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Author Topic: Porn 'does not make sex objects'
Vigilante
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posted 29 November 2005 04:23 PM      Profile for Vigilante        Edit/Delete Post
The study, to be published in the noted international Journal of Sex Research, analysed 50 of the bestselling pornographic videos in Australia to find out whether people were represented as sex objects.

Queensland University Professor Alan McKee, who led the study, said researchers compared the way women and men were represented in each video.

They noted such things as who initiated the sex, whose pleasure was paid attention to, whether people in the videos got to speak about what they wanted during sex and whose perspective the videos were presented from.

"We were surprised at just how active and in control the women were in these videos," Prof McKee said today.

"This study suggests that mainstream pornography in Australia doesn't represent women as sex objects, it shows them as active sexual agents."

Advertisement:
The findings are part of a three-year government-funded study the most comprehensive of its kind on pornography in Australia.

Interim results released in 2003 on the content of pornographic movies found super-size breasts scare some men, conservative voters love dirty magazines and adult videos have realistic plots.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17352073-29277,00.html


From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
arborman
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posted 29 November 2005 04:43 PM      Profile for arborman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh boy.
From: I'm a solipsist - isn't everyone? | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Grover
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posted 29 November 2005 04:44 PM      Profile for Grover     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
and adult videos have realistic plots.

So I should get that job doing pizza delivery then?


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Vigilante
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posted 29 November 2005 04:48 PM      Profile for Vigilante        Edit/Delete Post
Of note, I'm not posting this as a blind supporter of porn. I see it as based on roles and totaly comodified to begin with to begin with. And in the world I'd like to create, there would probably be more fleshy stuff.

That being said, I find the results interesting.


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jrootham
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posted 29 November 2005 05:10 PM      Profile for jrootham     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I would assume the realistic plots line is relative to mainstream movies.
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Mr. Magoo
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posted 29 November 2005 05:31 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Did they mention thongs?
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Cueball
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posted 29 November 2005 05:38 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The Pizza Delivery boy is wearing thongs?
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 29 November 2005 05:41 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Grover:
So I should get that job doing pizza delivery then?

Heh. I could never understand, while watching a porn movie one time, why there were TWO pizza delivery guys assigned to deliver a pizza to the the sexy woman who paid for it in an, ahem, unconventional fashion.

I keep waiting for two hot pizza delivery guys to come to my place and give me that payment option, but it's never happened. I don't understand it.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 29 November 2005 05:52 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
I keep waiting for two hot pizza delivery guys to come to my place and give me that payment option, but it's never happened.

Two??

I'd settle for just one who's better looking than the pizza!


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Cueball
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posted 29 November 2005 05:55 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So let me get this straight: There are two pizza Delivery boys in thongs, one who is actually better looking than the Pizza, and Michelle and RB have just answered the door bell.

Do continue...


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jeb616
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posted 29 November 2005 05:57 PM      Profile for Jeb616   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What if you just really wanted pizza?
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Albireo
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posted 29 November 2005 06:00 PM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Depends... how much cheese?
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Reality. Bites.
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posted 29 November 2005 06:01 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Jeb616:
What if you just really wanted pizza?

That's why I get take-out!


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Cueball
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posted 29 November 2005 06:02 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What about the crust?
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CMOT Dibbler
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posted 29 November 2005 06:10 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Magoo:
Did they mention thongs?

And high heels?...


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
writer
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posted 29 November 2005 06:20 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And fuckwads?
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Jeb616
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posted 29 November 2005 06:26 PM      Profile for Jeb616   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by writer:
And fuckwads?

Is that a porno? Or a pizza place?

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CMOT Dibbler
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posted 29 November 2005 06:32 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Why can't it be a pornograpic pizza place?
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Albireo
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posted 29 November 2005 06:36 PM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Vigilante:
The study, to be published in the noted international Journal of Sex Research, analysed 50 of the bestselling pornographic videos in Australia to find out whether people were represented as sex objects.

Queensland University Professor Alan McKee, who led the study...


...had made a drunken bet at a party that he could get grant money to watch porn.

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Cueball
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posted 29 November 2005 06:43 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Actually there has been grant money disbursed to support the production of porn.
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josh
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posted 29 November 2005 07:01 PM      Profile for josh     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:

Heh. I could never understand, while watching a porn movie one time, why there were TWO pizza delivery guys assigned to deliver a pizza to the the sexy woman who paid for it in an, ahem, unconventional fashion.

I keep waiting for two hot pizza delivery guys to come to my place and give me that payment option, but it's never happened. I don't understand it.


Maybe she had a reputation for being a big tipper.


From: the twilight zone between the U.S. and Canada | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Makwa
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posted 29 November 2005 07:31 PM      Profile for Makwa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
I keep waiting for two hot pizza delivery guys to come to my place and give me that payment option, but it's never happened. I don't understand it.
Gee, when I delivered pizza, I was grateful for a tip.

From: Here at the glass - all the usual problems, the habitual farce | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ichy Smith
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posted 29 November 2005 07:48 PM      Profile for Ichy Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:

Heh. I could never understand, while watching a porn movie one time, why there were TWO pizza delivery guys assigned to deliver a pizza to the the sexy woman who paid for it in an, ahem, unconventional fashion.

I keep waiting for two hot pizza delivery guys to come to my place and give me that payment option, but it's never happened. I don't understand it.


There was one in Niagara region who was rather willing to spend some extra time, but he didn't like girls. He had a fabulous accent, dark hair and big blue eyes and when last I heard was running the business. Came to Canada with a suitcase and 5 years later owns a pizza place


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Yst
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posted 29 November 2005 08:00 PM      Profile for Yst     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
So let me get this straight: There are two pizza Delivery boys in thongs, one who is actually better looking than the Pizza, and Michelle and RB have just answered the door bell.

Do continue...


Babble slash fiction? Well, it had to happen at some point.


From: State of Genderfuck | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 29 November 2005 08:10 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
We have to bring Judy Sgro into this thread.
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Loretta
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posted 29 November 2005 08:33 PM      Profile for Loretta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
"This study suggests that mainstream pornography in Australia doesn't represent women as sex objects, it shows them as active sexual agents."

Isn't this what men always want to believe -- that women really, really want it and I have to be the one to give it to them? Give me a break!


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Jeb616
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posted 29 November 2005 08:41 PM      Profile for Jeb616   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I really just wanted some pizza.
From: Polar Bunker | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 29 November 2005 08:47 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Studies of this kind are always subjective, for instance, How did prof McKee determine weather a woman is an "active sexual agent", How did he define the term?

[ 29 November 2005: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Ichy Smith
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posted 29 November 2005 08:49 PM      Profile for Ichy Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Loretta:

Isn't this what men always want to believe -- that women really, really want it and I have to be the one to give it to them? Give me a break!



Loretta I don't know if it is YOU exactly. I think most men think that Women really really want sex and one day they, as men, will find SOMEONE to give it to them.... I suspect it doesn't really narrow down until someone actually does give it to them..... If our definitions of sexuality were not quite so defined, I suspect sex would be a much more casual subject. As the lines between sexuality become more blurred, I think there will be many more trendy bisexual males, marriage will come later, and will be as much about companionship as anything else. After all a lot of women are never really as interested in sex as a 17 year old boy.


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Serendipity
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posted 29 November 2005 09:07 PM      Profile for Serendipity     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:
Studies of this kind are always subjective, for instance, How did rof McKee determine weather a woman is an "active sexual agent", How did he define the term?

I was wondering that too. These "active sexual agents" must be lurking in every porn film I've ever seen. Everyone is so interested in having sex with complete strangers. Like most girls, of course.


From: montreal | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 29 November 2005 09:28 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Isn't this what men always want to believe -- that women really, really want it and I have to be the one to give it to them? Give me a break!


I think most women really, really want sex once in a while. The problem comes when a man thinks a woman wants sex all the time.

Anyway, one study with fifty videos does not prove that the porn industry has suddenly become a bastion of gender equality.


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
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posted 29 November 2005 09:40 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
How many other studies have there been on objectification in porn?
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Ichy Smith
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posted 29 November 2005 09:47 PM      Profile for Ichy Smith     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:

I think most women really, really want sex once in a while. The problem comes when a man thinks a woman wants sex all the time.

Anyway, one study with fifty videos does not prove that the porn industry has suddenly become a bastion of gender equality.


That is true, but it does say something about the attitudes of the people buying this particular selection of Porn, and what they fantasize about.


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Wilf Day
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posted 29 November 2005 09:54 PM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I'm no expert on porn, but I want to report a surprise we just got. My wife was trying to phone a bank's 800 number, and hit a wrong digit. She astonished to find the bank's phone apparently being answered by a sexy voice which offered callers a choice: "to hunt down a horny girl of your choice, press 1. To speak with a real professional, a nasty slut, right now, press 2."

If you don't believe me, dial 1-800-465-5653. But DON'T whip out your credit card.

[ 29 November 2005: Message edited by: Wilf Day ]


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mimsy
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posted 29 November 2005 09:59 PM      Profile for mimsy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Vigilante:
"...mainstream pornography...doesn't represent women as sex objects, it shows them as active sexual agents."

Wow! Really?


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 29 November 2005 10:02 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by writer:
And fuckwads?

I'm sorry. (Even though I know you weren't addressing me with that, but I didn't help.) I was just making fun of the claim that mainstream porn somehow depicts realistic situations. I probably shouldn't have done the thread drift thing, but it was already drifting anyhow, and I really do think that this study's findings were rather silly.

Almost all the porn I've seen has only focused on the woman's pleasure or shown her "in charge" to the degree that it would be a turn on for the men in the movie. I don't think I've ever seen porn where it looked like the woman was really genuinely getting off, at least it didn't look like that from my perspective as a woman who knows what gets ME off during sex. (I know I can't speak for all women in that respect, this is just my perception.)

So, that "realistic" claim just sort of made me guffaw.

[ 29 November 2005: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
mimsy
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posted 29 November 2005 10:07 PM      Profile for mimsy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Wilf Day:
I'm no expert on porn...
If you don't believe me...

No, I don't believe you Wilf, not for one second. All you think about is that "mixed member proportional" stuff. You BS-er!

BTW, what kinda bank was that?

[ 29 November 2005: Message edited by: mimsy ]


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
arborman
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posted 29 November 2005 10:15 PM      Profile for arborman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by mimsy:

No, I don't believe you Wilf, not for one second. All you think about is that "mixed member proportional" stuff.

[ 29 November 2005: Message edited by: mimsy ]


Well, after what are literally years of discussion on the topic, the context of this thread has finally given me a new appreciation of the term 'mixed member proportional'.

It apparently has something to do with pizza, as well as voting habits.


From: I'm a solipsist - isn't everyone? | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
mimsy
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posted 29 November 2005 10:20 PM      Profile for mimsy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And so these Fair Vote people show up behind the pizza boys at Michelle's place, where RB is visiting...
From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
mimsy
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posted 29 November 2005 10:35 PM      Profile for mimsy   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Thread drift, sorry.

OK, seriously now, sorry about the thread drift, ummm, YES! This needs more serious study...women...being depicted as active sexual agents in pornographic film, YES!...mmm, I have to get my dissertation proposal in before everyone else...


From: mon pays ce n'est pas un pays, c'est la terre | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
MasterDebator
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posted 30 November 2005 12:44 AM      Profile for MasterDebator        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Albireo:
...had made a drunken bet at a party that he could get grant money to watch porn.

Do you mean to tell me that they have Liberals and a Canada Council in Australia?

Next thing you know they'll be doing Sponsorships.


From: Goose Country Road, Prince George, BC | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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posted 30 November 2005 01:08 AM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:

Heh. I could never understand, while watching a porn movie one time, why there were TWO pizza delivery guys assigned to deliver a pizza to the the sexy woman who paid for it in an, ahem, unconventional fashion.


Uh...it was a really, really BIG pizza?


From: A seedy truckstop on the Information Superhighway | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Weltschmerz
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posted 30 November 2005 03:01 PM      Profile for Weltschmerz     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Burch:

Uh...it was a really, really BIG pizza?



Oh please, let's not get into the debate about how important the size of the pizza is. Do women really only want BIG pizzas? Or is it more about the toppings?

From: Trana | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
ronb
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posted 30 November 2005 03:07 PM      Profile for ronb     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Isn't it how quickly it is delivered? 30 minutes or else...
From: gone | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 30 November 2005 03:17 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
I don't think I've ever seen porn where it looked like the woman was really genuinely getting off, at least it didn't look like that from my perspective as a woman who knows what gets ME off during sex.

Porn is designed for the purpose of giving visual stimulation to masturbating men. I'm not in a position to comment on straight porn, but gay porn frequently features positions and acts designed to maximise the visual stimulation, but that wouldn't likely be the most pleasing ones to the audience if they were actually participating.

The same is true, of course, of all kinds of fictional popular entertainment.

I don't think one could properly compare the female characters in porn to one's own life, but only to male characters and female characters in other productions.


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Mr. Magoo
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posted 30 November 2005 03:24 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
If we're going to say that porn is "unrealistic" then I think it's only fair that it be compared to Harlequin Romances. So it only has to be as realistic as the Lord of the Manor swooping in on his horse to rescue the Poor Servant Girl who doesn't yet know she's the heiress to the mansion, and caressing her gently with his rough, strong hands as the two gallop back to his castle where he tears off her bodice in order to make love by the hearth as she...ZzzzzZzzzz.. zzzz... zzzzz.

Really, if fantasies are suddenly constrained to being realistic, then they're not really fantasies any more.


From: `,_,`,_,,_,, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
MasterDebator
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posted 30 November 2005 03:44 PM      Profile for MasterDebator        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Magoo:
Really, if fantasies are suddenly constrained to being realistic, then they're not really fantasies any more.

What do you think would be the biggest downer, the biggest mood killer, in terms of introducing an element of realism? Having them pause to put on a condom, perhaps?


From: Goose Country Road, Prince George, BC | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
arborman
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posted 30 November 2005 03:49 PM      Profile for arborman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Edited to remove unintentional provocation, with apologies.

[ 30 November 2005: Message edited by: arborman ]


From: I'm a solipsist - isn't everyone? | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
writer
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posted 30 November 2005 03:52 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Nice. What a refreshing take for the feminism forum. Well done, players! Thoughtful and all that.
From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
arborman
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posted 30 November 2005 04:21 PM      Profile for arborman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by writer:
Nice. What a refreshing take for the feminism forum. Well done, players! Thoughtful and all that.

In my opinion - unwelcome as it may be - this thread and its attempts at humour are a result of most of us not wanting to dive back into the very divisive and fractious 'porn' debate that happened a month or two ago. Everyone's positions were clear, and it was getting really nasty. The original post looked like it was going to brew up the whole thing again, and I was profoundly relieved when people started making jokes rather than shouting at each other.

Having said that, I realize that my last post may be taken as sniping rather than my intent, which was for it to be a joking reference to a past disagreement among friends. I don't like to remove posts, but I will if people prefer.


From: I'm a solipsist - isn't everyone? | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Makwa
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posted 30 November 2005 04:35 PM      Profile for Makwa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by arborman:
I was profoundly relieved when people started making jokes rather than shouting at each other.
Ok cool. Now maybe we can pull out some whacky giggly references to Black and Indian stereotypes in popular culture in the racism thread 'cause now we're all getting along so well. Relief from discomfort is good and all, thus 'insider' humour, but it can be hard to tell when a line is being crossed. Just my $0.02 - but then again I'm peevish at the best of times.

From: Here at the glass - all the usual problems, the habitual farce | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
writer
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posted 30 November 2005 04:41 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What I see here is baiting, pure and simple, and a desire to get *back into* the crap many claim to not like. And it seems the feminism forum is being used to such ends. Maybe I've missed something, but it's been a good while since there's been a lot of ugliness in this forum. Seems some are spoiling for a fight.
From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 30 November 2005 04:43 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I thought maybe the first post had that taint, but then the reaction of most people I thought was an attmept to defray the gathering storm.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
arborman
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posted 30 November 2005 04:46 PM      Profile for arborman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Ok, fair enough. I deleted my potentially misunderstood post, and am officially outtahere.
From: I'm a solipsist - isn't everyone? | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
MartinArendt
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posted 30 November 2005 04:53 PM      Profile for MartinArendt     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
I thought maybe the first post had that taint, but then the reaction of most people I thought was an attmept to defray the gathering storm.

Yes, that's how I read it too.

quote:

Originally posted by Writer:
Maybe I've missed something, but it's been a good while since there's been a lot of ugliness in this forum. Seems some are spoiling for a fight.

Does it? I really see it as people being silly.

quote:

Originally posted by Makwa:
Ok cool. Now maybe we can pull out some whacky giggly references to Black and Indian stereotypes in popular culture in the racism thread 'cause now we're all getting along so well.

That's hyperbole, and you know it.

Porn threads in the feminism forum, when seriously addressed, seem inevitably to lead to angry debate and people saying nasty things to one another. Like this, for instance:

quote:

Originally posted by Writer:
And fuckwads?

I think it's probably better if we all keep it nice and light, at least this one time. But hey, that's just me...

[ 30 November 2005: Message edited by: MartinArendt ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
writer
editor emeritus
Babbler # 2513

posted 30 November 2005 05:08 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Martin & Cueball, I'm all for poking holes (hah!) into this in-depth (hah!) study. But the repeated references to thongs and high heels - which, for some reason caused no end of trouble here only a little while ago - are meant to do only one thing: provoke. Or maybe they aren't meant to. Maybe people were just being thoughtless.

Please note: I contributed not one word to the thong-high-heel debate that I can recall. Still, I did notice that a lot of knickers (hah!) got into very nasty knots over who said whatever about whoever could should or didn't enjoy thongy thong thongs and tippy hippy high heels.

To pretend that bringing them up again and again in a porn thread in the feminism forum isn't asking for trouble is disingenuous at best.

Edited to add: Oh, and "fuckwads" was a joke. Didn't you get it? And: Thank you thank you thank you, Makwa!

[ 30 November 2005: Message edited by: writer ]


From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 30 November 2005 05:17 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think there's really only one person who could have been "provoked" by a reference to, uh, certain undergarments. And she herself brought them up in a recent thread in the feminism forum:

"Along with the obligatory thongs and high heels, of course, but I digress."

I made it a link so you can go there, right now, and chastise her for also scratching at old wounds in the feminism forum. And make it good; I'll be checking.


From: `,_,`,_,,_,, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
MartinArendt
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9723

posted 30 November 2005 05:17 PM      Profile for MartinArendt     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
writer, to be perfectly honest, I never really know when you're joking and when you're genuinely angry about something.

I think the two of us have very different senses of humour...


From: Toronto | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
MasterDebator
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8643

posted 30 November 2005 05:23 PM      Profile for MasterDebator        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Magoo:
I think there's really only one person who could have been "provoked" by a reference to, uh, certain undergarments. And she herself brought them up in a recent thread in the feminism forum:

"Along with the obligatory thongs and high heels, of course, but I digress."

I made it a link so you can go there, right now, and chastise her for also scratching at old wounds in the feminism forum. And make it good; I'll be checking.



You flatter yourself a great deal, don't you?

Try to imagine my disappointment that you didn't show us a photo of yourself in your favourite heels and thong outfit, watching the hockey game and claiming the outfit was chosen for it's comfort factor.


From: Goose Country Road, Prince George, BC | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
writer
editor emeritus
Babbler # 2513

posted 30 November 2005 05:24 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So, yeah, my mistake, not meant to be unnecessarily provocative (some might call it baiting) at all. Please disregard.

[ 30 November 2005: Message edited by: writer ]


From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 30 November 2005 05:38 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yes, well, I agree that Magoo has this awfully effective way of getting under peoples clothes.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 30 November 2005 05:48 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
... where I chap and chafe and make people uncomfortable.
From: `,_,`,_,,_,, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
Crippled_Newsie
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7024

posted 30 November 2005 05:48 PM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
Yes, well, I agree that Magoo has this awfully effective way of getting under peoples clothes.

So that's what that is? I thought I had a rash.


From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
MasterDebator
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8643

posted 30 November 2005 05:52 PM      Profile for MasterDebator        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Magoo:
... where I chap and chafe and make people uncomfortable.

The entertainment never ends!


From: Goose Country Road, Prince George, BC | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Mandos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 888

posted 30 November 2005 06:13 PM      Profile for Mandos   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
What I see here is baiting, pure and simple, and a desire to get *back into* the crap many claim to not like. And it seems the feminism forum is being used to such ends. Maybe I've missed something, but it's been a good while since there's been a lot of ugliness in this forum. Seems some are spoiling for a fight.
Frankly, you can only see serious baiting in this thread if you really wanted to see baiting and were actually spoiling for a fight.

From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Crippled_Newsie
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7024

posted 30 November 2005 06:16 PM      Profile for Crippled_Newsie     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
So, fight or don't fight, already. Quit circling each other and snarling.
From: It's all about the thumpa thumpa. | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Reason
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9504

posted 30 November 2005 06:47 PM      Profile for Reason   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Fight? Where? I am too damned busy laughing over here to see any fight.

I know have this picture in my head (dispite not knowing what they look like) of a very confused pizza delivery guy standing in a door way with an extra large meat lovers pizza in his hands, and Michelle and RB salaciously trying to "tip" the guy. He is confused because, apparently they are both in thongs and high heels.

...

On a more serious note, there is porno to meet every desire out there. In fact, in keeping with this particular forum, there is even a more romantic kind, "soft porn" which spends more time in either an educational mode, or along the lines of a sensual erotica (the latter can be, not always, characterised by lack of penetration on view, these would be seen more like a Harlquin romance novel). Some of the directors (ladies) describe themselves as feminists (tho I suppose some would debate that, not I).

Try this sight for a cross section that touches on all most all tastes (warning, read the front page description first, the site does include pics of toys and videos).

Unless you are looking at a real sex ed film by a real sex therapist, chances are, the film has only one function... To create an arousal that leads to masturbation... As someone else described (RB that's you) the visuals are not necessarily things you should try at home (in fact, some have warnings indicating that this is not a good idea). Not all men, and not all women enjoy porno, or even sex. Some do, and others learned that you can make a lot of money doing something that a majority of people enjoy (even I say some of those positions look uncomfortable, and who wants a hot 1000 watt light buld singeing their private bits).


From: Ontario | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
MasterDebator
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8643

posted 30 November 2005 06:51 PM      Profile for MasterDebator        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Reason:
Unless you are looking at a real sex ed film by a real sex therapist, chances are, the film has only one function... To create an arousal that leads to masturbation... As someone else described (RB that's you) the visuals are not necessarily things you should try at home (in fact, some have warnings indicating that this is not a good idea).


Is this why porn films do not show people using condoms?


From: Goose Country Road, Prince George, BC | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 30 November 2005 06:53 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Actually, I have watched a lot of hardcore porn where people use condoms.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Reason
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9504

posted 30 November 2005 06:56 PM      Profile for Reason   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by MasterDebator:


Is this why porn films do not show people using condoms?



Actually, alot do now days. Some actors insist on it, even with long time porn partners.

And let me tell you. Look up Nina Hartly on the site I linked, she does an educational film that makes putting on a condom fun (it takes two even for that act with her).


From: Ontario | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4117

posted 30 November 2005 07:00 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The article is dumb. Without specific details (the definitions the reasearchers used, the conditions under which the study was conducted) we really can't discuss it in a serious way. I mean, what does Mr. Mckee mean by "realistic plots"?

Besides, none of us are saying, "you go mainstream porn, your the best!" We're mocking it, we're taking the piss out of patriarchy.


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4117

posted 30 November 2005 07:09 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
Actually there has been grant money disbursed to support the production of porn.

Are you sure, Cue?


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 30 November 2005 07:12 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh yes. There was a big flap about it a few years back. "Educatioinal videos" if you know what I mean.

Magoo will no doubt have the details.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4117

posted 30 November 2005 07:15 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Actually, alot do now days. Some actors insist on it, even with long time porn partners.

Do you actually see the male partener putting a condom on in the movie?


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6718

posted 30 November 2005 07:18 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:

Do you actually see the male partener putting a condom on in the movie?


No. I usually don't see them take their pants off either, but if I see them in one scene with their pants on, and the next one with them off, I'm pretty sure how it happened.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 30 November 2005 07:26 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:

Do you actually see the male partener putting a condom on in the movie?


In Backroom Facials, which is the epitomy of grossly sexist rape-porn on the internet, the condom is put on, and shown in penetration.

So, I think this issue, of the wearing or not wearing of condoms is moot, and unimportant.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469

posted 30 November 2005 08:42 PM      Profile for Mr. Magoo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Magoo will no doubt have the details.

Of course. It was a NFB animated short called "The Cat Came Back and Got His Funk On With Six Cheerleaders" and it cost the taxpayer $4 million dollars. In it the cat, naked except for black socks, was shown using a "French Letter", and parts of the movie were cut out in Ontario for showing "tail".


From: `,_,`,_,,_,, | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
MasterDebator
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8643

posted 30 November 2005 08:45 PM      Profile for MasterDebator        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
Actually, I have watched a lot of hardcore porn where people use condoms.


Really? Well, I am surprised, to the best of my knowledge the "industry" has rejected that as off-putting to their audience. Are these films European imports by any chance?


From: Goose Country Road, Prince George, BC | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 30 November 2005 08:47 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
On no, just sleezy american internet entrepaneurs. Apparently, the producers of the films aren't exctied about catching diseases, either.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
MasterDebator
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8643

posted 30 November 2005 09:04 PM      Profile for MasterDebator        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
On no, just sleezy american internet entrepaneurs. Apparently, the producers of the films aren't exctied about catching diseases, either.

OKay. Got a link?


From: Goose Country Road, Prince George, BC | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cartman
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7440

posted 30 November 2005 09:11 PM      Profile for Cartman        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Try to imagine my disappointment that you didn't show us a photo of yourself in your favourite heels and thong outfit, watching the hockey game and claiming the outfit was chosen for it's comfort factor.

And he even agreed didn't he?

From: Bring back Audra!!!!! | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4117

posted 30 November 2005 09:15 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by MasterDebator:

OKay. Got a link?



Are you serious?

From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
MasterDebator
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8643

posted 30 November 2005 09:16 PM      Profile for MasterDebator        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:

Are you serious?

It's called "I'll raise you one and see you".

Cards on the table, CMOT. Where's your link?


From: Goose Country Road, Prince George, BC | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 30 November 2005 09:21 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Well, what I would do, is I would download Kazaa lite, and then do a search for Backroom Facials, it is associated with BangBus, and Bangbrothers Productions and I think you would find the material you are looking for.

You could just go to the site itself via google search, but then you would have to register and pay, but if you go through Kazaa, you would get the film clips you wanted for free.

You might have to download 3 to 4 clips before you found one with an actual penetration shot, but if you are comitted to the project you should be able to find it.

Be warned though, my GF in San Diego, whom from all my dealings with her seemed quite demure, stumbled on the Backroom Facials stuff, quite unrelated to my discovery, and she suprised me when she said it was really "really hot," even if gross.

We tried to determine whether or not the setups were "real" or not, and we could not decide. However the "acting" just seems to be to good to be set up, so I think this is real finacial manipulation and abuse purveyed on the internet, and boderline rape.

I'd be interested in your opinion.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 30 November 2005 09:28 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
BTW, I am not playing poker. Or any kind of "game."

Frankly, as someone who has been intimate with the sex trade in various capacities on an off throughout my life, I have various opinions on what has been said here by you and others about it, and I have avoided the discussion because most of it is highly theoretical.

For instance I just spent the last to weeks sorting out bail and court appearances bail for my friends (pregnant) crack addicted girlfriend who sometimes works in the trade. That was not theoretical at all.

At one time, I had thought of putting my two cents in on the discussion here, but they seem so filled up with empty moralizing, without any kind of real sympathy for the people involved, and simply ideological jousting (from both sides,) so I didn't.

I just don't see how anything I could say here could even be entered into the evidence, without my personal feelings about my friends and intimates, some who have come to very bad ends might appear here, without being caught up in some bizarre ideological dispute.

I am relating information, and that is all.

You asked.

[ 30 November 2005: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4117

posted 30 November 2005 09:28 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I don't have a link. I don't like that kind of stuff.
You are asking for the most hardcore, violent abusive porn out there. I don't think Babble would allow someone to post a link to it.

From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hinterland
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4014

posted 30 November 2005 09:34 PM      Profile for Hinterland        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mandos:
Frankly, you can only see serious baiting in this thread if you really wanted to see baiting and were actually spoiling for a fight.

I'd really prefer it if writer were given moderator status explicitly. She's been acting as a moderator for quite some time now, condoning, condemning, cajoling...whatever...without the explicit status of moderator but with implicit status that she helped "create babble.", which not everyone is aware of, and even fewer people care about.

She's pissed off quite a few people now, and I think her status should be clarified on babble.

Until then, I won't be back.


From: Qubec/Ontario | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
MasterDebator
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8643

posted 30 November 2005 09:43 PM      Profile for MasterDebator        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:
I don't have a link. I don't like that kind of stuff.
You are asking for the most hardcore, violent abusive porn out there. I don't think Babble would allow someone to post a link to it.

It looks like you don't have the data you claimed.


From: Goose Country Road, Prince George, BC | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
MasterDebator
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8643

posted 30 November 2005 09:44 PM      Profile for MasterDebator        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
Well, what I would do, is I would download Kazaa lite, and then do a search for Backroom Facials, it is associated with BangBus, and Bangbrothers Productions and I think you would find the material you are looking for.

Well, sorry, but I don't have time for all that. Either a direct link or no go.


From: Goose Country Road, Prince George, BC | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 30 November 2005 09:46 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Too bad. You really are full of shit.

You can spend all day here spinning your stupid uninformed theories, but when it comes down to actually looking at what it is that you like to say you know about, you come up with 2 of clubs as your high card.

[ 30 November 2005: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4117

posted 30 November 2005 09:51 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What? What information? It was Cue who started this. Please stop playing headgames.

quote:
It looks like you don't have the data you claimed.


[ 30 November 2005: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Makwa
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 10724

posted 30 November 2005 09:57 PM      Profile for Makwa   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by writer:
Thank you thank you thank you, Makwa!
You welcome. And now I get the 'wads' thingy. Eeeew. Oh, and BTW, my previous post was not hyperbole, it was spicy rhetoric. This is hyperbole: All the goddamn racism and sexism on this board makes me want to spew my fucking fish sticks onto my LCD screen thereby burning stinking fetid holes into the delicate membrane! Now that is hyperbole. Thenk yew.

From: Here at the glass - all the usual problems, the habitual farce | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 30 November 2005 09:57 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
No she asked for link.

Don't worry she is just trying to smere you.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
MasterDebator
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8643

posted 30 November 2005 10:06 PM      Profile for MasterDebator        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
Too bad. You really are full of shit.

You can spend all day here spinning your stupid uninformed theories, but when it comes down to actually looking at what it is that you like to say you know about, you come up with 2 of clubs as your high card.

[ 30 November 2005: Message edited by: Cueball ]


Yeah, right.


From: Goose Country Road, Prince George, BC | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
MasterDebator
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8643

posted 30 November 2005 10:08 PM      Profile for MasterDebator        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
No she asked for link.

Don't worry she is just trying to smere you.


Well, to tell you the truth, I forget who said they knew of films available on line that had actors who used condoms. I think in fact that more than one person claimed this. So fine, someone, anyone, provide a link.

I am quite sure that most porn magazines and videos do not use condoms.


From: Goose Country Road, Prince George, BC | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 30 November 2005 10:08 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Absolutely right.

I have given you explicit information on how to find hardcore rape/porn which features men wearing condoms. You asked for it, repeatedly.

There you go.

It is simple: You can't handle the truth.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 30 November 2005 10:09 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Okay, everyone, why don't we step back for a moment.

First of all, one thing I think writer is correct about is that the baiting remarks about thongs and high heels are unnecessary, and seem only to have been posted in order to stir up old fights again. I think that needs to stop, in this thread and in others where those things are not directly relevant to the matter at hand.

Now, regarding Cueball and MD's argument - it's not like we're going to start linking to Bang Bus and stuff like that, so, no, obviously we're not going to be able to prove our assertions with links to XXX porn here.

I think that if several people claim they've seen condoms used in porn (I have as well, although I've seen more porn without condoms than with them, probably because I've seen more older porn from years ago than the newer stuff out now) then we don't have to call them liars if they don't actually link to the stuff. Cueball has given specific sources and even how to get to it if anyone is really dying to see it for themselves, and I think that's enough "proof" for the purposes of this discussion.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
MasterDebator
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8643

posted 01 December 2005 03:43 AM      Profile for MasterDebator        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Cueball:
Absolutely right.

I have given you explicit information on how to find hardcore rape/porn which features men wearing condoms. You asked for it, repeatedly.

There you go.

It is simple: You can't handle the truth.


Pardon me, it's getting late, but what kind of nonsense is this?


From: Goose Country Road, Prince George, BC | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 01 December 2005 05:33 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Forget it. Its all in what I posted above.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 01 December 2005 11:16 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This has gone on long enough, I think.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged

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