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Topic: Iraqi PM doesn't shake hands
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Crippled_Newsie
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7024
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posted 23 June 2005 06:14 AM
I post this to enquire whether this bothers feminists politically. My dislike for Ms. Rice notwithstanding, I call it rude (at best), regardless of the cultural norms at issue. But anyway: quote: BRUSSELS, Belgium (AP) -- Photographers didn't have much luck getting pictures of Iraq's prime minister [Ibrahim al-Jaafari] shaking hands with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, even though the United States was co-hosting an international conference on rebuilding Iraq.... However, al-Jaafari -- a conservative Shiite cleric -- is rarely seen shaking hands with women. Islam calls for separation between the sexes, and many Muslim males who strictly adhere to the Islamic faith do not shake hand with females. One photo shows EU External Affairs Commissioner Benita Ferrero-Waldner offering her hand to al-Jaafari -- and the Iraqi prime minister smiling, but with his arms firmly at his side.
Link (NYT)
From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004
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Hephaestion
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4795
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posted 23 June 2005 08:10 AM
LagattaI just wonder if their scrupulous attention to religious "proprieties" would extend to refusing help if they were having a heart attack on the street and the only person around was a female ER nurse... Jerks. [ 23 June 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]
From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003
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skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478
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posted 23 June 2005 08:27 AM
I agree, lagatta, although I think there is a mixture of barriers here -- sometimes we're just looking at different cultural norms, but some cultures, as we know, still reject our notions, anyone's notions, of women's full equality, especially in public roles.Still, I can't abide the ethnocentric sneer I detect in the prose of a male reporter for the NYTimes as he makes his kind of issue out of the problem. There are intelligent ways of negotiating these barriers. The proven one, I think, is to turn to independent women or women's groups in the countries or cultures concerned and to ask them to take the lead or to advise. It was horribly offensive, eg, for privileged Western women like Laura Bush and Cherie Blair to imply that they (and their warlike husbands, of course) knew best how to liberate the women of Afghanistan, thus usurping the role of the most heroic political Afghan organization bar none, RAWA, which was opposed to the American invasion -- and, of course, of Afghan women themselves. Liberation isn't imposed from the top, by condescending foreigners, certainly not by Condoleezza Rice or the NY Times.
From: gone | Registered: May 2001
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aRoused
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1962
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posted 23 June 2005 08:30 AM
I'm probably going to misspeak myself but...My understanding of Judaism and Islam is that it's not the transgression so much as forgetting of the norm that's frowned upon. So if you're starving, eat the salted pork and apologize to Allah afterwards. If the woman is dying in the street, it's a greater evil to stand by and do nothing than touch her to carry her to safety. Not being able to pray at the appropriate times is not so bad as completely forgetting to pray. Someone correct me if I've gotten the wrong end of the stick here, please.
From: The King's Royal Burgh of Eoforwich | Registered: Dec 2001
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nonsuch
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1402
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posted 23 June 2005 07:24 PM
Never mind about religion. No person in hir own house, and no citizen of a sovereign nation on hir own soil, owes you an explanation for the way they do things. Not even if they owe you money; not even if (looong stretch of imagination required) the aid you send them outweighs the benefits you have enjoyed at their expense.If you send a (*ahem*) diplomat to another country, that diplomat should speak the language, be able to pronounce the names correctly, be familiar with the culture and abide by the rules. If somebody comes to your country, you should try to make them as comfortable as possible, without violating your own laws and mores. It's the polite thing to do. (But then, USians don't seem to realize that not all countries are theirs... or that etiquette exists.) I thought some more about it. Iraq is not a sovereign nation, but a recently conquered one. Okay, then, all Iraqui officials can be forced to shake or kiss Condi's hand, or genuflect, or kow-tow, or whatever the conquerors consider appropriate. In which case, both the required obeisance and the consequences of refusal should be made clear before the meeting. [ 23 June 2005: Message edited by: nonesuch ]
From: coming and going | Registered: Sep 2001
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