Zimbabwe's voters told: choose Mugabe or you get a bullet

It doesn't get much more blatant than that.

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A campaign that began with the tested tactic of beatings has evolved into a full-blown military strategy of abductions and murders of opposition MDC activists and supporters. More than 100 have been killed and 200 have disappeared. Thousands more have been beaten so badly they will bear the scars for life.

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2. afrol news reports that the Mugabe government has "threatened to arrest leaders of main opposition party." Mugabe accuses them of condoning election violence across the country.

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Mr Mugabe blames MDC leader Morgan Tsvangirai and other party leaders for allegedly inciting incidents of arson and rampant violence, which have rocked southern African state ahead of 27 June presidential runoff.

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The article goes on to point out that

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However, independent human rights observers, argue that Mugabe's security organs including state police, army and war veterans are behind rife aggression and intimidation designed to bolster Mugabe's stay in power. ... Independent observers have noted some retaliatory attacks, but say the magnitude of state-backed violence by far surpasses opposition's.

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Mugabe threatens to arrest MDC leaders.

3. Other important news is that Southern African Development Community (SADC) observers are flooding into Zimbabwe ahead of the 27 June presidential run-off. Estimates are that

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Director of SADC Organ on Politics, Defence, Peace, and Security, Tanki Mothae, said over 120 observers had been deployed and taking round in the country.

"We had earlier anticipated that we would have 300 observers or so but based on responses from member countries we will have more than 400 by polling day," said Mr Mothae.

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The US, although it has clearly made its aim of overthrowing the Mugabe regime, by whatever means, crystal clear, nevertheless is putting $7 Million into "election observation" teams. No word on what weapons equipment these teams will be provided with.

Election observers flood into Zim

4. A website that supports the MDC has itemized (so far) 1363 cases of violence in Zim.

political violence in Zim 2008

The details are remarkable and even outline who the alleged perpetrators were, or who led the violence in the case of a mixed group of attackers. Needless to say, whatever violence MDC supporters are carrying out is not listed on this map.

[ 18 June 2008: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

Viva la revolucion???

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The men who pulled up in three white pickup trucks were looking for Patson Chipiro, head of the Zimbabwean opposition party in Mhondoro district. His wife, Dadirai, told them he was in Harare but would be back later in the day, and the men departed.

An hour later they were back. They grabbed Mrs Chipiro and chopped off one of her hands and both her feet. Then they threw her into her hut, locked the door and threw a petrol bomb through the window.

The killing last Friday – one of the most grotesque atrocities committed by Robert Mugabe’s regime since independence in 1980 – was carried out on a wave of worsening brutality before the run-off presidential elections in just over two weeks. It echoed the activities of Foday Sankoh, the rebel leader in the Sierra Leone civil war that ended in 2002, whose trade-mark was to chop off hands and feet.

Mrs Chipiro, 45, a former pre-school teacher, was the second wife of a junior official of the Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) burnt alive last Friday by Zanu (PF) militiamen. Pamela Pasvani, the 21-year-old pregnant wife of a local councillor in Harare, did not suffer mutilation but died later of her burns; his six-year-old son perished in the flames.

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Originally posted by Fidel:
Mugabe should take a page from U.S.-backed African stooges' playbooks on fomenting violent elections. He should: declare victory ahead of the election date as Tsvangirai was instructed to do for the last election - rig the election - and then order police and military to murder hundreds and thousands of street protesters. It's a CIA turn-key solution for tainting elections.

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So in your view Tsvangirai is the one rigging the election??? In case you have forgotten, Mugabe is in control of the police and military and is ordering the violence. He was being wined and dined at a UN conference, while his citizens are having their rights abused and starving.

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Mugabe is in control of the police and military and is ordering the violence.

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Originally posted by Fidel:
No but the U.S. as well as Britain, Rhodesia's former brutal colonizers, were accusing Mugabe of rigging the last elections before they were even held. The MDC leader also declared victory before the election but fell short of a mandate. So the CIA and MI6, the masters of election rigging and fomenting violence in several other surrounding African nations, were wrong in accusing Mugabe of doing what they've done countless times before in struggling thirdworld hellholes rich in raw materials and basic human rights violations.

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And why would you care? Don't you support completely rigged elections like they have in Cuba? ie only one choice to vote for?

Of course he doesn't care what happens to Zimbabweans, unless the Great Satans can be blamed.

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Originally posted by Ghislaine:

And why would you care? Don't you support completely rigged elections like they have in Cuba? ie only one choice to vote for?

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Cuba has regular elections where candidates are chosen by Cubans themselves. Much more democratic than the plutocracies of North America where big business and the rich prop up political patsies to their agendas.

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I think there is a lot of evidence to indicate that Mugabe is violating human rights -

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I think you've already ignored several of my comments and concerns about illegit elections marred by violence in U.S. client states in Africa. However, if we must continue, then what do you think about this?:

Whose Election is it?

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The documentation of violence against MDC supporters has been gathered by the US Embassy in Harare, which is hardly neutral and has an interest in discrediting Zanu-PF to bring its favored vehicle, the MDC, to power. Human Rights Watch (HRW), which is dominated by former members of the US foreign policy establishment, has also been involved. But even HRW acknowledges the violence isn’t exclusive to supporters of Zanu-PF. “Eyewitnesses told Human Rights Watch that…MDC supporters had burned homes of known Zanu-PF supporters and officials.” [12] Louise Arbour, the UN’s top human rights official, who, in previous jobs has invariably sided with the US and Britain, notes that the information she has “received suggests an emerging pattern of political violence” that is not exclusively inflicted by supporters of Zanu-PF. [13]

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Cuba has regular elections where candidates are chosen by Cubans themselves. Much more democratic than the plutocracies of North America where big business and the rich prop up political patsies to their agendas.

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In Cuba, the Communist Party controls the state budget, and uses it to electioneer. It also controls the entire press, written and electronic.

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Originally posted by Fidel:

It seems Gordon Brown believes he has a better chance of influencing an election in Zimbabwe than he does at home.

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Leaving aside the ridiculous assertion that Cuba is a democracy - that topic has been argued many times in many other threads - what about Amnesty International?

Their coverage is here

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Amnesty International has condemned the detention of Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) leader Morgan Tsvangirai, saying that his detention was part of a sudden, sharp and dangerous crackdown on political opposition in the run-up to the elections.

“Morgan Tsvangirai should be released immediately – or charged with a recognizable criminal offense,” said Amnesty International.

According to reports, Morgan Tsvangirai was arrested at a roadblock north of Bulawayo and is being held at a police charge office in Lupane. It is not clear what the charges are against him.

In March 2007, Tsvangirai, along with other MDC and other civil society activists, was severely beaten while in police custody and had to be hospitalised.

His arrest comes the day after the publication by Amnesty International of a damning report highlighting the extensive human rights violations that have taken place since parliamentary and presidential elections were held in March 2008. These include unlawful killings, torture and other ill-treatment, beatings, and the harassment and intimidation of mainly MDC supporters and human rights defenders in Zimbabwe.

The organization revealed that a witness to the abduction of an MDC senatorial candidate Shepherd Jani by suspected Central Intelligence Organization (CIO) agents has gone into hiding after he and his family received threatening phone calls from men believed to be state agents, who told him to hand himself in at Harare Central Police station. Amnesty International says his life is at risk and his family has also been threatened.

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Here is Amnesty's full report of the situation since the election.

A snippet:

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The bulk of the human rights violations have been perpetrated by supporters of the Zimbabwe African National Union - Patriotic Front (ZANU-PF) party and members of the Zimbabwe National Liberation War Veterans Association (ZNLWA) (generally known as “war veterans”). State security organisations, in particular the Zimbabwe Republic Police (ZRP) have been unwilling to act against these perpetrators – allowing them to kill, torture, assault and burn homes and businesses of suspected MDC supporters with impunity. In fact, in some cases authorities have instigated or even directed attacks by these groups.

“War veterans” have been used in the past by the ZANU-PF government to spearhead violent campaigns against its opponents in the 2000 and 2002 elections. They also played a key role in the government’s violent land reform programme that started in 2000 following the defeat of the government in a referendum for a new constitution. Despite evidence of human rights abuses perpetrated by members of the ZNLWA, including setting up of camps where suspected opponents of ZANU-PF have been tortured, they appear to enjoy state protection from prosecution.

Police raid MDC headquarters in Harare

On 25 April, armed police raided the MDC party headquarters in Harare and arrested and detained at least 300 MDC supporters on allegations that they had committed various offences related to political violence. The detainees were mainly people who had taken refuge at the party’s offices after fleeing the violence in rural areas following the 29 March elections. The state-controlled Herald newspaper reported that 215 of those arrested were detained at Harare Central police station.9

According to information obtained by Amnesty International, 35 of those arrested were children whose age ranged from a few months to 11 years. The majority of the detainees were women and elderly people. About 180 of the detainees were released on 28 April after the MDC obtained a High Court order for their release. A senior MDC official told Amnesty International that on 27 April police at Braeside police station in Harare denied 14 women detainees access to food. MDC officials reportedly brought food for the detainees at around 6pm and were told by police officers on duty that they could not feed the detainees because there was no electricity. Although the MDC officials offered to provide alternative lighting police reportedly refused.

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There is lots more in their report, if you can stand to read it.

Do you dispute the objectivity of Amnesty International? If there is one organization I trust, it is them. They regularly speak out against American abuses against human rights and can be counted on to speak out against any country. Their only political agenda is human rights.

[ 18 June 2008: Message edited by: Ghislaine ]

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Originally posted by jeff house:
In Cuba, the Communist Party controls the state budget, and uses it to electioneer. It also controls the entire press, written and electronic.

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Municipal elections in Cuba are every two and a half years and provincial assemblies elections and the National Assembly are every five years.

Candidates for election in Cuba are not chosen by designated party delegates. In fact, no political party can nominate or campaign for any given candidates. In Cuba, candidates are chosen by grass-roots organisations, ie. Cuban voters themselves. When someone is nominated, no multi-billion dollar electioneering occurs as per the circus we're obligated to endure here in North America. In Cuba, the candidates' personal biography is posted in public places. And preferred candidates are then selected by Cubans using the secret ballot method.

Cuban elections of 2005 had greater than 97 percent participation rate. We can't get those percentages to show up for first past the majority election charades here in the plutocracies. And the red chamber in Ottawa is clearly an abomination of democracy. That old boys setup has no place in a real democracy. Not really.

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If you think Cuba is "democratic", you are just a fool. Either that, or you have decided to lie for the Party. I think it is probably the latter in your case.

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Jeff, which hawk do you think will win farcical American elections? What country do you believe warmongering plutocrats in the U.S. will wage blitzkrieg on next in clear violation of Nuremberg Code? How many hundreds of thousands of innocents will have to bleed to bloody death for the sake of an oiligarchy?

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Originally posted by Ghislaine:
Do you dispute the objectivity of Amnesty International? If there is one organization I trust, it is them.

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I simply asked what you thought of the very U.S.-friendly HRW's mention of MDC supporters burning houses down and other violence? Who do you believe? I tend to believe that Rhodesia's former brutal colonizers and their U.S. allies should not be funding NGO's and political parties in Zimbabwe. Because that is political interference in a sovereign country. Our plutocrats here would never allow foreign money into the country to support their political opposition. It's against the rules.

[ 18 June 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]

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Jeff, which hawk do you think will win farcical American elections?

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The one chosen by the voters.

And, as Tom Hayden points out, you have to be delusional to think of Obama as a hawk.

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Originally posted by jeff house:

The one chosen by the voters.

And, as Tom Hayden points out, you have to be delusional to think of Obama as a hawk

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John Pilger reaches back into the history of the Democratic Party and describes the tradition of war-making and expansionism that Barack Obama has now left little doubt he will honour.

It's been esimated that anywhere from 90 to 98 percent of U.S. presidential nominee's election campaigns are funded by billionaires and big business, which has the deliberate effect for pretty much eliminating independent candidates' election chances, like Nader and Kucinich.

Obama will not give them socialized medicine - even though a majority of Americans want the most privatized, most ineffecient and most expensive healthcare system in the world and delivering some of the worst health care statistics in the developed world - fixed because it's broken.

Obama is just another warmongering Liberal plutocrat, another figurehead leader for the vicious empire. Watch Obama bomb and destroy and wage blitzkrieg on another resource-rich or strategically situated sovereign nation. He will do it or McCain will, because that's what warmongering cosmetic leaders of the USSA do as instructed by corporate fascists running the show will demand of their chosen puppet.

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Trouble is, you ARE delusional.

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Until then, just keep crapping on democratic elections while supporting fascist and Communist tyrants.

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Originally posted by jeff house:
No, itès quite convincing. Someday, even you will wake up to the damage you do.

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I imagine Canada will see even more refugees of the USSA-UK's failed neoLiberal economic policies seeking a better life, and even more conscientious objectors fleeing what will be yet another American war on democracy in a far away sovereign country. Or perhaps Obama's or McCain's - and remember, these warmongering plutocrats will owe no political favours to their billionaire and corporate campaign sponsors - will be to maintain the current ongoing military occupations of oil-rich and Central Asian countries in the name of noble words, like "freedom" and "democracy." And it will be a colossal lie, once again.

About the personal attacks by Jeff House on individual babblers, or on babble itself, I presume that that will be addressed by a moderator if it's seen as important. A certain amount of dung-flinging is par for the course around here.

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jeff house: Supporting pretend-leftist dictators like Mugabe is allowed, because democracy is not one of the core values on babble.

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Originally posted by jeff house:
Most party members eventually leave the party, and recognise that supporting Nazism (as in the 30s) or Mugabe now, was disgusting.

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Originally posted by jeff house:
Yes, but Reverend Phelps is homophobic, and that isnèt allowed on babble. Supporting pretend-leftist dictators like Mugabe is allowed, because democracy is not one of the core values on babble.

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Here and here is what you are actually attempting to avoid defending. I'm convinced that your way is a road to living hell for billions of human beings,

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Yes, you are right, I am not defending right-wing repression. Never have, never will. On the contrary, as you know, I am on record condemning it.

But defending LEFT-WING repression, as you habitually do, is NO BETTER than defending the right wing variety.

The honest thing is to oppose repression whether it is done by the US, or Iran, or Mugabe, or Sweden. Once you instrumentalize the truth in favour of your party, you are no better that those who think it's ok to torture when the US does it.

You talk constantly about the abuses by certain governments but you never build institutions like the School of the America's into your analysis.

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Originally posted by jeff house:

Yes, you are right, I am not defending right-wing repression. Never have, never will. On the contrary, as you know, I am on record condemning it.

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...and then you do exactly that by zeroing in on any world leader who the vicious empire targets for regime change. It's tacit and quiet approval for the vicious empire's agenda. You'er highly opinionated on Cuba and Fidel and criticize from where points where water can get, but you don't seem to equate or connect the atrocities of Central America's U.S.-backed dictatorships and fascist criminals with having anything to do with U.S. managed elections or even direct U.S. military and CIA interference over the years. What you want for Cuba is to allow CIA meddling and U.S. dollars to flow into Cuba so that a U.S.-backed mafia regime can takeover and use the island for running illicit drugs again and turn it into another thirdworld, AIDS-ridden, human rights-violating free market basket case, like Haiti. 25 times the U.S. military and CIA invaded Haiti, and just look at them now! Is that what you want for Cubans instead of the right to food and to see a doctor on a regular basis? The point is, you can't point to any good examples in the Caribbean or Central America to follow in allowing U.S.-managed elections. And that's the only way right-wing Liberals will be satisfied with Cuba - when the kids are rummaging thru landfill sites and human excrement for trinkets to sell, just like Maico and El Salvador and Guatemala, Honduras and any other thirdworld capitalist shithole just a few day's drive from Texas.

What I do is defend the truth from people who repeat cold war era rhetoric and worn-out propaganda, and even little white lies told by right-wing sympathizing Liberals who repeat them in order to win credibility with political right. It's not that either of them can tell the difference anway.

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It's laughable to point to oppression, as you do, and then conclude that the only solution is Communism, which is equally repressive, and discredited to boot.

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Originally posted by kropotkin1951:

You talk constantly about the abuses by certain governments but you never build institutions like the School of the America's into your analysis.

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Originally posted by Doug:
How clear does this have to be? America behaving badly does not legitimize or excuse anyone else's human rights abuses.

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However I will not see some points of view silenced. Socialism communism anarchy social democracy are all political ideas without clearly defined boundaries. I find the constant red baiting to be destructive any debate that might discuss alternatives to the imperial systems we see in the world today.

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Zimbabwe's opposition leader has pulled out of Friday's runoff election against President Robert Mugabe because of mounting violence and intimidation against opposition candidates.

Morgan Tsvangirai, leader of the Movement for Democratic Change, announced his decision Sunday during a news conference in Zimbabwe's capital, Harare.

He also asked the United Nations "to intervene to restore the rule of law, peace, and the conditions of a free and fair election."

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CBC
http://tinyurl.com/646u5p

CTV
http://tinyurl.com/6hx2ro

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At independence, Zimbabwe inherited a racially skewed agricultural land ownership pattern where the white large-scale commercial farmers, consisting of less than 1% of the population occupied 45% of agricultural land. Seventy-five (75) percent of this is in the high rainfall areas of Zimbabwe, where the potential for agricultural production is high. Equally significantly, 60% of this large-scale commercial land was not merely under-utilised but wholly unutilised.

Agrarian reform in Zimbabwe therefore revolves around land reform where the systematic dispossession and alienation of the land, from the black indigenous people during the period of colonial rule, are adequately addressed. The Zimbabwean Agrarian Reform involves restructuring of access to land, and an overall transformation of the existing farming system, institutions and structures. It includes access to markets, credit, training and access to social, developmental and economic amenities. It seeks to enhance agricultural productivity, leading to industrial and economic empowerment and macro economic growth in the long term.

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One side of this political battle is for land reform while the other is for NeoLiberal economic policies similar to the ones that have worked to increase concentration of wealth in the hands of a few around the world where tried since the 1980's. And the side representing economic Liberalization has financial backing of Rhodesia's former brutal colonizers, Britain, as well as the U.S.A.

[ 22 June 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]

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Even by the standards of Zimbabwe's opposition leader, this was an astounding u-turn. Only last week, Mr Tsvangirai said boycotting the election would be a "betrayal of the victims" of the wave of political violence.

Now, after his followers have endured eight years of torment at Mr Mugabe's hands, Mr Tsvangirai has chosen to capitulate a mere five days before the final round of a vital election in which he was the leading candidate.

"He has this tendency to go along with the last person he spoke to," said one of Mr Tsvangirai's despairing advisers.

It was not always so. Mr Tsvangirai was once an inspirational leader who carried the hopes of his country.

A burly trade unionist, he had the popular touch and an immense following among Zimbabwe's urban poor.
….

Mr Tsvangirai defied a murderous terror campaign to win 57 seats in the parliamentary polls of 2000 and run Mr Mugabe close in the violent presidential elections of 2002.

For all his courage, however, Mr Tsvangirai greatest asset was the collapse of Mr Mugabe's popular standing as Zimbabwe sank into a morass of violence and economic mismanagement. Instead of exhibiting any great talents, Mr Tsvangirai simply became the obvious "Anyone But Mugabe" candidate.

His flaws soon came to the surface. Mr Tsvangirai is almost incapable of taking a decision and then sticking to it. Consistency has no place in his psychology.

He will tell his audience whatever he believes they want to hear. After the murderous parliamentary polls of 2000, his followers wanted to hear that he would use "mass action" to oust Mr Mugabe with street protests. Mr Tsvangirai repeatedly promised to do exactly that - while lacking any plan or serious intention of keeping his pledge.

Far from being an autocrat, Mr Tsvangirai is easily led. He borrows the constantly changing opinions of an eccentric "kitchen cabinet" of advisers.

By 2005, his "kitchen cabinet" was organising assaults on his critics within the MDC, with at least one attempted murder taking place inside the party's national headquarters.

They registered the MDC's assets in their own names and forced some of the party's followers to flee to South Africa for their own safety. Mr Tsvangirai appeared unwilling or unable to stop this.

The party formally split in 2005 over whether to contest elections for a new Senate. After his customary period of vacillation, Mr Tsvangirai favoured a boycott. The MDC's national executive voted to contest. Afterwards, Mr Tsvangirai blithely told the media that the committee had backed his position.

Had the MDC stayed united, Mr Tsvangirai would have had a clear run against Mr Mugabe in the first round of this year's election, without the opposition vote being divided by a third candidate, Simba Makoni. Under these conditions, Mr Tsvangirai would almost certainly have won outright, clearing the 50 per cent hurdle and avoiding a run-off.

Instead, his own leadership failings made the election's final round necessary and, after his traditional period of indecision, he has now capitulated. Does Mr Tsvangirai have an alternative plan for opposing Mr Mugabe? The only certainty is that he does not.

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[ 22 June 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]

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Zimbabwe's opposition leader, Morgan Tsvangirai, has pulled out of the presidential run-off against Robert Mugabe saying he will no longer participate in "this violent, illegitimate sham of an election process".

Tsvangirai, head of the Movement for Democratic Change (MDC), announced his decision at a news conference in Zimbabwe's capital as ruling party militants blockaded the site of an opposition rally.

Citing political violence, he said a free and fair poll on Friday would be impossible and called on the United Nations and the African Union to intervene to stop "genocide" in the former British colony.

Tonight South Africa's President Thabo Mbeki said he would encourage Mugabe and Tsvangirai to meet to discuss Zimbabwe's political crisis.
Conditions as of today do not permit the holding of a credible poll.

"Given the totality of these circumstances, we believe a credible election is impossible. We can't ask the people to cast their vote on June 27 when that vote will cost their lives. We will no longer participate in this violent sham of an election.

"On June 27, Mugabe has declared war, and we will not be part of that war. Our victory is certain, but it can only be delayed."

Tsvangirai said that by Wednesday he would release new proposals on how to take the country forward but did not provide any details about what his plans would include.

His decision follows a campaign of brutality in which independent human rights groups estimate 85 people have died and thousands have been evacuated from their homes.

The opposition leader himself has been detained by police five times while campaigning and he says at least 70 MDC members have been murdered.

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Opposition leader in Zimababwe, Morgan Tsvangirai, could have won Friday's election had he not backed off, according to an opinion poll. Sixty three percent of voters would have voted for Tsvangirai, giving him an undisputed win, reports in Zimbabwe show.

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The electoral victory was there.

There are some legal arguments being made, on behalf of the MDC, claiming that without a lawful runoff being held the winner of the March 29 election ought to be declared the winner. Tsvangirai pulling out may, in fact, also be a strategy of claiming victory without actually having the second vote this Friday.

Claim victory without a vote?

[ 23 June 2008: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

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Originally posted by N.Beltov:

The electoral victory was there.

There are some legal arguments being made, on behalf of the MDC, claiming that without a lawful runoff being held the winner of the March 29 election ought to be declared the winner. Tsvangirai pulling out may, in fact, also be a strategy of claiming victory without actually having the second vote this Friday.

Claim victory without a vote?

[ 23 June 2008: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

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Near as I can tell, victory is still within the grasp of the MDC. Backing off may just enbolden the violent elements in ZANU-PF, the police, etc..

But perhaps the MDC leader will have his mind changed again, before Friday rolls along?

Here's a different suggestion from a commentator on allAfrica.com

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I think we have to respect Morgan and MDC for their decision not to participate in the runoff. I think a number of factors influenced them: 1) SADC was not going to recognise the election outcome and had been pushing them to pursue a deal with ZANU (PF). 2) Tsvangirai's chances of winning had vanished not because he was no longer popular with the people but because ZANU (PF) had made it clear that voting for Tsvangirai was akeen to voting for death and that Mugabe was still going to be the President regardless of the outcome of the election. 3) ZANU (PF) had taken the MDC stronghold of Harare captive over the past weekend. The fact that the majority MDC residents of Harare had not resisted the takeover of their city showed how vulnerable the MDC was in the event that Tsvangirai won and Mugabe carries out his threat to unseat him. It appeared as if ZANU (PF) was rehearsing for what they would do in the unlikely event of an MDC victory.

I am not sure if the path Tsvangirai and MDC chose was the best option for them as a party but it looks like it was the best option for the majority of Zimbabweans who liked MDC but were not going to vote for them for fear of their lives. For the political survival of himself and his party, Tsvangirai must now pursue some kind of arrangement with ZANU (PF). I think he can now embrace Mugabe's presidency in exchange for a change in the constitution to create a position of Prime Minister for him.

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I'm not sure how realistic this is. However, the MDC does have a majority in their Parliament, so unless Mugabe declares Presidential diktat then he's going to have to work with the opposition whether he likes it or not.

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Originally posted by Ghislaine:

But can you blame him? He said he is basically cannot ask people to go out and literally risk their lives to vote.

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Originally posted by Stockholm:
I'd like to see South Africa declare an embargo on Zimbabwe ...

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They would, if it wasn't for the fact that South Africa's leaders are not so high anymore on the NeoLiberal shinola that their own country was introduced to in the recent past - the same economic ideology which the vicious empire is attempting to shove down their throats in Zimbabwe. They are refusing to condemn Mugabe for the reason that they know the vicious empire has been interfering in Zimbabwean elections.

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Originally posted by Stockholm:
This has nothing to do with right and left. This is about ridding the world of a man who is PURE EVIL.

Mugabe just kills for the pure pleasure of doing it - just like Idi Amin and Jean Bokassa.

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Originally posted by Rabelais:
There are very few people I wish would just do the world a favour and have a massive stroke.

Robert Mugabe is one of them.

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Massive stroke? He might still have limited powers of communication, and he obviously has underlings ready to do his every bidding. Surely you must be wishing for something more effective - like swallowing a nuclear device? Or being torn to pieces by savage beasts?

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Originally posted by Coyote:
Could you please provide us an index of PURE EVIL so that we can peruse it?

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Is that my voice? Is that MY voice?

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hahahaha love that flick

[ 23 June 2008: Message edited by: Coyote ]

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Originally posted by unionist:

Massive stroke? He might still have limited powers of communication, and he obviously has underlings ready to do his every bidding. Surely you must be wishing for something more effective - like swallowing a nuclear device? Or being torn to pieces by savage beasts?

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Nah, if he knocked out enough of the middle cerebral artery in the left hemisphere, that'd take care of that little snag quite nicely.

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Originally posted by Fidel:
Like,... like what the CIA and Belgians did to Patrice Lumumba in 1961? They tortured him to death over a course of a few days. The kleptocrat Mobutu Sese Seko was installed by the west and was the beginning of the end for millions of Congolese in yet another resource-rich African re-colony.

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What? No, nothing like that. An atherosclerotic plaque rupture, more likely, brought on by years of ingesting and regurgitiating the high-caloric, high-cholesterol crap that he seems to have most of his oblivious defenders on this board eating out of.

the election is no longer credible (you tube link)

Morgan Tsvangirai / MDC media release:

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In the letter we are stating clearly that we are not participateing in this election. We are saying a free and fair election is impossible in the prevailing circumstances

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[ 24 June 2008: Message edited by: TemporalHominid ]

(a) Tsvangirai has left his name on the ballot;

(b) he and the MDC have not contacted the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission to inform them that he has pulled out of the election;

(c) on the contrary, Tsvangirai has written a letter to the ZEC demanding that the election run off be cancelled and that it will "be a nullity" in any case;

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In any event, as I have already pointed out, the election set for the 27th June 2008 is not a proper election but a nullity. In the circumstances, the question of the withdrawal from such an election and the notice thereof cannot be an issue.

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In other words, Tsvangirai will not withdraw from the election but declares the result invalid in advance.

Letter to ZEC from Tsvangirai

Give Tsvangirai credit, however; he has outlined why he thinks a free and fair election cannot be held, that it would be a travesty, etc., but if you read the letter carefully you will see that he has not, technically, withdrawn. He outlines: reasons for the ZEC to withdraw the election; the failure by the ZEC to ensure free and fair elections; violence; threats of war; participation of uniformed forces in ZANU-PF campaigning; intimidation; non-access to media; the banning of MDC meetings and rallies and the disruption of MDC meetings; disenfranchisement of voters and lack of access to rural areas.

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These are all good points. However, I presume that if he wins the vote he will respect the result and if he loses the vote then he will reject the result. And this is what Tsvangirai is also criticizing Mugabe for.

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False equivalence. It's Mugabe who is trying to steal the election not his opposition.

I notice none of the Mugabe lovers here have bothered to try to rationalize his quotes that have essentially made the election moot.

Clearly at this point, the starting point for a solution to Zimbabwe's problems is for Mugabe to be assassinated, preferably by a fellow citizen.

[ 24 June 2008: Message edited by: Adam T ]

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Originally posted by jeff house:
The Mugabe lovers here are the same ones who have contempt for the election in the United States, and recommend escapism to participation, and they are the same ones who don't think elections are important in Cuba.

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We can have free and fair elections or U.S. interference, but we can't have both.

Google Results 1 - 10 of about 286,000 for U.S. interference in elections

U.S. managed elections, with the threat of violence,
are called "democratic"

I don't think violent U.S. managed elections are a priority for Cubans, Jeff. Look at Haiti just 55 miles from Cuba. It's a shithole with concentrated pockets of wealth living side-by-side with abject poverty and despair in the large majority. They can't afford to eat dirt in the same country dubbed "The most freely trading nation in the Carribe" Someone tell Yanqui imperialists to keep their stinking paws off Cuba.

[ 24 June 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]

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I don't think violent U.S. managed elections are a priority for Cubans, Jeff

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I don't think you have the foggiest idea what is a priority for Cubans.

Your problem is that there's NOWHERE you think elections are a priority.

As for the asinine canard that elections in Cuba have to be violent, or U.S. managed, that's far from true. Even you must have noticed that in Nicaragua, Ecuador, Brazil, Bolivia and Venezuela, non-violent elections have occurred, and the result wasn't "US managed".

quote:

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Originally posted by jeff house:
Face it, you are just a shill for dictatorship, and you'll use any threadbare apologetic you can to justify your party's machine staying in power.

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Originally posted by Adam T:
Clearly at this point, the starting point for a solution to Zimbabwe's problems is for Mugabe to be assassinated, preferably by a fellow citizen.

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Why not just a U.S. or Israeli air strike? The trouble with the "fellow citizen" scenario is that there are still too many who support him. I don't think they know any better. They're obviously not ready to govern themselves. Mind you, you gotta admire the courage of Morgan Tsvangirai: "Give me liberty, or give me... well, give me liberty!"

quote:

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Originally posted by jeff house:
Ok, how about this:

"Your support of the Tonton Macoute regime in Zimbabwe is quite lovely".

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There's actually more evidence for ton-ton macoutes Gladio-style terror in the Congo where over five million have been slaughtered by U.S. proxies Rwanda and Uganda since 1998 and ongoing today.

Ethiopia has become a CIA-led state ever more isolated than before with political opposition and hundreds of protesters killed after 2005 elections. And yet, Jeff House has chosen to ride the U.S. bandwagon against Cuba, Zimbabwe, and any other country that dares to defy the vicious empire. Were you always a mouthpiece for those funding the killing in Latin America, Africa and beyond, or does it come as a privilege of birth right?

[ 24 June 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]

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Originally posted by Fidel:

Look at Haiti just 55 miles from Cuba. It's a shithole with concentrated pockets of wealth living side-by-side with abject poverty and despair in the large majority. [ 24 June 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]

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Originally posted by Doug:

Look at Barbados or Costa Rica. It's a diverse region. Some countries there generally work and others don't. The reasons why aren't simple.

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Costa Rica was a staging nation for Contra Gladios marauding into Nicaragua during the vicious empire's war on poor people in that tiny country. Costa Rica has utilized some socialism over the years, and Cuban doctors have helped them with several aspects of health care. The Cubans pulled out at some point saying their system was rife with corruption.

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And yet, Jeff House has chosen to ride the U.S. bandwagon against Cuba, Zimbabwe, and any other country that dares to defy the vicious empire.

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Point of order! Don't insult my positions by associating them with some "US bandwagon". Probably you know that I am on record as calling George Bush a war criminal, and as supporting
governments such as that of Nicaragua, Bolivia (when it deserves it) Venezuela (same), and others.

What I don't like are dictatorships. So, I don't like Cuba, and I don't like Mugabe.

It is really horrid that you would feel free to associate support for elections with support for "the US bandwagon".

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Originally posted by jeff house:

Point of order! Don't insult my positions by associating them with some "US bandwagon". Probably you know that I am on record as calling George Bush a war criminal, and as supporting
governments such as that of Nicaragua, Bolivia (when it deserves it) Venezuela (same), and others.

What I don't like are dictatorships. So, I don't like Cuba, and I don't like Mugabe.

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Which, coincidentally and by wild chance, just so happen to be on the USSA's target list for regime change.

And you rarely if ever deviate from the chickenhawk's blacklisted nations. Ethopia, Rwanda, Uganda, Chad, and the remainder of U.S. proxies with highly questionable democracies in Africa are never a concern for mouthpieces of those funding the killing in Africa and Latin America.

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Wasn't this what Stalin used to do? Socialists not in the Communist party were "traitors" (just before he killed them off?)

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Yes and especially the ones who wanted to wage peace against the Nazis and capitulate to the invasion, become slave labourers for the corporate-sponsored war machine and be worked to death as per the 14 million at Pina Munda and more secret munitions plants bustling with western kapital investments for over ten years leading up to the war of annihilation against Soviet communism.

Likewise with the corporatist Hitler whose legacy was an unfinished Holocaust in Russia, Ukraine, Europe, Baltics, Balkans, and who knew where after that.

The vicious empire hired Hitler's intelligence officers and former Praetorian guardsmen SS to spy on our World War Two allies after 1945 and wage Gladio terror against right up to 1989, Yugoslavia 1999 and continuing today in Central Asia and Africa. Wouldn't you have been a little paranoid about that, Jeff? I didn't think so.

[ 24 June 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]

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Were you always a mouthpiece for those funding the killing in Latin America, Africa and beyond, or does it come as a privilege of birth right?

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And you rarely if ever deviate from the chickenhawk's blacklisted nations

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I just looked upthread and saw Jeff had been asked to stay out of the forum, but Fidel your remarks are beyond the pale. These are personal attacks and against policy. Associating Jeff with the US chickenhawks is absurd as is the remark quoted above.

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ANC: "Compelling evidence of violence, intimidation and outright terror; the studied harassment of the leadership of the MDC, including its presidential candidate, by the security organs of the Zimbabwean government; the arrest and detention of the secretary general of the MDC; the banning of MDC public meetings; and denial of access to the Zimbabwe Broadcasting Corporation - have all convinced us that free and fair elections are not possible in the political environment prevalent in Zimbabwe today.

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The ANC is calling for a negotiated settlement:

"The ugly incidents and scenes that have been visited on the people of Zimbabwe persuade us that a run-off presidential election offers no solution to Zimbabwe's crisis. In a society that is already highly polarized, a run-off election will only serve to widen the divisions."

ANC "dismayed"

Full ANC statement

[ 24 June 2008: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

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On the one hand, I see his point. On the other hand, if no one ever risked their life for change I'd probably still be paying a tribute to my vasal lord.

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N Beltov wrote:

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Yea, I found that objectionable as well. Pat Robertson made a similar remark in regard to Hugo Chavez, President of Venezuela. But such remarks don't belong here. Dial it back, will ya?

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Apparently N Beltov and Unionist have no problem with the idea that ordinary people might get assassinated by Mugabe's thugs in Zimbabwe, but they do have a problem with the idea of the thug himself being assassinated.

This isn't surprising. They and the other Mugabe appologists here have already shown far more concern for the rights of kings than for the rights of the common citizens. N Beltov, Unionist and the other Mugabe apologists certainly don't fit into any definition of 'leftist' that I know of (except for the one favored by Lenin, Stalin and Mao).

[ 24 June 2008: Message edited by: Adam T ]

I don't agree with a lot of what they've said on Zimbabwe, but that's a teensy weensy bit of a cheap shot.

They don't love Mugabe. They just have deep suspicions about the motivations of outside countries in opposing him. Unfortunately, Tsvangerai's choices(his embrace of some neoliberal economic policies and his apparent willingness to let outside economic interests steal control of some of Zimbabwe's resources) tend to feed those suspicions.

It's the 1989 dilemma again:

Who do you support, a discredited, dictatorial regime whose policies have some vaguely socialist components, or a "democratic" opposition that has made a devil's bargain with those who want to rob the country under the dictatorship blind?

Tsvangerai need to make it clear that the MDC won't favor mass privatization and that they'll prevent the West from making off with everything like bandits. And the British need to stay the hell out of this one, because, as the former colonial power, they have no moral authority in this situation.

[ 24 June 2008: Message edited by: Ken Burch ]

I've had strong disagreements with N. Beltov on a number of threads (that's what happens when you both hold strong opinions), but I can't ever recall him engaging in personal attacks.

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"Mugabe lovers"? sheesh
I don't agree with a lot of what they've said on Zimbabwe, but that's a teensy weensy bit of a cheap shot.

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Yes, I agree with that. I was going to call them Mugabe apoligists or Mugabe enablers, which I think describes them completely acurately, but I decided to be more provocative.

Maybe it was a mistake on my part, I was a bit tired when I wrote it, it is rather harsh and a personal insult.

Jeff House will be taking as long a vacation as Fidel, starting now.