babble home
rabble.ca - news for the rest of us
today's active topics


Post New Topic  Post A Reply
FAQ | Forum Home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» babble   » current events   » international news and politics   » For God____and Country

Email this thread to someone!    
Author Topic: For God____and Country
CMOT Dibbler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4117

posted 26 November 2007 03:27 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
When will the British Monarchy be desolved? The royal family has no real governmental powers. The institution of the monarchy keeps a decadent, talentless bunch of elitist donkeys ensconced in a luxurious cacoon they don't deserve. When will the British government give the queen the boot and redistribute the wealth of Britain's royal houses?
From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Bacchus
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4722

posted 26 November 2007 08:37 PM      Profile for Bacchus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Never, quite frankly because it is too much a part of british Identity (whether speaking for or against)

Plus on a simple economic level, its too much of a draw for their tourist trade and trash magazines and news shows.


From: n/a | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4117

posted 27 November 2007 02:17 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
But never is a very long time. Haven't some people been saying that the monarchy won't last beyond the Queen's death?

[ 27 November 2007: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Bacchus
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4722

posted 27 November 2007 03:13 PM      Profile for Bacchus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Very true, though they said it when Edward VIII renounced the throne and when George VI died.

It happens all the time at either a death of a loved monarch (or hated) or a particularly turbulent time.
But the need the cash the tourists bring in way too much.


From: n/a | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
lookstheile
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14763

posted 27 November 2007 03:57 PM      Profile for lookstheile     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, actually, unlike many politicians, the Royal Family is born and raised to govern, and the current Queen is extremely well versed in matters of state.

The problem with your theory about giving "the queen the boot" is that it would be an extremely unpopular move. The majority of the British people still support the monarchy, and the monarchy is an integral aspect of the British tourist industry and economy as a whole.

I dare say that there any better alternatives out there; if you look at what republics like the USA tend to become, or what other political experiments like communism and fascism have produced, it looks to me that constitutional monarchies is probably the most stable and progressive form of government that man can devise.

Yeah, it really sucks that some people can live so oppulent. I'm certainly not all that wealthy, but I can still appreciate the fact that the institution of monarchy can produce a better society than an republic or communist regime can offer.

quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:
When will the British Monarchy be desolved? The royal family has no real governmental powers. The institution of the monarchy keeps a decadent, talentless bunch of elitist donkeys ensconced in a luxurious cacoon they don't deserve. When will the British government give the queen the boot and redistribute the wealth of Britain's royal houses?

From: Buckingham Palace | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4117

posted 27 November 2007 04:03 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I dare say that there any better alternatives out there; if you look at what republics like the USA tend to become...

What about France? It hasn't gone down the shitter.


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
lookstheile
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14763

posted 27 November 2007 04:12 PM      Profile for lookstheile     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:

What about France? It hasn't gone down the shitter.


Oh, yeah, you're right; it's not like it's been having race riots (again) for the last couple of days, right?

Sarkozy is W.'s new best friend, isn't he? Now that Howard has been turfed, and Stevie's on his way out, pretty soon the once so immaturely reviled French will be all that the USA has got left. Oh, the irony!


From: Buckingham Palace | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4117

posted 27 November 2007 04:27 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Oh, yeah, you're right; it's not like it's been having race riots (again) for the last couple of days, right?


Having the decendants of debotched, lazy, feudally apointed morons on the throne has helped Britain avoid racist violence?

[ 28 November 2007: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
lookstheile
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14763

posted 27 November 2007 05:55 PM      Profile for lookstheile     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:

Having the decendants of debotched lazy feudally apointed morons on the throne has helped Britain avoid racist violence?


I believe that the monarchy has a positive influence on British politics and society, and this has resulted in a society that is more tolerant of ethnic minorities than France. Anyone who knows anything about Frances knows how anal they can be about their language and culture.

I'm not sure who these "decendants of debotched lazy feudally apointed morons" are. Do you think you could enlighten me without being crude and ignorant about it?


From: Buckingham Palace | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4117

posted 27 November 2007 06:30 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I believe that the monarchy has a positive influence on British politics and society, and this has resulted in a society that is more tolerant of ethnic minorities than France.

How?
Having the queen didn't stop Ulster Loyalists from mistreating Ulster Catholics. It didn't prevent the formation of the national front or the creation of the anti muslim fervor which is currently sweeping the U.K. What anti racism legislation there is was created by elected officials and not by Elizibeth Windsor.

[ 28 November 2007: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594

posted 27 November 2007 06:46 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by lookstheile:

I believe that the monarchy has a positive influence on British politics and society, and this has resulted in a society that is more tolerant of ethnic minorities than France?


I think "dark forces" were at work in getting rid of Rasputin ... and Diana. Liz and Phil couldn't stand the thought of having a swarthy Arab in the family.

RA RA RASPUTIN
Lover of the Russian queen
They put some poison into his wine
RA RA RASPUTIN
Russia's greatest love machine
He drank it all and he said "I feel fine"


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Martha (but not Stewart)
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12335

posted 27 November 2007 07:07 PM      Profile for Martha (but not Stewart)     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:
What anti racism legislation there is was created by elected officials and not by Elizibeth Windsor.

It is no longer, thank goodness, the monarch's job to create legislation.


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
lookstheile
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14763

posted 27 November 2007 07:13 PM      Profile for lookstheile     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Exactly. I said "positive influence". Anyone who understands Cathicism knows that it's very existence is contrary to the teachings of Christ, which is why the Protestant Reformation occured. In upholding protestantism in Great Britain, the monarchy has had a positive influence.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "anti-Muslim fervor" because the people of Great Britain have every right to be concerned about the intentions of the Islamists among them. I'm by no means saying that there is a problem with Islam as a whole; most Muslims in England are peaceable and good citizens; but there is a large and vocal group that doesn't respect the rights of their fellow citizens; they are sympathetic to and some intend to carry out attacks as happen in the Middle East--even if it means killing other Muslims.

The Queen is very concerned about racial tension in Great Britain, and is concerned about the well-being of all members of her Kingdom.

quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:

How?
Having the queen didn't stop Ulster Loyalists from mistreating Ulster Catholics. It didn't prevent the formation of the national front or the creation of the anti muslim furver which is currently sweeping the U.K. What anti racism legislation there is was created by elected officials and not by Elizibeth Windsor.


From: Buckingham Palace | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged
lookstheile
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14763

posted 27 November 2007 07:18 PM      Profile for lookstheile     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well, there's no evidence for that--much to the contrary, in fact. It was just a tragic accident, the result of immediate circumstances and poor judgement on the part of the driver.

The Royal Family's concern with her relationships had nothing to do with race; she was behaving quite irresponsibly with the children, and they were concerned about the well-being of the future King(s). She wanted to brainwash them into being "normal" children, something they could never be, and something she never was having been a Spencer. She was simply mentally unstable.

Besides, anyone who knows anything about the situation knows that she had to interest in the guy; she was just using him to make another man she was interested in jealous.

quote:
Originally posted by Fidel:

I think "dark forces" were at work in getting rid of Rasputin ... and Diana. Liz and Phil couldn't stand the thought of having a swarthy Arab in the family.

RA RA RASPUTIN
Lover of the Russian queen
They put some poison into his wine
RA RA RASPUTIN
Russia's greatest love machine
He drank it all and he said "I feel fine"



From: Buckingham Palace | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged
lookstheile
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14763

posted 27 November 2007 07:21 PM      Profile for lookstheile     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, the last thing we need are people who are concerned about the environment, organic foods and agriculture, anti-poverty, historical and architectural preservation, art, culture, etc. etc. from being in a position to crete legislation. Meanwhile, thanks to Blair, Great Britain is going down the tubes and has sent troops to engage in Imperialist wars. Isn't that ironic!?

quote:
Originally posted by Martha (but not Stewart):

It is no longer, thank goodness, the monarch's job to create legislation.



From: Buckingham Palace | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged
Nanuq
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8229

posted 27 November 2007 07:30 PM      Profile for Nanuq   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What would it mean for Canada if the monarchy were abolished? What would we be replacing the Governor General with? A president?
From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
lookstheile
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14763

posted 27 November 2007 07:39 PM      Profile for lookstheile     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Probably not. I wouldn't be surprised if the office of deputy prime minister became more of an issue. But that's really neither here nor there; the monarchy won't be abolished.

quote:
Originally posted by Nanuq:
What would we be replacing the Governor General with? A president?

From: Buckingham Palace | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5594

posted 27 November 2007 07:39 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by lookstheile:
Well, there's no evidence for that--much to the contrary, in fact. It was just a tragic accident, the result of immediate circumstances and poor judgement on the part of the driver.

So what's with the trail of dead people since the "accident"? It's reminiscent of the three dozen witnesses to the JFK assassination who mysteriously turned up dead.

And why was
Diana's body embalmed?


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4117

posted 27 November 2007 07:50 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
So what's with the trail of dead people since the "accident"? It's reminiscent of the three dozen witnesses to the JFK assassination who mysteriously turned up dead.

*le sigh*


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Le Téléspectateur
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7126

posted 27 November 2007 08:03 PM      Profile for Le Téléspectateur     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I think that for a state to exist it needs to remove power from communities and individuals, stick it all somewhere (queen, president, chairman, pharaoh) and then portion it out with things like laws and constitutions. If the power-storage-unit (i.e. head of state) wasn't in the picture the state couldn't exist.

The way that Canada and the UK have set up their monarch is actually quiet ingenious. Shielded from the messiness of electoral politics they are free to be developed into storybook characters. Mesmerized by the pretty cookie jar we forget to look and see who's got the cookies.

Without a queen there would be anarchy in the UK and then everyone would be able to eat.

[ 28 November 2007: Message edited by: Le Téléspectateur ]


From: More here than there | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Le Téléspectateur
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7126

posted 27 November 2007 08:06 PM      Profile for Le Téléspectateur     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
lookstheile - I think that you are the first dyed-in-the-wool monarchist that I have ever seen on babble.
From: More here than there | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
lookstheile
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14763

posted 27 November 2007 09:14 PM      Profile for lookstheile     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's because there's too much fanciful speculation about it.

There are some people who believe that she staged her death. If you don't think it was an accident, what makes you think that she even died?

quote:
Originally posted by Fidel:

So what's with the trail of dead people since the "accident"? It's reminiscent of the three dozen witnesses to the JFK assassination who mysteriously turned up dead.

And why was
Diana's body embalmed?



From: Buckingham Palace | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged
lookstheile
recent-rabble-rouser
Babbler # 14763

posted 27 November 2007 09:18 PM      Profile for lookstheile     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Am I? I like to think of myself as a pro-Canadian rabid anti-American. The Monarchy just happens to be a part of our heritage and constitutional monarchy our form of government. I'm fine with it because the alternatives are far worse.

quote:
Originally posted by Le Téléspectateur:
lookstheile - I think that you are the first dyed-in-the-wool monarchist that I have ever seen on babble.

From: Buckingham Palace | Registered: Nov 2007  |  IP: Logged
Bacchus
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4722

posted 27 November 2007 09:19 PM      Profile for Bacchus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
RA RA RASPUTIN
Lover of the Russian queen
They put some poison into his wine

Oddly enough Fidel, recent investigations show that it was most likely a British Intelligence assassination that killed Rasputin, since he would have pulled Russia out of the war and that would have led to defeat for England and France


From: n/a | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
B.L. Zeebub LLD
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6914

posted 28 November 2007 04:52 AM      Profile for B.L. Zeebub LLD     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by lookstheile:
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "anti-Muslim fervor" because the people of Great Britain have every right to be concerned about the intentions of the Islamists among them.

There is an undercurrent of anti-Muslim hatred in this country that is only partly due to the recent attacks and the acts of militant Islam. You'd have to be deaf and blind to miss it. It takes the usual form of scapegoating for various economic and class issues: "They come here illegally and get all the good council houses and cheat the dole and take all the jobs from good hardworking English boys."

A recent quote from a common middle-aged woman, "If you're White and English in this country, you don't stand a chance."

She's not alone.

[ 28 November 2007: Message edited by: B.L. Zeebub LLD ]


From: A Devil of an Advocate | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Martha (but not Stewart)
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 12335

posted 28 November 2007 05:51 AM      Profile for Martha (but not Stewart)     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Nanuq:
What would it mean for Canada if the monarchy were abolished?

If the UK decided to abolish its monarchy and become a republic, then Canada could (if we wanted) remain a monarchy, indeed with the same royal family: though Elizabeth Windsor is both the Queen of Canada and the Queen of the United Kingdom, there is no principled reason why she could not continue to hold one office even if the other were abolished. If we could convince them to move to Ottawa, we wouldn't even need a Governor General!

; )


From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4117

posted 28 November 2007 09:21 AM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Without a queen there would be anarchy in the UK and then everyone would be able to eat.


I wouldn't go that far. Even if the Monarchy is abolished, many British people would still be at odds with the corporate big wigs who run their government.

I just don't like the royals. I relize that people like Bill Gates and King Fahd have done more harm then Queen Elizibeth ever has, but I can't shake the feeling that the British royal family are a bunch of wasters.

If they were a bit more like the swedish or spanish nobilities,(go Juan Carlos!) they would have more of my respect.

[ 28 November 2007: Message edited by: CMOT Dibbler ]


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 8312

posted 28 November 2007 09:24 AM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Without a queen there would be anarchy in the UK

I don't know about the UK but certainly on Church St.

From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Le Téléspectateur
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7126

posted 28 November 2007 10:42 AM      Profile for Le Téléspectateur     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I wouldn't go that far. Even if the Monarchy is abolished, many British people would still be at odds with the corporate big wigs who run their government.

I just don't like the royals. I relize that people like Bill Gates and King Fahd have done more harm then Queen Elizibeth ever has, but I can't shake the feeling that the British royal family are a bunch of wasters.

If they were a bit more like the swedish or spanish nobilities,(go Juan Carlos!) they would have more of my respect.



Not Queen Elizabeth, any queen - in any form she may assume. I was commenting on the fact that the head-of-state has an important role in maintaining the oppression that is the state.


From: More here than there | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6874

posted 28 November 2007 10:54 AM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:
But never is a very long time. Haven't some people been saying that the monarchy won't last beyond the Queen's death?

quote:
Originally posted by Bacchus:
Very true, though they said it when Edward VIII renounced the throne and when George VI died.

It happens all the time at either a death of a loved monarch (or hated) or a particularly turbulent time.
But the need the cash the tourists bring in way too much.


Yes. But really, it's not so much the death of Elizabeth as the ascendency of Charles everyone is worried about. I'm not worrying about it yet. Elizabeth will live to be at least 90.


From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
CMOT Dibbler
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4117

posted 28 November 2007 12:46 PM      Profile for CMOT Dibbler     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I'm not worrying about it yet.

Why worry at all? Do you like the Royals?


From: Just outside Fernie, British Columbia | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Webgear
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 9443

posted 28 November 2007 12:51 PM      Profile for Webgear     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The Royals I have meet seemed very nice.
From: Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Catchfire
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4019

posted 28 November 2007 12:54 PM      Profile for Catchfire   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by lookstheile:
I believe that the monarchy has a positive influence on British politics and society, and this has resulted in a society that is more tolerant of ethnic minorities than France. Anyone who knows anything about Frances knows how anal they can be about their language and culture.

Anyone who believes this has never spent any serious amount of time in the U.K. Exhibit A: the booing of the Croatian National Anthem during England's disastrous exit from the Euro 2008 qualifying, and the subsequent blaming of "too many foreign players in the Premiership" for the failure.

Such a person should also, perhaps, watch Shane Meadows's wonderful 2006 film, This is England if they consider the U.K. such a racially tolerant place.

ETA: Also, did the Brits learn their alleged racial tolerance and sensitivity from this bloke?

[ 28 November 2007: Message edited by: Catchfire ]


From: On the heather | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
clersal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 370

posted 28 November 2007 01:27 PM      Profile for clersal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I believe that the monarchy has a positive influence on British politics and society,.......

Kind of like american Hollywood, I am not sure of the positive influence. Where is it positive?

From: Canton Marchand, Québec | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
scooter
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 5548

posted 28 November 2007 02:46 PM      Profile for scooter     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Or FARC teaching people about social awareness.
From: High River | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
West Coast Greeny
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6874

posted 28 November 2007 10:39 PM      Profile for West Coast Greeny     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by CMOT Dibbler:

Why worry at all? Do you like the Royals?


I don't mind it so much. They are a huge part of the British national identity.

I was mostly just saying Elizabeth makes a better monarch than Charles would. Neither of them are bad people, but Charles isn't really known for charisma...


From: Ewe of eh. | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged

All times are Pacific Time  

Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | rabble.ca | Policy Statement

Copyright 2001-2008 rabble.ca