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Author Topic: report: Israel bombed nuke shipment to Syria
Geneva
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posted 17 September 2007 01:41 AM      Profile for Geneva     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
aha!
so that is what that "violation of Syrian airspace" was really about:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article2461421.ece

IT was just after midnight when the 69th Squadron of Israeli F15Is crossed the Syrian coast-line. On the ground, Syria’s formidable air defences went dead. An audacious raid on a Syrian target 50 miles from the Iraqi border was under way.

At a rendezvous point on the ground, a Shaldag air force commando team was waiting to direct their laser beams at the target for the approaching jets. The team had arrived a day earlier, taking up position near a large underground depot. Soon the bunkers were in flames.

Ten days after the jets reached home, their mission was the focus of intense speculation this weekend amid claims that Israel believed it had destroyed a cache of nuclear materials from North Korea.

The Israeli government was not saying. “The security sources and IDF [Israeli Defence Forces] soldiers are demonstrating unusual courage,” said Ehud Olmert, the prime minister. “We naturally cannot always show the public our cards.”

[ 17 September 2007: Message edited by: Geneva ]


From: um, well | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 17 September 2007 02:00 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There isn't a single named source in that story. Its just as likely disinformation as not. These are the same people who brought you "Saddam's Weapon's of Mass Destruction moved to Syria," and other rot.

You might as well read KGB reports from the 1960's, as reliable material.

For all we know they blew up a farm and said that it was a nuclear testing site.


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Cueball
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posted 17 September 2007 02:04 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Mossad is an intelligence agency dedicated to furthering Israel's strategic goals in the region. They lie, they cheat, they steal, they kill.

That is their job. That is who they are.

quote:
But why would nuclear material be in Syria? Known to have chemical weapons, was it seeking to bolster its arsenal with something even more deadly?

Alternatively, could it be hiding equipment for North Korea, enabling Kim Jong-il to pretend to be giving up his nuclear programme in exchange for economic aid? Or was the material bound for Iran, as some authorities in America suggest?


Was it a shipment of pork pies headed for Portsmouth, and mistakenly shipped to Lebanon?

[ 17 September 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Geneva
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posted 18 September 2007 05:05 AM      Profile for Geneva     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
curiouser and curiouser:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/bstephens/?id=110010619

What's beyond question is that something big went down on Sept. 6. Israeli sources had been telling me for months that their air force was intensively war-gaming attack scenarios against Syria; I assumed this was in anticipation of a second round of fighting with Hezbollah. On the morning of the raid, Israeli combat brigades in the northern Golan Heights went on high alert, reinforced by elite Maglan commando units. Most telling has been Israel's blanket censorship of the story--unprecedented in the experience of even the most veteran Israeli reporters--which has also been extended to its ordinarily hypertalkative politicians. In a country of open secrets, this is, for once, a closed one.

[ 18 September 2007: Message edited by: Geneva ]


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jeff house
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posted 18 September 2007 06:20 AM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Its just as likely disinformation as not. These are the same people who brought you "Saddam's Weapon's of Mass Destruction moved to Syria," and other rot.

I agree with Cueball that there is little concrete about this story as yet, and that it might well be disinformation.

The sources so far are right-wing only, and their track record is very poor when it comes to the truth.

On the other hand, it is intrinsically difficult to discover what happened at a remote site in Syria, or what the Israeli military may have done there.

I won't trust the Syrian version of this, either, absent independent confirmation by news reporters on the ground.


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jester
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posted 18 September 2007 06:42 AM      Profile for jester        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I posted that source in the Iran war thread as another version of the article in Turkish Weekly that states Israel is training for long range flights to Iran through Turkey.

Her's another article in TWO about Israel dismissing Iranian missle threats:

Turkish Weekly Opinion


From: Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
HUAC
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posted 18 September 2007 06:57 AM      Profile for HUAC   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:

Was it a shipment of pork pies headed for Portsmouth, and mistakenly shipped to Lebanon?

[ 17 September 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ][/QB]



From: Ottawa | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged
HUAC
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posted 18 September 2007 06:58 AM      Profile for HUAC   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:

Was it a shipment of pork pies headed for Portsmouth, and mistakenly shipped to Lebanon?

[ 17 September 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ][/QB]



From: Ottawa | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged
HUAC
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posted 18 September 2007 07:04 AM      Profile for HUAC   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:

Was it a shipment of pork pies headed for Portsmouth, and mistakenly shipped to Lebanon?

[ 17 September 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ][/QB]


Sorry,phone rang. No, it was a nuclear attack submarine the Syrians had ordered from Afghanistan, apparently. Fed-Ex screwed up and dropped it off at some damned oasis in the middle of nowhere. They thought it was camel saddles.


From: Ottawa | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 18 September 2007 08:12 AM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That's funny, but don't hit the "Add Reply" button so many times. Just once is enough. Heh.
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nister
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posted 18 September 2007 04:54 PM      Profile for nister     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Google Earth should be able to find those burning bunkers. Where are the images?

There's an odor about this story..


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Jingles
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posted 18 September 2007 08:38 PM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The same Google that "updated" New Orleans with pre-Katrina images. No doubt at the insistence of an unnamed senior administration official.

Besides, the Google image for my neighbourhood is still three years old.


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Cueball
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posted 18 September 2007 10:33 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have to correct what I said earlier about Mossad:

quote:
Mossad is an intelligence agency dedicated to furthering what they believe are Israel's strategic goals in the region. They lie, they cheat, they steal, they kill.
That is their job. That is who they are.

[ 18 September 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 18 September 2007 10:40 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In more Syria and nuclear news:
quote:
Syria voted co-chairman of UN watchdog
By HERB KEINON

Two weeks after Israel's alleged bombing raid in Syria, which some foreign reports said targeted North Korean nuclear material, the UN's nuclear watchdog elected Syria as deputy chairman of its General Conference on Monday.

The 51st session of the General Conference of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) opened in Vienna on Monday and will run through Friday.

The Syrian news agency SANA proudly reported the election on Tuesday, adding that Syria was also successful in including "the Israeli nuclear arsenal as an item on the agenda of the conference."

The agenda for the meeting includes the item "Israeli nuclear capabilities and threat." While Iran will be a focus of the discussions, there is no item on the agenda referring to the Islamic Republic by name.


Israel's Foreign Ministry had "no public comment" on Syria's election.


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 18 September 2007 11:12 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Some satelite photo Hijinx:

CNN's Nuke Plant Photos Identical for Both Iran and N. Korea!


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Cueball
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posted 18 September 2007 11:26 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Here's an interesting blog about the Google Earth connection.

The author suggest that what makes the story doubtful is that Google Earth is not getting hi quality images from Syria:

quote:
If U.S. intelligence agencies had suspected nuclear activities near al-Mayadin, Cole's reporting suggests that we'd see high-res pictures in Google Earth. But that does not appear to be the case. I can think of several possible explanations:


Tuesday Map: How not to find Syrian nukes with Google Earth


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Cueball
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posted 01 October 2007 09:09 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Syria: Israeli warplanes attacked last month

quote:
BEIRUT (AP) — Syrian President Bashar Assad told the British Broadcasting Corp. on Monday that Israeli warplanes attacked an "unused military building" in his country last month and said Damascus reserves the right to retaliate.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Geneva
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posted 13 October 2007 11:36 PM      Profile for Geneva     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
a different version of events:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/14/washington/14weapons.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

WASHINGTON, Oct. 13 — Israel’s air attack on Syria last month was directed against a site that Israeli and American intelligence analysts judged was a partly constructed nuclear reactor, apparently modeled on one North Korea has used to create its stockpile of nuclear weapons fuel, according to American and foreign officials with access to the intelligence reports.

The description of the target addresses one of the central mysteries surrounding the Sept. 6 attack, and suggests that Israel carried out the raid to demonstrate its determination to snuff out even a nascent nuclear project in a neighboring state. The Bush administration was divided at the time about the wisdom of Israel’s strike, American officials said, and some senior policy makers still regard the attack as premature.

[ 13 October 2007: Message edited by: Geneva ]


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Cueball
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posted 14 October 2007 02:05 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Its crap. I have decided now.
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ohara
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posted 14 October 2007 03:11 AM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And so it must be
From: Ottawa | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Agent 204
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posted 14 October 2007 04:24 AM      Profile for Agent 204   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
Some satelite photo Hijinx:

CNN's Nuke Plant Photos Identical for Both Iran and N. Korea!


The link isn't working.


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ohara
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posted 14 October 2007 10:35 AM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Maybe I just cannot read satellite photos well but I see 2 different pictures. Secondly that CNN may have screwed up is not a huge surprise
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munroe
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posted 14 October 2007 11:09 AM      Profile for munroe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What is surprising is the lack of any information from the United States and Israel to justify the now confirmed military operation. What is also surprising is the lack of immediate world condemnation.

Did Israel conduct a military strike against another sovereign nation? No doubt now with admissions. Was there an immediate threat? No doubt now with admissions. In other words, this was an illegal action under International law.

Is there even wriggle room to explain? The NY Times reports (and there is no contradiction) that the defenders say it was a nuclear facility in the early stages of construction. You tell me how "eyes in the sky" can determine the final purpose of a project. Let's remeber the attack on a pharmaceutical plant that was somehow a weapons manufacturing place.I would challenege anyone to say what a place will manufacture based upon initial structure.

The Times also notes that Syria has signed the nuclear non-proliferation pact and has a right to build plants for power. "Even if" it was a nuke plant then, it may have ben well within international standards.

So bogus, so bogus....and the right continues to complain that the State of Israel is targetted for its abuses of international law. If North Korea is a "rogue state" it is incompetent. If Iran is, then think again what law applies and where the issue leads. If Syria is a surrogate and receiving state, why the veil?

I do not need to "choose sides" here. What matters is the absence of reality on the "spin"; but more importantly the truly secreted agenda of "where from here".

The real heroes are the scientists who said atomic energy was simply a path to bad consequences. Yes, I was one who hid under his school desk in the 50s.

[ 14 October 2007: Message edited by: munroe ]


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Buddy Kat
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posted 14 October 2007 12:32 PM      Profile for Buddy Kat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sometimes the hypocrisy is too much and the double standard is obvious..but people still suck it up and believe what ever the media tells them . Especially when the media is controlled or serves rouge nations such as Israel and the US.

Whatever happens in the future to these rouge nations is a long time coming ...and I for one will not be surprised when it does.


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Rattus
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posted 14 October 2007 02:17 PM      Profile for Rattus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by munroe:
Did Israel conduct a military strike against another sovereign nation? No doubt now with admissions. Was there an immediate threat? No doubt now with admissions. In other words, this was an illegal action under International law.


Just to be clear, Syria and Israel remain today in a state of war. That should be taken in to account when making statements like that above.


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Cueball
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posted 14 October 2007 02:21 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ohara:
And so it must be

It's bullshit.


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munroe
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posted 14 October 2007 03:08 PM      Profile for munroe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
OK, Rattus, I'll remember the "state of war" when someone accuses surrogates of Syria of kidnapping soldiers or directing missiles into Israel.

Is every action taken that targets Israel justified until it abandons the Farms or the Golan Heights? Was the devastation of civilian pospualtions in Lebanon justified due to a "state of war". Are raids and assassinations in Gaza and the West Bank acceptable due toa "state of war"? Are the atrocities caused by Americans and their mercencenaries OK because of a "state of war"? After Afghanistan attacked the United States (?) was NATO justified in in all of its actions due to a "state of war"? Are American sorties killing civilians with aerial attacks ok because of a "state of war"?

Each interaction is very sick. I guess any action taken by North Korea against others can be excused as there still is a "state of war"?

Bombing any and every construction site in Israel, Syria etc. is a-ok, I suppose. Occupying land and displacing people for security reasons is fine.

Never make peace is the only answer - then you can justify anything.


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Cueball
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posted 14 October 2007 03:10 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Rattus:

Just to be clear, Syria and Israel remain today in a state of war. That should be taken in to account when making statements like that above.


Fair enough. Israel has broken the cease-fire.


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ohara
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posted 14 October 2007 04:32 PM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I dont know, if I were living in Israel be I Israeli Arab or Jew id be heaviing a mighty sigh of relief. A precision air strike , no civilian casualties on a facility that may very well have been eventually used to create a bomb that could have destroyed my country. Hell Id live with it no prob.
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Rattus
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posted 14 October 2007 04:43 PM      Profile for Rattus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by munroe:
OK, Rattus, I'll remember the "state of war" when someone accuses surrogates of Syria of kidnapping soldiers or directing missiles into Israel.

And I would point out that if proxies are "kidnapping" soldiers as part of that war then the kidnappees are entitled to rights under the Geneva Conventions. If your postulation that they are acting as proxies for Syria is correct, Syria is responsible for the violations of such. And in fact, kidnapping and holding soldiers for ransom or exchange IS a violation of international law.

quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
Fair enough. Israel has broken the cease-fire.

Correct. One of many violations by both sides, including the ones Munroe alludes to carried out by proxies. There has been no violation of international law through the action taken in bombing the alleged nuclear site unless one can show something more, like an attack on civilians. You can certainly argue that violating the cease fire is morally wrong.


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munroe
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posted 14 October 2007 04:46 PM      Profile for munroe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Provided of course it wasn't just an empty building or the foundations for a shampoo factory. Mind you, no reason to disbelieve all those anonymous sources, I suppose.
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munroe
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posted 14 October 2007 04:48 PM      Profile for munroe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Raffus, it ain't my speculation...it's the nonsense we hear from people in the White House and out of Tel Aviv.
From: Port Moody, B.C. | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged
Buddy Kat
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posted 14 October 2007 06:41 PM      Profile for Buddy Kat   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ohara:
A precision air strike , no civilian casualties on a facility that may very well have been eventually used to create a bomb that could have destroyed my country.


Sounds like Neo- con paranoia too me. Anyone can use that excuse to destroy anything on just suspicion if that's the case. Very flawed thinking that's for sure.

Shit you can say with impunity the US or any country for that matter should be wiped off the map because they may very well have been or gonna be sometime or even ,eventually use there country to create a bomb that could have destroyed my country sometime in the future.

Talk about baloney...hear that Russia , China , Iran better get them before they get you.

I think Israel and the US are going to get a big surprise in the not to distant future..they are virtually begging for it. I just hope when it comes (the big surprise)we don't have these pathetic US butt kissing politicians at the helm to drag us all down with them. Don't hold your breath tho.


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ohara
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posted 14 October 2007 06:44 PM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And of course we all know what an upstanding leader Bashar Assad is and how ethical a government he runs Just ask the Arrar family.
From: Ottawa | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 14 October 2007 06:47 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ohara:
I dont know, if I were living in Israel be I Israeli Arab or Jew id be heaviing a mighty sigh of relief. A precision air strike , no civilian casualties on a facility that may very well have been eventually used to create a bomb that could have destroyed my country. Hell Id live with it no prob.

There is abslutely no publically available information to confirm the story, except the words of a few intelligence officials, working for organization who commonly known to engaged in massive public disinformation campaigns for political purposes.

Furthermore, control of the production of fissile material does not reside with the IAF, the Knesset, or Mossad.

[ 14 October 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
ohara
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posted 14 October 2007 06:51 PM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Maybe it didnt even happen
From: Ottawa | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 14 October 2007 06:55 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I have waited many weeks for some solid proof, other than the repetition of reports originating from mostly unamed sources derived from "secret" intelligence reports, and nothing has been forthcoming. There is simply no supporting evidence, not even as much as Colin Powell's airial photographs of milk trucks in Iraq, during the Iraq WMD scare.

For one thing, even the reports forwarded to us indicate that the project was many years away from completion, therefore, there was no real risk in an immediate sense. More than enought time to forward a complaint to the UN, present evidence, and establish some kind of basis for the allegations being made, and develop a case based on some kind of concrete evidence, and a demand for inspections by nuclear regulatory bodies recognized by the international community.

Ergo, it is obviously bullshit.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Bacchus
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posted 14 October 2007 07:52 PM      Profile for Bacchus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Now if only someone would precision bomb the Israel gov't, military, Mossad, Syria's government and the Gaza Strip's Hamas, we might actually get peace.
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