babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » current events   » international news and politics   » Hearts and minds

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: Hearts and minds
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 31 August 2007 03:38 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm going to start a thread specifically dealing with stories of civilians savaged by Western forces in Afghanistan and Iraq.

18 civilians killed by NATO airstrikes in Afghanistan

quote:
But Haji Abdul Manan Agha, the tribal leader from the area, said two homes were bombed by coalition forces late Saturday. "In one home 18 people attending an engagement party were killed, including women, children and men," he said.

In the second house, eight Taliban were killed, he said. More than 30 people were wounded in both strikes, Agha said.

Mohammad Gul, a taxi driver who brought six wounded to a nearby hospital, also said that 18 civilians were killed in the clash.


(warning: the above story is written/edited by someone who clearly believes that dead Afghan = Taliban, regardless other evidence.)


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 31 August 2007 03:41 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Civilians killed by indisciminate firing of helicoptor gunships in Baghdad.

quote:
Hospital officials reported that two female bodies were among those brought to two local morgues, and a Sadr spokesman said four women had been killed. Angry relatives and neighbors vowed revenge as they carried the victims' coffins through the streets.

Sadr, whose militia U.S. military leaders accuse of sectarian killings and a campaign of harassment against American troops, denounced the air attacks and called on supporters to stage protests across the country.

The U.S. assault "resulted in killing 20 civilians, including women, children and elderly, and injuring tens more, some in critical condition," charged Nassar Rubaie, head of a parliamentary bloc loyal to Sadr.



From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 05 September 2007 03:41 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Pattern Cited in Killings of Civilians by U.S.

I'm guessing the pattern isn't simply "if the soldiers are in the country, civilians die needlessly", which would be my first guess.

quote:
Nasrina Bargzie, an attorney with the A.C.L.U.’s National Security Project, said the documents show that “the government has gone out of its way to hide the human cost of this war.”

The lawsuit seeks to compel the military to produce all documents related to all civilian deaths since January 2005. The A.C.L.U. contends that the materials may be released under federal law.

...

In two previously unreported cases, Pfc. James Combs was convicted of involuntary manslaughter for shooting an Iraqi woman from a guard tower in what he said was an accident, and Sgt. Ricky Burke was charged with murder for killing a wounded man alongside the road after a firefight.



From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 06 September 2007 02:59 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
200 people officially designated as Taliban killed in the past two weeks.

quote:
The statement said the number of Taleban militants killed in the past fortnight has gone up to nearly 200.

The Taleban said the report of fighting was "baseless" and that they had shot down a US helicopter.

There has been no independent confirmation of any of these claims or counter-claims.


As we know, truth is the first victim. I wonder how many of these 'Taliban' were younger than 10?


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4140

posted 06 September 2007 09:04 AM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A related posting about the "Hearts and Minds" campaign in military strategy.

quote:
A counter-insurgency strategy neither starts nor stops with the military defeat of the insurgent: "The announcement of bold government initiatives to be started after the insurgency has been defeated can have real and significant effect on winning the hearts and minds of the population during any campaign. As with subduing a fire, the flames have to be out and the embers cold, before it can be considered finished". Which is to suggest that the work of Canada in places like Haiti and Afghanistan, where armed resistance continues to oppose the occupying forces, is long from complete, even once, or if, they ever manage to defeat the local armed resistances. Thus, alongside armed confrontation with resistances, the COIN doctrine places great emphasis on the role of the NGO sector in undermining popular support for insurgencies. Thus the ‘Hearts and Minds’ campaign is really nothing more than a façade, psychological warfare intended to divide a colonized population against itself and foster its dependency and reverence towards the colonizing force. The work of Yves Engler and Anthony Fenton, Canada in Haiti: Waging War on the Poor Majority, illustrates a case in point, offering a comprehensive analysis of Canada’s use of NGOs (if we can even call them that) in undermining support for the popular and democratically-elected government of Jean Bertrand Aristide.

The articles is from "The Empire’s "Good Cop": Canada's New Counter-Insurgency Doctrine" and the quote is from the 'Draft’ document of Canada’s counter-insurgency doctrine (COIN).

Canada - the Empire's "Good cop".

quote:
COIN: "When operating in support of a friendly government, the [Canadian Forces] must be seen to operate clearly in support of civil power and not in isolation from it. This can be accomplished more readily if the local security forces are incorporated into the military planning whenever possible, and the civil government is seen to be implementing those aspects of policy, planning, and control which closely affect military operations". In other words, civil authorities are to be, in effect, subordinate to the military authority of Canadian forces, whilst projecting the image of the obverse to the local population and the rest of the world.

The boldface remark is a key to understanding COIN and how these things work. Afghanistan is a great example of this. The Afghan police force is being used as a front-line response to the insurgency, even taking more casualties than the Afghan military, for example, and serving the needs of the occupying armies rather than the other way around.


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 11 September 2007 03:38 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Baghdad raid kills mother and two daughters

quote:
Civilians killed in Baghdad raid. U.S. and Iraqi troops killed three civilians during a raid yesterday in Sadr City, police and residents said. A U.S. military spokesman said the raid targeted a suspected Shia extremist who eluded capture. He said there were no reports of civilian or military casualties. But residents showed AP Television News the coffins of the people they said were killed in the raid - a woman and her two daughters. A police officer, speaking on condition of anonymity, confirmed they were killed in the firefight.

This one was buried very deeply (probably because the US military isn't acknowledging the deaths).

Also:

quote:
Bomber attacks marketplace. A suicide bomber on a motorized rickshaw detonated explosives yesterday in a marketplace in southern Afghanistan, killing 28 people in one of the deadliest bombings since the fall of the Taliban. The attacker apparently was targeting a police commander when he detonated his bomb near a taxi stand around 6:30 p.m. in the town of Gereshk in Helmand province, site of the country's worst violence this year. The police commander survived.

I can't believe the Afghan police would use their own civilians as human shields. They were patrolling a crowded marketplace despite knowing that they are targets of insurgent attacks. What kind of inhuman monster exposes his fellow citizens to such danger?


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 17 September 2007 04:18 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
30 civilians killed in Uruzgan?

quote:
Fighting in Afghanistan killed about 75 people as the Muslim holy month of Ramadan began, officials said Thursday. In the southern province of Uruzgan, insurgents attacked a joint Afghan army and U.S.-led coalition patrol Wednesday with rocket-propelled grenades and gunfire, the coalition said in a statement. Afghan soldiers "cleared" Tali-ban fighters from firing positions within the village of Aduzay, while attack aircraft destroyed some fighting positions, it said. The coalition said more than 45 Taliban were killed.

45 Taliban killed on first day of Ramadan, U.S. coalition says

quote:
Airstrikes and Afghan army gunfire killed more than 45 suspected Taliban fighters in a clash in a southern province just as the holy month of Ramadan began, the U.S.-led coalition said.

Simple math tells me that 30 civilians died alongside the "45 suspected Taliban fighters".


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 17 September 2007 04:20 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
US forces fire on Baghdad crowd, killing 9.


quote:
Iraqi police said nine were killed and 12 injured in shootings at Mansour, one of the busiest parts of Baghdad, when either American troops or private military contractors opened fire on a crowd after coming under sniper attack. The US military said the incident was being investigated.

Those shootings followed a car bomb outside a store on a street crowded with shoppers, killing three and wounding seven. Soon after, a mortar landed at the Shaab stadium near the city centre, killing two men.



From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 19 September 2007 09:21 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
US and coalition partners not doing enough to help Iraqi refugees

quote:
Ban said neighboring Syria and Jordan were struggling to accommodate fleeing Iraqis at a rate of 15,000 per week, "an enormous number of refugees."

"In that regard, parties involved I think have some moral obligation to do more for those refugees," said Ban. "I will try to see when will be opportune timing for me to discuss these matters with leaders of countries concerned."

Refugee advocacy groups say Iraqis are the fastest growing refugee population in the world, with figures now put at between 2 million and 2.5 million. They have criticized the U.S. for not shouldering enough of the burden.

According to U.N. statistics, about 1.5 million Iraqi refugees are in Syria, 750,000 in Jordan, 150,000 in Egypt, 50,000 in Iran and 20,000 in Turkey.

President George W. Bush's administration promised to accept 7,000 Iraqi refugees referred by the U.N. for resettlement during the current budget year, which runs from last October to Sept. 30, but announced in July that the number would be closer to 2,000.



From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 23 September 2007 09:11 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
At least 6 civilians killed in fighting

quote:
Heavy battles punctuated by air strikes killed 75 suspected Taliban and at least six civilians in Afghanistan's south, while a U.S. official on Friday accused Iran of supplying roadside bomb components to insurgents to get American soldiers "out of the region."

I'm not sure why the Iranian accusation gets print in the same story as the NATO attack. Does some press agent fancy himself a magician?

quote:
Women and children were among the six civilians killed in separate fighting in Helmand province's Gereshk region on Wednesday after Taliban guerrillas fled from NATO forces and sought shelter in homes, said Gereshk district chief Abdul Manaf Khan.

Taliban fighters attacked coalition forces from a housing compound that was later targeted in an air strike. ISAF said it was "unaware" civilians were in the area, but acknowledged civilian casualties.


I hate that I can't believe a single word being reported. It frustrates me to no end.


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 23 September 2007 09:13 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Iraqi judiciary claims that video shows Blackwater attacked civilians without provocation

quote:
Iraqi investigators have a videotape showing that Blackwater USA guards opened fire against civilians without provocation last week, a senior Iraqi official said Saturday.

This is the same incident linked to 3 posts up.


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885

posted 28 November 2007 04:09 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
US forces kill at least 14 Afghan road workers

quote:
"All of our poor workers have been killed," Jalili said. "I don't think the Americans were targeting our people. I'm sure it's the enemy of the Afghans who gave the Americans this wrong information."

I'd take that last sentence with a grain of salt. This statement comes from the director of a company employed by the US military.


From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca