look here

Look at bottom of page pwease

[ 18 February 2006: Message edited by: kiwi_chick ]

For some who play that game and do the 24/7 thing, a contract is often used though it isnt really legally binding.

Look to contract in the Wikipedia listing here:

contracts

While I dont know if that is what this is in this particular case, it sure looks like one of such. If that is the case, it was willingly signed.

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Originally posted by C.Morgan:
Actually, that contract looks very much like some I have seen drafted in the BDSM world.

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Originally posted by Raos:
Very rarely are those a 24/7 kind of deal, and this doesn't sound to me like he OR she (and definitely not she) gets off on power play. He just expects that he has the right to control everything about her. I find it disgusting.

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If that is the case, it is simply spousal abuse.

Just pointing out what it appeared to look like.

Many on here were wondering who on earth would ever sign something like that.

People of both genders who are heavily into the BDSM world sign such all the time and fully willingly.

[ 18 February 2006: Message edited by: C.Morgan ]

Gor vs. BDSM

I did a quick read of this, on page two the author speculates on why a person would make themselves a slave.

I tend to think that whatever consenting adults do is their own business, but then I put a high premium on the deffinition of consent.

If, for example, a person has such low self esteem that they would assign themselves to slavery, I'd not consider that "consent." To consent to something, one must be of sound mind.

I think these contract things are a statement by the so called "Master" that they don't want to think too hard about "consent" and just want to paper over it, so to speak.

From a feminist perspective, I think I'd be safe in saying that women who enslave themselves are not, and cannot be, feminists.

But, on the other hand, people play around in the bedroom and I think it doesn't often have much to say about who they are outside the bedroom.

Others think differently, of course. And I'm going to run away from here before they open up a can of whoop ass on me.

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Originally posted by S1m0n:
Psst: even in kink, it's ALL make believe. No one is really actually a slave, and barring exceptional cases, everyone's doing what turns them on because it turns them on to do it.

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Originally posted by Winston Smith:

So's the contract. Check out Snopes.com. It's all fake.

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Originally posted by reuben:

Don't see it on Snopes...can you provide a link?

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The article, whether true or not - turns my stomach.

Anyone ever see this Comedy Central skit? The way some of the audience members hoot and holler at the concept of 'wife school' makes me wonder if Travis Frey and his buddies were in the audience that day.

[ 22 February 2006: Message edited by: Accidental Altruist ]

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Originally posted by Yst:
I suspect the poster in question is merely trolling.

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I can provide a link to that!

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Originally posted by Michelle:
Oh Jebus, Battlestar Galactica. That was the big bug in the ear that Jay Williams and all of his 101 aliases had. And now I see that Dear Winston has been blaming "the left" for supporting gulags and other shit like that in other forums. And I just checked his IP address, and sure enough...
Yes, Jay, you really are checking out. Buh-bye.

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http://tinyurl.com/zjpcm

[ 22 February 2006: Message edited by: Reality. Bites. ]

Link.

It astounds me that guys like this manage to exist out there -- although he's many degrees less harmless than this Frey guy.

[ 22 February 2006: Message edited by: Timebandit ]

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It astounds me that guys like this manage to exist out there

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With 6 billion people on the planet, I don't think that's the surprising part.

Also, from the other blurb below, it says that he hasn't worn his wedding ring for a year, and won't tell his wife why. Golly, now what reasons could we POSSIBLY come up with for why a husband refuses to wear a wedding ring, but won't say why. Gee, I can't imagine!

[ 22 February 2006: Message edited by: Michelle ]

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Originally posted by C.Morgan:
Actually, that contract looks very much like some I have seen drafted in the BDSM world.

For some who play that game and do the 24/7 thing, a contract is often used though it isnt really legally binding.

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The idea of kidnapping a woman and turning her into a slave is also a fantasy for some BDSM types.

If I were to guess, my guess would be that this kidnapping attempt, like the "contract", was part of this guy's sexual fantasy... something that his wife obviously wasn't onboard with. In real life, he's Walter Mitty, but in his fantasy life, he's MASTER TRAVIS. That would be my guess, at least.

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Originally posted by Timebandit:
One of the clips was him lecturing her on where she puts the mop in the pantry. She stashes it behind the door, he felt it should go just at the edge of where the door opens, a total of about 2 to 3 feet difference. Something about how much body rotation (45 degrees as opposed to 90) needed to reach them and the consequent improvement in efficiency. With that kind of nitpicking, that mop should be jammed firmly up his ass.

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I wouldn't be surprised if he has something like Aspergers. He's very bright but very odd. Some of the things on the list included arranging the furniture, cooking Mexican food, and learning to dance to rap. Weird and funny, but not cruel. And frankly I don't think the wife is such an idiot that she would stick it out if he was really awful. She get's some digs in at home, she bought hideous pink curtains for the living room to get under his skin.

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This guy just seems very, very, very focused on process in everything. Aspergers? Maybe but there could be other things at work here.

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He is an engineer.

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(the 'holding the ring as hostage' thing is kind of a clue there - that's manipulation of the cruelest sort).

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I initially thought it was cruel too, but I think he doesn’t even really get why he won’t put it back on. I think it’s a combination of petulance and hurt feelings. The ring has just become a symbol for his bruised ego and pride.

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There may be a LOT of things that go on in this relationship when the cameras are off that we would not know.

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Which also leads me to question what they do show and how it’s edited in the first place. It makes better TV to villanize the husband.

I don't think being an engineer is a good enough reason for the guy to be as he is. I know a few engineers and never noticed extreme housekeeping to be a typical interest. Asperger's, maybe. He really doesn't seem to understand, but there's also some serious manipulation going on. I don't know if that's usual with Asperger's.

As for the pink curtains... Well, he wanted her to put more effort into window treatments. Maybe it's just a case of "be careful what you wish for".

I didn't realize America was full of such perfect marriages!

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Originally posted by Mr. Magoo:
Of what?

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Originally posted by Scout:
Want to be really weirded out, read Dr. Phil's forum. The post directed at this guy are harsh. And he's answering some of them!

I didn't realize America was full of such perfect marriages!

Becarful with this link, it involves sticking your hands in the crazy!

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Yeah, I've been watching it since yesterday, off and on. He comes off even worse on message board than tv. He still very much sees himself as victimized by his wife and her noncompliance.

the second issue is the content of the contract and the more we know about the expectations [in this case the master/slave roles referred to in previous posts appears accurate] flowing from this relationship the more likely we are to realize this is NOT where we want to be.

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Originally posted by otter:
In this particular instance i have very little empathy for the woman since she was well informed - never sign what you could come to regret - before she got married to the guy and chose to marry him anyways. Now she wants to cry foul? Hell, the reek emanating from the "contract" should have been more than enough to send her packing or even to start packing a weapon.

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uh...

first off, is there any reason to think this "contract" was presented to her before she married him? I couldn't be bothered to wade through "Dr Phil" unless lives depended on it, so maybe that's been established elsewhere... but to me it seems more likely that he presented her with this later on in their marriage when he decided that vanilla stuff wasn't floating his boat anymore.

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The guy participating on the boards had a kind of surreality to it

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Agreed. It's kind of like 'Intimate relationship' meets 'Town Hall meeting'.

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Originally posted by Timebandit:
I think otter means the Frey's ex-wife, the woman who was kidnapped... Is that right, otter?

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Originally posted by kimmy:

And to say that women who ought to know better than to stay with dangerous men don't deserve our sympathy... well, that would be turning our backs on an awful lot of abused women.

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This is a feminist issue.

There are a multitude of reasons why women often take time to break free of abusive relationships. Experienced counsellors - well, feminist ones, anyway - know that, and seldom start off by telling an abused woman what to do unless they sense immediate danger. They certainly don't start off by telling her how stupid and/or irresponsible she has been to get into the situation in the first place or feel trapped by it for a time.

The whole Dr Phil situation seems bizarre and unhelpful to me. It's as though either one of these people needs some kind of public consensus to get her/his mind clear about her/his own feelings and needs. I fail to see the wisdom in that.