[ 17 July 2006: Message edited by: Jimmy Brogan ]

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The officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, say the five were killed at their home in the town of Aitaroun, which abuts the border.

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Air strike kills 8 Lebanese-Canadians

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Last Updated Sun, 16 Jul 2006 14:30:49 EDT
CBC News

Eight Canadians were killed on Sunday in an Israeli air raid that hit a Lebanese town on the border with Israel, Ottawa says.

Six other Canadians were in critical condition after the strike in the town of Aitaroun, said Canadian Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay.

The victims were not immediately identified.

Lebanese TV reports said some of the victims were from the same family and had come from Canada to spend the summer holidays in the town.

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Seriously, if there is a definition to the term 'crime of war' - killing defenseless civilians in relatiation for the acts of people they have never met and whose actions occur in a theatre entirely removed from the daily lives of most Lebanese - this, most certainly, is it.

ETA:

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All eight were from Montreal and are members of the same family, CanWest has learned. Four of those killed were children between ages one and eight. Source

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[ 16 July 2006: Message edited by: M. Spector ]

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Is "our" government still calling the Israeli attacks a "measured response"?

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Originally posted by Odin:

Cynicism has led me to believe that Harper's maladministration views Israelis' lives (or in this case only 1, that of the soldier kidnapped) as worth more than hundreds of innocent Lebanese.

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You are not being cynical enough. If Harper gave a damn about Israeli lives, he would take stands which favour a just peace. He cares about implementing his reactionary domestic agenda, which requires integration with U.S. policy as one of its conditions. That's why he has been even more reptilian than Bush and Blair in his statements on the current situation, with his calls for a "measured response".

The only "measured response" to Harper is to start measuring him.

What would you have us do? Not talk about the fact that Israeli bombs have killed a bunch of Canadians, among them children?

No. Talking about the bald faced facts is supporting one side or the other. What happens Jimmy when the fact support a position all by themselves?

There is no need for me to spin this death. It is there, all you have to do is look at it.

Sorry that you can't find in yourself the courage to do even that.

[ 16 July 2006: Message edited by: Cueball ]

an israeli pilot pushed a button that released a bomb that killed a bunch of canadians, including children. he acted under orders from a military following a combat plan approved by the israeli cabinet. essentially then, the israeli government should be held accountable for their deaths.

if anyone else did something like this, it would be murder of the most extreme caliber, words like "atrocity" would be thrown around instead of "tragedy". personally, i'm no israel hater, i've often supported israel's right to defend itself, but this is just barbarism, in that, they're basically just murdering people at this point.

[ 16 July 2006: Message edited by: island empire ]

The narrow spin was Cueball's pathetic jab at the NDP, his pet hobby-horse, and he's a vulture for using the deaths of innocents to advance his hobby-horse agenda.

The Israeli atrocity speaks for itself.

[ 16 July 2006: Message edited by: Jimmy Brogan ]

It is the moral duty of all Canadians to condemn what our government has done.

The Liberal Party has sunk into its preferred amoral abyss and if they've said anything, I haven't seen it. The Bloc has issued some ridiculous appeal for "humanitarian aid" for the Palestinians in Gaza -- overlooking the obvious and immediate bandaid of stopping the bombing and killing.

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overlooking the obvious and immediate bandaid of stopping the bombing and killing.

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Originally posted by Jimmy Brogan:
The narrow spin was Cueball's pathetic jab at the NDP, his pet hobby-horse, and he's a vulture for using the deaths of innocents to advance his hobby-horse agenda.

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Originally posted by Stockholm:
No, because Israel needs to defend itself against the constant threat of attack by hostile forces. There is no reason for there to be any missiles at all in southern Lebanon other than to use as offensive weapons. If there were no missiles in Lebanon and no Hezbolla presense, there would be no reason for Israel to ever attack.

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Perhaps you could explain why Israel needs nuclear weapons?

Here's the thing about peace and disarmament. It has to be for both -- for the people you like, and the ones you hate. Otherwise it doesn't work.

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No, because Israel needs to defend itself against the constant threat of attack by hostile forces.

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That is so much bullshit. Israel is the aggressor as is clear, here, attacking civilians.

Robert Fisk:

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It will be called the massacre of Marwaheen. All the civilians killed by the Israelis had been ordered to abandon their homes in the border village by the Israelis themselves a few hours earlier. Leave, they were told by loudspeaker; and leave they did, 20 of them in a convoy of civilian cars. That's when the Israeli jets arrived to bomb them, killing 20 Lebanese, at least nine of them children. The local fire brigade could not put out the fires as they all burned alive in the inferno. Another "terrorist" target had been eliminated.

Source

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The Israelis are not protecting themselves. They are on a murderous rampage. More, the government of Lebanon was pro-West and democratic and most Lebanese did not like the prescense of Hezbolah but were powerless to act. Israel has deliberatly and cruely attacked a freindly but weak friend. This is supported by a column in Today's Torono Star.

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"The Lebanese government can't control Hezbollah," she scoffed, "If it could, we wouldn't be having this conversation."

http://shorterlink.com/?ZIXH2T

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That conversation was between a Canadian academic and an Israeli government lawyer and that was two years ago.

The Israeli action today, which is targetting civilians, demonstrates why Israel ought to be made a pariah state.

You think everyone should be defenseless in the mid-east but the hostile forces.

[ 16 July 2006: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]

Fisk article

There is never any way to accept deaths of innocent civillians whether they be a family of Canadians in Lebanon, civillians sitting in their apartments whether they be in Lebannon or Northern Israel or a train mechanic in Haifa.

But after reading these paragraphs I have to wonder what is really going on. Could it be as Fisk rights that the response of Israel was misjudged?

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Only now, however, is a truer picture emerging of the battle for southern Lebanon and it is a fascinating, frightening tale. The original border crossing, the capture of the two soldiers and the killing of three others was planned, according to Hassan Nasrallah, the Hizbollah leader who escaped assassination by the Israelis on Friday evening, more than five months ago. And Friday's missile attack on the Israeli gunboat was not the last-minute inspiration of a Hizbollah member who just happened to see the warship.

It now appears clear that the Hizbollah leadership - Nasrallah used to be the organisation's military commander in southern Lebanon - thought carefully through the effects of their border crossing, relying on the cruelty of Israel's response to quell any criticism of their action within Lebanon. They were right in their planning. The Israeli retaliation was even crueller than some Hizbollah leaders imagined, and the Lebanese quickly silenced all criticism of the guerrilla movement.

Hizbollah had presumed the Israelis would cross into Lebanon after the capture of the two soldiers and they blew up the first Israeli Merkava tank when it was only 35 feet inside the country. All four Israeli crewmen were killed and the Israeli army moved no further forward. The long-range Iranian-made missiles which later exploded on Haifa had been preceded only a few weeks ago by a pilotless Hizbollah drone aircraft which surveyed northern Israel and then returned to land in eastern Lebanon after taking photographs during its flight. These pictures not only suggested a flight path for Hizbollah's rockets to Haifa; they also identified Israel's top-secret military air traffic control centre in Miron.

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One wonders if all of this could have been prevented.

[ 16 July 2006: Message edited by: miles ]

Ottawa was working with other countries who were trying to get their citizens out of harm's way. Commercial ships were to be hired and sent to the eastern Mediterranean, Mc Kay said.

"We are securing these vessels. They will be in the region as soon as humanly possible," he told CBC Newsworld.

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and the NDP is not a sacred cow on this site

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The reason I point it out is because so often people who criticize the NDP are berated as trolls, or it's considered okay to attack them for doing so.

Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper on Saturday described the Israeli attacks as justified and measured. Since taking power in February he has shifted Ottawa's stance on the Middle East from one of relative neutrality to a firmly pro-Israel position.

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Originally posted by Richard MacKinnon:

"It's everyone's hope, of course, that these attacks from all sectors are going to cease ... what we do know is there's an enormous need to to support and protect civilians and that's been our focus," Mr MacKay said, adding that it was "very possible" he might visit the region soon.

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Very good. Mr. MacKay should visit the region soon, along with Punch Pat and Judy, oh and Steve and Bill, and they should start the shuttle diplomacy between Beirut, Haifa, Tel Aviv and Gaza City. God speed and safe trip!

[ 16 July 2006: Message edited by: unionist ]

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Harper couldn't care less -- along with Stockwell Day, he is an evangelical who will support Israel unconditionally upto armageddon.

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...along with Stockwell Day, (Harper) is an evangelical who will support Israel unconditionally upto Armageddon.

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Originally posted by Stockholm:
No, because Israel needs to defend itself against the constant threat of attack by hostile forces.

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Now I'm not so ambiguous. How many people have to die so Israel can make it's point, whatever the fuck that point might be?

Canadians have been killed - I hope to hell our government will wake the fuck up.

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Originally posted by Jimmy Brogan:
I guess I need to talk a little slower.

The narrow spin was Cueball's pathetic jab at the NDP, his pet hobby-horse, and he's a vulture for using the deaths of innocents to advance his hobby-horse agenda.

The Israeli atrocity speaks for itself.

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Originally posted by arborman:
Until this latest round of hostilities I've been ambiguous on the Israeli - everyone else conflict. I could see both sides, and I just wanted them to stop killing each other.

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No offence Arborman but it just amazes me that it took this event for you to see the actually truth of this issue. What has been happening in the Middle East since about 1973, is that one of the 10 top military powers has been throwing its weight around using extraordinary force with practically no organized opposition, except for local Arab militias like Hezbollah, wantonly slaughtering Arabs, at the rate of 10 to 1.

Did you know that during the Oslo period that Israelis where killing Palestinians at a rate of 10 to 1? Most people don't. They only woke up to the issue when Israeli Pizza Parlours started blowing up.

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Originally posted by Stockholm:

I agree with stopping the bombing and killing immediately - but let's take this opportunity to have a UN force occupy southern Lebanon

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Annan and Blair made this suggestion. Israel said it's "too soon." Apparently, it hasn't caused enough death, destruction and displacement in Lebanon.

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Well, what business does Israel have telling another country where to place its military resources? Is Lebanon sovereign or not?

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This entire episode feels like one of those World War One battles. At the beginning, everyone had an idea what the fight was about, but after a few months of trench warfare, everyone had forgotten what it was all about and the thing takes on a dynamic of its own that no one can figure out anymore. But no one can back down without appearing to not be a man.

But in this case, Hezbollah pretty clearly violated a UN-recognized national border and blew up a ceasefire that evryone had been pretty much respecting. So Israel was fully justified in retaliating against Hezbollah military sites. But Israeli military action, as usual, went overboard, without much distinction between Hezbollah terrorists and Lebanese government or civilian infrastructure, which I have no doubt is exactly what rightwing fundamentalist lunatics like Hezbollah wanted. And yeah they are lunatics - their wonderful little TV network has been banned in many European countries for hate propaganda for carring shows based on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Even better, now many Palestinians will start seeing a bunch of crazy mullahs who dream of an Iranian-style religious cult dictatorship as heroes.

Ah, the Middle East, where politicians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

Maybe Kofi Annan can bring them all back from the brink. Doubtful, but what the hell. Or maybe, once again, they'll have to murder enough of each other on both sides to be exhausted and then negotiate a truce until the next provocation, attack, miscalculation, etc.

And once again, the totally one-sided "I hate Israel" rants sure don't add to one's understanding. Maybe they're all a bit nuts. That reality, about all the sides being a bit nuts, always made more sense to me.

[ 17 July 2006: Message edited by: Critical Mass2 ]

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Originally posted by Critical Mass2:
A heavily armed UN force to monitor south Lebanon sounds like a good idea.

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They never even allowed peacekeepers into Israel, or any territories that it has grabbed from its neighbours.

Both of your abilities to forsee potential future events is as out of touch with reality as the counter-factual historio-fictions upon which they are based.

Of course you are completely incapable of even considering a UN force for North Israel, or an no-fly zone over Lebanon or Syria, such is completely outside of your myopic one-sided imaginings, in which Israel can neve be touched.

[ 17 July 2006: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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“A vital step is an international peacekeeping force to prevent further rocket attacks. I urge Prime Minister Stephen Harper to commit Canadian Forces to the peacekeeping initiative outlined by UN Secretary General Kofi Annan. Aggressive and brutal attacks on civilians by Israel cannot be justified, just as the terrifying rocket attacks into Israeli cities must be condemned.”

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The NDP has also called for UN peacekeepers in Gaza and the West Bank, something - as Cueball points out - Israel has consistently rejected.

Not sure what peacekeepers in northern Israel would accomplish though given that - as we have seen - the Israeli military has the capability to strike from anywhere within their territory.

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Originally posted by John K:
...and the Lebanese government has the means to enforce such an agreement.

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That's what the UN Peacekeepers would be for. It's clear that the Lebanese government is not in a position to be able to deal with Hizbollah directly. Heck, there is doubt whether even the mighty Israel could keep them in check. This is one of the reasons why the Lebanese decided to include Hizbollah in their government - essentially to avoid civil war and to try and tame them by giving them a stake in the political process; that is to give them an option outside of force to effect Lebanese affairs. Despite appearances, Israel is doing the opposite of what is necessary. Trying to flatten Hizbollah will only quicken their resolve, force them to re-arm with bigger and badder weapons, and raise their profile amongst the general population. By going overboard, Israel has made themselves look like the aggressor to the average Lebanese, Syrian, Iraqi, Iranian, etc. Israel once had it's own heavily-armed extremist terror groups (Stern Gang, Lehi, etc.) and the post-1948 solution was to bring them into the political fray. They created the parties that were the precursors of Likud, with a distinctly fascist flavour, but they were part of the process.

[ 17 July 2006: Message edited by: B.L. Zeebub LLD ]

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Despite appearances, Israel is doing the opposite of what is necessary. Trying to flatten Hizbollah will only quicken their resolve, force them to re-arm with bigger and badder weapons, and raise their profile amongst the general population.

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Thats what I'm really wondering about. By bombing the 'innocents' in Lebanon, they are ultimately increasing support for the Hezbollah, not hindering it. As we've seen with Iraq... So called 'terrorist' organizations are extremely efficient with guerilla warfare, something that can only intensify with hieghtened support.

and (another if) if Iran is behind the scenes, you can be sure that the new Hezbollah are going to be equipped to cause some damage.

And to add to all of this, the attacks on Lebanon serve to increase support and anti-zionist feelings among neighbooring nations like Syria or the fledgling Palestine state. So it's exceedingly thin ice to walk on... What exactly would Israel have to do to 'force' Syria to step in?

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Originally posted by 500_Apples:
If a Canadian Jew was killed by a Hamas suicide bomb on an israeli bus, I doubt a single one of you would be condemning that, calling for economic sanctions, et cetera.

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I personally would be equally appalled. The problem is that there are no good guys in this conflict.

And 9 Canadians have been slaughtered by our purported allies. Looking at the newspapers today, I couldn't help but be astonished at the relatively low profile given to that fact. 9 Canadians, many of them children.

I have no doubt that if a Hezbollah rocket had killed 9 Canadians in Haifa the breast beating and outrage would be significantly different. Let's hope we never find out if I'm right.

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It is impossible to justify killing innocent civilians, and the deaths in Lebanon are heartbreaking. As you know, however, civilians are being killed on both sides of the border — in Haifa and in other northern towns in Israel. It is always innocent civilians who pay the price of war. The challenge is to find a political solution which allow all sides to climb down, take a breath, and see if they can negotiate their way out of this.

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Originally posted by Critical Mass2:
From the Q&A discussion posted above:

A lot tougher than knee-jerk slogans.

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Originally posted by Stockholm:

If you believe that Lebanon is actually sovereign, then you have to accept that the by having Hezbollah cross the border and kill Israeli soldiers and take hostages in an unprovoked attack was a de facto declaration of war.

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Originally posted by Critical Mass2:
From the Q&A discussion posted above:

A lot tougher than knee-jerk slogans.

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Your just pissed because my rhetoric makes yours look like chicken scratch. Your's is like Foreign Policy magazine translated into Urdu, and then back into English through an on-line translator.

I'll give you a hint. Pepper your statments with facts, put them into a logical order with conclusions that reference the facts.

Case in point. I argue that the clear pro-Israeli bia applied by the UN security council is evidenced (look it up) by the fact that Israel has never once allowed UN peackeepers on its soil. Why not?

Why? Because the United States asserts its influence to place the balance of blame upon the Arabs always.

So why not call for a strict no fly zone over Lebanon, with strict shoot down policy. Such would put and end to thes outrageous airborne slaughters. We did in it Iraq, why not Lebanon.

[ 17 July 2006: Message edited by: Cueball ]

Imagine if the seven Canadians had been members of the Canadian Forces. Very different story - they would have been hailed as "heroes" by a sombre-faced Stephen Harper. They would be flown home at government expense with an honour guard and live TV coverage as the plane landed.

Even here on babble, posters would be prefacing their comments with "my condolences to the families of the dead" just to prove their political correctness credentials.

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Originally posted by babyface:
Where's the NDP voice in all this bloodshed?

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
Why not check out the NDP website for a start?

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Michel Warschawski writes of an “Israeli madness” and “insane brutality,” a “putrefaction” of civilized society, that have set Israel on a suicidal course. He foresees the end of the Zionist enterprise; Israel is a “gang of hoodlums,” he says, a state “that makes a mockery of legality and of civil morality. A state run in contempt of justice loses the strength to survive.”

As Warschawski notes bitterly, Israel no longer knows any moral boundaries -- if it ever did. Those who continue to support Israel, who make excuses for it as it descends into corruption, have lost their moral compass.

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Originally posted by babyface:
CUPE's position of boycotting goods from Isreal has more effect that the NDP.

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Of course, the NDP wants to avoid the CUPE boycott like the plague.

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Because a blanket boycott is a stupid policy. And because CUPE is silent about Hamas and Hezbollah racist incitement against Jews through their support for the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and othher rightwing trash.

CUPE could get away with a tough Middle East policy if they weren't so blindly one-sided, and silent about extreme rightwing Islamic fundamentalist terrorism.

There is an frightening phenomenon going on of people supposedly on the progressive side cavorting with or covering for right wing religious fundamentalists.

Spector linked to Counterpunch which just happens to have an article proclaiming how heroic the pro-Iranian fundamentalist lunatic Hezbollah is.

Dumb dumb dumb.

The NDP will never support CUPE Ontario's call because the policy is disturbingly one-sided and silent on Islamism. And yes it would split the NDP - many people on the Left despise anything smacking of being soft on Islamo-fascists à la Hezbollah.

McDonough and Layton's positions calling for deescalation are the right ones.

[ 17 July 2006: Message edited by: Critical Mass2 ]

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Originally posted by babyface:
Where's the NDP voice in all this bloodshed?

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I'm pretending that this is the NDP's position. I'm going to quote it in full until the NDP decides it's worth posting on their party website. Unless Jack has already removed Alexa from her Foreign Affairs post? Any word on that?

MCDONOUGH CONDEMNS HARPER'S COMMENTS ON THE MIDDLE EAST

Alexa McDonough sent the following open letter to Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay regarding Canada's unbalanced Middle East position.

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July 14, 2006
Hon. Peter MacKay
Minister of Foreign Affairs
Lester B. Pearson Bldg., A-10
125 Sussex Dr.
Ottawa, ON K1A 0G2

Dear Minister,

I write to express outrage at your government's response to the destruction levelled by Israel on the innocent civilians in Gaza and Lebanon.

The world has rightly condemned the killings and kidnapping of Israeli soldiers, however Israel's response has been illegal, brutal and disproportionate.

It is more apparent than ever that your government's desire to appease George Bush is so all-consuming, that you are prepared to turn a blind eye to the massive destruction in Gaza and in Lebanon, going so far as to deem these Israeli government assaults as 'measured'.

Even George Bush has been compelled to bow to international pressure and caution Israel to "limit as much as possible so-called collateral damage not only to facilities but also to human lives."

Israel, Hamas and Hezbollah must all assume responsibility for their actions. However, it is impossible to ignore Israel's disproportionate response:

- Bombing of the Palestinian Interior Ministry and other government offices:
- Arrest of duly elected Palestinian parliamentarians;
- Bombings of Palestinian infrastructure including a power station that was the sole generator of electricity and running water for hundreds of thousands of Gazans;
- Destruction of the Lebanese airport;
- Air and sea blockade of Lebanon preventing Lebanese as well as Canadian citizens, including many of my constituents, from returning to or leaving Lebanon; and
- Killing of scores of Palestinian and Lebanese civilians, including children.

Canadians expect their government to reflect our strongly held values of fairness, and justice and to uphold our obligations to international law. They also expect their government to defend and protect their citizens overseas. Your inability to reach out to the families in Canada whose relatives are trapped in Lebanon, or to put in place any evacuation plan to bring those citizens home, is irresponsible and unacceptable.

I urge you to set in motion an immediate plan to bring Canadian citizens home, to call on Israel to halt its assault on Lebanon and to negotiate in good faith a resolution to this latest crisis which has already cost too many innocent lives.

Sincerely,
ORIGINAL SIGNED BY
Alexa McDonough, MP Halifax
NDP Foreign Affairs and International Development Critic

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Originally posted by Lord Palmerston:
Layton had this to say today

http://www.ndp.ca/page/3921

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I'm pretending that this is the NDP's position.

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There is an frightening phenomenon going on of people supposedly on the progressive side cavorting with or covering for right wing religious fundamentalists.

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Originally posted by Sven:

Seems like a pretty measured, middle-of-the-road statement to me.

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In the end, I would think an acknowledgement of Israel's right to exist would be a reasonable concession from Hezbullah and a basis for further agreements. In the absence of such recognition, it's hard to disagree with the hard-line Israeli position. What choice do they have, murdering war criminals notwithstanding? Remove the existential threat to Israel in the mid-east and a new horizon emerges.

[ 17 July 2006: Message edited by: Brett Mann ]

Incidentally, it is amusing that none other than Bob Rae claimed that one of the reasons he left the NDP was the party's position on the Middle East. Yet, Rae's comments on the current crisis in Lebanon look like they were plagiarized from the NDP website!

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Bob Rae was first off the mark Monday, arguing that Prime Minister Stephen Harper's Conservative government has missed a chance to follow in the hallowed footsteps of Lester Pearson by playing peacemaker.

"Canada should have used the last 72 hours to make the case for UN peacekeeping on the border between Lebanon and Israel, accompanied by a firm timetable for a ceasefire and disengagement," Rae said in a statement issued as he campaigned for leadership delegates in Quebec.

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[ 17 July 2006: Message edited by: Stockholm ]

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There is an frightening phenomenon going on of people supposedly on the progressive side cavorting with or covering for right wing religious fundamentalists.

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I agree, and I would include in this the great many "progressives" who have supplied the right in Israel with cover for xenophobic ethnonationalism, aggression, militarism, occupation, illegal settlements, etc.

[ 17 July 2006: Message edited by: B.L. Zeebub LLD ]

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I am deeply concerned with the recent escalation of violence by Israeli forces in Lebanon, and deeply disappointed with the Conservative government’s response to this crisis. Many constituents have contacted my office expressing their outrage and concerns about Canada’s response. By calling Israel’s military response to the kidnapping of three of its soldiers as “measured”, Prime Minister Harper has failed to show leadership on such a critical issue.

I have written to the Prime Minister to express my concern as the Member of Parliament for Vancouver East.

Israel’s disproportionately brutal response to the unlawful and provocative kidnappings by Hamas and Hezbollah militants is a violation of international law, and has put the whole region on the brink of war. The bombing of Beirut International Airport, and of bridges that lead in and out of the city, has endangered the lives of countless Lebanese civilians, and is a terrible display of collective punishment against the Lebanese people. Over 160 people have been killed since Israel began its bombardments last week. The situation in Gaza is also of concern, as Israel’s bombing of critical infrastructure, including a power station, has endangered the health and safety of hundreds of thousands of Gazans.

We learned of the deaths of seven Canadian tourists in Lebanon, including four young children, who were killed following an Israeli air strike. By not immediately setting up an evacuation plan for Canadians caught in the violence in Lebanon, the Canadian government has failed to ensure the safety of its citizens. It is becoming obvious that the Prime Minister is willing to put his friendship with George Bush ahead of his duty to protect Canadian citizens, and Canadian interests and values abroad.

I urge the Canadian government to immediately call on Israel to halt its attacks in Lebanon. Too many innocent lives have already been lost, and the Prime Minister’s silence on this matter is disgraceful. Both sides in this conflict must end the violence and return to peace talks before the situation spirals out of control any further.

I am deeply concerned with the recent escalation of violence by Israeli forces in Lebanon, and deeply disappointed with the Conservative government’s response to this crisis. Many constituents have contacted my office expressing their outrage and concerns about Canada’s response. By calling Israel’s military response to the kidnapping of three of its soldiers as “measured”, Prime Minister Harper has failed to show leadership on such a critical issue.

I have written to the Prime Minister to express my concern as the Member of Parliament for Vancouver East.

Israel’s disproportionately brutal response to the unlawful and provocative kidnappings by Hamas and Hezbollah militants is a violation of international law, and has put the whole region on the brink of war. The bombing of Beirut International Airport, and of bridges that lead in and out of the city, has endangered the lives of countless Lebanese civilians, and is a terrible display of collective punishment against the Lebanese people. Over 160 people have been killed since Israel began its bombardments last week. The situation in Gaza is also of concern, as Israel’s bombing of critical infrastructure, including a power station, has endangered the health and safety of hundreds of thousands of Gazans.

We learned of the deaths of seven Canadian tourists in Lebanon, including four young children, who were killed following an Israeli air strike. By not immediately setting up an evacuation plan for Canadians caught in the violence in Lebanon, the Canadian government has failed to ensure the safety of its citizens. It is becoming obvious that the Prime Minister is willing to put his friendship with George Bush ahead of his duty to protect Canadian citizens, and Canadian interests and values abroad.

I urge the Canadian government to immediately call on Israel to halt its attacks in Lebanon. Too many innocent lives have already been lost, and the Prime Minister’s silence on this matter is disgraceful. Both sides in this conflict must end the violence and return to peace talks before the situation spirals out of control any further.

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Libby Davies (NDP Vancouver East)

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"It's simply not the same thing to say that it's the same act to deliberately target innocent civilians, to desire their deaths, to fire rockets and use explosive devices or kidnapping versus the sad and highly unfortunate consequences of self-defense,"

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14035.htm

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Of course the sick prick Bolton overlooks that Israel is deliberately targetting civilians and is even bragging about it:

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Israel's military ordered residents to flee villages in southern Lebanon yesterday, warning of air and artillery operations following the deadliest cross-border rocket attack on Israel in decades. Internal Security Minister Avi Dichter said the move was aimed at forcing an exodus of tens of thousands of civilians in order to put pressure on the Lebanese Shiite Hezbollah militia. "Tens of thousands of Lebanese who will flee towards the north will create the right pressure on Hezbollah" whose military controls southern Lebanon, Dichter told ministers during the weekly cabinet meeting.

Kuwait Times

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As well as forcing a flood of refugees, Israel has targetted food stores, power, and civilian infrastructure -- war crimes.

And the morally bankrupt US stands behind another racist ideology. And who stands with them? The gutless and complicit Harper, the national leader of those dead Canadians.

And where is Harper?

[ 17 July 2006: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
So says the corrupt, and evil John Bolton, US Ambassador to the UN, responsible for uncounted civilian deaths while dipping his hands into the blood of Central American human rights acivists through the formation and arming of death squads or, in other words, terrorists.

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Was it before or after Stephen Harper declared Israeli actions in Lebanon to be 'measured'?

If before, what stopped MacKay from interfering with Harper's ludicrous endorsement of state-sponsored terror?

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Originally posted by sgm:
If after, what prevented MacKay from admitting his own and Harper's mistakes?

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Originally posted by arborman:

Libby Davies (NDP Vancouver East)

Anyways, we've seen good responses from Mcdonough, Layton and Davies. Now, back to the NDP bashing.

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The official NDP line about UN peakeepers it is substantially deficient, and biased against the Arab parties in the conflict:

Starts out ok and then decends into the usual anti-Arab rhetoric. It is Hamas and Hezobolah that is at fault obviously. No call for a withdrawal from the West Bank.

What of putting a peace keeping force in Israel proper to prevent artillery shells dropping on Gaza beeches?

What of instituting a no fly zone for the IAF over Syria and Lebanon?

No. The peacekeepers will be there to prevent rocket attacks by Hezbollah and Palestinian militants, which are deemed to be the provocation, not the cause of the escalating violence.

Again, like most media, the NDP has simply cut history off at the convenient point where it is Arab action that are the source of the recent escalation... not the slaughter of Palestinian beech goers that immediatly proceeded the capture of the Israeli soldier.

But the NDP seems to think this is balanced.

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“Canada must step forward and call explicitly for a ceasefire by all sides in the conflict, including the withdrawal of Israeli forces from Lebanon, the cessation of attacks by Israel in Lebanon and the Gaza Strip, and the cessation of rocket attacks and incursions on Israel by Hezbollah and Hamas.

“A vital step is an international peacekeeping force to prevent further rocket attacks. I urge Prime Minister Stephen Harper to commit Canadian Forces to the peacekeeping initiative outlined by UN Secretary General Kofi Annan. Aggressive and brutal attacks on civilians by Israel cannot be justified, just as the terrifying rocket attacks into Israeli cities must be condemned.”

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Again, according to Jack Layton peacekeepers should be deployed in Arab territory, nary a word about a similar deployment in Israel itself, or actual measures to prevent Israeli air assaults. Such of course is completely unthinkable.

The overt imbalance is implict in the final sentence, it seems at least that Jack thinks that "terrifying" rocket attacks, are somehow and equal opposite balance against "Brutal attacks against civilians."

Does anyone know when the last time any of these Quassam rockets actually killed anyone?

[b]As for southern Lebanon, does Jack know the UN is already deployed there, and this does nothing to deter Israeli air assaults and incurssions?]/b]

[ 18 July 2006: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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Among the thousands who rallied in support of Israel in front of the United Nations building Monday was 2008 presidential hopeful, Senator Hillary Clinton.

She said all Americans were standing behind Israel at this time, and applauded the Bush administration's support of the Jewish state in the current crisis.

'I want us here in New York to imagine if extremist terrorists were launching rocket attacks across the Mexican or Canadian border, would we stand by or would we defend America against these attacks from extremists?' she asked. 'We will stand with Israel because Israel is standing up for American values as well as Israeli ones.'

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I guess if you don't stand behind Israel, you're not an "American."

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She said all Americans were standing behind Israel at this time

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Really. Did she ask them "all"?

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Originally posted by Cueball:
The overt imbalance is implict in the final sentence, it seems at least that Jack thinks that "terrifying" rocket attacks, are somehow and equal opposite balance against "Brutal attacks against civilians."

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Not surprising. Today's NDP is a party of pragmatism. So they don't want to be "unbalanced" or seen as "anti-Zionist". Better condemn violence on both sides and gloss over reality. The political strategists have probably concluded that there's a trade-off and it's not worth risking losing Jewish support in order to gain support from Muslims. But I'd say very few people on the Left (most of whom for better or worse vote NDP), save a few "progressive Zionists" aren't very sympathetic to Israel at the moment.

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Originally posted by Cueball:

Again, according to Jack Layton peacekeepers should be deployed in Arab territory, nary a word about a similar deployment in Israel itself, or actual measures to prevent Israeli air assaults. Such of course is completely unthinkable.

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Well, by definition peacekeepers must be deployed with the consent of both sides of a conflict. That won't happen in Israel, but it might in Lebanon. Not that reality has anything to do with your argument.

No doubt, Israel is in the wrong in this conflict, and most people know it. But putting peacekeepers in Israel just won't happen - it would have to be an invasion, which would not be peacekeeping. Instead, it would be nice to stop the fighting, on both sides.

Yes, Israel bad - they responded to an attack on military targets by butchering civilians who had fuck all to do with the fight. War crimes, totally inappropriate, and ultimately self-defeating.

Extreme supporters on one side, extreme supporters on the other and civilians in the middle.

As Janice Stein said in my quote of hers above:

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It is impossible to justify killing innocent civilians, and the deaths in Lebanon are heartbreaking. As you know, however, civilians are being killed on both sides of the border — in Haifa and in other northern towns in Israel. It is always innocent civilians who pay the price of war. The challenge is to find a political solution which allow all sides to climb down, take a breath, and see if they can negotiate their way out of this.

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But then, that idea is too "even-handed" an approach, which therefore makes Stein and most likely the vast majority of Canadians watching yet another Middle East catastrophe unfold a bunch of Nazi imperialist Zionist criminals who kill babies for breakfast (or am I just getting all my slogans confused again? )

Wow, even-handed as synonym for evil in the eyes of some. Did I miss the newest edition of the Canadian Oxford Dictionary?

[ 18 July 2006: Message edited by: Critical Mass2 ]

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Originally posted by Critical Mass2:
But then, that idea is too "even-handed" an approach, which therefore makes Stein ...

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I like Janice, too. Having spent some time with her personally, in her classes, at various other events, I grew to respect her insight on many topics. I also had a lot of disagreements with her methodologies, and the philosophical approach that all parties in a conflict are a priori equally to blame. But that's another story...

The statement you quote above may be "evenhanded" but it's also typical of the kind of muddle-headed approach that "Conflict Resolution Strategists" sometimes resort to at times like these: it's an approach without an approach. She says they'll need to come up with a process, but offers no suggestions on what that process might be except to suggest dialogue. "Everyone is to blame" may satisfy your fetish for "evenhandedness" but it won't solve the problem and ignores the qualitative power imbalance in this conflict.

[ 18 July 2006: Message edited by: B.L. Zeebub LLD ]

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Originally posted by Critical Mass2:
But then, that idea is too "even-handed" an approach, which therefore makes Stein and most likely the vast majority of Canadians watching yet another Middle East catastrophe unfold a bunch of Nazi imperialist Zionist criminals who kill babies for breakfast (or am I just getting all my slogans confused again? )

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Originally posted by Critical Mass2:
But then, that idea is too "even-handed" an approach, which therefore makes Stein and most likely the vast majority of Canadians watching yet another Middle East catastrophe unfold a bunch of Nazi imperialist Zionist criminals who kill babies for breakfast (or am I just getting all my slogans confused again? )

Wow, even-handed as synonym for evil in the eyes of some. Did I miss the newest edition of the Canadian Oxford Dictionary?

[ 18 July 2006: Message edited by: Critical Mass2 ]

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Anyway, what's with all this 'even' shit? The biggest military machine in the region rolls into Gaza and kills 60 odd Palestinians in the last few days. Stops, farts, and rolls on into Lebanon, another 200 and what, 20, 30?

And counting, apparently. Nope, can't stop now, more terrorists - and dozens of civilians - to kill, job not done.

Against what, less than 30 Israelis in the same time frame, four of whom died when their tank hit a mine?

No mention that the terrorists originally confined their targets to military?

There are those who dismiss the numbers game and it can be reductive, but it does ALSO give a pretty clear picture of who is doing what to whom. Could it be much clearer?

When you get that dictionary, look up 'balance', 'omission', also, 'distortion', 'misrepresentation' and 'propaganda'.

What is Israel trying to accomplish with this round of attacks? Occupation of more land? Deterrence against future attacks? I'm sure there are motives for what they're doing, so what are they? Obviously Israel's not just trying to get their kidnapped soldiers back. And they don't seem very keen about appearing reasonable and winning international support.

Any thoughts?

[ 18 July 2006: Message edited by: moal ]

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Originally posted by Stockholm:
.. having Hezbollah cross the border and kill Israeli soldiers

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The CBC propagates the same lie on its website. The soldiers were killed in Lebanon not Israel: