Bluenotes stores across Canada are selling red men's t-shirts with the slogan "No means have aNOther drink" emblazoned on them.

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In all seriousness, from the three or four bluenotes I've seen, their staff is 90% teenage female. I wonder how they feel. I wonder what their designers were thinking. I wonder what girls will think if they see a popular girl wearing that shirt at a party. I wonder what guy would not be too ashamed to wear such a shirt.

But hey, what can you expect after girls tshirts that say "who needs a brain when I got these?" and "boys are stupid - throw rocks at them." (I'm not sure if these were from bluenotes, but the point does not change).

They promote rape. They promote hatred of women. And they are selling.

Unfortunately, there is no information of any kind about this protest and its affect on the CFS website that I can find.

According to someone at the Coalition Against Violence, last weekend, "members of the Canadian Federation of Students contacted Bluenotes outlets across the country calling for the t-shirt in question to be removed from their shelves. We have just learned that the efforts have been successful and the t-shirt will no longer be sold by that company."

[ 23 February 2007: Message edited by: writer ]

If it was women, and I’m only assuming it was, I’d like to buy up the Tee shirts!
In order to give it an empowering tongue in cheek message would require a simple addition.

How’s this?

"No means have aNOther drink"
(by yourself)

On the other hand, if the target market was male, the shirt could take on a new meaning again.

A female friend of mine has a shirt that says;
“The only way I’d lay naked with you is in a mass grave”

So, reading back over the thread while less bleary eyed, I see the target market was male. Personally, looking at it from a male perspective, I see it as more defeatist than offensive. According to my single friends, the more you drink, the less likely members of the fairer gender are willing to talk to you. Therefore, having aNOther drink is tantamount to conceding defeat.

Offensive in this case may largely be a matter of perspective. As for catching the next train to Stunnedville, I catch that one a lot. It seems to me it’s nearly impossible to say anything without inadvertently offending somebody.

As an example, I crew on a few racing sailboats. One of the more competitive ones has an all girl foredeck crew, and we were in the marina bar after a race having some laughs and I said “Women can’t be competitive in this sport, they just don’t have the upper body strength. The only way around that would be to put strategically place winches around the deck.”

A nonsailing lady nearby took offence in a big way, but the Foredeckers thought it was funny because big sailboats are all about strategically placed winches. They saw my comment as a sarcastic jab at males who think ladies can’t race.

So, don’t be shy, a forum is for debate and discussion, please tell me why the mentioned shirt is offensive from your perspective.

[ 24 February 2007: Message edited by: billF ]

1. The "No Means No" campaign began at least a decade ago, by feminists, rape crisis centres and other women's centres. There's an elaborate postcard that details "Silence Means No, I'm Tired Means No, Not Now Means No", etc. An excellent educational campaign, IMO. The backlash began immeidately and, it seems, every time a new batch of 20-year-old young men discover it, continues anew. It's an ongoing campaign to educate young women, and young men, about consent and sex.

Ask First (U of T)

RAMP

2. "No Means Have Another Drink". This is part of a concerted backlash by doofus idiots. Less palatable for t-shirts (I hope) were other phrases such as "No means hit her in the Face" and "No means do it anyways". Hilarious.

3. There's nothing funny about mass graves. So if you find it funny and I don't, the nicest thing I can say it we have different senses of humour.

[ 25 February 2007: Message edited by: bigcitygal ]

quote:

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Originally posted by bigcitygal:
The backlash began immediately.

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quote:

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Perhaps the best known is the "No Means No" campaign, which gained great popularity, particularly on university and college campuses, in the mid 1980s.

This campaign, at its heart, said that unless a woman said yes, she was saying no. Any ambiguity was to be interpreted as a no, or at least be heard as a demand for further discussion. Community reaction to this campaign was often highly critical. In one of the most publicized incidents, some male students at Queen's University began a counter-campaign that involved putting highly offensive and violent signs in their residence windows containing such slogans as "No means more beer" and "No means do it to me harder." These simply served to further reinforce the myth that "No means yes" and fostered a massive national debate on this subject.

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Further described here.

(Oops, that was October 1989.)

[ 25 February 2007: Message edited by: Wilf Day ]

quote:

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Originally posted by billF:
[QB]So, don’t be shy, a forum is for debate and discussion, please tell me why the mentioned shirt is offensive from your perspective.

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Actually, the FEMINISM forum is for feminists to discuss feminist issues from a feminist point of view, not for men to "invite" feminists to debate and discuss (we already do that here, and you're the guest here, not feminists), or to explain to them why something they said in this forum is offensive.

quote:

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Originally posted by Wilf Day:
at Queen's University in October 1999

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quote:

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Originally posted by Michelle:

That's a typo, isn't it? I seem to remember pretty clearly that this happened during my last year of high school, in 1989 and 1990.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Wilf Day:

They also served to scare off some prospective women students, such as my daughter in 1990-91 when the debate on "free speech" and codes of student conduct was still raging at Queen's. She visited Queen's as one of her three choices, didn't like the continuing atmosphere (which she blamed on too many private school boys going to Queen's), and opted for University of Guelph. Queen's' loss.

Further described here.

(Oops, that was October 1989.)

[ 25 February 2007: Message edited by: Wilf Day ]

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Wonder if any of those "manly macho men" who put those signs up in the windows are now ReformaTory politicians?
Sounds like they'd fit right in.

(on edit) After reading the link, I feel genuinely ill, Wilf. Christ, what's the matter with that school?

...more importantly, what the fuck is the matter with my entire gender? How did so many of us get like that?

[ 25 February 2007: Message edited by: Ken Burch ]

[ 25 February 2007: Message edited by: Ken Burch ]

Here is a pic of the shirt I found:

I am glad we have spaces like this forum to discuss issues from a feminist perspective. However, not all forums are like Rabble. Over the years, I have gotten into some debates with men over the No Means No campaign. I find it frustrating to no end, but somewhere, a piece of me still believes that not all men who don't quite get it at first will stay that way. Some men are lucky enough to have been raised in a feminist environment - either at home or at school - and will not ever think jokes about rape, or taunts about violence against women are funny.

Other men are critical of the No Means No campaign and I wonder if it is possible to reach them. Since this t-shirt came out, I have had discussions in social settings and also online in some other forums, and on the globeandmail.com site about it. I am stunned when some men start saying that they dislike the shirt, but the campaign is flawed because it's not realistic to always get consent. They make comparisons of a man and woman who've been married for 20 years not asking each other to have sex before they do to situations where women allege date rape, saying it's ridiculous to ask a woman. Someone I know (but strongly dislike) said that too many women make false rape accusations, and actually said that being falsely accused of rape was worse than being raped.