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Author Topic: Twisted priorities in the USA
M. Spector
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posted 01 August 2008 07:28 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
A slaughterhouse in Postville, Iowa, develops an ugly reputation for abusing animals and workers. Reports of dirty, dangerous conditions at the Agriprocessors kosher meatpacking plant accumulate for years, told by workers, union organizers, immigrant advocates and government investigators. A videotape by an animal-rights group shows workers pulling the windpipes out of living cows. A woman with a deformed hand tells a reporter of cutting meat for 12 hours a day, six days a week, for wages that labor experts call the lowest in the industry. This year, federal investigators amass evidence of rampant illegal hiring at the plant, which has been called “a kosher ‘Jungle.’ ”

The conditions at the Agriprocessors plant cry out for the cautious and deliberative application of justice.

In May, the government swoops in and arrests ... the workers, hundreds of them, for having false identity papers. The raid’s catch is so huge that the detainees are bused from little Postville to the National Cattle Congress fairgrounds in Waterloo. The defendants, mostly immigrants from Guatemala, are not charged with the usual administrative violations, but with “aggravated identity theft,” a serious crime.

They are offered a deal: They can admit their guilt to lesser charges, waive their rights, including the right to a hearing before an immigration judge, spend five months in prison, then be deported. Or, they can spend six months or more in jail without bail while awaiting a trial date, face a minimum two-year prison sentence and be deported anyway.

Nearly 300 people agree to the five months, after being hustled through mass hearings, with one lawyer for 17 people, each having about 30 minutes of consultation per client. The plea deal is a brutal legal vise, but the immigrants accept it as the quickest way back to their spouses and children, hundreds of whom are cowering in a Catholic church, afraid to leave and not knowing how they will survive. The workers are scattered to federal lockups around the country. Many families still do not know where they are. The plant’s owners walk freely....


read more in the NYT

From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Toby Fourre
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posted 01 August 2008 07:37 AM      Profile for Toby Fourre        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That reads like it came out of the Third Reich.
From: Death Valley, BC | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 01 August 2008 07:50 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Guess the plant wasn't too "kosher" on many levels. And we have our own heinious specialty meat processing plant here in Canada, that our governmental authorities are doing nothing about
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 01 August 2008 07:58 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It is deeply un-Kosher. Jewish - and Muslim - dietary laws require slaughter that will inflict the least possible suffering on the animal.

Not to mention ethical treatment of workers...


From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Caissa
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posted 01 August 2008 08:05 AM      Profile for Caissa     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Do we know from whom they received their kosher certification?
From: Saint John | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
Robespierre
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posted 01 August 2008 10:24 AM      Profile for Robespierre     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's a terrible tale of capitalism, on so many levels.

The local cowboy government finds a Jew operating a plant in a highly illegal manner, it's full of immigrants who can be busted easily under existing laws, other meat-packing interests in the area (owned by Christians) have been hating on this Jew for some time...it was the perfect target for a government clusterbomb.

You ever been to Iowa? It's mightly backwards, pardner, like you stepped on to a movie set right before the gun fight scene.

[ 01 August 2008: Message edited by: Robespierre ]


From: Raccoons at my door! | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 01 August 2008 12:08 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It always bugs me in these cases that they never arrest the owners and managers. It's hard to blame Guatemalans for wanting to move to the US for potentially better wages. Those who exploit that desire for their own profit? Shameful.
From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 01 August 2008 03:31 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Vast sectors of the US economy (not just agriculture) are dependent on cheap, undocumented immigrant labour for their very survival. The presence of these workers drives wages down for everyone; the employers don't have to pay them any benefits; they are willing to accept dangerous work that documented residents would be entitled to refuse under occupational health and safety laws; they are non-union; they don't complain to the authorities about any conduct of the employer; and they can be terminated at any time without consequences. Undocumented workers are enormously profitable to the capitalist class.

So why do they want to crack down on undocumented immigrant labour? Why are they building a wall across the Mexican border and hiring tens of thousands of new border guards and immigration enforcement personnel?

Because there is an even more profitable system of exploitation in the works - the innocuously-named Guest Worker Program.

quote:
Under the plan, foreign workers -- including the estimated 11 million illegal immigrants already in the United States -- could apply to work for three years. Each would be matched with an employer, provided with a biometric identification card to help track his or her whereabouts, and released in the country.

But immigrants who are already living in the United States illegally would have to pay an unspecified fine before they could enter the program. They would also be dispatched to the back of the employment line, behind foreign nationals who followed the rules.

Officials said the fine would preclude any amnesty for illegal immigrants, an anathema to conservative groups and politicians....

The workers could travel freely between the United States and their places of origin, as long as they remained employed and broke no laws. But neither they nor the foreign workers who come to the United States under the program would be eligible to apply for permanent legal status when their time in the program expires.... - Source


As bad as the current situation is for undocumented workers, they at least have freedom of movement - if worst comes to worst they can quit their jobs and look elsewhere for work; similarly, they can risk being fired if they feel they can get another job reasonably soon. They might even be able to advance their economic position over time by "moving up" from job to job.

To the capitalists of the USA, this is far too much freedom.

The Guest Worker Program would end even this minimal freedom for immigrant workers, and make them essentially indentured servants. Lose your job and you lose your status, and you are subject to immediate deportation; thus employers can mistreat immigrant workers while secure in the knowledge that they can't quit their jobs and they are terrified of being fired. The employer can ignore labour laws and safety laws with impunity; he can pay less than minimum wage, or delay paying wages, and know that nobody will complain for fear of immediate deportation.

To the capitalist employers the Guest Worker is a very attractive worker, especially since workers who are US citizens can't possibly compete with them for jobs. The Guest Workers can never hope to become citizens of the US, and face deportation at the end of their 3-year term in the program.

With the Mexican border sealed off, the requirement of a biometric ID card, undocumented workers will all but disappear, but the capitalists will still be able to depend upon cheap immigrant labour to produce super-profits and keep general wage rates at a minimum.

Is this a great system or what?


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Robespierre
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posted 01 August 2008 04:29 PM      Profile for Robespierre     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Doug:
It always bugs me in these cases that they never arrest the owners and managers. It's hard to blame Guatemalans for wanting to move to the US for potentially better wages. Those who exploit that desire for their own profit? Shameful.

I know there are provisions to jail owners and their agents. So, you have to think like a cowboy capitalist to come up with reasons why that never seems to happen. In this case, the governmental authorities that sat down and worked out a plan to raid this particular meatpacking plant might have considered the following before carrying out this farce of justice:

  • Owner is a Jew; let's not open ourselves to a charge of anti-semitism by putting the dirty heathen in jail, especially when all we really want to do is send a message to other Jews that we don't want yer kind in these here parts. The Jewish-controlled media might be all over this if we ain't careful.
  • Them thar inmagrints is mostly Gutemalans, and them people ain't nearly as tough to harass as the damn Mexicans. Let's slap a heavy crime on them, no one will complain, and we'll look like the badass heroes that we are. Hell, we might even git an episode of COPS outta this one! Yeeee-ha!
  • That Guest worker program is coming on, and lotsa folk'll be making good money off of the administration of it once they git it going, But sny dern fool knows it's a sham, and won't stop the illegals from crossing the border, especially once the quotas are filled. Hell yeah, too much money being made fighting the illegals to turn around and make 'em legal---everybody knows that deal.

Ok, I've simplified a lot above but that thar is the jist of the dang thing. Ye-haaaa!


From: Raccoons at my door! | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
USSocialDemocrat
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posted 02 August 2008 06:46 AM      Profile for USSocialDemocrat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Posted by Robespierre:
You ever been to Iowa? It's mightly backwards, pardner, like you stepped on to a movie set right before the gun fight scene.


There are good, progressive people everywhere who care about justice.

I live in Iowa and I know a lot of them.

Think also of the churches in this Iowa town who have taken a leading role in supoorting the workers and their families affected by this raid.

The entire population of Iowa did not commit either the injustice of the working conditions at this plant, nor the injustice of the raid.

(Nor, by the way, have I ever felt in Iowa as though I was about to be in the middle of a gun fight. I did, however, Robespierre, almost step into a knife fight on the streets of Manhattan once...)


From: Des Moines, Iowa | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 02 August 2008 08:46 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by lagatta:
It is deeply un-Kosher. Jewish - and Muslim - dietary laws require slaughter that will inflict the least possible suffering on the animal.

Not to mention ethical treatment of workers...


When I was a child visiting my grandparent's, I observed how differently they slaughtered their chickens and cattle, than other persons that I saw on their farms. The chickens never made one sound, never mind the abscence of flapping about all over the ground after heads were removed. However, it would not be until I was an adult, that I would come to understand, why they were "kosher".

What they did to ensure the meat was kosher, would be pretty hard to do on a massive scale and make any money doing so. It would be easier just to pretend the meat was kosher, if one was in it to make money. I would say Agriprocessors most likely would/ will be out of the kosher meat market henceforth, as their customers now know differently.


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Robespierre
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posted 02 August 2008 09:16 AM      Profile for Robespierre     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Let me ask you a question: what did you think of my hypothesis? I don't mean the one you inferred about me thinking the entire population of Iowa was responsible for what happened. I do mean the one I was sure to make clear, that the authorities (cops, INS) planned this to screw that Jewish owner but not to go too far and endanger the good Christian business owners who also hire illegal immigarnt workers?

quote:
Originally posted by USSocialDemocrat:
Posted by Robespierre:
You ever been to Iowa? It's mightly backwards, pardner, like you stepped on to a movie set right before the gun fight scene.


There are good, progressive people everywhere who care about justice.

I live in Iowa and I know a lot of them.

Think also of the churches in this Iowa town who have taken a leading role in supoorting the workers and their families affected by this raid.

The entire population of Iowa did not commit either the injustice of the working conditions at this plant, nor the injustice of the raid.

(Nor, by the way, have I ever felt in Iowa as though I was about to be in the middle of a gun fight. I did, however, Robespierre, almost step into a knife fight on the streets of Manhattan once...)



From: Raccoons at my door! | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 02 August 2008 09:32 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think you might be right, Robespierre, that there may be anti-semitism involved and also a desire to cover up workplace abuses (of both workers and the animals) that happen everywhere.

And I get that you were being ironic in your longer description above - but please, no ironic racism or anti-semitism is allowed on babble. You can make your point without it.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Robespierre
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posted 02 August 2008 09:45 AM      Profile for Robespierre     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ok, Michelle, no ironic stuff, check. I will abide by this rule from now on, and I do agree with it.
From: Raccoons at my door! | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 02 August 2008 12:15 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Still, nothing now to stop those managers from rinsing and repeating. Though perhaps that's the point.
From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 02 August 2008 05:16 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Robespierre:
You ever been to Iowa?
No, but my dog used to race there.

From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
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posted 02 August 2008 05:22 PM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was there. In Des Moines. Pickups with gun racks seemed quite common. But I don't think every Iowan can be blamed for the work of the Feds. And I think what the government did, the good ol' democratic government, was to eliminate a good many potential witnesses as to what transpired inside the plant and what orders were given.
From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
George Victor
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posted 02 August 2008 05:37 PM      Profile for George Victor        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And that's it, I guess, USsocial Democrat, for your attempt at nuanced, rational discussion of social/political differences across a nation of more than 300 million people with their growing religious complexity.

May I make an apology for your treatment?

And, please, do not be entirely put off by it. I, for one, would like to hear how there are, perhaps, more Iowan churches more like those of Minnesota than are to be found in the southern Bible Belt. There was a very interesting article in a Harper's mag a couple of years back making the "good/bad" distinction in the Christian social message...with the good guys leaning to a continued dependence on the sermon from the mount, the other guys -in the growing congregations - only asking what the church can do for them in a "feel-good" way.

Bet you subscribe to the earlier sect?

I've entered here because the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation and its successor, the New Democratic Party had a Christian leadership, and while it's now necessary to put down the fundamentalist/evangelical Christian take on Darwin with their perverted (un-Christian?) view of the disposessed - which we can all join in criticizing - everyone of faith gets subjected to the same criticism. And that is just playing to an assumed audience in this venu.

[ 02 August 2008: Message edited by: George Victor ]


From: Cambridge, ON | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 02 August 2008 05:44 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by George Victor:
I, for one, would like to hear how there are, perhaps, more Iowan churches more like those of Minnesota than are to be found in the southern Bible Belt.

I'd prefer to hear about the mosques, temples, and synagogues in Des Moines.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
George Victor
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posted 02 August 2008 05:53 PM      Profile for George Victor        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Little Houses on the Prairies?
From: Cambridge, ON | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 02 August 2008 06:04 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by George Victor:
The Little Houses on the Prairies?

Why not? Better than your Fourmen from the Mount.

[ 02 August 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
George Victor
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posted 02 August 2008 06:14 PM      Profile for George Victor        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

But if you compare the Christian position of the four, you get real comoplexity. A pox on all of their houses does not have the same resonance out there in voter land...(if that's not being too opportunistic in our pristine view of things political...

[ 02 August 2008: Message edited by: George Victor ]


From: Cambridge, ON | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
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posted 03 August 2008 02:56 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by George Victor:

But if you compare the Christian position of the four, you get real complexity. A pox on all of their houses does not have the same resonance out there in voter land...(if that's not being too opportunistic in our pristine view of things political...

[ 02 August 2008: Message edited by: George Victor ]


How about the Four Faces of Doom highlight the Xian position of taking another culture's most revered sacred places and desecrating them for the glory of god and the Republic.

From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
George Victor
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posted 04 August 2008 04:35 AM      Profile for George Victor        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, on the day we went as a family, back in '94, we knew nothing of the history of Rushmore. In fact, your notation got me googling, and I suppose, today, we might have given it a pass. Or perhaps I would have done more research into the movement of the Lakota Sioux into a former Cheyenne territory a century before the U.S. cavalry rode in.

One memory of Rushmore was the near absence of African-Americans. And we speculated on the reason(s) for that phenom.

Later, driving alone down through Wounded Knee, where there were no Americans of any extraction alongside us - curtains stirred behind windows closed to the ferocious heat - we decided that the causes of the cultural differentiation were similar in each case.

But I remain hopeful, reading just this morning, Rawi Hage's longing for a secular world ruled by reason. He despairs, noting that "we're just territorial monkeys".

It seems to me we have the secular yearning around here, but not much reasoning, or the kind of tolerance that is said to mark the ideal world.


From: Cambridge, ON | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
USSocialDemocrat
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posted 08 August 2008 05:37 AM      Profile for USSocialDemocrat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Posted by Robespierre:
"Let me ask you a question: what did you think of my hypothesis...that the authorities (cops, INS) planned this to screw that Jewish owner but not to go too far and endanger the good Christian business owners who also hire illegal immigarnt workers?"

Well, it's certainly possible.

A little background:
According to Wikipedia, Postville has a population (as of the 2000 census) of 2, 273. Estimates of the Hasidic Jewish population in the town range from 150 to more than 300.

Postville has been predominantly German and Norwegian throughout its history. In 1987, a group of Hasidic Jews of the Lubavitch movement from New York purchased a slaughterhouse in Postville to process Kosher meats, thus creating the company Agriprocessors. Since then, Postville has seen an influx of people, including many Ukrainians, Russians, Mexicans, Guatemalans and Filipinos.

Outright hostility between the Postville natives and newcomers has been rare, however it appears that there has been tension between them. Much of this has focused on the Hasidic community.

By the way, the interaction of Postville natives with these newcomers was the subject of a book about the town, Postville: A Clash of Cultures in Heartland America (ISBN 0-15-100652-0), written by Stephen Bloom, a professor at the University of Iowa.

As of yesterday, the Attorney General of Iowa (a Democrat) is now pursuing child labor charges against Agriprocessors.

I would love to see the management of the company in jail for all of the abuses against the workers that they have sanctioned, as laid out in the article above.


From: Des Moines, Iowa | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
USSocialDemocrat
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posted 08 August 2008 05:53 AM      Profile for USSocialDemocrat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thank you, George Victor, for your kind words.

I suppose the difference is that in the Upper Midwest, we do not have many Southern Baptists. What Baptists we have are American Baptists, which are more liberal than their southern brethren.

Good for you for your involvement in the CCF and then the NDP. Were that we had a similar party in the US! We are constantly having to hold our nose and vote for the "liberals". So much for US "democracy"...


From: Des Moines, Iowa | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
George Victor
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posted 08 August 2008 04:05 PM      Profile for George Victor        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yep. I have two cousins and a sister-in-law in the Great Republic, and they are all reluctant to talk politics with confidence. It's almost as if someone might hear.

Somewhere along the way in talking about freedom, you folks lost sight of the meaning of the word.

And NOBODY seems to want to try to explain the Canada/U.S. differences in this way. I can only recall some text (was Fox the author?) talking about the "feudal splinter", or some such, surviving in Canada, a silliness about noblesse oblige etc.Old C.B.McPherson developed a complex theory explaining "agrarian socialism", and I recall Bell or someone also doing a number on Saskatchewan...explaining its distinctiveness.

Perhaps you know of some work by a political scientist down your way explaining why you find yourself with only the lonely Ralph Nader to the left of the old party of FDR?


From: Cambridge, ON | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged

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