quote:

---

BEIJING–Chinese Olympic officials announced yesterday they will designate three city parks, far from the Bird's Nest National stadium – the focal point of the Games – where protesters can air their grievances during the Olympics.

But the protesters must get permission from the police and abide by Chinese regulations.

---

quote:

---

From the Star article: "But the protesters must get permission from the police and abide by Chinese regulations."

---

Western critics will make as much hay as possible over this. But, do you know what? It's the responsible thing to do given the high safety risk that an unexpected swell of protestors could pose to athletes and everyone else at the Olympic events. Chaos in the stadium could be excellent cover for Western-backed operatives to shoot people, set off bombs, or worse. That's how the Chinese security people look at this thing.

News media will be all over those gatherings in the parks, too. It's not like whatever protestors have to say won't get out.

I found this related news piece from the Vancover Sun, that reports on a call issued to Canadian (and other) Athletes to make some kind of gesture during the Olympic Games to show support for the Tibetian theocratists.

quote:

---

Athletes under pressure to stage a protest on the podium
Tibetan activists aim to use Olympics to gain publicity for their cause
Daphne Bramham, Vancouver Sun
Published: Thursday, July 24, 2008

Canadian athletes are being urged by human rights activists to use the Olympics as an opportunity for non-violent protests over China's human rights' record.

Athletes are being offered information packets about Tibetan independence to take to Beijing, even though the Chinese government has specifically banned all political materials from coming into the country.

They're being encouraged to do something symbolic, such as wearing orange, a Tibetan scarf, an independence bracelet or dedicating their medals to the cause of human rights, making a T for Tibet sign with their hands, or even shaving their heads -- which will be a bit confusing since many swimmers do it to literally shave time. There's even a website, AthleteWanted.org.

---

Full story at Canada.com

quote:

---

Originally posted by Robespierre:

Western critics will make as much hay as possible over this. But, do you know what? It's the responsible thing to do given the high safety risk that an unexpected swell of protestors could pose to athletes and everyone else at the Olympic events. Chaos in the stadium could be excellent cover for Western-backed operatives to shoot people, set off bombs, or worse. That's how the Chinese security people look at this thing.

---

Sounds a lot like the excuses that Western authorities make when trying to limit protest rights here.... sounds exactly like the excuses they have made at most protests I have been at.

quote:

---

Chaos in the stadium could be excellent cover for Western-backed operatives to shoot people, set off bombs, or worse. That's how the Chinese security people look at this thing.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stargazer:

But there is this....which, if true, would be a rather bad thing to happen and given the western animosity toward the Chinese government, it's very possible.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ghislaine:
And given the animosity of many in the world towards Westerners it is possible that attacks will happen here. That is the current justification being used to limit our civil liberties here and to a much greater extent in the US.

---

You know, if Canada experienced mass rioting, arson, and ethnic-based murders in the lead-up to the 2010 games (as China did earlier this year), and if the torch marathon had come under violent attack in various cities abroad, and if there were an international campaign calling on foreign athletes to demonstrate against Canadian actions while in Vancouver, I would certainly support the Canadian authorities imposing restrictions on demonstrations for the duration of the games.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stargazer:
I trust Robespierre's credentials so I'm going out on a limb for him. Better to wait until he jumps in (for me anyways). But I do understand and get what you have said.

---

When they first were given the Olympics in 2001, a mere 12 years after the Tianamen Square massacre, they promised to improve human rights.

Instead, they have shown that they will jail dissenters.

And as a Canadian, the excuses around security sound all too familiar. I am cynically certain that Aboriginal protesters of the 2010 games are going to face similar restrictions and repression and I hope that no one here tries to justify that as well.

[ 25 July 2008: Message edited by: Ghislaine ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by unionist:

You know, if Canada experienced mass rioting, arson, and ethnic-based murders in the lead-up to the 2010 games (as China did earlier this year), and if the torch marathon had come under violent attack in various cities abroad, and if there were an international campaign calling on foreign athletes to demonstrate against Canadian actions while in Vancouver, I would certainly support the Canadian authorities imposing restrictions on demonstrations for the duration of the games.

Wouldn't you, Ghislaine?

---

I hope that there will be an international campaign to demonstrate against Canada's treatment of aboriginal people, as it is embarassing.

Read about it here.

Now it appears US methods are helping the Chinese in stifling dissent.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ghislaine:

I hope that there will be an international campaign to demonstrate against Canada's treatment of aboriginal people, as it is embarassing.

The reasoning is still the same. thousands of people's deaths on 9/11 are being used to justify restrictions on civil liberties. I don't support those. Violence should be illegal, not peaceful protest of political speech.

---

(Robespierre waves his Mao hat to Stargazer)

Ghislaine, the reasoning is not the same, though some of the end results of restrictions are, such as, anyone can't do anything he or she pleases. This is a good thing from a safety standpoint.

For the safety of the Olympic athletes and others attending the games, the Chinese government is restricting some activities. For reasons I have already stated, and the additional ones that Star and Unionist mentioned, the restrictions placed on protests seems practical, and reasonable. If the Chinese government intended to disallow any form of expression of political disent during the Olympics, maybe your blanket rejection of anything the Chinese are doing or not doing would make some kind of sense, but this is not the case.

quote:

---

And as a Canadian, the excuses around security sound all too familiar.

---

The measures the Chinese government is taking sound similar to those undertaken by our government during major international events (such as G8 meetings and the Summit of the Americas). These measures are wrong when our government does them; logically they are also wrong in China.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
It has come out that Chinese methods helped to train American interrogators in the art of torture.

Read about it here.

Now it appears US methods are helping the Chinese in stifling dissent.

While the elites of both nations may be jockeying for position at the top of the global hill, it seems they are prepared to learn from each other to combat the real threats to each other's interests: the people.

---

What about the three public parks where dissent is allowed?

The restrictions at the Olympic Games site itself are reasonable considering events that have taken place in China (see Unionist's comments above) and if you just use plain, old horse sense you must agree that maintaining order at a hugh public event is the right thing to do.

quote:

---

Originally posted by It's Me D:

The measures the Chinese government is taking sound similar to those undertaken by our government during major international events (such as G8 meetings and the Summit of the Americas). These measures are wrong when our government does them; logically they are also wrong in China.

The most disgusting part is the media coverage of such measures however, when our government uses them they are totally justifiable in the eyes of our media yet when the Chinese government uses them it is evidence that they are not "democratic". What exactly makes these measures to silence the voices of the people democratic here in Canada?

---

quote:

---

The restrictions at the Olympic Games site itself are reasonable considering events that have taken place in China (see Unionist's comments above) and if you just use plain, old horse sense you must agree that maintaining order at a hugh public event is the right thing to do.

---

quote:

---

There's really no comparing the wide open Olympics Games and those dirty, little meetings behind closed doors.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by It's Me D:

I've never been involved in a protest action in China but over here the measures taken by the authorities to "maintain order" are usually the reason for "disorderly" conduct on behalf of protesters. If the people were invited to speak their minds, instead of being forcibly silenced, what would they have to be so upset about?

---

You aren't making any sense, help me to understand.

quote:

---

If Free Tibet advocates are being allowed to set up in three public park how is this forcibly silencing them?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by It's Me D:

Perhaps you are right, as the Olympics is a "wide open" event there is even less excuse for curbing public expression therein then there would be at those "dirty, little meetings behind closed doors."

---

I am right.

quote:

---

Who said public expression was being curbed? If you attend the Olympic Games and wish to wear a "I heart Dalai Lama" button, or shave your head, or wear an orange scarf, or any other form of personal expression that dosen't risk causing a crowd to stampede in chaos and trample a few hundred innocent people, well, I guess you can.

---

So would you also guess that I could hold up a sign denouncing the Chinese government and stand immediately outside a sporting venue, or hand out fliers to that effect to persons attending the Olympic events as they enter/exit a venue? All without "causing a crowd to stampede in chaos and trample a few hundred innocent people" mind you ? If so I'm pretty sure you've guessed wrong (feel free to post a link saying something to the contrary).

I have two other things to add:

1) You'd be better off avoiding such demeaning scare tactics as suggesting that allowing for free speech and freedom of expression "give(s) terrorists a golden opportunity to set off a bomb"; leave that for the assholes who govern our continent.

quote:

---

Who said public expression was being curbed? If you attend the Olympic Games and wish to wear a "I heart Dalai Lama" button, or shave your head, or wear an orange scarf, or any other form of personal expression that dosen't risk causing a crowd to stampede in chaos and trample a few hundred innocent people, well, I guess you can. But, if you want to have the right to stop a sporting event in order to express a political point of view, and in disrupting the event thereby give terrorists a golden opportunity to set off a bomb or worse, well, I guess you can't.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by It's Me D:

So would you also guess that I could hold up a sign denouncing the Chinese government and stand immediately outside a sporting venue, or hand out fliers to that effect to persons attending the Olympic events as they enter/exit a venue? All without "causing a crowd to stampede in chaos and trample a few hundred innocent people" mind you ? If so I'm pretty sure you've guessed wrong (feel free to post a link saying something to the contrary).

I have two other things to add:

1) You'd be better off avoiding such demeaning scare tactics as suggesting that allowing for free speech and freedom of expression "give(s) terrorists a golden opportunity to set off a bomb"; leave that for the assholes who govern our continent.

2) Have a look back over some past threads, you'll find that I actually support China's stance on the issues being protested; that doesn't stop me from standing up for the rights of the people there (as I stand for those of the people here). China would be better off if it re-learned how to respect its people; its a leason our governments never learned.

---

quote:

---

You are projecting what I'm saying to infinity, to all cases, any where at any time.

---

I'm projecting nothing beyond the Beijing Olympics of 2008.

quote:

---

I don't see the use of discussing this with you

---

That's your prerogative of course.

quote:

---

it's as if you were talking to someone else

---

I've been responding to you and you know it.

quote:

---

this is the chain reaction that many western editors hope for when they publish stories like these.

---

Another cheap shot. If "western editors" would be pleased with anything in our discussion its your willingness to rely on shadow fears of terrorism to crack down on the people; its a favorite of theirs.

Yeah, I criticized China, I don't do it often but when it is deserved I won't shy away; that doesn't mean I support the agendas of those protesting at the Olympics and it also doesn't mean I'm shying away from condemning our North American governments for likewise cracking down on free speech and free expression (which is clear from my posts).

[ 25 July 2008: Message edited by: It's Me D ]

quote:

---

I was really hoping that some of our more "conservative" posters would drop by to explain how these measures are distinct from American "Free Speech zones" in the Chinese context. It would be entertaining.

---

[ 26 July 2008: Message edited by: aka Mycroft ]