thinks they are dangerous and appallingly greedy idiots. Deliberate idiots at best.

9-11 and the "war on terror" is the reason why Canadian troops are in Afghanistan today. And now four times as many Canadian soldiers have been sent home to their families in plastic bags as there were Canadians who died in the trade towers on 9-11.

Canadians are led to believe that Afghanistan - one of the poorest countries in the world, and a country where one UN official says children enjoy the fewest basic children's rights in the world - is home to the most dangerous terrorists threatening world peace and capitalism in general. Do you believe that?

[ 27 September 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]


There are certainly unanswered questions with 9/11 but I think the untold story is one of negligence and missed opportunities and not of an "inside job" or of the Israelis, Iraqis or anyone other than Al-Qaeda being involved. We know that the National Security Council received a report which explicitly said that an attack by Al Qaeda was imminent which the US ignored so is it possible there was also chatter specifying the WTC as a target? Certainly. But again, this points to negligence by the US rather than complicity.

Did the US use 911 as a pretext to attack Iraq and institute repressive national security legislation? Certainly. But just because the government exploited 911 as an opportunity to put into place its desire to attack Iraq (which David Frum outlined in his memoirs as being a motive force before 911) does not mean that the US planned 911 just as the way the US exploited Hurricane Katrina in order to privatize many services in New Orleans doesn't mean that the US caused the hurricane.


From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
blogbart
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posted 02 October 2008 09:59 AM      Profile for blogbart   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The FBI has blocked two of its veteran counterterrorism agents from going public with accusations that the CIA deliberately withheld crucial intelligence before the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks.

FBI Special Agents Mark Rossini and Douglas Miller have asked for permission to appear in an upcoming public television documentary, scheduled to air in January, on pre-9/11 rivalries between the CIA, FBI and National Security Agency.

.. Rossini and Miller, who were assigned to the CIA-run Counterterrorist Center during the run-up to the 9/11 attacks, are prepared to describe on camera how the CIA blocked them from sharing crucial intelligence with FBI headquarters - and then later pressured them not to tell the truth to investigators.


CQ Politics blog

Democratic Underground forum discussion
This is the type of omissions and distortions of public record that have lead Debra Hughes and Bev Collins to their questions about 9/11. The public record on nearly every aspect of 9/11 is tainted similarly including the collapses of the WTC 1, 2 & 7 towers. However, you don't have to even bother with the WTC collapses.

There was foreknowledge of the hijackers, their plans, their presence in the US, their relationships with foreign governments, and on and on .. much of which is omitted or distorted consistently and systematically prior to and after 9/11.

Hughes and Collins can only be lauded for their bravery in weathering the scorn of their colleagues and public by pointing out that the public record on 9/11 is not complete or clear. It is absolutely relevant that they do this because Canada needs to know the truth, so that our participation in Afghanistan, the 'war on terror', security agreements with the US, acceptance of invasion of privacy etc, are warranted and based on fact.

[ 02 October 2008: Message edited by: blogbart ]


From: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
janfromthebruce
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posted 02 October 2008 10:26 AM      Profile for janfromthebruce     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by pogge:
Hughes to remain in the running


And election's Canada has told her she is not allowed to actively campaign. Since she was removed after the deadline so there are rules that prevent to participating in certain campaigning activities.


From: cow country | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 02 October 2008 12:39 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This is the worst defamatory hatchet job I've ever seen, and it's frankly embarrassing that some babblers would call Hughes "anti-Semitic" based on no evidence whatsoever.

Here is a letter she wrote to the Winnipeg Free Press:

quote:
Six years ago, I wrote a column which examined evidence that the U.S. occupation of Afghanistan may have been motivated by the drive for oil and drug profits.

As background, I reported that the intelligence agencies of Germany, Israel and Russia all warned the CIA that the attacks of Sept. 11 were coming, a fact also reported in the London Telegraph, the Jerusalem Post, and on Fox News. I noted that the U.S. disregarded the warnings, but Israeli businesses took them seriously, and (sensibly) vacated the Twin Towers.

The Canadian Jewish Congress seems to have assumed that I am one of those who subscribe to a bizarre conspiracy theory that the world's Jews were responsible for 9-11, a ludicrous idea I have never supported. As a result of the Congress's assumption, I have been slandered as an odious anti-Semite, a claim accepted by the prime minister, by the leader of the opposition, and the nation's media. I have also been labelled an extremist nutbar who has promoted, rather than investigated, the possibility that 9-11 was an inside job. As a result, the voters of Kildonan-St. Paul have no Liberal candidate, and a narrower debate before electing their MP.

One hopes journalists will be asking two questions: 1) Who benefits from this hysteria? 2) Is it still possible for journalists to do the work of journalism, which is to "challenge the official story" in an atmosphere of fear and ridicule?


Here are letters to the editor condemning the treatment of Hughes, including this one from Dr. Peter Markesteyn, retired Chief Medical Examiner for Manitoba:

quote:
Having known Lesley Hughes professionally and personally for over 25 years, I wish to state that she has not a grain of anti-Semitism in her.

Hughe will continue to campaign:

quote:
But Hughes said she will campaign in the riding despite some confusing Elections Canada rules. She will have a website, participate in forums and door knock as long as Elections Canada gives the okay.

In the meantime, she is considering suing those who called her an anti-Semite for a 2002 column she wrote about the Sept. 11 attacks.

"I'm told I have a very strong case for slander and defamation," she said.


I would have to concur.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
coeus
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posted 02 October 2008 12:53 PM      Profile for coeus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Hardner:
Anybody who speaks out against promoting this dangerous and, yes, anti-Semitic theories about 9/11 is my friend in the moment that they do.

But from what I've read, I don't see how her theories are anti-Semetic. According to the report she said "Israeli companies". The anti-Semitism came from the media who are unable to distinguish Jews from the Israeli government or Israeli companies.. as if they are all the same.


From: Canada | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 02 October 2008 12:59 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hope she sues them all.
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
BetterRed
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posted 02 October 2008 01:04 PM      Profile for BetterRed     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by remind:
Hope she sues them all.

Agreed.
Especially Dion has to answer for that rash and slippery move.
I mean wasnt she dumped and only learned about it on TV, without getting the actual phone call from the party?


From: They change the course of history, everyday ppl like you and me | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 02 October 2008 01:56 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by aka Mycroft:

There are certainly unanswered questions with 9/11 but I think the untold story is one of negligence and missed opportunities and not of an "inside job" or of the Israelis, Iraqis or anyone other than Al-Qaeda being involved.


But Who is Osama bin Laden? Who trained and armed Al Khattab? Shamil Baseyev? And what were the origins of the conflicts in Bosnia and Chechnya and Dagestan and Khyrgystan and so on?

The U.S. government’s intimate on-going connection to al-Qaeda and a chief 9/11 plotter

quote:
But just because the government exploited 911 as an opportunity to put into place its desire to attack Iraq (which David Frum outlined in his memoirs as being a motive force before 911) does not mean that the US planned 911 just as the way the US exploited Hurricane Katrina in order to privatize many services in New Orleans doesn't mean that the US caused the hurricane.

David Frum was just a speech writer for Crazy George, and he's just as disillusioned a conservative today as many European conservatives, and even some U.S. conservatives have said they are since this neocon cabal tookover the White House. Some U.S. hawks themselves have described Bush's global war on terror as a phony war for the sake of resource and real estate grabs in the Middle East and Central Asia.

The neocons are anything but stupid. They not only had the world's most well-funded intel agency warning them about probable attacks, there were also repeated warnings from world wide intelligence agencies, and which were stepped-up in the weeks and days leading up to 9-11. They can't claim ignorance. They cannot even claim stupidity, but high-ranking neocons and shadow government officials did go out of their way obstruct and hide the truth from 9-11 Commissioners as well as international justices who tried some of the alleged 9-11 masterminds in European courts.

[ 02 October 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 02 October 2008 02:24 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think 9/11 conspiracy theorists are in need of sympathy and emotional support. I include those who post on babble.

Having said that, I'm going to request - without much hope of success - that babblers take their conspiracy theories to other threads (God knows there are enough of them). This thread is about the shameless political persecution and defamation of Lesley Hughes - regardless of whether her views about 9/11 are brilliant or insipidly stupid.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 02 October 2008 02:46 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
I think 9/11 conspiracy theorists are in need of sympathy and emotional support. I include those who post on babble.

That's entirely your opinion, and you're welcome to it, unionist. And you can keep the condescending remarks to yourself, thanks. Stephane Dion is just a Liberal figurehead, and his party will be relegated to phony opposition to the conservatives, once again. Nobody cares about that party any more, and especially not the Vancouver MacIntyres. Liberals are phony, and so is the totally phony-baloney war on terror one huge international false flage operation.

Blowback?

After five years of torture at Gitmo Bay, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed says, ~"I'm just a patsy!"

We know who the real perps are.

Watergate? IranContragate? Iraqgate? Hell, no, it's Osamagate! That, too, was a coverup by both plutocratic parties running the show in the USsA.

Republicans accuse Clinton Admin of aiding and abetting militant Islam wing of the CIA

[ 02 October 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
blogbart
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posted 02 October 2008 03:42 PM      Profile for blogbart   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Unionist: You may wish to read her original 2002 article and try to figure out why she apologized and what creeps like Dion represent for Canada.

quote:
Then Unionist said: I'm going to request - without much hope of success - that babblers take their conspiracy theories to other threads (God knows there are enough of them). This thread is about the shameless political persecution and defamation of Lesley Hughes - regardless of whether her views about 9/11 are brilliant or insipidly stupid.

You asked what she apologized for did you not? You also say it is about "shameless political persecution and defamation".

Well, you can't just tease out the alleged (and unsupported) anti-semitic element of Hughes' comments and ignore the context in which they were made. The context is what you call "9/11 conspiracy" .. but what she, and those of us Babblers supporting her, would simply call questions and doubts of the official conspiracy theory. It is clear that she was dumped because of this context.

And, frankly, with respect, if you want to call Dion a "creep" for dumping her, you may as well include yourself in that category too. I don't think you or Dion are creeps though but just unwilling to ask some questions.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
martin dufresne
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posted 02 October 2008 03:51 PM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
We have 'creeps' but do we have 'bloods'?
From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
blogbart
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posted 02 October 2008 04:28 PM      Profile for blogbart   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
lol

btw, i hope Hughes sues all of them too.


From: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 02 October 2008 04:28 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I would request the 9/11 scholars and experts to go post in another thread. This is about the election, Dion, and the dumping of Lesley Hughes.

Please don't tell me I have to share the 9/11 obsessional paranoia in order to support Lesley Hughes. That's a good way to ensure that no one will support her.

I fully support Lesley Hughes - including her freedom of conscience and her right to speculate on 9/11 conspiracies - without her being demonized as an anti-Semite or anything else.

And please don't kid yourselves. She was dumped because she mentioned:

ISRAEL

-- not because of her peculiar notions about 9/11 or any non-existent attack on Jews.

The real anti-Semites are those who identify the Jewish people with the crimes of the state of Israel. They are the ones that prevailed upon Dion to dump Lesley Hughes. The 9/11 stuff is a diversion.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 02 October 2008 04:36 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Perhaps if you'd like people to stop diverting the thread with discussion about the validity of 9-11 conspiracy theories, you should stop saying that people who believe them are suffering from "obsessive paranoia" and such.

It's not really fair to demand that other people stop talking about the validity of 9-11 conspiracy theories when you do it yourself.

I know you're trying to make the point that you don't have to agree with her to support her, but dropping insulting adjectives like that into your posts will guarantee that you will continue the off-topic debate.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 02 October 2008 04:40 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ok, Michelle, you're right and I apologize.

Now please ask posters here to stop diverting the discussion.

This damned discussion has seen: 1) people defaming Lesley Hughes as an anti-Semite; 2) people reviving the 9/11 stuff. I find it a little frustrating, so I lose my cool.

I thought I made it very clear that I defend her right - and everyone's right - to speculate about 9/11 without being persecuted. I do, however, have my own views about those who dedicate their lives to the pursuit of the notion that the U.S. is all-powerful.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 02 October 2008 07:31 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I agree with Michelle. And I might add that if there was excessive paranoia expressed in these last few posts, it concerns a tiny Middle Eastern desert nation that only exists since 1948 because it was and continues to be a front line nation in the war on democracy. And if the USsA does happen to gain alternate footholds militarily in Iraq and Afghanistan or even a dismembered Pakistan, then Israelis will most certainly be left to their own devices by the vicious empire. And Israel's eternal enemies have been armed to the eye teeth by alleged allies for a long time.
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
blogbart
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posted 02 October 2008 08:26 PM      Profile for blogbart   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Unionist, it wasn't only Lesley Hughes comments about Israel that got Hughes dumped, it was her specific reference to an Israeli business having advance warning of WTC attacks:

quote:
"Israeli businesses, which had offices in the Towers, vacated the premises a week before the attacks, breaking their lease to do it."

Its unfortunate Hughes made this statement because its not supported by the evidence. One of the many things to avoid in this minefield of an issue.

Further though, there was more to her being dropped than that comment. It was about her entire take on 9/11. As an example of the thing the Dion and the Libs seek to avoid aligning themselves, take the National Post's caustic editorial

quote:
Stéphane Dion was right to jettison Lesley Hughes, the Liberal candidate in the Winnipeg riding of Kildonan-St. Paul. Her poisonous views have no place in a major Canadian party.

Ms. Hughes, a former CBC radio host who until recently edited the socialist magazine Canadian Dimension, is sympathetic to the so-called 9/11 Truth Movement.

Ms. Hughes then went on to repeat a variation of the Internet canard that legions of Jews avoided death in the Twin Towers because the Mossad knew the attacks were coming and warned them: “Israeli businesses, which had offices in the Towers, vacated the premises a week before the attacks, breaking their lease to do it.”


This hit piece from NP also brought Bev Collins into the matter:

quote:
Even more damning was Collins’ participation in a creepy 2007 9/11 “truth” conference in Vancouver,..

Yet unlike Stéphane Dion, NDP leader Jack Layton has so far refused to cleanse his candidate ranks of a 9/11 conspiracy theorist.

If Mr. Layton wants to convince Canadians that the NDP is a truly mainstream party, he must strike Bev Collins from his candidate list.


I give Jack Layton full marks for his support of Bev Collins. In fact, I am aware of scores of people who may be changing their vote to NDP as a result.

[Edited by: blogbart to add ]

The Cons are asking for Collins dismissal:

quote:
Ottawa NDP continue to flirt with fringe
September 30, 2008

Jack Layton must renounce past links to 9/11 conspiracy movement and fire his candidate

Jack Layton and the Ottawa NDP must immediately renounce their links to the repugnant extremism of the so-called “9/11 Truth” conspiracy movement and fire candidate Bev Collins for her radical views, Conservative candidate James Moore said today.

Jack Layton is also a self-professed ‘friend’ of notorious 9/11 conspiracy theorist Barrie Zwicker, a self-styled documentary filmmaker who continues to advance the theory that the United States government was complicit in the 9/11 terrorist attacks.


Conservative site

[ 02 October 2008: Message edited by: blogbart ]

[ 02 October 2008: Message edited by: blogbart ]


From: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 02 October 2008 08:38 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
ALL FOUR big money Liberal and Conservative parties in the U.S. and Canada support the phony war on terror.

And very few warmongering plutocrats in Canada or the U.S. dare question the validity of the reasons for military occupations in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Canadian Michel Chossudovsky talks about 9-11 and the "American Inquisition":

quote:
The legitimacy of the inquisition is not questioned. The "Global War on Terrorism" justifies a mammoth defense budget at the expense of health, education, and virtually every single category of (civilian) public expenditure.

The "Global War on Terrorism" requires "going after" the terrorists, using advanced weapons systems. It upholds a preemptive religious-like crusade against evil, which serves to obscure the real objectives of military action.

The lies underlying 9/11 are known and documented. The American people's acceptance of this crusade against evil is not based on any rational understanding or analysis of the facts.

America's inquisition is used to extend America's sphere of influence and justify military intervention, as part of an international campaign against "Islamic terrorists". Its ultimate objective, which is never mentioned in press reports, is territorial conquest and control over strategic resources.



From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 02 October 2008 08:44 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Pffft, the CPC are only worried that she might beat out Dickie Harris and she must be close ort hey would not be screaming from a position that is legless considering they believe: 'crime is linked to "immigration" and that in order to prevent these "immigrants" from being even more heinious criminals we need to start locking them up at 14'.

I was actually quite disappointed that this connection was not made in the leader's debates. As it is quite obvious that these life sentences for the 14 year olds committing "serious" crimes is actually a racially based policy.


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 02 October 2008 08:54 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Collins and Hughes have ovarios. Big ones.

Stephane Harper and Steven Dion radiate impotence. Weak and ineffective leaders propped up by big money.

And I must admit I was surprised by Liz May's comments on the phony war in Afghanistan. We need more women in Ottawa for sure.

quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
I do, however, have my own views about those who dedicate their lives to the pursuit of the notion that the U.S. is all-powerful.

If you do have the answers, unionist, then there are several 9-11 Commission panelists and god knows how many other people around the world will want to hear from you. Because apparently neocons and embedded shadow gov officials were so powerful as to stymie a public enquiry, and 9-11 panelists and German high court justices not powerful enough to overrule U.S. "national security." Americans and Canadians have been told by several people involved that there were legitimate questions which went unanswered by the slip-shod 9-11 investigation leading to a highly questionable report. Justice delayed is justice denied. Millions of Canadians and Americans just want to know the truth, and that the reason for a global war on terror has more merit and legal substance than just the confession of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, tortured out of him after five years in an American military gulag. KSM is a mysterious man rumored to have held out under torture longer than any other alleged members of "al Qa'eda" held illegally at Guantanamo. Do you believe it, unionist? They will likely do a Jack Ruby on him, and then it really won't matter. False flag op complete and check mate.

[ 02 October 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 27 October 2008 10:45 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
The real anti-Semites are those who identify the Jewish people with the crimes of the state of Israel.

Then what do you call your friend Tom Mulcair:
quote:
Thomas Mulcair revealed one reason why he is very supportive of the Jewish people and of the State of Israel.

"My wife, Catherine Pinhas, born in France and whose family is of Turkish origin, is a descendant of the Sephardic Jews expelled from Spain in 1492. When we think about 1492, we think of Christopher Columbus and his arrival in America. But for Sephardic Jews, 1492 refers to their expulsion from Spain by the Catholic Monarchs. One of the most graceful acts I've seen in politics in my lifetime occurred in 1992 when King Juan Carlos I of Spain went to ask forgiveness from the Jews in a synagogue in Madrid. My wife's parents are Holocaust survivors. Their story is part of my daily life. That is why I am an ardent supporter of all the bodies and all the circumstances of Israel."



From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 27 October 2008 10:58 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don't know, Wilf. You tell me what that last sentence means. And I don't mean the opening sentence by the CJN reporter. I mean the direct quote from Mulcair (which looks to me rather like a garbled sentence, doesn't it?).

Mulcair is entitled to his private opinions. If he publicly supports the crimes of the Israeli state, I will condemn him as a false friend of the Jews (besides whatever other terms come to mind at the time).

What about you?


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 27 October 2008 11:06 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The real anti-Semites are those who identify the Jewish people with the crimes of the state of Israel

But doesn't this also apply to 9-11 perpetrators? If we accept the American inquisition that al Qaida is solely responsible, then doesn't that contribute to U.S. justification for holy old jihad against an unseen enemy in far away lands rich in energy potential and possessing strategic value to the U.S. military?


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 27 October 2008 11:10 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
You tell me what that last sentence means.

"C’est pourquoi je suis un ardent supporter de toutes les instances et de toutes les circonstances d’Israël.” My translation may be inadequate. You tell me.
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
If he publicly supports the crimes of the Israeli state, I will condemn him as a false friend of the Jews (besides whatever other terms come to mind at the time).

What about you?



Not being Jewish, I would not presume to say who is a true friend or false friend of the Jews.

But I see no heroes in the pretty well unbroken tragedy of the Middle East. Whether Rabin might have become the exception we will, unfortunately, never know. It would be nice to think there was, and is, some hope. Not this year, likely.


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 27 October 2008 12:06 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
9/11 And "War On Terror" Questioned In Japan's Parliament again!

quote:
On October 22, 2008, Yukihisa Fujita, Congressman for the Democratic Party of Japan made a 20 minute speech on the floor of the Japanese Diet or House of Representatives. For the third time this year he directly questioned the official version of 9/11.

At the same time he called on the government to stop all support for the US-led military operations. After presenting reports of heavy civilian and military losses in Iraq and Afghanistan he went on to describe the Kucinich impeachment debate in US-Congress and its wide support by representatives of the House.


Yay Kucinich!


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 27 October 2008 12:21 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Wilf Day:
"C’est pourquoi je suis un ardent supporter de toutes les instances et de toutes les circonstances d’Israël.” My translation may be inadequate. You tell me.

Mulcair supports Israel. He always has. I think he's dead wrong. But he also is a smart politician. He supports a "two-state solution", says he supports the rights of all to live in peace and enjoy their national rights, etc. All in all, his position sucks. But the only close-to-decent words I've heard on the subject from the federal NDP have been from Svend Robinson (no longer around) and Alexa McDonough (during the invasion of Lebanon, for example). Otherwise, there's nothing much to distinguish any of them.

Look, what can I say? I voted for Mulcair, twice, because he took an unabashed stand on a few issues, including Afghanistan. I prefer a Canadian politician who says "withdraw from Afghanistan" and "I love Israel" to the opposite. Pretty feeble, I know, but I don't want to spoil my ballot.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 27 October 2008 12:25 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
How does every second thread turn into a discussion about a tiny Middle Eastern frontline state in the colder war on democracy? They bring up 9-11 and the phony war on terror surrounding it, and then refuse to discuss it!

[ 27 October 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 27 October 2008 01:38 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Jonathan Kay on the humbling frustrations of debating 9/11 "Truthers" Jonathan Kay knows what's up about 9-11. He's a writer for the Irrational Ghost, and he finds it a lot easier to write "Whatever Crazy George's team said goes, called it -stamped it" instead of doing some actual investigative news journalism himself. Never mentions the Pilots for 9-11 Truth, nor the U.S. Military officers for 9-11 Truth. No mention of the 9-11 Commission whistle blowers calling it a sham. Whatever our American friends and Crazy George the Second say must be considered gospel. Case closed!!
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 06 November 2008 10:48 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Canadian Dimension defends their staffer, Lesley Hughes:

Hughesgate - The Ugly Truth

quote:
Does it surprise us that some blogger deliberately distorted a column Lesley Hughes wrote in 2002 in his zealous efforts to embarrass her by proving that she is an anti-Semite? Hardly. Bloggers can lie. Some are desperate to be noticed. And they are unaccountable to any publication or organization. ...

Does it surprise us that my-Israel-right-or-wrong organizations like the B’nai Brith and the Canadian Jewish Congress would shout “anti-Semite” based on a blogger’s lying account? Hardly. When it comes to Israel, their first priority is to silence any opposition — or, in Lesley’s case, any questioning — by acts of intimidation and ridicule. Surely it is obvious by now that confusing criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism only allows the political Right to silence legitimate questions about Israel’s place in the crumbling imperial order. ...

What did she actually write in her newspaper column back in 2002? She reported a story circulated in five mainstream publications and networks: Fox News, the Telegraph (U.K.), Agence France-Presse, the Israeli daily Haaretz, the Jerusalem Post and the German newspaper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung. The story claimed that Mossad had warned the U.S. government, including the CIA, that an attack on the Twin Towers was imminent; that it had also warned Israel nationals with offices in the Towers. Hughes commented that unfortunately they were the only ones to take these warnings seriously as they vacated the premises.

The blogger who originally found the Hughes column neglected to report that she was merely passing on this account. Instead, he made it appear that it was her invention or one she had adopted from so-called conspiracy theorists. From this emerged all the name-calling that has likely ruined the reputation of a thoughtful and respectful journalist, someone who has spent the better part of her life writing and standing up for the rights of the downtrodden — a journalist and activist who has vehemently defended freedom of speech for others, and now finds it is lacking to defend herself.



From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 06 November 2008 11:10 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'd still like to know how a columnist for a far left magazine like Canadian Dimensions ended up running as a candidate for the rightwing Liberal Party? Maybe she can write an article for the next issue of CD telling us all about how incredibly progressive Paul Martin was as Finance Minister.
From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Lord Palmerston
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posted 06 November 2008 11:11 AM      Profile for Lord Palmerston     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I've wondered why a radical journalist would run for the Libs as well.
From: Toronto | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 06 November 2008 11:27 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
from unionist's link:

quote:
The story claimed that Mossad had warned the U.S. government, including the CIA, that an attack on the Twin Towers was imminent; that it had also warned Israel nationals with offices in the Towers. Hughes commented that unfortunately they were the only ones to take these warnings seriously as they vacated the premises.

I've read similar elsewhere, and now I can't find it. But it said the Israeli's gave warnings to the CIA, which were said to deliver those warnings to the Bush WhiteHouse. They were ignored. The Israeli's claimed to have then appealed to the Russians to send warnings, hoping that country would add to the credibility of the warnings. Then, warnings were delivered from intel agencies from around the world. Still no response from the White House. The NSA and CIA have very many bloggers and internet spooks in their hire, too.

This wouldnt be the first time that the CIA-NSA ignored, or were told to stand down, while foreign operatives and assassins were sent to do dirty work on U.S. soil. They knew Pinochet's DINA agents were crawling all thru Washington leading up to Orlando Letelier's murder. Ruthless motherfuckers they are.

And boo-hiss to Ken Dryden

[ 06 November 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 06 November 2008 12:08 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Palmerston:
I've wondered why a radical journalist would run for the Libs as well.

Why don't you write to her and ask? The editorial says she will have to answer for this decision herself.

But my purpose in opening this thread was to deplore the lynch-mob mentality against a progressive journalist. I would have done the same had she been a Conservative candidate. What I find disturbing in some of the posts here is the willingness of some to weigh her Liberal candidacy in the balance when deciding if she is an anti-Semite or not. I find that truly frightening - don't you?


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 06 November 2008 12:21 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
They think they can scare away anybody with the simple smear of anti-semitism. This is bigger than the Liberal Party. That party is all about not bucking our imperial masters, and certainly their's is not to question the American inquisition surrounding 9-11. The bad brown people did it, and that's all the world needs to know for the purpose of carrying on with a phony war on terror. Not now John we've got to get on with the film show!!
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
janfromthebruce
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posted 06 November 2008 01:57 PM      Profile for janfromthebruce     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
You’ve left out the fluoride-zombie public, whose mindless acquiescence to this sort of ‘journalism’ is as much to blame as the action of any right-wing christo-fascist.

That right-wing christo-fascist would be Cherniak on Politics and since after this election (where the horse he backed lost big time - Dion) said he lost interest in blogging.

He his seal to smear NDP candidates he ended up inadvertently taking out Lesley Hughes a lib candidate.


From: cow country | Registered: Apr 2007  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 06 November 2008 03:33 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Here's a new one Lawyers for 9/11 Truth

quote:
Why Lawyers for 9/11 Truth?

Lawyers are trained to value the Constitution and the rule of law.

We are trained to examine evidence and to spot cover-ups or inconsistencies in the evidence and bias in witnesses or decision-makers.

Attorneys are also experts in weighing conflicting evidence.

For all of the above reasons, many lawyers have concluded that the 9/11 Commission and other government examinations were wholly inadequate, and did not follow proper rules of evidence or procedure.

We are demanding an end to the 9/11 cover-up, and a full investigation by unbiased people with subpoena power . . . and the courage to demand that the Constitution and rule of law are followed, and all guilty persons held accountable for their actions.



From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
rabble-rouser
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posted 08 November 2008 02:40 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
9/11: ATTACK ON THE PENTAGON - Official Release

http://investigate911.se/9-11ATTACKONTHEPENTAGON-OfficialRelease.html

quote:
Pilots For 9/11 Truth brings you analysis never seen before regarding the Attack On The Pentagon. Highly technical analysis presented in a way that the layman will appreciate and understand. A 757 reported to have caused the damage at the Pentagon on September 11, 2001 is analyzed based on topography, obstacles, flight data, physics, and witness statements

Where does "Popular Mechanics"(long-time CIA front) stand now?


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 08 November 2008 04:43 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
For the second time, can't this thread be about Lesley Hughes and phoney charges of anti-semitism? There are plenty of open 9/11 conspiracy threads, like this one, if you're tired of talking about Lesley Hughes.
From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
rabble-rouser
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posted 08 November 2008 01:15 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Perhaps you should put in a request to yourself for a change of thread title to read:

Party hardliners crack down on dissenting member(and any rif raf daring to discuss Hughes' views on 9/11 will be dealt with!)

Hughes and Dion have been blackballed by Liberal Party brass. What's to discuss about that old line party and their undemocratic methods?

[ 09 November 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 09 November 2008 01:42 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:

What I find disturbing in some of the posts here is the willingness of some to weigh her Liberal candidacy in the balance when deciding if she is an anti-Semite or not. I find that truly frightening - don't you?

But at the same time, you refuse to entertain any notion that Leslie Hughes may actually have tapped into a news story worthy of an investigative news journalists' pursuit of the truth.

This is a subsidiary of an Israeli telecommunications company operating in the U.S. They sell high tech spying equipment to US law enforcement agencies for purposes of doing sophisticated wiretaps. No more alligator clips and some creepy guy on a phone poll outside, or even "Joe Turner" sneaking into a Bell central office switching centre to pull a caper. CIA-NSA spooks can now setup in any building in the country, and with a few keystrokes on a PC listen in to any phone conversation any where any time.

I don't know if Leslie Hughes mentions this company, but this is real scary stuff, unionist. "Conspiracy theorists" as you refer to thousands of people demanding and working pretty hard to force a legitimate enquiry, have claimed that 9-11 terrorists enjoyed intelligence contacts inside the U.S. leading up to 9-11. That was entirely feasible. The 9-11 Commish acknowledged that the apparently well organized terrorists had accessed security codes for communication for several U.S. state departments as well as Airforce One. That's amazing considering that no one U.S. government official had access to more than one of those classified departmental security codes at any given time. The countries Israel and Pakistan had classified status wrt the 9-11 investigation and but was never publicized until 9-11 truthers uncovered that themselves. Comverse Infosys.

amdocs, another telecom company operating in the U.S. and with ties to the Israeli government, does the billing for over 90 percent of telephone companies in the U.S. and more worldwide. It is impossible to make a telephone call and not leave a record of it with amdoc. Telephone call records of the type amdocs produces were suspected of falling into the hands of foreign governments, specifically Israel, in the recent past. I don't care what anyone says, those are deregulation induced giant conflicts of interest, and it smells pretyy bad even without mentioning 9-11.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 09 November 2008 03:43 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Long thread.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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