babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » walking the talk   » labour and consumption   » US grad students have no right to unionize

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: US grad students have no right to unionize
robbie_dee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 195

posted 16 July 2004 12:50 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
National Labour Relations Board Says Graduate Students at Private Universities Have No Right to Unionize (New York Times)

(if you don't have a login for the NY Times and don't want to sign up for one, you can visit www.bugmenot.com to get an anonymous one)

quote:
The fast-growing movement to unionize graduate students at the nation's private universities suffered a crushing setback yesterday when the National Labor Relations Board reversed itself and ruled that students who worked as research and teaching assistants did not have the right to unionize.

In a case involving Brown University, the labor board ruled 3 to 2 that graduate teaching and research assistants were essentially students, not workers, and thus should not have the right to unionize to negotiate over wages, benefits and other conditions of employment.

The Republican-controlled board reversed a four-year-old decision involving New York University, a private institution, in which the board, then controlled by Democrats, concluded that graduate teaching and research assistants should be able to unionize because their increased responsibilities had essentially turned them into workers.

As a result of the 2000 N.Y.U. ruling, students there formed the first graduate employees' union at a private university in the nation. (Graduate student workers at public universities are governed by state labor laws rather than federal law, and many states have given them the right to unionize.)
***
Edward J. McElroy, the secretary-treasurer of the American Federation of Teachers, who is set to be elected the union's president today, called the decision "outrageous."

"These people obviously are workers," Mr. McElroy said. "If members of the N.L.R.B. can't recognize a worker when they see one, they shouldn't be on a national labor board."


This is outrageous. I've worked as a graduate TA. Its a job. We perform valuable work for the university. We get paid for that work. If we don't do the work, we don't get paid. Yes, we may also happen to go to school there. But that doesn't mean that our teaching responsibilities aren't a job.

What's even worse is that this is just the opening salvo of what is to come from Bush's Labour Board if he gets reelected. Fortunately, the NLRB has no jurisdiction over state schools (the student teachers are considered state employees and governed by state law, which may or may not give them the right to unionize.) But the private schools are a huge portion of the postsecondary system here, and the Board is progressively making them a union-free zone. University professors lost the right to unionize a number of years ago, because they were considered "managers." Interesting to ask who they're "managing," since the grad students working under them aren't "workers."


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4014

posted 16 July 2004 12:55 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Man, that whole anti-union, union-busting jag the Anglo-American world has been on since Margaret Thatcher came to power is really reaching these days. TA's aren't workers? Why did I have to pay all that income tax then?
From: Québec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
VoiceofTreason
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5852

posted 19 July 2004 12:00 PM      Profile for VoiceofTreason     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ouch.

Two years ago I walked a picket line as a research assistant. Now I'm heading back as a TA and I suspect another labour dispute. This is kind of dispiriting. Thank Christ I don't live in the US.


From: Toronto | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
josh
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2938

posted 19 July 2004 12:05 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
To all those who say it doesn't matter whether a Democrat or a Republican is elected president, this is a good of example of why it does matter.
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
abnormal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1245

posted 19 July 2004 07:49 PM      Profile for abnormal   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Do you honestly believe that it'll make any difference if Kerry is elected? He'll have a prettier Veep but that's about it.

I hate to think about the amount of time I've spent closeted with various investment bankers over the last little while but, without fail, not one of them is concerned about the outcome of the election or its impact on anything they are doing. Business as usual.


From: far, far away | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
josh
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2938

posted 19 July 2004 07:55 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As I noted above, this thread is a perfect example of why it would make a difference.
From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 195

posted 19 July 2004 07:59 PM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, I believe that if Kerry is elected he will appoint less asinine members to the National Labour Relations Board, as well as other administrative agencies and the courts.

Clinton's labour board ruled in favor of grad student unionization in 1996. The Bush II Board's 3-2 reversal is nothing more than a craven display of partisan politics.

Yes, neither Bush nor Kerry will challenge the fundamental power structure of American society. But there are still real policy differences between the two of them, that affect real people. If you are a grad student trying to organize a union, you are better off with Kerry in the White House than with Bush.


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
abnormal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1245

posted 19 July 2004 09:09 PM      Profile for abnormal   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Dream on.

You're talking about someone with an $8,000.00 bicycle (his other one is estimated to be worth $5,000). A man that gave $175 to charity in a year that he bought himself an $8,600 motorcycle. You think he really gives a shit?

[ 19 July 2004: Message edited by: abnormal ]


From: far, far away | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Polunatic
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3278

posted 19 July 2004 10:38 PM      Profile for Polunatic   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Part-timers in Ontario community colleges are not allowed to organize into unions either.
From: middle of nowhere | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 518

posted 20 July 2004 12:02 AM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
One has to be pretty blind not to see that Bush is far more dangerous than Kerry. Clearly, decisions like this, as well as judicial appointments in general, will be far preferable under Kerry.

Arguments about his personal wealth would have disqualified Roosevelt as making a difference from Hoover, too.

Serious people know better.


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 195

posted 20 July 2004 12:06 AM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
You think he really gives a shit?

No, I don't actually. But I do think he owes some political payout to a core Democratic constituency. And as to foreign policy (although its off topic to this thread), Kerry isn't a psychotic nutjob, which is an improvement over the group currently running things.

[ 20 July 2004: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
robbie_dee
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 195

posted 20 July 2004 12:07 AM      Profile for robbie_dee     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Part-timers in Ontario community colleges are not allowed to organize into unions either.

Really? What's the reasoning?


From: Iron City | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Polunatic
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3278

posted 20 July 2004 01:29 AM      Profile for Polunatic   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm not sure what the reasoning is but it's part of the Colleges Collective Bargaining Act. I would hazard to guess that the province thinks it would be more expensive.
quote:
Kerry isn't a psychotic nutjob
I get the feeling that Bush got a taste for killing while he was governor and really enjoyed holding that kind of power.

From: middle of nowhere | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
josh
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2938

posted 20 July 2004 07:14 AM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:

I get the feeling that Bush got a taste for killing while he was governor and really enjoyed holding that kind of power.

Yes, besides being God's messenger, Bush considers himself to be God's avenging angel.


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 20 July 2004 07:27 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, he certainly didn't get the taste for it in combat, that's for sure!
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 20 July 2004 07:29 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by abnormal:
A man that gave $175 to charity in a year that he bought himself an $8,600 motorcycle. You think he really gives a shit?

Maybe he believes in social justice rather than charity, and therefore doesn't donate to "charity" causes.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
vickyinottawa
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 350

posted 20 July 2004 11:08 AM      Profile for vickyinottawa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm not sure it's that they can't unionize, n-p-p - only they're excluded by legislation from the units that represent the teaching staff. It would be interesting to try and organize them in a separate unit. It would be hard for the LRB to ignore the presence of per-course faculty in academic unions across the country (in universities, but also in community colleges in BC, where the bargaining units represent everyone who teaches). Will have to take a look at the legislation.

As for the US ruling, yeah, this is a real setback to the academic labour movement. I'm heading to a contingent academic labour conference in Chicago in August - will let you all know what the buzz is when I get back


From: lost in the supermarket | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Polunatic
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3278

posted 21 July 2004 12:42 AM      Profile for Polunatic   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
Well, he certainly didn't get the taste for it in combat, that's for sure!

That would have been too risky.

From: middle of nowhere | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
jrootham
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 838

posted 23 July 2004 11:25 PM      Profile for jrootham     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
TAs have there own union (now a CUPE loca). Ryerson TAs were members before it became a university. I would assume that other college parttimers could join.
From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Klingon
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4625

posted 25 July 2004 04:31 PM      Profile for Klingon        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
P'Tachk! Yet another example of the falsity of the so-called "land of the free and home of the brave."

As has already been said here, grade students, Alma Matters and TAs in Canada are now largely unionized and legally recognized as such.

But I would urge the US grads not to give up just because of a pork chop bureaucratic ruling by anti-worker corporate dupes.

The truth is unions, in one form or another, exist just about everywhere and have done so since people began working for a living. No matter how illegal governments and ruling elites have made them, they still exist and still manage to have some influence.

In fact, the first ever-documented strike, of sorts, was during the building of the great pyramids. The issues around it are still unclear. But apparently the skilled trades and engineers of that time were organized into to some sort of labour union. Although these were absolutely forbidden by the totalitarian Pharos regimes, they still were quite active and managed to make some changes in the workplaces of that day.

In fact, history throughout the world is chalk full of labour activism and unionization of one form or another--illegal or not--from the Greco-Roman era, where at least three general strikes took place, throughout the middle ages with the clandestine, but still fairly effective, trade guilds, to the countless peasant and slave revolts to the more sophisticated activities of today.

If the NLRB won't recognize the grads, then so be it. They can continue to meet and help one another with the issues they face. For, example, they can meet and democratically set a general set of standards, with everyone agreeing to do whatever they can to try to stick to them on the job and pressure the employers to agree to--if not collectively, at least one-on-one, like the guilds did throughout the feudal and middle ages, and despite being illegal, were quite successful.

Of course the can also try to appeal the decision, or take it to the supreme court (if they can afford it).


From: Kronos, but in BC Observing Political Tretchery | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca