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DHAKA, Bangladesh (AP) - About 2,000 men marched in Bangladesh's capital on Tuesday, a day before International Women's Day, to protest against acid attacks that permanently disfigure many women each year, organizers said.

The protesters, including celebrities, teachers and students, carried placards and banners reading Stop acid violence, respect women's rights and Throwing acid is a heinous crime.

Dozens of female acid victims accompanied the marchers.

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I was really happy when I first saw this... Until I had a chance to reflect on it. It's really depressing that the need for this kind of rally still exists.

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Bangladesh's constitution guarantees equal rights for women. The prime minister and main opposition leader of the Muslim-majority country are women, but females are regularly subjected to abuse, human rights groups say.

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The BNP is led by Khaleda Zia, widow of the assassinated military dictator General Zia, who amended the original Constitution, replacing secularism with the "Sovereignty of Allah." Khaleda Zia was swift to condemn the September 11 attacks and offer support to America before the elections. But the fundamentalist Jamaat-e-Islami party is a key partner in her governing coalition. The party has argued that strict Islamic Sharia law should be implemented in Bangladesh, just as it was by the Taliban in Afghanistan

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
Interesting article, Fidel. Thanks.

But it doesn't even mention acid-throwing. Why is it in this thread?

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What did the KKK have to do with burning crosses and lynchings in the deep south ?.

See lance's post down below.

[ 08 March 2006: Message edited by: Fidel ]

[ 08 March 2006: Message edited by: deBeauxOs ]

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Originally posted by Fidel:
General Zia of Pakistan, if you recall, overthrew Pakistan's democracy led by PM Bhutto in 1977. Zia's illegit government aided in the Talibanization of Afghanistan, and now his widow leads Bangladesh while the same thing seems to be happening.... the ol' acid in the face business for violating the head-to-toe veil edict of Taliban fundamentalism.

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You're mixing up two General Zias, Fidel. Prime Minister Khaleda Zia of Bangladesh is the widow of the widow of Ziaur Rahman, hero of the war of independence against "west Pakistan," as it then was, and later president of Bangladesh. He was assassinated in 1981.

It was Muhammad Zia ul-Haq who staged the 1977 military coup in Pakistan.

[ 08 March 2006: Message edited by: 'lance ]

The website I linked to gives some statistics on the apparent motivations for acid-throwing attacks. They break them down into these categories: Addiction, Dowry, Family related dispute, Land/property/money dispute, Marital dispute, Refusal/rejection of love/marriage/sex, plus small numbers of cases classified as "Other" or "Unknown". Religious coercion is not even mentioned.

They also report that about a third of all victims in Bangladesh are male.

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The victims are attacked for many reasons. In some cases, the attack takes place because a young girl or woman has spurned the sexual advances of a male or has rejected a proposal of marriage. Recently, however, there have been acid attacks on children, older women and sometimes also men. These attacks are often the result of family or land disputes, dowry demands or a desire for revenge.

Reasons for acid attacks during the years, the highest rate of occurrence took place over Land Disputes and Family dispute, the next highest rate of these brutal incidents are due to refusal of relationship/sex throughout the country.

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Originally posted by 'lance:

You're mixing up two General Zias, Fidel.
[ 08 March 2006: Message edited by: 'lance ]

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
I'm wondering just how widespread these "Islamic" acid attacks are in Bangladesh. If they are common, I'm wondering why they weren't mentioned alongside all the other religious atrocities mentioned in that article from The Nation.

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Are you suggesting that there is something specifically "Islamic" about these kinds of attacks? Please explain.

If it is the case that you are again prsecuting your particular brand of anti-Muslim bigotry once again I will, for the first time ever on this site, make a formal complaint against you.

For the record, acid attacks are made by people from Hindu backgrounds as well as Muslim ones, and as such it is clear that acid attacks are not a result of religious docterine but a cultural phenomena.

[ 08 March 2006: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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Originally posted by Mandos:

Yeah there's a peculiar intersection between gender and class.

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Originally posted by Cueball:
Are you suggesting that there is something specifically "Islamic" about these kinds of attacks? Please explain.

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My comment was directed to Fidel. You clearly didn't read the link he posted. Fidel was the one that was suggesting there was something Islamic about these attacks. I couldn't see it myself.

Maybe if you spent a little more time trying to understand what was being said and a little less time on your own personal witch-hunts you wouldn't constantly make such an ass of yourself.

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Socio-economic Factors behind Acid-Throwing

By examining cases over the past few years, seven main causes of the crime are found, namely: land disputes, refusals of a relationship or marriage proposal, failures of a girl to bring a dowry to her husband, family disputes, marital disputes, political rivalries and the accidental presence of the victims at the scene.

Land and property disputes are the most significant reason for acid attacks in Bangladesh though. As the litigation process in the country is very time-consuming, it often takes a substantial period of time to settle a land or property-related dispute legally. In addition, corruption is involved in almost every step of the proceedings, and it becomes quite costly to continue a case for such a long time. Under these circumstances, acid-throwing is often used as a weapon to weaken an opponent physically, mentally and financially so that he or she would not dare to persist with legal action. As most acid attackers go unpunished, this further encourages them to commit the crime repeatedly. According to the ASF, the problem of land disputes accounted for 27 percent of total acid attacks in 2003, the highest among all the causes.

Refusals of a relationship or marriage proposal are another important factor in acid attacks, particularly on adolescent girls. In Bangladesh's male-dominated society, a girl's refusal to have a relationship with a man or rejection of his marriage proposal is not well received by the man himself. In many cases, especially in rural areas where the enforcement of law and order is not very strict, the spoiled young men take revenge by throwing acid on the girls. The victims mostly come from poor families and are not well protected by their families. Girls and children are vulnerable to acid attacks or attacks of any kind at any time as they can be easily approached by anyone on their way to school or when they go out to fetch water or collect firewood. The access of poor people to police and legal assistance, as well as medical facilities, is very limited. In 2002, only 9 percent of the total cases of acid attacks were related to the refusal of a relationship or proposal, but the percentage jumped to 17 percent in 2003.

The lack of security for poor girls and children has also contributed to the rising number of acid attacks on those who were accidentally present at the scene. As most cases have occurred at night when the victims have been asleep, anyone who was with the victims at the time of the attacks - usually a sister, relative or child - was also injured. This reason comprised 10 percent and 17 percent of the total number of acid attacks in 2002 and 2003 respectively.

Dowry, which is a known cause of violence against women, in general, is also a source of acid attacks. Following Islamic customs, a dowry is a compulsory gift or amount of money that must be given by the husband to the wife. Conversely, in Hinduism, the custom is that the dowry has to be paid by the wife's father to the husband. In reality, this Hindu custom is practised in low-income groups of both the Hindu and Muslim communities in Bangladesh. Failure to give a dowry often means death for the wife or an acid burn on her face and body. The dowry issue triggered 6 percent of the total cases of acid attacks in both 2002 and 2003.

Growing social and political intolerance, declining moral values, the easy availability of acid, the deterioration of law and order and the traditional mindset of men who refuse to tolerate the advances of women in social life have translated into acid violence against women. To combat the problem rigorously, all of the socio-economic determinants behind this violence must be taken into consideration and be addressed simultaneously.

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
OK, Mr. rebel-without-a-clue. I'll explain.

My comment was directed to Fidel. You clearly didn't read the link he posted. Fidel was the one that was suggesting there was something Islamic about these attacks. I couldn't see it myself.

Maybe if you spent a little more time trying to understand what was being said and a little less time on your own personal witch-hunts you wouldn't constantly make such an ass of yourself.

And don't bother threatening me. It doesn't work.

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Actually, I read what you wrote, then I read what Fidel wrote, and then read what you wrote again. Then I decided your repsonse wasn't clear.

You see the statement "'other' religous attacks" could be qualified as "other religious attacks" by Muslims, not necessarilly "attacks by people from other relgions."

Did you see? Can you read? I made an inquirey. This means I asked you if this is what you meant?

Frankly, I was disgusted by the article you posted here which indicated that "Middle Eastern" men were less capable of love than American and European men. Frankly, in my view, it was hate literature plain and simple. And it was also something which you didn't bother distancing yourself from.

So, as far as I am concerned, the intent behind anything you post is questionable.

So, I questioned you.

[ 08 March 2006: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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Originally posted by Cueball:
So, as far as I am concerned, the intent behind anything you post is questionable.

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Perhaps I should clarify: I find the particular brand of "cultural-anthropolgy" theory you apply to identify innate universal negative characteristics among distinct minorities to be the later day version of "socio-biological" theories that were used to identify innate universal negative characteristics among distinct minorities.

It is the scientification of racism in my view, akin to eugenics but based in cultural studies.

That is what I think about your views of religion, particularly Islam. And that is why I think you seem to have no problem posting and supporting rediculous articles based the common place supersticions that Westerners have about the Eastern peoples.

"Can we say that Middle Eastern men who are murderously obsessed with female sexual purity actually love their wives, daughters, and sisters less than American or European men do? Of course, we can."

Nuts. Plain racist balderdash.

[ 08 March 2006: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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Originally posted by Cueball:

Are you suggesting that there is something specifically "Islamic" about these kinds of attacks? Please explain.

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By what I've read, I don't think Islam says anything about acid attacks. A York University professor says Sharia law is hardly Quranic in origin. It sounds to me as if: wife beating, genital mutilations, acid tossing, live burials, public executions, stoning and even gang rapes as punishment for women caught bearing their faces or rejecting marriage proposals by the religious kgb, could be regional and cultural variations for enforcing Quranic sharia laws as they were interpreted in a specific place and period in time. I believe he's also saying that the Quran is moreso a moral and ethical guide than a book of religious laws never to be subjected to scrutiny.

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For the record, acid attacks are made by people from Hindu backgrounds as well as Muslim ones, and as such it is clear that acid attacks are not a result of religious docterine but a cultural phenomena.

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Yes, and we know that Hindu's and Muslim cultures were intertwined during the time of the Mughal empire extending from India to Afghanistan. We also know that Talibanization in this general region of the world was/is part of an overall plan for fundamentalist tribes in Pakistan, and with Saudi and CIA help, to gain "strategic depth" against India, Russia and Iran in territorial conflicts over Kashmir and beyond.

But I think it's safe to say that Taliban, a particulary violent form of Islam, is also present in Bangladesh. And they never seem to object to vigilantism common among Islamic fundamentalists. Social democracy is the most effective weapon against class indifference, poverty and terrorism.

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posted by Michelle: Must we have this pissing contest in the feminism forum? M. Spector clarified what he meant. Let's move on.

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I apologize for breaking my own policy of ignoring his paranoid ravings completely.

[ 08 March 2006: Message edited by: M. Spector ]

[ 08 March 2006: Message edited by: M. Spector ]