babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » walking the talk   » labour and consumption   » Prayer vigil for fired United Church minister

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: Prayer vigil for fired United Church minister
unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323

posted 03 June 2008 09:30 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
CAW & Clergy United Hold Solidarity Prayer Vigil for Fired Reverend

quote:
HAMILTON, ON, June 3 /CNW/ - An outdoor solidarity prayer vigil will be held this evening in support of Rev. Dr. Robert Matton, who faces termination by the United Church of Canada. CAW President Buzz Hargrove will also be in attendance joining members of the CAW & United Church Clergy Union organizing drive.

Supporters will then move inside the church to show support during the meeting of the Hamilton Presbytery, which will vote on ratifying Matton's congregation's decision to terminate his job.

Supporters (clergy, family, lay people and CAW members) of Matton will be in attendance, limited to approximately 20 people so as not to disrupt the proceedings.

Supporters will be easy to spot in blue T-shirts reading CAW & Clergy United.

Matton has been publicly criticized and censured by members of his pastoral charge for his open support of a union for United Church clergy.

<<
WHERE: Delta United Church, 47 Ottawa Street South, Hamilton, Ontario

WHEN: Today at 4:45 p.m. Presbyters will start arriving at 5 p.m. for a 5:30 p.m. dinner held inside the church.

WHY: To stand in solidarity with Matton against clergy abuse and the injustices committed by the church against clergy.
>>

At approximately 6:20 p.m., Matton's supporters will move inside the church to be with Matton for the Presbytery meeting. Matton and his partner, Lois, will both address the Presbytery court and speak about clergy abuse, injustice, the impact on the minister and his family, and the need for a clergy union.

Matton is not asking Presbyters to overturn his congregations' decision to terminate his job, but requesting that the Presbyters abstain from voting as a show of support. Presbytery is an open meeting.


[ 03 June 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Caissa
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12752

posted 03 June 2008 10:12 AM      Profile for Caissa     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm presuming its illegal in Ontario to fire someone for union activity.
From: Saint John | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged
Erstwhile
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4845

posted 03 June 2008 11:31 AM      Profile for Erstwhile     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
I'm presuming its illegal in Ontario to fire someone for union activity.


Yep, s. 72 of the Ontario Labour Relations Act:

quote:
Employers not to interfere with employees’ rights

72. No employer, employers’ organization or person acting on behalf of an employer or an employers’ organization,

(a) shall refuse to employ or to continue to employ a person, or discriminate against a person in regard to employment or any term or condition of employment because the person was or is a member of a trade union or was or is exercising any other rights under this Act;

(b) shall impose any condition in a contract of employment or propose the imposition of any condition in a contract of employment that seeks to restrain an employee or a person seeking employment from becoming a member of a trade union or exercising any other rights under this Act; or

(c) shall seek by threat of dismissal, or by any other kind of threat, or by the imposition of a pecuniary or other penalty, or by any other means to compel an employee to become or refrain from becoming or to continue to be or to cease to be a member or officer or representative of a trade union or to cease to exercise any other rights under this Act. 1995, c. 1, Sched. A, s. 72.



From: Deepest Darkest Saskabush | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323

posted 03 June 2008 01:06 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Does anyone know the ins and outs of this?

Who is the legal employer - the congregation, the Church?

Is there a reverse onus in Ontario law, i.e. does the employer have to prove they're firing him for some other reason?

Is this even viewed as an employment relationship under the law (of course it should be, but I don't know...)?


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
remind
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6289

posted 03 June 2008 01:22 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
When I was an active member and participant of the UCC, the congregation was the employer of the minister, sort of.

Nowadays, I would imagine it was the same.


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Le Téléspectateur
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7126

posted 03 June 2008 01:49 PM      Profile for Le Téléspectateur     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think that Kevin Annett would tell you that the UCC is the employer and not the congregation.
From: More here than there | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
remind
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6289

posted 03 June 2008 02:03 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There are instances where the UCC's, ruling is absolute, which is why I say sort of. The congregation can ask for a new minister, and can decide from a list of candidateds whom they would like.

There are also many shared ministries today between the UCC and Anglican also.


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Boom Boom
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7791

posted 03 June 2008 02:23 PM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I've seen attempts by ACC clergy over the years try to introduce the idea of a union for clergy, usually once every decade this question gets raised, but I've never seen anything come of it. I think if a larger denomination like the UCC were to take the lead on this, then the ACC would follow, although there are a lot of conservative clergy in both denominations who would definitely try to shoot down the idea.
From: Make the rich pay! | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged
Coyote
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4881

posted 03 June 2008 02:53 PM      Profile for Coyote   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm United, but I know nothing about this case at all. I'm always wary of anything attached with Buzz's name, but that's my own prejudice and says nothing about the particulars of this.

I will raise it with my Minister.


From: O’ for a good life, we just might have to weaken. | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 03 June 2008 03:08 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
Is this even viewed as an employment relationship under the law (of course it should be, but I don't know...)?

Well, from my years as a church administrator, I know that the pastors and I were considered employees of the congregation, and our paycheques were like any other ones, with taxes taken out, EI, CPP and other premiums paid by the church, etc. We were employers.

Whether it's the congregation or the denomination that employs the minister, as far as I'm concerned, it's an employment situation. I am pretty sure that most churches don't have a "contracting" situation with their pastors. They're employees.

And if this information in the opening post is true, it's damned outrageous!


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
ElizaQ
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9355

posted 03 June 2008 03:25 PM      Profile for ElizaQ     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There has been an official unionizing movement amongst UC clergy since around 2004. It remember it being quite a debate amongst some congregations and between clergy. In 2005 an official organizing drive failed to get the 60% they wanted in Ontario. Not sure what has happened since then as it's been off my radar.
In terms of employers the clergy are employed through the the respective churches and the local Presbytery but as Remind said the congregation has a lot of say over who it is. It's a joint affair though. So when a congregation wants a new minister they can do the advertising and interviewing and say this is who'd we like but the final agreement goes through the Presbytery. The same with if there's a problem with a minister, there's a whole lot of reviews and official regs and things that have to be gone through and as far as I remember it a congregation can't simply call a meeting one day and fire a Minister. There has to be good grounds for doing so I expect the 'official' grounds cited don't have anything to do with his unionizing activities. I expect though that people understand how 'unofficially' those things can work.

Likely a dispute has been going on for while and it reached the point of the final vote part which just needs the ratification of the Presbytery. Hence the call for support put out today focusing on that part of the process.
I would expect that since it's now hit the media that someone will issue a rather diplomatic statement that the firing has nothing to do with his 'unionizing.'


From: Eastern Lakes | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca