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Author Topic: End of the two-state solution
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 28 July 2008 06:18 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Some must never forget, while others, clearly, must not be allowed to remember. Far from mere hypocrisy, this attitude perfectly expresses the Israeli people's mistaken belief that they can find the security they need at the expense of the Palestinians, or that one people's right can be secured at the cost of another's.

Little wonder such an approach has not delivered peace. The only way to end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is to end the denial of rights that fuels it, and to ensure that both peoples' rights are equally protected.


quote:
...the conflict between Zionism and the Palestinians is – and has always been --– driven by the notion that hundreds of years of cultural heterogeneity and plurality could be negated overnight by the creation of a state with a single cultural and religious identity.

It hardly matters that that identity was never as homogeneous as Zionists like to claim: witness Israel's methodical de-Arabisation of its Mizrahi (Arab-Jewish) population in the 1950s and 1960s, or the perennial debate over "who is a Jew" – an unseemly question that in Israel is not merely a matter of arcane theological exegesis but tied directly to matters of citizenship, nationality, and law.


web page

It's time to end the delusional project that has done nothing but cause misery in Palestine and conflict in the rest of the region. Like the author says:

quote:
Negation, denial and imprisonment have run their course. The future should be built on affirmation, cooperation, and the constitution of a democratic and secular state that guarantees the rights of Israelis and Palestinians, of Jews, Muslims, and Christians alike.

From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4140

posted 28 July 2008 07:16 PM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That's a nice, liberal piece about what ought to happen. However, I cannot help but notice that the same page of the Guardian makes reference to two "related" stories from 2007: one, that Israel is trying to lure Soviet Jews to move from Germany, presumably to continue the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians and the non-stop construction of more settlements; two, that Israeli Ministers were discussing retaliation for the impudent British who dared to raise the issue of a boycott of Israel in response to the horrific and ongoing Israeli occupation.

The article is missing a clear call to boycott Israel. That's what was done with the previous Apartheid state. And it worked.


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 28 July 2008 08:45 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I can't argue with that.

On the subject of boycotting Israel, I wonder how many of us, without our knowledge, have blood oozing out of our computers.

quote:
In an extravagant ceremony that featured acrobats, drummers, a children's choir, and speeches by Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert (in person) and the two top executives of chipmaker Intel Corp. (on giant video screens), the company this month dedicated a new, state-of-the-art chip-manufacturing plant in the south-central Israeli town of Kiryat Gat.


...Sixty years ago, there was no Kiryat Gat. The land it now occupies was divided between two Palestinian villages, al-Faluja and 'Iraq al-Manshiya. While the area is well within the Green Line, Israel's 1949-67 border, its history is in one way unique: Israeli forces never captured it during the 1948-49 war. Egyptian forces occupied it in late May 1948, and although later Israeli counter-offensives broke up their front and laid siege to the two villages -- known at the time as the "Faluja pocket" -- the 4,000 Egyptian troops deployed there (including a young officer named Gamal Abdel Nasser, soon to become president of his country) held out until Egypt and Israel agreed to an armistice on 24 February 1949.

That's when the Nakba befell al-Faluja and 'Iraq al-Manshiya.*



From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
rabble-rouser
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posted 28 July 2008 10:20 PM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
(from the same article) Meanwhile, the local authorities in Kiryat Gat are focused on preventing yet another kind of "disaster," as they put it: Jewish girls taking up with Bedouin boys. So common has this phenomenon become that the municipality last year convened an "emergency" conference to address it. The upshot: a program run by the municipal welfare department, with support from the police, that sends speakers into public school classrooms to warn girls about the dangers they face from Arab boys. The curriculum even includes a 10-minute video entitled "Sleeping with the Enemy."

It looks like "purity of arms" is not the only sort of purity the Israelis are concerned about.


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
lwyman
recent-rabble-rouser
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posted 29 July 2008 05:13 AM      Profile for lwyman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I just wanted spread the word about a really interesting blog called Canada’s Israel. It Goes beyond the politics of the Middle East and celebrates the similarities and differences between our country and theirs. There’s lots of cool info about events happening across Canada and neat facts about Israeli culture. Check it out at: http://www.canadasisrael.ca/
From: Toronto | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
Moderator
Babbler # 1130

posted 29 July 2008 05:46 AM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
lwyman that's twice you've posted that cheery little fluff piece in a thread without the remotest evidence of any regard for the context within which you are posting.

Do you actually read these threads? Do you have any comment on what other posters are saying?


From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 29 July 2008 06:05 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Canada's Israel? In the possessive? Good grief!
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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Babbler # 4140

posted 29 July 2008 07:13 AM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Regarding the fluff piece: There's a link to the terroristic JDL right at the top of the page ... which is rather a dead giveaway that it does NOT go beyond the politics of apartheid Israel.

As a sidebar, it is perhaps noteworthy that all this ultra Zionism is depicted as a kind of flag-waving Canadian nationalism on the site. And that's an important bit of propaganda to get out. The trick is to convince Canadians that frothing support for the state of Israel is just an "enriched" version of Canadian nationalism and not at all the cause of a harmfully divided loyalty.


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Stockholm
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posted 29 July 2008 07:19 AM      Profile for Stockholm     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Especially since Rene Levesque to give speeches comparing Quebecers battle for their own country to Jews wanting their own country and he frequently drew parallels between Zionism and Quebec nationalism.
From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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Babbler # 4140

posted 29 July 2008 07:27 AM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wow. That was out of the extreme right field. Were you trying to slag the late premier of Quebec or troll this thread or substantiate the seamless connection between Canadian nationalism and Zionism?

Or all three perhaps?

Anything about the OTHER two states (as in the two state "solution") ?


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
al-Qa'bong
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3807

posted 29 July 2008 10:52 AM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Especially since Rene Levesque to give speeches comparing Quebecers battle for their own country to Jews wanting their own country and he frequently drew parallels between Zionism and Quebec nationalism.

I wonder what Mordechai Richler had to say about that (if it's even true).

[ 29 July 2008: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Joel_Goldenberg
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5647

posted 29 July 2008 11:15 AM      Profile for Joel_Goldenberg        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by al-Qa'bong:

I wonder what Mordechai Richler had to say about that (if it's even true).

[ 29 July 2008: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]


It is true, at least in the case of just about any PQ member who would speak to the Jewish community- I frequently heard those references myself. I would actually wait for it, because it was so predictable.


From: Montreal | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Doug
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 44

posted 29 July 2008 08:29 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by remind:
Canada's Israel? In the possessive? Good grief!

It's a thought. Dispossess both the Israelis and the Palestinians. We need a new winter vacation spot.


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged

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