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Author Topic: USASRAELI nuclear credibility?
Cueball
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posted 09 January 2007 11:06 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Brett Mann made this point in the last Darfur thread:

quote:
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Paul Craig Roberts in this Counterpunch article argues that the US/Israel tag team wants to use nuclear weapons against Iran, not necessarily to avoid a nuclear Iran, but to cow Muslims everywhere with a demonstration of nuclear annihilation.

From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 09 January 2007 11:15 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Israel's part, General Tira says, is to "prepare an independent military strike by coordinating flights in Iraqi airspace with the US. We should also coordinate with Azerbaijan the use of air bases in its territory and also enlist the support of the Azeri minority in Iran."

Being talked up as potential colaborators by IDF Generals can not be very good for Iranian minorities. Who do these people think they are?


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Peech
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posted 09 January 2007 11:26 AM      Profile for Peech   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
More from the Illustrious Paul Craig

quote:
If truth be known, there is nothing to stop the Israeli/neoconservative cabal from widening the war in the Middle East.

Plagiarized directly from: "Protocols of Zion"
The Protocols

From: Babbling Brook | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 09 January 2007 11:29 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Is cabal a banned word?

I have a list of some other words that the lords of Newsqueak might want to take a look at

Assembly, associates, bunch, camarilla, camp, clan, class, clique, club, companions, company, comrades, coterie, crew, cronies, crowd, crush, fellowship, fraternity, friends, gang, in-group, insiders, intimates, lot, mafia, mob, outfit, party, ring, school, set, society.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 09 January 2007 11:31 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I am particularly suspicious of the word "friends." It such an antisemitic idea.
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Michelle
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posted 09 January 2007 11:38 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Careful, Cueball. You're stepping into hate speech territory there.

That said, the word "cabal" has more sinister connotations than the word "friend". A wikipedia entry on the word:

quote:
A cabal is a number of persons united in some close design, usually to promote their private views and interests in a church, state, or other community by intrigue. Cabals are secret organizations composed of a few designing persons. The term can also be used to refer to the designs of such persons, and also holds a general meaning of intrigue and conspiracy. Its usage carries strong connotations of shadowy corners and insidious influence; a cabal is more evil and selective than, say, a faction, which is simply selfish. Because of this negative connotation, few organizations use the term to refer to themselves or their internal subdivisions. Among the exceptions is Discordianism, in which the term is used to refer to an identifiable group within the Discordian tradition.

I think "cabal" is a word often and loosely used by people to describe alliances of groups with aims we don't approve. For instance, I'd have no problem with describing an alliance of fundamentalist Christian churches, right-wing think tanks, and fundamentalist NGO lobby groups which influence right-wing conservative politicians as a "cabal of social conservatives".

[ 09 January 2007: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
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posted 09 January 2007 11:44 AM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And in alphabetical order, too. I'm impressed. I thought the term "friends had more anti-quaker connotations.

But back to your opening post...

quote:
not necessarily to avoid a nuclear Iran, but to cow Muslims everywhere with a demonstration of nuclear annihilation.

Shock and awe, make them so scared of American military might that they would just quiet right down, behave themselves, and open sweatshops to supply Walmart.

That is so absolutely and unbelievably stupid, and totally flies in the face of the experience of every middle, great, and super power that has ever tried to intrude in the area. Any High School student who has studied modern history and current events could tell you what a stupid idea it was.

They'll probably do it!


From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 09 January 2007 11:45 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Peech:
Plagiarized directly from: "Protocols of Zion"

Ohhhhh...you just did it too! I clicked on your link and searched for the word "from" in the Protocols and I found it there as well!

You plagiarized from the Protocols! Bad! Bad!


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Petsy
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posted 09 January 2007 11:47 AM      Profile for Petsy        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thank you Peech...you are at least trying to keep the balance helps keep some on their toes if nothing else
From: Toronto | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
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posted 09 January 2007 11:47 AM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Why don't I just move this damn thread to babble banter and cueball can start over?
From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 09 January 2007 11:47 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Petsy:
Thank you Peech...you are at least trying to keep the balance helps keep some on their toes if nothing else


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Peech
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posted 09 January 2007 12:02 PM      Profile for Peech   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The term cabal when used in conjunction with Jew or Jewish or (as in Israeli cabal) is code from the Protocols for an international Jewish Conspiracy, which is clearly consistent with the the author's fesses (I mean thesis).
(As if you didn't already know this.)

From the Protocols of Zion

quote:
Hermann Goedsche's 1868 fiction novel, Biarritz, contributed another idea that may have inspired the scribe behind the Protocols. In the chapter, "In the Jewish Cemetery in Prague," Goedsche wrote about a nocturnal meeting between members of a mysterious rabbinical cabal, describing how at midnight, the Devil appears before those who have gathered on behalf of the Twelve Tribes of Israel to plan a "Jewish conspiracy." His depiction is also similar to the scene in Alexandre Dumas's Joseph Balsamo, where Cagliostro and company plot the affair of the diamond necklace. With Biarritz appearing at about the same time as The Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu, it is possible that Goedsche was inspired by the ideas in Joly's pamphlet, especially in detailing the outcome of the cabal's secret meeting.[5] Goedsche, a reactionary to the events of 1848, lost his job in the Prussian postal service after forging evidence to implicate democratic leader Benedict Waldeck of conspiring against the king. Following his dismissal, Goedsche began a career as a conservative columnist, while also producing literary work under the penname Sir John Retcliffe.[6] Goedsche was allegedly a spy for the Prussian Secret Police. [4]

[ 09 January 2007: Message edited by: Peech ]


From: Babbling Brook | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 09 January 2007 12:07 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
And don't forget that the numbers "31" is code for the addresses for Mason assemblies, associations, bunches, camarillas, camps, clans, classes, cliques, clubs, companies, coteries, crews, crowds, fellowships, fraternities, gangs, mobs, outfits, parties, rings, schools, sects or societies congregate.

[ 09 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
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posted 09 January 2007 12:08 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Peech sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

I could of course expand further on the use of the word as it relates to Charles II, but I'm sure you and petsy are really keen to start addressing the issues raised in cueballs opening post.


From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 09 January 2007 12:09 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

[ 09 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]


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contrarianna
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posted 09 January 2007 12:11 PM      Profile for contrarianna     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Peech:
The term cabal when used in conjunction with Jew or Jewish or (as in code like Israeli cabal) is code from the Protocols for an international Jewish Conspiracy, which is clearly consistent with the the author's fesses (I mean thesis).
(As if you didn't already know this.)

Or perhaps he was "plagiarizing" (Jezus Peech, look up the meaning of the word!)from that notorious anti-semitic tract, The New Yorker:

SELECTIVE INTELLIGENCE
Donald Rumsfeld has his own special sources. Are they reliable?
by SEYMOUR M. HERSH
Issue of 2003-05-12
Posted 2003-05-05

They call themselves, self-mockingly, the Cabal—a small cluster of policy advisers and analysts now based in the Pentagon’s Office of Special Plans. In the past year, according to former and present Bush Administration officials, their operation, which was conceived by Paul Wolfowitz, the Deputy Secretary of Defense, has brought about a crucial change of direction in the American intelligence community. These advisers and analysts, who began their work in the days after September 11, 2001, have produced a skein of intelligence reviews that have helped to shape public opinion and American policy toward Iraq. They relied on data gathered by other intelligence agencies and also on information provided by the Iraqi National Congress, or I.N.C., the exile group headed by Ahmad Chalabi. By last fall, the operation rivalled both the C.I.A. and the Pentagon’s own Defense Intelligence Agency, the D.I.A., as President Bush’s main source of intelligence regarding Iraq’s possible possession of weapons of mass destruction and connection with Al Qaeda....


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Peech
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posted 09 January 2007 12:16 PM      Profile for Peech   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by oldgoat:
Peech sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

I could of course expand further on the use of the word as it relates to Charles II, but I'm sure you and petsy are really keen to start addressing the issues raised in cueballs opening post.


From your own quoted source:

quote:
"a global cabal of Jews" is referenced from time to time, as a spoof on anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.

From: Babbling Brook | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 09 January 2007 12:23 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by oldgoat:
Why don't I just move this damn thread to babble banter and cueball can start over?


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
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posted 09 January 2007 12:25 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
also from my quoted source...

"A WHOLE BUNCH OF OTHER SHIT THAT'S WAY WAY MORE RELEVANT!!!!!"

Now you've gone and been instrumental in my raising my voice. Other people in the office are looking at me. Oh well.

I was going to suggest you were merely being obtuse beyond measure, but clearly this whole cabal business is yet again a successful diversion from seeing a topic discussed which causes discomfort in certain quarters.


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Peech
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posted 09 January 2007 12:28 PM      Profile for Peech   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So sorry, but bigots who write bigoted articles (the Counterpunch one at the top) disguised as "political commentary" also make me a tad uncomfortable, and with the greatest of respect, I am expressing my discomfort here (without raising my voice. )

[ 09 January 2007: Message edited by: Peech ]


From: Babbling Brook | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Legless-Marine
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posted 09 January 2007 12:37 PM      Profile for Legless-Marine        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
For instance, I'd have no problem with describing an alliance of fundamentalist Christian churches, right-wing think tanks, and fundamentalist NGO lobby groups which influence right-wing conservative politicians as a "cabal of social conservatives".

How is a cabal of "Christian churches, right-wing think tanks, and fundamentalist NGO lobby groups which influence right-wing conservative politicians " different from a Cabal of Jewish organizations, right wing think tanks and fundamentalist NGO lobby groups that influence right wing politicians?


From: Calgary | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 09 January 2007 12:37 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Peech:
So sorry, but bigots who write bigoted articles (the Counterpunch one at the top) disguised as "political commentary" also make me a tad uncomfortable, and with the greatest of respect, I am expressing my discomfort here (without raising my voice. )

[ 09 January 2007: Message edited by: Peech ]


There is not difference between seeing a conspiracy of Jews behind everything, and seeing a conspiracy of antisemites behind everything.

Selecting out the word cabal from a text and asserting that its association with Jewish people is antsimitic puts you in the range of recieving communications from alien satelites through your fillings as amplified by your tinfoil hat.

[ 09 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
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posted 09 January 2007 12:41 PM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
So sorry, but bigots who write bigoted articles (the Counterpunch one at the top) disguised as "political commentary" also make me a tad uncomfortable

Not so uncomfortable that you wouldn't post hate articles posing as political commentary from very obvious bigots with whom you agree.

From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Peech
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posted 09 January 2007 01:33 PM      Profile for Peech   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh yes, many apologies for quoting those obvious (award winning humanitarian)bigots such as "Romeo D'Allaire" and the right winger "Terry Glavin"

[ 09 January 2007: Message edited by: Peech ]


From: Babbling Brook | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Brett Mann
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posted 09 January 2007 02:31 PM      Profile for Brett Mann        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Peech, you must have missed this disclaimer in Robert's article:

"The Israel Lobby represents the views of only a minority of American Jews..."

It doesn't seem like he's making sweeping anti-Jewish comments to me. There seems to be strong circumstatial evidence that Israel enjoys disproportionate influence in the shaping of US foreign policy, and in shaping public consensus for these policies. Is it anti-semitic to propose or investigate this thesis? And given that the policies of the Israeli government seemed destined to bring about the destruction of Israel, is it automatically anti-Jewish to criticize the actions of the Israeli state?

And btw, I share your admiration for Terry Glavin and Romeo D'Allaire.


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Cueball
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posted 09 January 2007 02:40 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I look at it the other way round frankly. The US has had inordinate influence in the internal business of the region of Palestine, including the creation of an autonmous political entity of a colonialist nature, in Palestine, specifically for the purposes of having a client beholden to its strategic objectives.

US national interests have had considerable impact on Jewish opinion, to the extent that some feel their cause is served by playing a part in the US grand strategy.

[ 09 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Peech
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posted 09 January 2007 04:36 PM      Profile for Peech   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Brett:

Thanks for your comment. I agree there is nothing wrong with, (and in fact present policies merit) criticism of Israel. It is the method of that criticism that must be scrutinized. This article uses politically and (bigotry) charged terminology analogous to the same in the infamous Adbusters "Let's Out the Jewish Neocons" one. I might be wrong, but in the hands of some here who are a kin to a gang of bullies, it's a club to pound Israel every chance they have. (Just look at the Darfur thread to see.)

BTW if you like Terry Glavin have a look at his chronicles for his comment on what he thinks about those who are "just anti-Zionist."

Glavin's Year End Chronicles


From: Babbling Brook | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 09 January 2007 04:40 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
You know of course Peech that refering to peope of Jewish heritage as being "a kin to a gang of bullies" has antisemitic ovetones reminicent to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
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posted 09 January 2007 06:12 PM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This is new:

quote:
JERUSALEM: Hiking, scouting and promoting the forced "transfer" of Palestinians out of the West Bank - these are the main goals of a new youth movement formed by a far-right Israeli MP. Ariyeh Eldad of the National Union party told public radio he had visited numerous schools across the country, "and realized that the idea of transfer is very popular among youngsters." The concept of transfer, often touted by Israel's far-right, consists of forcefully transferring Palestinians to Arab countries, a clear violation of international law.

The Daily Star

I suppose if this esteemed Israeli politician held a rally for Darfur, Glavin would have a new column denouncing anyone who didn't attend as anti-Semitic.


From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Briguy
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posted 10 January 2007 04:37 AM      Profile for Briguy     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
When considering an illegal attack on Iran's nuclear facilities, it behoves us to consider Chernobyl. This is what the nuclear attack enthusiasts are pushing for:

quote:
The IAEA's nuclear experts say that Chernobyl has claimed 56 lives to date -- 47 workers at the disaster site and nine children who have since died of thyroid cancer. In contrast, the Ukrainian National Council on Radiation Protection claims to have documented 34,499 deaths among rescue workers. The United Nations' World Health Organization (WHO) estimated the number of Chernobyl workers who died from radiation exposure or committed suicide at 50,000 -- six years ago.


Part II

Part 3

quote:
Geneticist Hava Weinberg, for example, examined 100 children of Chernobyl rescue workers who had emigrated to Israel. The rate of genetic mutations among those born after the accident was 700 percent higher than among those born before 1986. In a government-funded, long-term study headed by Volodimir Vertelecki, chief geneticist at the University of Southern Alabama, an average of 14,000 newborns are examined each year in the Ukrainian provinces of Volyn and Rovno. According to one of the results of the study, there has been an almost 20-fold increase in the number of infants born with "spina bifida" (cleft vertebra).

These children with genetic defects are the second generation of Chernobyl victims. And they have fuelled a revival of the debate between scientists and doctors in rival camps -- between the IAEA and its opponents.



From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged

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