quote:

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Originally posted by Hephaestion:
Continued from this thread

It might seem like this is a dead issue, now, but I'd like to keep a thread going for another day or two if possible, just to track what kind of coverage (or non-coverage) this gets in the media.

I heard a "blurb" about 10 seconds long on CBC Radio earlier... wow! You folks get the Gnashional before me -- did it even rate a mention?

For a change I have some sympathies for the Reformatories, as vile as they are. Can you imagine the denunciations, the finger-pointing, the histrionics that would have gripped CBC if this had been a Reformatory big-wig that did this? Gawd, our "public broadcaster" makes me peeee-yook sometimes...

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Paul Wells is right... if this was the Executive Vice-President (Ontario) of the Conservative Party of Canada, the Liberals would be having a field day...

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Which blood vessels would Susan Murray and John Duffy be popping if they'd discovered a Conservative moron comparing an Asian-Canadian candidate to a dog?

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Stephen Heckbert, a spokesman for the Liberal campaign in Ontario, said Klander's blog was a personal one that did not reflect the view of the federal party.

He called the material "outside the bounds of good taste" and said Klander had apologized to Chow.

"Obviously, this is something the Liberal Party of Canada doesn't condone," Heckbert told the Canadian Press.

"It's our view that partisan rhetoric has its limits."

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[cp]

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Klander was a volunteer and did not play an official role for the Liberals during this campaign, Heckbert said, adding he's apologized to Chow.

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When as Paul Wells points out:

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CP is quoting a long-suffering Liberal spokesman to the effect that Klander was "a volunteer" who had no official role in the current campaign. This rather understates the guy's significance. He delivered Tony Dionisio to the Martin camp in '02, and together, they delivered Ontario. When Sheila Copps got uppity, Klander was dispatched to take proper care of her in Hamilton in '04. I fondly recall the first place I ever saw the guy: in the union-hall basement where Paul Martin announced to a breathless world in 2002 that he wasn't sure he could work with Jean Chrétien any more. That whole event was a Klander/Dionisio special. But they were just volunteers, you understand.

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link

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When Sheila Copps got uppity, Klander was dispatched to take proper care of her in Hamilton in '04.

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[ 27 December 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]

This was on CBC.ca:

A prominent member of the federal Liberal Party resigned Monday over comments he made on his blog about NDP Leader Jack Layton and his wife, NDP candidate Olivia Chow.

Mike Klander, a public affairs consultant in Toronto, had been executive vice-president of the party's Ontario wing.

He stepped down from the volunteer position after it was revealed that he had posted a picture of Chow on his personal blog alongside a picture of a chow chow dog, with the heading "Separated at birth."

Chow is running as the NDP candidate for the Toronto riding of Trinity-Spadina.

The blog, which has been taken offline, also contained nasty comments about Layton.

In an entry dated Nov. 23, he wrote: "I'm going away for a couple of days so I thought I would find something smart and witty to put up on my blog before I left. Unfortunately I couldn't think of anything so I just want to say that I think Jack Layton is an a**hole ... for no reason other than it makes me feel good to say it ... and because he is."

Stephen Heckbert, a spokesman for the Liberal campaign in Ontario, said Klander's blog was a personal one that did not reflect the view of the federal party.

He called the material "outside the bounds of good taste" and said Klander had apologized to Chow.

"Obviously, this is something the Liberal Party of Canada doesn't condone," Heckbert told the Canadian Press.

"It's our view that partisan rhetoric has its limits."

quote:

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Liberal quits after blog maligns Layton, wife

London Free Press, Canada - 2 hours ago

... Mike Klander, executive vice-president of the federal Liberal party's Ontario wing, stepped down after photographs of Chow, the NDP candidate for the Toronto ...

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Liberal exec resigns after blog controversy

Toronto Star, Canada - 7 hours ago

Mike Klander, executive vice-president of the federal Liberal party's Ontario wing, stepped down after photographs of Chow, the NDP candidate for the Toronto

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Harper Hopes Negative Campaign Backfires on Liberals

580 CFRA Radio, Canada - 1 hour ago

... described Harper as "creepy.". Mike Klander stepped down after word of his Internet blog leaked out. Harper says it's a campaign

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Blog bombshell hits Grits

Ottawa Sun, Canada - 10 minutes ago

... Mike Klander, executive vice-president of the federal Liberal party's Ontario wing, stepped down after photographs of Chow, the NDP candidate for the Toronto

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Liberal executive resigns after disparaging NDP politicians on ...

CBC News, Canada - 46 minutes ago

... Chow. Mike Klander, a public affairs consultant in Toronto, had been executive vice-president of the party's Ontario wing. He stepped

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Liberal resigns after posting insults on blog

CTV.ca, Canada - 5 hours ago

Mike Klander, executive vice-president of the federal Liberal party's Ontario wing, stepped down after photographs of Chow, the NDP candidate for the Toronto

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Federal Liberal party official quits over NDP blog remarks

Hamilton Spectator (subscription), Canada - 2 hours ago

Mike Klander, executive vice-president of the federal Liberal party's Ontario wing, resigned yesterday after he compared Chow to a dog and called Layton an

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Liberal exec resigns after comparing NDP's Olivia Chow to a dog on

Macleans, Canada - 2 hours ago

Mike Klander, executive vice-president of the federal Liberal party's Ontario wing, stepped down after photographs of Chow, NDP candidate for the Toronto

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Liberal exec resigns after comparing NDP's Olivia Chow to a dog on ...

940 News, Canada - 4 hours ago

Mike Klander, executive vice-president of the federal Liberal party's Ontario wing, stepped down after photographs of Chow, NDP candidate for the Toronto

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Liberal exec resigns after comparing NDP's Olivia Chow to a dog on ..

Brooks Bulletin, Canada - 7 hours ago

Mike Klander, executive vice-president of the federal Liberal party's Ontario wing, stepped down after photographs of Chow, the NDP candidate for the Toronto ...

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Liberal resigns after posting insults on blog

CTV.com, Canada - 7 hours ago

Mike Klander, executive vice-president of the federal Liberal party's Ontario wing, stepped down after photographs of Chow, the NDP candidate for the Toronto ...

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Liberal exec resigns after comparing NDP's Olivia Chow to a dog on ...

Brandon Sun, Canada - 8 hours ago

Mike Klander, executive vice-president of the federal Liberal party's Ontario wing, stepped down after photographs of Chow, the NDP candidate for the Toronto ...

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quote:

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Liberal exec resigns after blog comment

Canoe.ca, Canada - 10 hours ago

Mike Klander, executive vice-president of the federal Liberal party's Ontario wing, resigned today after he compared Chow to a dog and called Layton an "asshole

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[ 27 December 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]

[ 27 December 2005: Message edited by: nevermind ]

Mike Klander is a highly specialized and well respected government relations consultant assisting clients both at Queen’s Park in Ontario and at the Federal Government level in Ottawa.

Whether managing a crisis, proposing a new initiative, monitoring legislation, or simply building political relationships, Klander and Associates can help your business or association navigate through government decision making

His client include Imperial Tabacco...makes him a death pimp...too bad he didn't use his sick disparging sense of humor on those death merchants...good news is another sleazy Liberal political shit bites the dust....hahahah...now he can earn a living like the rest of us....

(I guess a PR gig at the Chow lovers club of Canada is out of the question for him)

BTW just in case anyone wants to comment personally to him about his sense of humor he kindly included his address and phone number on his website it is:

Mike Klander
7 Howland Road
Toronto, Onatrio
M4K 274
Canada

Phone: (416) 214-3258
Fax: (416) 214-1576

Email

[ 27 December 2005: Message edited by: nevermind ]

quote:

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Originally posted by quelar:
I'm still stunned here. How did he think this was going to go well for him?

Are we really being ruled by people this stupid?

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quote:

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Mike Klander is a highly specialized and well respected government relations consultant assisting clients both at Queen’s Park in Ontario and at the Federal Government level in Ottawa.

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It was evident to me, the minute I set foot in the place, that the fix was in. So here's the exchange I had with the Martin factotum, who we will call Mike.

He: "Hi, Warren."

Me: "Hi, Mike."

He: "Nice to see you here."

Me: "Yeah, I bet."

He: "What do you think?"

Me: "I think you are about to fuck over a woman who has been part of the heart and soul of the Liberal Party for twenty years. I think you ought to be ashamed of yourselves."

warrenkinsella.com
December 21, 2005

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Originally posted by writer:

Does Mike + Mike = Mike?

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When Sheila Copps got uppity, Klander was dispatched to take proper care of her in Hamilton in '04.

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Originally posted by Albireo:
In other words: Liberal party insider sells influence on Liberal governments, both federal and provincial. The same kind of crap that happened all the time under the Harris Conservatives.

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[ 27 December 2005: Message edited by: a citizen of winnipeg ]

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Originally posted by Screaming Lord Byron:

I think Kinsella may very well have the serious dirt on this one. If anything, this is his moment.

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Originally posted by Hephaestion:

So in the newsroom vernacular... this might have "legs".

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Simple mathematics, my dear Hephaestion.
The possibility of damage to the Martin camp x Warren Kinsella's (understandable) loathing for said camp x his contacts and past experiences = dirt. Big dirty, mucky dirt.

Watch his blog. He'll have something good for us, I'll bet.

[ 27 December 2005: Message edited by: Screaming Lord Byron ]

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I, like Sheila, am providing advice to people I like - in whatever party they belong to. Liberals, Tories, New Democrats, Green candidates. I, like Sheila, know the best thing that could happen to the Liberal Party of Canada is a loss - and, as soon as possible thereafter, the departure of Paul Martin and his coterie of well-paid thugs.

Some houses can be renovated, some houses you need to tear down and start over. This one is a tear-down.

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I read his blog quite a bit - he's obviously a bit of an egotist (although, that's probably a requisite for a blog, right?), and I did consider him a little over-zealous and slightly paranoid over the Liberal Civil War.

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Originally posted by Michelle:

Did you see his post about Layton from December 21? He's right.

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[ 27 December 2005: Message edited by: Albireo ]

What would the press do if Sheila, Laureen or Yolande had been viciously attacked like this by someone enjoying Mike Klander's position in another party? Is it fair game because Olivia's had the audacity to want an equal political voice, rather than play an appropriate quiet feminine role behind the scenes as "the leader's wife"?

Is the attitude that she's getting what she's asked for? Why is politics such an ugly, ugly game, attracting ugly backroom players like this? Is this really how we get people engaged in democracy? Or is it how we keep it restricted to those who can play mean and smeary. To those who don't have anything cheap and obvious to attack - like being a person of colour, a person with a disability, or gay, or lesbian, or trans, or a woman of any description?

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Originally posted by Tory Spelling:
Let the smears and slurs racial and otherwise by the Liberal party continue. Each one is another nail in their coffin. When you have rats cornered the only thing they know how to do is lash out. Bye Bye Lieberals.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tory Spelling:
Let the smears and slurs racial and otherwise by the Liberal party continue. Each one is another nail in their coffin. When you have rats cornered the only thing they know how to do is lash out. Bye Bye Lieberals.

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...actually, Tory, in this case that would most likely be Bye Bye Lieberals, hello New Democrats.
Hope you enjoy seeing YOUR party get the same number of seats as last time.

[ 28 December 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]

quote:

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Ianno slams Liberal blog

Liberal MP Tony Ianno, whose re-election campaign in Trinity-Spadina riding was sideswiped by Mike Klander's racially charged blog entries, is condemning the antics of the Toronto Liberal organizer.

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Sticking it to Teflon Grits no easy task

Scandal is a "discreditable" circumstance or event that brings a person into disgrace. Their reputations suffer but the need is to call an image repairman, not the police.

Corruption, on the other hand, is the "destruction" and "putrefaction" of an institution or from its intended purpose.

When people in public life discharge their duties in a corrupt way, by bribery, favouritism or stealing, they corrupt the institutions by which we are governed.

If the poll numbers are to move in the mean month of January, someone besides Gilles Duceppe is going to have to make that distinction.

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Does it bother anybody else that the Conservatives are playing this up so much?

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Yes, but the MSM double standard and Liberal Party bias is an issue here.

In recent elections, if a Reformer, CCRAPer, Reform-a-Tory or non-Progressive Conservative candidate was found to be spouting racist, sexist, homophobic or other despicable garbage, then Liberal mouthpieces and their apologists in the MSM would be out there yelling that ALL of the Reformers, CCRAPers, Reform-a-Tories or non-Progressive Conservatives MUST be bigots, racists and/or homophobic Nazis.

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I remember when, as a young high school student, he came into my office interested in knowing more about the Liberal party. His father was a diehard New Democrat, but Mike thought the Liberal Party might be a more realisitic way to help people. As a young man, he wanted to get involved to make things better. Over the years, it became simply about the win. My last images of Klander involve him working against me (and for the Martin/Tony Valeri side) in the ugly battle over the Liberal nomination in Hamilton East-Stoney Creek last year.

His blog struck me as stunning in its ignorance. No depth there, simply hate. Martin good, everyone else bad.

... In today's party machine, non-white voters are viewed as commodities, to be traded for seats which will guarantee a majority. The only difference in the Klander blog is that the public actually found out.

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In the Martin backrooms, fitting in tends to mean "old boy" and bathroom humour, and ensuring your place is secured by tearing others down.

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On the one hand, I do believe that is true of the Martin backrooms.

On the other, I tend to assume it is also true of a lot of other backrooms.

The only thing I don't like about Sheila's column, which hits so many targets so well, is the implication that only Martinite Liberals run by the old-fashioned macho rules.

quote:

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Originally posted by Doug:
Just goes to show, don't let your babies grow up to be Liberals.

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Or cowboys.

quote:

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Originally posted by pogge:
Sheila Copps weighs in: Liberals' seamy side

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quote:

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On it, Klander claims he will never run for office because he does not want to be forced to be nice to stupid people.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hephaestion:
Oh, please forget that the last six minutes or so of the newscast was taken up by the gripping story of a Winnipeg family that tries to fit as many family members as possible on a toboggan)...

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quote:

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Originally posted by RealityBites:
Poor lad. Guess that means he doesn't masturbate.

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So Heph, don't leave me hanging - how many 'peggers can you fit on a boggin, and how many are FN, etc?

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quote:

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Layton slams Liberals for racist taunts against his wife, an NDP candidate

"I frankly never expected that we would face such things, that a candidate would be singled out," Layton said in his first public appearance since before Christmas.

"I certainly hope racial slurs will come to an end in this campaign."

Layton noted that Europeans who controlled portions of China in the past used to hang signs that read "no dogs or Chinese allowed," and said no Chinese person familiar with their history will ever forget those signs.

"This is no joke, and I think it's a culture of arrogance that has set in . . . and the election will have to deal with it," he said. "It reminds us that insults flow from arrogance. There is far too much of this in today's Liberal party."

Chow appeared with Layton later Thursday at a campaign event in the city's east Chinatown district, and said the comparisons to the dog on the Liberal website were hurtful.

"I think I was tremendously saddened," she said. "To have this kind of racial slur is humiliating. I think the true mask of the Liberal party has been taken off, and I certainly hope on Jan. 23 people will understand that it is time for a change."

Layton compared the web-based insult to school-yard behaviour, and said it's the same kind of discrimination many new Canadians face when they look for a job.

"That kind of attitude has no place in our country," he said. "Canada should not be governed by people who think that way."

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Here's an image of a white cat.

And here's an image of a black and white cat

And here's the average sucker ... I mean Canadian at election time

[ 29 December 2005: Message edited by: Fidel ]

[ 29 December 2005: Message edited by: Hephaestion ]

According to the editors of the Grope, calling Klander's vicious slur racist is way over the top and completely unjustified.

Bad NDP! Playing the race card against the Liberals!

quote:

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NDP Leader Jack Layton and his wife Olivia Chow were in Toronto Thursday where they campaigned among the Chinese-Canadian community -- and characterized the offensive blog posting about her by a now-resigned Liberal official as racist. But was it a racist taunt?

...

Question: For those who say Mike Klander's post on Chow was racist, is it because Olivia Chow is Chinese? If she had been Caucasian and named Collie, and Klander did a similar photo comparison of her and a collie dog, would that have been equally offensive or less so? How about if he did it about a white man named Collie?

Klander was executive vice-president of the Ontario wing of the federal Liberal Party until he resigned on Boxing Day -- three days before Layton and Chow made their statements.

However, Layton and Chow didn't speak publicly about it until a day when they were appearing before Chinese-Canadian audiences (on Dec. 27, the NDP issued a statement about the Boxing Day shootings in Toronto).

They didn't say it was an attack from one person. Remember, Chow said: "To have this kind of racial slur is humiliating. I think the true mask of the Liberal party has been taken off, and I certainly hope on Jan. 23 people will understand that it is time for a change."

...

Question: Since the offending individual apologized and her opponent disavowed the insult, why didn't that end the matter for Chow and Layton?

One unpleasant answer could be that Chow and Layton are comfortable with the tactic of painting all Liberal Party members as anti-Chinese racists if it will hurt Liberal popularity (both their ridings have sizable Chinese-Canadian components).

They aren't alone. Here are remarks by Stephen Harper...

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[ 03 January 2006: Message edited by: writer ]

quote:

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Your editorial, Ah, C'mon, Jack (Dec. 31) suggests New Democratic Leader Jack Layton can't take a joke. C'mon yourself; this is no joke. The name-calling of Mr. Layton and his wife Olivia Chow by a Liberal Party official was despicably low, vulgar and racist, and Mr. Layton was right to say so.

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Your editorial excoriates Jack Layton for suggesting a racist dimension to Mike Klander's insult to Olivia Chow. I believe Mr. Layton was entirely realistic in making this connection. I base my belief on 27 years work in public transportation where, as an invisible servant, I have heard a broad cross-section of the public make appallingly racist remarks worthy of any 19th-century bigot.

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[ 03 January 2006: Message edited by: writer ]

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Originally posted by Krazee Eyes:
As someone who has faced racial discrimination, I think it's apalling that Jack Layton is trying to exploit this episode and paint all Liberals as racist. That's bullshit. And it is offensive to people of colour like me who have been systematically discriminated against all these many years.

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Yes, I agree it would be apalling if Jack Layton tried to paint all Liberals as racist. But of course Jack did not do that.

Moving from the hypothetical to the actual: Krazee Eyes, as a "person of colour who has been discriminated against all these many years", how do you feel about the comments made by Klander?

[ 04 January 2006: Message edited by: Paul Gross ]

quote:

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...Then there was the disgustingly sexist and racist chow-chow/Olivia Chow comparison made by Mike Klander, executive vice-president of the Liberal Party of Canada (Ontario) and president of the Toronto-Danforth Liberal Party Riding Association (my riding). Buh-bye. I am glad you won't be knocking on my door, mister...

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Originally posted by RealityBites:
I don't believe you're legit.

Perhaps in the future I'll be eating my words, but I don't think so.

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Yeah, whenever they pop-up at just this time to try to spin it...their credibility goes down the toilet.

[ 04 January 2006: Message edited by: Albireo ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Vansterdam Kid:
Yeah, whenever they pop-up at just this time to try to spin it...their credibility goes down the toilet.

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quote:

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I don't believe you're legit.
Perhaps in the future I'll be eating my words, but I don't think so.

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Originally posted by RealityBites:
I don't believe you're legit.

Perhaps in the future I'll be eating my words, but I don't think so.

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I don't believe that yo can deny my experiences just because you disagree with my opinion. Bu thw way, in the interest of actual discussion, what is the nature of your disagreement with me, other than your ad hominem attack?

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Originally posted by Krazee Eyes:
I don't believe that yo can deny my experiences just because you disagree with my opinion.

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You'll find an outline of how to send a compaint in the policy statement, which is found near the bottom right of any babble page (above the copyright).

[ 05 January 2006: Message edited by: writer ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Krazee Eyes:
And it is offensive to people of colour like me who have been systematically discriminated against all these many years.

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[ 05 January 2006: Message edited by: Makwa ]

Here's a shout out to my good race-traitor whitey peeps right now!

[ 05 January 2006: Message edited by: writer ]

quote:

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Originally posted by writer:
Krazee Eyes, your complaint is best directed to the moderators -

[email protected]
[email protected]

You'll find an outline of how to send a compaint in the policy statement, which is found near the bottom right of any babble page (above the copyright).

[ 05 January 2006: Message edited by: writer ]

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Thanks for letting me know of this.

I hope RealityBites reads this too and does the right thing from now on.

I'm just defending myself when attacked. Not that there's any point because I sink to the level of the poster who attecked me.

Take heart, krazee eyes. For you see, if I DID believe you were a person of colour, I would be forced to conclude that you are remarkably stupid, and that would be insulting indeed, so naturaly I wouldn't say it.

But thanks for your posting advice. I'll take it.

Why did you single me out?

Here, the poster appears on the board to make an argument that falsifies what Jack Layton said, and uses a claim to minority status to bolster his position.

It could be true...he has minority status and lies about Jack Layton.

Or, it could be that he lies about Jack Layton, and lies about his minority status.

quote:

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Kimberley, a unique, four season resort with first class amenities. This is a friendly community with a strong sense of community pride and a commitment to make our visitors’ stay pleasant and memorable.

The well-planned growth of our golf courses, ski resort and real estate developments have contributed to Kimberley's prosperity and strong tourism-based economy. While you are here, be sure to stroll through the picturesque Platzl open air shopping quarter and visit the delightful shops and restaurants.

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quote:

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Originally posted by RealityBites:

Why did you single me out?

Is it because I'm gay?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Krazee Eyes:
Sorry man you can't give it up. You're a hater and I'm not playing.

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I'm also not that worried about whether he's being honest about his race or sexuality, because I think his comments can be evaluated without bringing either of those factors into it. In other discussions, other people have provided enough context for me to accept their self-descriptions as true, or to suspect that their self-descriptions are false. And sometimes (i.e., not always) I find their reference to personal experience to provide some insight into a point that's being discussed. K.E.'s comments so far about his identity and experiences have been at a fairly general level. And that's fine for now. Perhaps he'll go into greater detail, and perhaps not.

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Originally posted by obscurantist:
I may be missing something, but where did K.E. (or anyone else) say that he was from Kimberley, B.C.? And how is it relevant?

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Postal code.

and

Y'see Krazee, there's an election going on and we get a lot of infiltrators here; people who are not what they pretend to be. Now we have excellent moderators here, so the infiltrators don't last.

*
Is this true? I thought the reason for all this was to have a forum to share opinions from wherever they come from.

On my first post (it was incomplete because I made a mistake) I got flamed right away,saying I was a fake poster making a fake post. Can someone tell me why?

quote:

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Originally posted by obscurantist:
Okay -- I missed the postal code. But still, aren't posters here more likely to be evasive about their real postal code than about other personal information? As has been noted in the past, your postal code isn't M5W 1E6.

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Well of course mine was chosen to obviously show that it's not my real postal code, rather than to mislead people into thinking I live somewhere I don't.