Something bizarre happened to me at work yesterday. I'm a veterinarian, working occasionally and part time in a small clinic. I usually work at home (writing and translation) so sometimes I figure I just don't get out much. Anyways, I was treating this guy's cat Bill for an ingrown claw. I'd say he was in his late 50s, maybe early 60s - the guy that is, not the cat. There was lots of blood and pus and angry cat noises....and lots of talking; I have a pretty easy rapport with almost all pet owners and clients, and this guy was no exception.

When I was finished and he took Bill back in the car, he came back into the consultation room (which nobody else has ever done) while I was writing up Bill's file, and started to touch me on the nape of the neck while smiling and trying to look into my eyes while making jokes about the bill and about how I shouldn't charge too much because vets shouldn't profit from animals' distress - or something to that effect, I really wasn't listening anymore. My mind had gone on to "how am I going to get this guy out of here as quickly and as neatly as possible" - which I managed to do (though I found out later he went on to try the same trick with our 16-year-old receptionist (my boss' daughter.) My 25-year-old tech was also there the whole time, and none of us had the feeling it was an overtly sexual advance. He was just way too far into our personal spaces, a bit too sure of himself and we weren't about to make a big deal out of something we felt was harmless though definitely inappropriate.

Weird how immobilizing it is, though, isn't it? You're not sure what's going on, so you don't want to over-react, so you don't do anything emphatic. . .

This guy's behaviour, to me, sounds like a pretty clear-cut case of (a relatively mild form of) sexual harassment. It seems to me that he, like many harassers, may have thought you and the 16-year-old receptionist might be too shy or intimidated to call him out for his behaviour (not that you are, just that his behaviour suggests he assumed that). And, apparently, he assumed that his dollars would be more important to your employer than your physical integrity.

Given that one of the recipients of his uninvited touching turns out to have been the boss' daughter, I'm sure your employer would be more than happy to fire him as a client. Which might teach him a lesson about what he thinks he can get away in terms of touching strange women (and girls) without asking.

I gather you're not as pissed off about this as I would have been if it had happened to me (and it has, occasionally, and I was so weirded out by it that I didn't say anything, either) ... a milder way to deal with it might be to tell him right away that his behaviour is inappropriate and that he should not touch anyone in your office. I would definitely put it in "you" terms, rather than "I felt uncomfortable" -- this is about teaching the guy (1) that it is not appropriate (which he knows, whether he admits to it or not), and (2) that you don't have to apologize for calling him on it -- the problem is not that you're particularly sensitive or uptight, it's that he's a boor. Ignoring it might only encourage his assumption that he's entitled to go around touching women he doesn't know whenever he feels like it.

All that being said, you were there, so you're in the best position to judge what you feel is the best way of dealing with it ...

[ 12 July 2005: Message edited by: puzzlic ]

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started to touch me on the nape of the neck while smiling and trying to look into my eyes

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Um. That would sure be a problem for me, brebis noire. I'm not surprised that you're feeling shaken. I'm also not entirely sure what I would have done, but I know what I would like to think I would do, which is raise an arm and strike his off.

I think you're right that there are many people who just have a different sense of social distance, although it is also true that a lot of men (maybe especially older, but who knows?) make proprietary assumptions about women, just can't get past seeing us more or less in the way they would see children or pets.

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I assume you had all the tools needed to neuter the bastard?

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Even if it wasn't specifically a sexual advance, it was extremely inappropriate in the kind of professional situation you were in. I've never, ever gone up to a doctor or dentist or any other professional that I'm friendly with, and started rubbing their neck while joking around with them and trying to make eye contact.

People who do that sort of thing do it because they think they're a charmer. They leave themselves just enough plausible deniability that the recipient can't accuse them of anything without sounding "strident".

And it's true. Afterwards, you think, "I could have told him politely that I'm not comfortable. I could have pulled away. I was well within my rights to do that." But you don't do it, because you're frozen in the moment, trying to process the fact that the guy is doing this, and trying to figure out a) whether it's threatening, b) whether you should do anything or wait it out, and c) whether you should acknowledge it or just let it go. And by the time you unfreeze, it's over and you wonder what the hell that was all about.

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People who do that sort of thing do it because they think they're a charmer.

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I can think of some examples in my past, for sure.

A friend once suggested that I take a straight pin or a sewing needle with me to a dinner I was dreading. For some reason, in that group of old friends, I almost always got seated next to one of the husbands who thought himself a charmer and would begin fiddling with my knees below the table. Whenever that happened, I felt stuck because I really liked the guy's wife -- I didn't want to cause a scene because I didn't want to hurt her. But it had happened repeatedly.

Take a pin, said my friend. And as soon as his hand ventures on to your knee, apply yours, with pin in hand, to his. Smile serenely as you do that.

He didn't make much of it, and that was my reaction as well. While I was reflecting, I remember thinking that any kind of overt negative response on my part would have been an overreaction. I could be wrong, and I understand the responses on this thread in that sense.
As well, I am always aware that I'm operating in a different culture than my own over here (I'm anglophone). This is not to say that my francophone colleagues don't recognize sexual harassment and invasion of personal space when it happens, it's just that there may be a different emotional-outlet reaction going on wherein they don't get as uptight in reaction to physicality as English culture people do. That was the feeling I got from my tech and the receptionist. (lagatta might be able to help me out here, too. )

Actually, apart from the touching which was obviously inappropriate, I was more concerned with the fact that he was trying to influence me in a very clumsy way to reduce the bill.

[ 12 July 2005: Message edited by: brebis noire ]

In my opinion, a rather sharp "Don't be touching me, please", was called for and probably would have been effective. I say that as a man who occasionally, and regrettably in the past has played such games.

Editted to add: though I'd have never had the audacity to "touch", even back of neck, without something that I could misinterpret as an "O.K. so far".

[ 12 July 2005: Message edited by: James ]

Magoo's idea is a useful one for your profession - just bring up the subject: "En passant, est-ce que votre matou est castré?"

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Originally posted by lagatta:
Magoo's idea is a useful one for your profession - just bring up the subject: "En passant, est-ce que votre matou est castré?"

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Originally posted by brebis noire:
He didn't make much of it, and that was my reaction as well. While I was reflecting, I remember thinking that any kind of overt negative response on my part would have been an overreaction. I could be wrong, and I understand the responses on this thread in that sense.

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No, I think if, reflecting upon it, you feel that your reaction was right for the situation, then it probably was. Only you can know what was called for in that situation. Sometimes "overtly negative" responses are called for, but other times, just being calm and not being confrontational is the best thing to do. When feminists talk about it afterwards, I think our first reaction is to think of the ways we "should have" confronted the person, as though by not doing so it was a sign of weakness or acquiescence. But it's not. Sometimes discretion really IS the wisest course.

Whatever you did...worked! Chummy will be back when his cat needs something...and next time you'll make sure the examining table is at all times between you..and at the first sign of his smarmy bullshit you'll be emotionally prepared to say Fuck Off in some appropriate way ... we freeze because of inexperience. But just thinking about it, writing about it, getting supportive feedback from other feminist women give you the equivalent of a black belt where this dork is concerned.

I do hope you discuss this with the 16 year old young woman who was similarly violated..because it was a violation and this old fart KNOWS it! This young woman probably has little or no experience with this kind of slime...probably in her young eyes this was a grandfatherly guy, she likely thought him too old to even remember how to put the tap on someone...and then he betrayed her and she's probably confused and angry. If you, a more mature woman, obviously if you're a vet you're highly educated, I believe you wrote something once about having children..in her eyes you are "woman" and if YOU froze..and if you tell her that, and validate her by saying you found the whole thing creepy, then another amazon joins the ranks and if he tries it again with her he's apt to hear Back off, dude, meathooks to yourself.

Good on you for your restraint. What you need now is either a good romp with your kids or a nice long hot bath with lots of bubbles, perfumed soap and a flickering candle or two. And if there's a Mr. Brebis Noir, invite him in, do your ecological thing, save water, bath with a sweetie.

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Originally posted by skdadl:
I think you're right that there are many people who just have a different sense of social distance, although it is also true that a lot of men (maybe especially older, but who knows?) make proprietary assumptions about women, just can't get past seeing us more or less in the way they would see children or pets.

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I don't know what was going on in his head, but from the words we exchanged during Bill the cat's procedure, I got the definite impression he considered himself to be a colourful and interesting person. When I remarked that Bill's teeth appeared to be sticking out at strange angles, he told me that several years ago his neighbour had broken Bill's jaw with a shovel - and that the neighbour ended up eating meals through a straw for a week or so as well.

Then, when I remarked that Bill's claw had stopped bleeding rather quickly, he said he was a faith healer (une personne qui arrête le sang, as they're called around here.)

From those exchanges, I considered him to be somewhat of a child and treated him accordingly (in the sense that I don't consider it appropriate to discipline someone else's child, I figured that if he didn't already know that his behaviour was beyond the limits, nothing I said or did was going to teach him anything!)

While walking with some associates to the car, I heard the following comment from a woman, who was speaking to "John".

"John, only my husband touches my neck. If anyone else does, they go to jail."

[ 13 July 2005: Message edited by: brebis noire ]

I handled it by just moving out of the line of fire. No doubt that's maybe easier for me to do than a woman. It was definately odd though.

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Originally posted by brebis noire:
Also: they go to jail? Who is she, the Queen of England?

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I was thinking the same thing...I might adapt that by replacing "jail" with "the hospital"!

In any case, I wouldn't be overly sensitive about the "husband" part, personally. The idea is supposed to be, only men I'm intimate get to touch me that way. And you don't qualify, so hands off!

[ 13 July 2005: Message edited by: Michelle ]

I will admit to being an uptight anglo bitch, ok? (And I really am: I internalized all these rules of social distance, and I've never entirely got over them.)

All the same, I don't know how many times I've heard European men trying that out as a line. Their physical insinuations are just expressions of a more joyful and free culture than mine, and my reactions to them are a measure of how uptight I am ... Yeah, sure.