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» babble   » current events   » international news and politics   » Afghanistan - Still losing the war, Part 9

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Author Topic: Afghanistan - Still losing the war, Part 9
M. Spector
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posted 07 September 2008 08:57 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Legitimate successor to this thread.
quote:
The bearded, turbaned men gather beneath a large, leafy tree in rural eastern Nangarhar province. When Malik Mohammed speaks on their behalf, his voice is soft but his words are harsh. Mohammed makes it clear that the tribal chiefs have lost all faith in both their own government and the foreign soldiers in their country.

Such disillusionment is widespread in Afghanistan, feeding an insurgency that has killed 195 foreign soldiers so far this year, 105 of them Americans.

"This is our land. We are afraid to send our sons out the door for fear the American troops will pick them up," says Mohammed, who was chosen by the others to represent them. "Daily we have headaches from the troops. We are fed up. Our government is weak and corrupt and the American soldiers have learned nothing."

A strong sense of frustration echoed through dozens of interviews by The Associated Press with Afghan villagers, police, government officials, tribal elders and Taliban who left and rejoined the religious movement. The interviews ranged from the capital, Kabul, to the rural regions near the border with Pakistan.

The overwhelming result: Ordinary Afghans are deeply bitter about American and NATO forces because of errant bombs, heavy-handed searches and seizures and a sense that the foreigners do not understand their culture. They are equally fed up with what they see as seven years of corruption and incompetence in a U.S.-backed government that has largely failed to deliver on development.

Even with more foreign troops, Afghanistan is now less secure.

"It certainly is a mess. Security is the worst that it has been for years. Corruption is out of control. It impacts every single Afghan," says Doug Wankel, a burly 62-year-old American who coordinated Washington's anti-drug policy in Afghanistan from 2004 until 2007 and is now back as a security consultant. "What people have to understand is that what ordinary Afghans think really does matter."

The fear and fury is evident among the neighbors at Akhtar Mohammed's walled home deep within Nangarhar province, reached by a dirt road along a dirty brown canal. A dozen men lie on traditional rope beds beneath a thatched roof. Some wear the full-bodied beard of the devout, with a clean-shaven upper lip. Others have dyed their gray beards a flaming orange with henna to show that they have made the pilgrimage to the holy site of Mecca.

They live barely an hour's drive from an errant bombing last month that hit a wedding party and killed about 50 people. Khiel Shah says his home was raided two months earlier, and troops killed his nephew, a high school student.

An old man sits by moaning, "No, no, they weren't Taliban. They were going to the bathroom. They weren't even carrying guns."...

Inside the walled compound of the Independent Human Rights Commission in Kabul, workers are knee-deep in statistics that measure the dissatisfaction of Afghans. An army of workers crisscrossed 33 of the country's 34 provinces and took the opinions of 15,200 people, mostly in rural areas. The survey has not been released, but Ahmad Nader Nadery, the commissioner, gave The AP a preview.

The survey, done annually for the past three years, shows a steady deterioration in the social and economic stability of Afghans, Nadery says. Average debt last year was $1,000 and is now 20 percent higher. And up to 73 percent of Afghans say they cannot go to the government for help unless they have money or power.

"Elders say when they go to government officials, they face humiliation," Nadery says in his cramped ground floor office.

Najib, a policeman who asks not to be identified beyond his first name for fear of losing his job, reflects the general anger.

Since he joined Afghanistan's police force in 2001, he has been mistakenly bombed by a U.S. airplane that killed seven of his colleagues. He has paid bribes to government officials, he says, and taken bribes to balance his books. He recalls watching a friend buy a police job for $2,000, and notes that posts with better opportunities for bribery are available for upward of $10,000.

Corruption has made it easier for the Taliban to infiltrate police ranks and carry out lethal attacks, according to Najib.

"The president is crying, but nothing has changed," says Najib, who still walks with a limp from the U.S. bombing. "People are unhappy, and more and more it will become difficult for the Americans and good for the Taliban. These people (U.S. troops) are not making one mistake, but they are making one thousand mistakes and they are killing many people."...

"An Afghan trucker put it succinctly: 'Forget the Taliban, our biggest problems are with the police,'" says Seth Jones, an analyst with the U.S.-based RAND Corporation and author of a report on the rise of Afghanistan's insurgency....AP



From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 07 September 2008 09:04 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
A Canadian Press-Harris Decima telephone survey of 1000 Canadians, taken before the recent deaths of three more soldiers in Afghanistan, shows opposition to the war is growing.
quote:
The survey found that 61 per cent of respondents believed the cost of the country's mission in lives and money has been unacceptable, while only one in three - 32 per cent - said it was acceptable.

When asked overall, whether they would say the mission in Afghanistan has been a success, a failure or that it is too soon to tell, a majority of respondents, roughly 48 per cent, took the wait-and-see answer.

At least 30 per cent were prepared to categorically declare the mission a success.

It also appears that Canadians are resigned to carrying out the country's duty in Kandahar until 2011, but would oppose attempts to "lengthen or increase its commitment."

The survey said 57 per cent of respondents didn't want to stay longer in Afghanistan, even if the request came from United States.

And the results held steady no matter who in the White House was doing the asking - Republican John McCain or Democrat Barrack (sic) Obama.

Only 33 per cent said they would favour an extension. - CP, Sept. 5



From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 07 September 2008 10:11 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
97th Canadian soldier killed in Afghanistan today

Anyone else notice that most of the Canadian deaths recently seem to occur on weekends?

Counting the two aid workers and the diplomat, Sgt. Scott Shipway has the distinction of being the 100th Canadian to die to make Afghanistan safe for pipelines.

[ 07 September 2008: Message edited by: M. Spector ]


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M. Spector
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posted 07 September 2008 10:17 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Vote for quagmire? Making the war an issue

- rabble news


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unionist
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posted 07 September 2008 11:24 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by M. Spector:
97th Canadian soldier killed in Afghanistan today

Thanks for posting this, M. Spector. Perhaps this would be a good occasion for some party to issue a statement calling for immediate withdrawal of Canada from Afghanistan - rather than just more eulogies and condolences?


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munroe
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posted 07 September 2008 11:44 AM      Profile for munroe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Right on, Unionist. Bring this fiasco front and centre. 97 dead Canadians; 100s wounded; thousands of dead civilians and who knows how many wounded. As note above, unsurprisingly, the tide of opinion in Afghanistan turns against those who do the most harm which is now the Yanks.

This is not a legitimate war, but a war legitimised by the American wish to engage in war. It is not "defensive" and the original plea for sanction was more a reaction against a single action then anything real.

Out now! Say it loud and say it again. Make the Bush toadies in Ottawa (Harperites and the Liberals) pay for this and pay for the negative impact on Canada's stature in the world.


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unionist
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posted 07 September 2008 12:09 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
High profile Canadians who support the "mission"

Don't know how I never noticed this before - it's the cynically-named "Canada Afghanistan Solidarity Committee", and it's dedicated to the "continuation of a robust military engagement" in Afghanistan.

Here are their "founding members". They include such worthy Canadians as Terry Glavin and Stan Persky. I'm including the whole list here in case they try to edit or deny it some day.

Please contact some or all of these people and tell them they are doing a disservice to the people of Canada and Afghanistan:

quote:
Zachary Miles Baddorf, Journalist in Vancouver; Colette Belanger, Canadian Women for Women in Afghanistan (CW4WA) Board of Directors, Simon Bessette, LL.B candidate, University of New Brunswick; Melaney Black, CW4WA, Victoria; Natalie K Bjorklund, Ph.D, University of Manitoba; Marc-Andre Boivin, researcher, Université du Québec à Montréal Peacekeeping research group member; John Boon, Liberal Party activist; Ken Bryant, Associate Professor, Asian Studies, University of British Columbia; Jennifer Button, CW4WA – Victoria; Iona Campagnolo, PC, CM, OBC, Former Lt. Gov., British Columbia; Dominic Cardy, NGO director, Nepal, New Brunswick New Democratic Party; Mark Collins, Canadian Embassy, Kabul, 1975-77; Natasha Cowan, McGill University, business graduate; Stewart John Cunningham, Sess. Instructor, Historical Studies, U of T Mississauga; Steven Davis, Academics for Higher Education and Development, Montreal; Judith Desautels, Supporter, CW4WA, Amnesty International; Janice Eisenhauer, Executive Director, CW4WA; Lois Edwards, CW4WA, Manitoba; L. Chris Fox, Doctoral Candidate, University of Victoria; Paul Franks, Professor, Philosophy, University of Toronto; John Fraser, P.C., O.C., O.B.C., C.D., Q.C., LL.D. (Hon.); Terry Glavin, Author, journalist, adjunct professor, UBC; Stephen Glanzberg, law student; Sanja Golic, MA researcher (Afghanistan education); Robert Gillies, Citizen, Toronto, Ontario; Richard Gordon, Ph.D, Professor, University of Winnipeg (Books with Wings); Robert Harlow, Novelist, British Columbia; Najia Haneefi, Former Executive director, Afghan Women's Education Centre, Kabul; Daniel King, President, Conservative McGill; Ian King, Journalist, Columnist, Vancouver; Robert D. Lane, Res. Associate, Phil. & Religion, Malaspina U College; OJ Lavoie, Environment activist, McGill University; Jill Leslie, CW4WAfghan - Victoria Chapter; Bruce Lyth, British Columbia Young Liberals, vice-president; Flora MacDonald, PC, CC, O. Ont.Chair of CARE Canada; Doug McArthur, Professor of Public Policy, SFU; Dave Mann, Brantford, Ontario New Democrat, Euston Canada; Mark Masongong, Liberal Party activist; Jim Monk, Ontario gay rights, trade union activist; Gareth Morley, Lawyer, Victoria; Jonathon Narvey, Journalist, editor, copywriter, Vancouver; Lyle Neff, Poet, journalist, critic, Vancouver; Lauryn Oates, Vice-president, CW4WA; Tom O'Neill, Associate Professor, Social Sciences, Brock University; David A. Pariser, Professor, Art Education, Concordia University; Ben Parfitt, Journalist, researcher, Victoria; Stan Persky, Writer, philosophy instructor, Capilano College; Karim Qayumi, Afghan-Canadian community leader, Professor, Director of Excellence for Surgical Education and Innovation, Vancouver; John Richards, Professor, Public Policy Program, SFU; Ferooz Sekandarpoor, Production Manager, Ariana (Afghan) TV, Vancouver; Madeliene Tarasick, CW4WA, Kingston; Beryl Wasjman, Institute for Public Affairs – Montreal; Axel Van Den Berg, Professor, Sociology, McGill University; Morton Weinfeld, Sociology professor, McGill University; Ariana Yaftali, Afghan-Canadian, Manitoba.

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M. Spector
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posted 07 September 2008 12:26 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
A wall of shame!
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munroe
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posted 07 September 2008 01:39 PM      Profile for munroe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Stan Persky???? Makes no sense at all. He has more brains then to be mystified by nonsense after seeing and knowing Viet Nam up close. I assume as a "founding member" he had a view years ago, but being a scholar, Stan will have weighed the data since then.
From: Port Moody, B.C. | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 07 September 2008 01:46 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Stan Persky has been pretty consistent in supporting the Canadian war against Afghanistan, unfortunately - and in associating himself with that creep Glavin. Here is a piece co-authored by the two of them on May 7, 2008. It's long, but clear. Persky said:

quote:
So, my leftist bottom line is: a campaign to restore the social democratic state in Canada, and international solidarity, proceeding with all due caution. That notion of international solidarity includes support for the Canadian mission in Afghanistan. And like you, I haven’t heard a persuasive leftist (or rightest) case against it.

The misspelling of "rightist" may be an unconscious indication that Persky is no longer clear on what the word means...


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munroe
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posted 07 September 2008 01:57 PM      Profile for munroe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sad, He was a person I had a great deal of time for in a previos life. Seems, we would now have a stormy gulf in opinion on (in my mind) a critical issue. Where he sees social progress (or a hope for it)at the point of a machine gun, I see a very long process of discussion and debate (while clean water an and food are made available). Killing people tends to freeze their thought processes and encourage others, not change them.
From: Port Moody, B.C. | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 07 September 2008 08:26 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The August 22 massacre of civilians is the worst single incident in the past seven years. At the rate civilians are killed in Afghanistan, with little or no condemnations from Nato countries which form the core of the ISAF, one wonders whether the Afghans are lesser mortals. Imagine what would happen if a terrorist kills 95 US citizens or citizens of any of the Nato countries. Such a massacre would have dominated the headlines for weeks, if not months. Giving a melodramatic touch, the western media would also carry photographs of the dead children, interviews with their neighbours, friends and teachers and statements of grieving parents and political leaders. But 60 Afghan children who died in the US attack had none of it. No speaker addressing the ongoing Democratic Party convention, where anti-Iraq-war-and-pro-Afghan-war Barack Obama is being officially anointed as the candidate of the party, dared to mention the Afghan civilian massacre, though they talked about US troops serving in Afghanistan and Iraq.

The deaths of Afghan children were largely a news-in-brief item on major western television channels.

It is not only the US troops who kill civilians in Afghanistan. The British, the Canadians and others in the ISAF also kill civilians with impunity and later say "sorry" and promise compensation after investigations. Very little happen after these empty words.



Source

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Jingles
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posted 08 September 2008 12:34 PM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Massacre


quote:
As the doctor walks between rows of bodies, people lift funeral shrouds to reveal the faces of children and babies, some with severe head injuries.

Women are heard wailing in the background. “Oh God, this is just a child,” shouts one villager. Another cries: “My mother, my mother.”


quote:
The US military said that its findings were corroborated by an independent journalist embedded with the US force. He was named as the Fox News correspondent Oliver North,

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jester
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posted 08 September 2008 01:02 PM      Profile for jester        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
It is not only the US troops who kill civilians in Afghanistan. The British, the Canadians and others in the ISAF also kill civilians with impunity and later say "sorry" and promise compensation after investigations. Very little happen after these empty words.


Don't forget to include the Taliban who kill a lot more and don't bother with 'sorry', going straight to bragging about their atrocities.

Rather than very little happening in these cases, the bragging is immediately seized upon by the usual crowd as a legitimate example of 'losing the war'.


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unionist
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posted 08 September 2008 03:50 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by jester:

Don't forget to include the Taliban who kill a lot more and don't bother with 'sorry', going straight to bragging about their atrocities.


They have a right to kill each other. We have no right to join in. It's a little something called international law.

Anyway, if you believe invaders' stats about casualties, you must also believe that there were 90 "Taliban" women and children celebrating a wedding for a short while recently.


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Jingles
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posted 08 September 2008 04:46 PM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Don't forget to include the Taliban who kill a lot more and don't bother with 'sorry', going straight to bragging about their atrocities.

When the Taliban use AC-130 gunships to level villages from 5000 feet, then you can complain about their tactics.

By far the most lethal killer of civilians in Afghanistan is the Army of Christ, a.k.a the US military.


From: At the Delta of the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
jester
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posted 08 September 2008 06:35 PM      Profile for jester        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Jingles:

When the Taliban use AC-130 gunships to level villages from 5000 feet, then you can complain about their tactics.

By far the most lethal killer of civilians in Afghanistan is the Army of Christ, a.k.a the US military.


I'll complain at my discretion, not yours, thank you. The most lethal killer of civilians in Afghanistan may well be the USA but if they are,the Taliban are right behind them.

Why is it that deaths and injuries, especially women and children caused by the US and its NATO allies stir a great outcry from the faithful but far greater deaths and injuries caused by indiscriminate suicide bombers are ignored?

What about all the civilians killed by the Taliban in Pakistan?

Do children maimed by insurgents not rate compassion? What about the civilian Afghans who are murdered for teaching school or providing health services? Not a word about them.


From: Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 08 September 2008 07:04 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by jester:

Why is it that deaths and injuries, especially women and children caused by the US and its NATO allies stir a great outcry from the faithful but far greater deaths and injuries caused by indiscriminate suicide bombers are ignored?

a) Because you have no clue about the numbers and are making them up based on half-heard lies from invaders; b) because the Afghan people have the right to settle their scores and determine their mode of government domestically without your favourite foreign armies' kind assistance.

quote:
What about all the civilians killed by the Taliban in Pakistan?

None of your business. Pakistan is in charge of Pakistan. It's a tough concept, I know, but persistent reflection may allow some light to be shed on those dark areas of the brain.

quote:
Do children maimed by insurgents not rate compassion?

Indeed, but not armed intervention. Facts show that children were not being maimed by insurgents before the foreigners invaded.

quote:
What about the civilian Afghans who are murdered for teaching school or providing health services? Not a word about them.

1) You made that up. 2) If you didn't, it's none of your business. I know your sense of morality and education and health is far superior to that of the Afghans, but they're the ones you'll have to convince. It's their country.


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al-Qa'bong
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posted 08 September 2008 07:27 PM      Profile for al-Qa'bong   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You know "The Mission" is in trouble when even The Economist becomes critical:

quote:
IF AMERICA fails in Afghanistan, as it might, it will be remembered there for killing children. On August 26th the UN claimed to have “convincing evidence” that an American airstrike in western Herat province had killed 90 civilians, including 60 children.

That would make it probably the most bloody of America’s many murderous airstrikes during its seven-year campaign in Afghanistan. But American officials insisted that only five civilians had died, along with 25 militants.

...Afghans are understandably enraged—which is excellent news for the Taliban. To deflect blame for the latest alleged atrocity, on August 25th several Afghan ministers called for a ban on airstrikes.

Hamid Karzai, the president, who has many times pleaded with America to take more care to avoid killing Afghan civilians, wants its troops to be made accountable for any errors they may make.



From: Saskatchistan | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
jester
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posted 08 September 2008 07:53 PM      Profile for jester        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:

1) You made that up. 2) If you didn't, it's none of your business. I know your sense of morality and education and health is far superior to that of the Afghans, but they're the ones you'll have to convince. It's their country.


Ah. Killing children is ok in one's own country as long as its not the 'invaders' doing it.

So,everything the Taliban says is gospel and everything contrary to the Taliban position is 'made up'.

Do you get your instructions from the Mullahs or the ISI?


From: Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
jester
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posted 08 September 2008 08:05 PM      Profile for jester        Edit/Delete Post
Crazy George isn't done yet.

quote:
"In November, a Marine battalion that was scheduled to deploy to Iraq will instead deploy to Afghanistan," according to the speech text. "It will be followed in January by an Army combat brigade."


Thats 5,000 more troops. Crazy George says he'll leave the rest to the next pres. Maybe they can take over in Kandahar.


From: Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 08 September 2008 09:29 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by jester:
Ah. Killing children is ok in one's own country as long as its not the 'invaders' doing it.

No it's not "ok". But if you invade and start shooting people in response, it's "ok" for the locals to deal with you in impolite manner. Do you get that distinction?

quote:
So,everything the Taliban says is gospel and everything contrary to the Taliban position is 'made up'.

No, I go by reports of U.N. and Afghan officials - you know, the kind your U.S. sources routinely deny until caught with their pants down? I don't pay attention to Taliban claims, and in fact we rarely see any in the media.

quote:
Do you get your instructions from the Mullahs or the ISI?

You ask questions like someone who knows all about getting instructions. I actually think freely. I don't get easily blackmailed by sob stories about women, children, incubators, WMD, Saddam torture chambers, and all the other pretexts loved by you and those like you for aggression. I can see through that, because I pay attention to history. Try it sometime. It's refreshing.


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Webgear
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posted 08 September 2008 09:33 PM      Profile for Webgear     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:

I don't pay attention to Taliban claims, and in fact we rarely see any in the media.


Have you ever tried looking? There are plenty of sites hosting Taliban views and claims.

[ 08 September 2008: Message edited by: Webgear ]


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unionist
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posted 08 September 2008 09:44 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Webgear:

Have you ever tried looking? There are plenty of sites hosting Taliban views and claims.


No - why should I? The independent reports, and those of U.N. and Afghan officials, plus various NGOs, are sufficient to illustrate the bloodthirsty criminal behaviour of the U.S. and its allies. If you are aware of Taliban stats about murder of civilians, feel free to post them. They can't possibly look worse than what we already see.


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Boom Boom
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posted 10 September 2008 06:54 AM      Profile for Boom Boom     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Speaking of the Taliban: Party leaders blast Taliban remarks on Canadian election

excerpt:

The Taliban spokesman said earlier that Canada has come under U.S. influence.

"Our message to the Canadian leaders, the Canadian people, the Canadian government and all the Canadians is that they should not send their sons to Afghanistan, where they will die for the benefit of the Americans," Qari Muhammad Yussef told CBC News in Kandahar.

If Canadian forces do not withdraw, he said, "Afghanistan will be a graveyard for them — as it was for them in the past."

Yussef said he's familiar with Harper but isn't sure about the other candidates or parties running in the election.

ETA: oops, I didn't see this other thread, where this is already being discussed: The Election and Afghanistan .

[ 10 September 2008: Message edited by: Boom Boom ]


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jester
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posted 10 September 2008 08:05 AM      Profile for jester        Edit/Delete Post
Harper Ups the Ante

quote:
Conservative Leader Stephen Harper is vowing his government would completely withdraw Canadian troops from Afghanistan in 2011 -- a promise that goes beyond a Parliamentary motion this year which merely committed to pull soldiers out of Kandahar province.

Military analysts have warned it's a bad idea strategically to set a definite end date for withdrawing from Afghanistan but Mr. Harper says he thinks even the Canadian military wants to quit the country in 2011.

The statement is a change for Mr. Harper, who had acknowledged in April that it was possible down the road that Canada's NATO allies might ask Ottawa to extend its Afghan commitment beyond 2011.

The March 13 2008 resolution, backed by both the Conservatives and Liberals, said: “The government of Canada notify NATO that Canada will end its presence in Kandahar as of July 2011, add, as of that date, the redeployment of Canadian Forces troops out of Kandahar and their replacement by Afghan forces start as soon as possible, so that it will have been completed by December 2011.”


Good. The next step is to reduce exposure to Canadian troops by having them mentor Afghan forces and provide force protection only. Let crazy George clean up his own mess.


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Jerry West
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posted 11 September 2008 03:20 PM      Profile for Jerry West   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Murder in Afghanistan
From: Gold River, BC | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 11 September 2008 03:23 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Good story, Jerry. Now the only thing is to figure out how to implement your last sentence.
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Jingles
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posted 12 September 2008 09:18 AM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
George's secret order.

quote:
A secret order issued by George Bush giving US special forces carte blanche to mount counter-terrorist operations inside Pakistani territory raised fears last night that escalating conflict was spreading from Afghanistan to Pakistan and could ignite a region-wide war.

quote:
The move is regarded as unprecedented in terms of sending troops into a friendly, allied country.

It's like the US Cavalry crossing into Saskatchewan and Alberta to hunt down Sitting Bull.

Don't worry though. Next, we'll go with the Americans into Pakistan to make sure little girls can go to school. If they don't want to go, we'll kill them.


From: At the Delta of the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 12 September 2008 10:19 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Thanks for the link, Jingles. I've posted a reference to it also in this thread.
From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 12 September 2008 11:39 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
9-11 and the "American Inquisition"

quote:
Anybody who doubts the legitimacy of the American inquisition (9/11 and the "Global War on Terrorism") is a heretic conspiracy theorist or an accomplice of the terrorists.

The American Inquisition is part of a Bipartisan Consensus. Both the Democrats and the Republicans support the American Inquisition. . .

How to reverse the tide?

Undermine the Inquisition;
Reveal the lies behind 9/11;
Break the consensus;
Reveal the Crimes committed by those in High Office;
Unseat the inquisitors:


I agree with this. And I tend to fear people like Donald Rumsfeld who said several months ago, in so many words, that the "correction" for lowered American fears of another 9-11 style attack would be another attack. Rule by fear mongering to justify extorting hundreds of billions of dollars from taxpayers on an annual basis was their way during the cold war, and it continues unabated, and it has to stop.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Jerry West
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posted 12 September 2008 12:46 PM      Profile for Jerry West   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Worth a read:

Danger In South Asia


From: Gold River, BC | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 14 September 2008 07:45 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
They call them the Bandi Guantanamo, the Guantanamo returnees, and their welcome home is far from warm. All across Afghanistan in recent months, scores of men have been coming back from a long journey halfway around the world. About 100 have been released from Guantanamo Bay by the United States authorities in the last 12 months as Washington, under mounting pressure from governments around the world, attempts to moderate the damage done to America's image by the Cuba-based detention centre.

After more than five years in detention thousands of miles away, often traumatised, often angry, or just broken and poor, the Bandi Guantanamo try to build new lives, with limited success. Most claim innocence. Others are unashamed of their acts of violence. Interviewed in Kabul last month, Mohammed Umar described how he had been trained in terrorist techniques, met Osama bin Laden and fought at the battle of Tora Bora in 2001. Released 10 weeks ago, he spoke of how angry the presence of his former jailers in his homeland made him. "If they have come here to help us, why do they kill civilians and why can't they even provide electricity to Kabul seven years after invading?" asked the 30-year-old former footballer, arrested in Pakistan during the closing days of the war of 2001.

Almost all the former detainees describe mistreatment - ranging from waterboarding - the repeated half-drowning of prisoners to get them to talk - through to beatings, sleep deprivation, being kept in 'stress positions' and exposure to extreme temperatures for long periods. Most say that the worst abuse occurred in the US bases in Afghanistan, notably in the eastern and southern cities of Jalalabad and Kandahar, or at the logistics centre of Bagram airfield, where a 500-capacity makeshift prison was built. American military spokesmen in Afghanistan deny any mistreatment. - The Post (Pakistan)



From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Webgear
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posted 14 September 2008 07:58 PM      Profile for Webgear     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Suicide bomber kills 3 UN workers in Afghanistan

SPIN BOLDAK, Afghanistan -- A suicide bomber in a vehicle attacked a convoy carrying Afghan doctors working for the United Nations in southern Afghanistan, killing two doctors and their driver and wounding 15 others.

The Taliban claimed responsibility.....

The two doctors were under contract to the UN World Health Organization, combatting polio in Afghanistan, said Adrian Edwards, the chief UN spokesman in the country.

The driver also worked for the UN mission. All three were Afghan nationals, Edwards said.

The attack happened in the Spin Boldak district of Kandahar province as the convoy was on its way to vaccinate people, said provincial Police Chief Matiullah Khan.

The blast also wounded 15 other people, including 10 civilians and five Afghan guards protecting the convoy, Khan said. The bomber also died in the blast.

Khan said the doctors were travelling in clearly marked UN vehicles.


From: Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 14 September 2008 08:04 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Webgear:
Suicide bomber kills 3 UN workers in Afghanistan

The U.S., Canada, all of NATO, and the so-called government of Afghanistan are increasingly incapable of providing elementary security to even humanitarian workers.

Time for them all to step aside and let someone else do the job.

Thanks for the item confirming that point, Webgear.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Webgear
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posted 14 September 2008 08:13 PM      Profile for Webgear     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You are correct, the UN is not able to provide security to its own mandate, we should increase our forces in Afghanistan especially southern Afghanistan.

How would you prevent suicide attacks?

What ratio of soldiers to Humanitarian workers would you like? I believe Dawn Black and the NDP will be calling for more soldiers to protect aid workers.

(note this is all sarcasm)


From: Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 14 September 2008 08:20 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Layton warns Canadians: Don’t trust Harper

quote:
“I think Canadians should be very concerned that Mr. Harper would be choosing an election time to be making such a commitment,” Layton said.

“Can we really trust Stephen Harper when it comes to bringing an end to the conflict and now suddenly becoming a champion of peace?

This is a prime minister who wanted us to follow George Bush into Iraq. I don’t believe he can be trusted and I don’t think that Canadians will be fooled,” he said.

Layton promised voters yesterday that, should he become prime minister, the NDP would immediately meet with Canadian Forces commanders and develop a plan to pull Canadian troops out of Afghanistan.



From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Webgear
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posted 14 September 2008 08:26 PM      Profile for Webgear     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Fidel:
Layton promised voters yesterday that, should he become prime minister, the NDP would immediately meet with Canadian Forces commanders and develop a plan to pull Canadian troops out of Afghanistan.

That does not sound like an immediate withdrawal, sort of sounds like a slow and steady pull out.


From: Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Webgear
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posted 14 September 2008 08:30 PM      Profile for Webgear     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Canadian soldier killed by insurgents, not friendly fire

Military investigators say Saskatchewan-born Cpl. Josh Roberts died in Afghanistan from insurgent fire, not by stray bullets fired from a passing convoy of private security personnel.

Based on the physical evidence, witness interviews and analysis by the Military Police investigators, the investigation concluded that his death was inflicted by the insurgents," the Canadian Forces National Investigation Service (CFNIS) said in a press release Saturday.


From: Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Jingles
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posted 14 September 2008 08:32 PM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It sounds like an abdication of authority.

The Prime Minister says "out of Afghanistan now", and the military says "Yes Sir". End of story.
The Military answers to the civilian government, not the other way around. Layton had better get his shit squared away.

If he's gonna Obama himself, he's no better than a Dion.


From: At the Delta of the Alpha and the Omega | Registered: Nov 2002  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 14 September 2008 08:36 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Webgear:

That does not sound like an immediate withdrawal, sort of sounds like a slow and steady pull out.


Apparently the Soviets began to consider pulling out in 1985 and actually did so between 1987 and 1989. But they had a lot more troops in the Stan than NATO countries do today. I imagine 2500 Canadians troops could be pulled out in pretty good time.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Webgear
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posted 14 September 2008 08:40 PM      Profile for Webgear     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Jingles:
It sounds like an abdication of authority.

The Prime Minister says "out of Afghanistan now", and the military says "Yes Sir". End of story.
The Military answers to the civilian government, not the other way around. Layton had better get his shit squared away.

If he's gonna Obama himself, he's no better than a Dion.


Obama and Jack are now buddies, if both Obama and Jack wins the election, we both know the troops are staying or at the very least withdrawn at a very slow timeframe.


From: Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Webgear
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posted 14 September 2008 08:42 PM      Profile for Webgear     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Fidel:

Apparently the Soviets began to consider pulling out in 1985 and actually did so between 1987 and 1989. But they had a lot more troops in the Stan than NATO countries do today. I imagine 2500 Canadians troops could be pulled out in pretty good time.


How many days/months do you think it would take to remove 2500-3000 soldiers and thier equipment?


From: Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 14 September 2008 08:47 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Webgear:

Obama and Jack are now buddies, if both Obama and Jack wins the election, we both know the troops are staying or at the very least withdrawn at a very slow timeframe.


Obama understands full well his role in the American empire project. Obama is another third rate Liberal Democrat, like Steve Dion is waiting in the wings for a call from the plutocracy that won't come. The two party system there is pretty much duplicated here and just scaled down somewhat. It's as much a charade here as there.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Webgear
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posted 14 September 2008 08:50 PM      Profile for Webgear     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I hope the NDP wins the election nect month, this way we can see what Jack's plan really is.

Fidel... I bet you a beer that everything I have stated over the last few months is correct.


From: Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 14 September 2008 08:50 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Webgear:
How many days/months do you think it would take to remove 2500-3000 soldiers and thier equipment?
I don't exactly know, but I'm willing to find out.

From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Webgear
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posted 14 September 2008 08:59 PM      Profile for Webgear     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by M. Spector:
I don't exactly know, but I'm willing to find out.

Take an educated guess?


From: Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 14 September 2008 09:00 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Webgear:
I hope the NDP wins the election nect month, this way we can see what Jack's plan really is.

Pullout. The NDP will be pressing for this win-win strategy until Crazy Jorge's misguided occupation finally does come to an end.

quote:
Fidel... I bet you a beer that everything I have stated over the last few months is correct.

You're on


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 14 September 2008 09:02 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Webgear:

Take an educated guess?


Not two years.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Webgear
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posted 14 September 2008 09:07 PM      Profile for Webgear     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
3,6 or 9 months?
From: Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 14 September 2008 09:09 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Webgear:
Take an educated guess?
I'd prefer to rely on empirical evidence.

From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Jerry West
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posted 14 September 2008 09:11 PM      Profile for Jerry West   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

Webgear:
That does not sound like an immediate withdrawal, sort of sounds like a slow and steady pull out.

quote:

Jingles:
It sounds like an abdication of authority.

The Prime Minister says "out of Afghanistan now", and the military says "Yes Sir". End of story.
The Military answers to the civilian government, not the other way around. Layton had better get his shit squared away.


It sounds like a rational plan.

From the statement there is no indication of how long the pullout process would take, and whether it amounts to immediate or not may depend on one's definition of immediate.

Any Prime Minister, President, King or other leader who does not discuss plans with her/his commanders prior to committing to them is a fool, and moving 2000 plus troops and their equipment safely from an active combat zone safely requires considerable planning.


From: Gold River, BC | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jerry West
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posted 15 September 2008 12:35 AM      Profile for Jerry West   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

GENEVA — One of the most experienced Western envoys in Afghanistan said Sunday that conditions there had become the worst since 2001....

Link to Article in the NYT



From: Gold River, BC | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
contrarianna
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posted 17 September 2008 08:26 AM      Profile for contrarianna     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The following article undercuts the 2 main propaganda deceptions of the US-Canada-NATO military occupation of Afghanistan.

First, it cuts through the rhetoric about fighting some international ideology of "islamofascism" with a "war on terror" in Afghanistan "so we don't have to fight them over here".

The second big lie exposed is that we are killing and dying for some notion of "the Afghani people".

quote:

New breed of Taliban replaces old guard Money and a hatred of foreigners are motivating a new generation of Afghan fighters.
By Alex Thomson
The Telegraph
Last Updated: 1:24AM BST 17 Sep 2008
.;..
And that is the second, timeless motive. Talk to them about fighting the British and they don't do "war on terror". Instead, they left the compound to visit a nearby graveyard, a resting place for Afghans who fought against the British over a century ago. Haji said: "People want to defend their independence, Islam and Afghan national pride. That's why they come and support the Taliban."

They were nonplussed that President Karzai says it is "un-Afghan" to attack Nato troops. And they have no lack of support.
....

During the visit, the fighters talked more like old-time Mujahideen, discussing the Russian invaders, than the unsmiling students of Mullah Omar.

By night they liked nothing more than a drop (or three) of whisky - though did not drink in front of a camera.
....
In all of this, an urgent lesson for Nato: these local, Afghan fighters enjoy real support. It is simply wrong to say it is just coercion and terror. Just like the Mujahideen did. Indeed, on this evidence the so-called Taliban might be changing into something far more like the Mujahideen than the madrassa-produced Pakistani Taliban.

Have Nato allowed themselves to become the new Russians? Many an Afghan would say yes.


The Telegraph--UK

From: here to inanity | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 18 September 2008 10:09 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
The Bush administration is pushing for sweeping changes to the military command structure in Afghanistan, so that the head of international forces would report directly to US Central Command instead of Nato.

The changes would have huge repercussions for Nato, whose officials have stated that Afghanistan is a "defining moment" for the organisation's ability to conduct large-scale operations abroad.

The Independent has learnt that the proposal to streamline the complex chain of command, enabling US General David McKiernan to be answerable to superiors at Centcom in Tampa, Florida, rather than Nato, is before Robert Gates, the American Defence Secretary....

Any move to make the Afghan war an American-run operation would be controversial in some Nato countries. There is already public disquiet in countries such as Italy, Germany and Canada over the conflict.



From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Jerry West
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posted 18 September 2008 06:11 PM      Profile for Jerry West   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

This summer, foreign troop deaths have exceeded those of U.S. forces in Iraq. 'We feel that things are going very, very well for us,' one Taliban fighter says.

By Laura King, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

September 18, 2008

KANDAHAR, AFGHANISTAN -- A summer of heavy fighting during which Western military leaders had hoped to seize the initiative from Islamic militants has instead revealed an insurgency capable of employing complex new tactics and fighting across a broad swath of Afghanistan.

Over the last three months, insurgents have exacted the most punishing casualty tolls on Western forces since the Afghan war began nearly seven years ago. Numbers of foreign troops killed have exceeded U.S. military deaths in Iraq....

Insurgents in Afghanistan Show Strength



From: Gold River, BC | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 18 September 2008 07:53 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Canadian soldiers involved in the shooting deaths of two Afghan children near Kandahar in July did nothing wrong and followed proper procedures in the incident, a military police investigation has found.

The children were travelling in a vehicle in Panjwaii district that approached a Canadian patrol and ignored repeated warnings to stop, a statement from the Canadian military said.

One round from a 25mm cannon was fired into the vehicle, killing the two youngsters.

The military statement said soldiers in the convoy "followed proper escalation of force procedures and acted within the rules of engagement" for the Canadian mission.

- CBC

[ 18 September 2008: Message edited by: M. Spector ]


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
martin dufresne
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posted 18 September 2008 09:17 PM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Interesting piece from Alain Gresh in the latest issue of Le Monde diplomatique, arguably France's most credible Left newspaper:Pourquoi l'armée française doit se retirer de l'Afghanistan
Reading how Gresh takes apart President Sarkozy's justifications for collaborating in this war of agression is definitely worth brushing up on your French...
quote:
Le Parlement et le Sénat français doivent débattre, le lundi 22 septembre, de la situation en Afghanistan. Ils auront à se prononcer par un vote nominatif sur l’engagement de la France dans une guerre qui risque d’être longue et coûteuse. Il aurait été important que les chambres puissent examiner les arguments avancés et en mesurer la pertinence. Mais le temps de parole a été limité et le débat sera clos en une demi-journée. Est-ce ainsi que l’on débat de l’engagement de la France dans une guerre qui fera encore de nombreuses victimes, d’abord en Afghanistan mais aussi dans les rangs de l’armée ?

Lors de son allocution devant les ambassadeurs français, à la fin août (et après la mort de dix soldats), le président Nicolas Sarkozy avait expliqué les raisons de la présence française. Il reprenait les arguments déjà développés lors de l’annonce de sa décision d’envoyer des troupes supplémentaires en Afghanistan (sommet de l’OTAN, Bucarest, avril 2008).

Nous pouvons les résumer ainsi :

- La France participe à une action collective approuvée par l’ONU ; elle doit être aux côtés de ses alliés de l’OTAN ;

- nous devons aider le peuple afghan dont le sort s’est amélioré à éviter le retour d’un régime barbare ;

- nous luttons là-bas contre le terrorisme international, pour protéger les Français de la menace directe du terrorisme.

Examinons un à un chacun de ces arguments :

- La présence militaire étrangère en Afghanistan a deux composantes : la force internationale d’assistance à la sécurité, ou International Security and Assistance Force (ISAF), opère en Afghanistan sous l’égide de l’OTAN (environ 50 000 hommes de 37 pays) ; elle est mandatée par les Nations unies ; et des forces pour l’essentiel américaines (18 000 sur un total de 36 000 soldats américains) déployées dans le cadre de l’opération Liberté immuable, dont l’état-major est sur la base de Bagram, et qui en réfèrent directement au Central Command américain. Au total, les Etats-Unis fournissent environ 75% des troupes étrangères présentes dans ce pays.

De quel poids, dans ces conditions, pèse la présence française ? Quand le président Bush décide, en 2003, d’envahir l’Irak et de diminuer le nombre de soldats américains en Afghanistan, qui consulte-t-il ? Quand il donne le feu vert aux forces terrestres américaines pour mener des incursions au Pakistan, en informe-t-il la France ? Quand les bombardiers de l’opération Liberté immuable ou de l’ISAF mènent des raids qui font des dizaines de morts civils, consultent-ils la France ? Qui peut croire un instant que la stratégie de Washington dépend, même dans une mesure limitée, des avis de la France ?

L’armée française doit se retirer parce que la France ne peut peser sur le cours des événements. Et que le mandat de l’ONU pour l’ISAF n’a, en réalité, aucune signification concrète, les Etats-Unis décidant seuls...

- La situation du peuple afghan, depuis des décennies, est terrible. Il a vécu, depuis la fin des années 1970, la guerre soviétique, les affrontements entre les différentes fractions de moudjahidin après la chute du régime communiste, la prise de pouvoir des talibans en 1996 ; et enfin la guerre menée par les Etats-Unis après le 11-Septembe, guerre qui se poursuit et s’intensifie.

La fin du régime des talibans a été incontestablement positive, même si la population les avait bien accueillis à leur arrivée au pouvoir : ils avaient mis un terme à l’anarchie et à l’insécurité provoquée par les combats entre les différentes organisations de moudjahidin.

Nicolas Sarkozy explique : « Mesurons les progrès accomplis : des institutions démocratiques avec de nouvelles élections en 2009/2010 ; la scolarisation de près de 6 millions d’enfants contre 800 000 en 2001 ; un système de santé qui a permis de réduire la mortalité infantile d’un quart : ce sont 40 000 enfants sauvés chaque année ; dans tous les domaines, un progrès sans précédent de l’égalité entre hommes et femmes ; des infrastructures restaurées ; 4 000 kilomètres de routes construites… Qui croira que tout ceci aurait été possible sans notre présence militaire ? »

Ces chiffres sont tirés d’un rapport publié à l’occasion de la conférence internationale de soutien à l’Afghanistan (Paris, 12 juin), Report on the Implementation of the Afghanistan Compact by the joint coordination and monitoring board (JCMB) co-chairs.

Ils appellent une remarque générale sur leur fiabilité. A-t-on vraiment les données sur ce qui se passe dans un pays qui, pour l’essentiel, échappe à l’autorité centrale ? Qui peut croire un instant que le pourcentage de femmes recevant des soins prénataux est de 73% ? Si la mortalité infantile a diminué d’une manière qui a permis de sauver 40 000 vies humaines par an, comment expliquer que les chiffres de l’OMS disent que le taux de mortalité des enfants avant cinq ans est resté stationnaire entre 2000 et 2005 ?

Parlons du droit des femmes. « Un progrès sans précédent de l’égalité entre hommes et femmes » ? Si on compare quelle situation à quelle situation ? Quelle époque ? Dans quels lieux ? Rappelons que l’époque où les femmes ont disposé du plus de droits, à Kaboul au moins, a été la période communiste. L’Occident n’a-t-il pourtant pas préféré aider les moudjahidins ? De son côté, George Marchais, secrétaire général du PC, justifiait l’intervention soviétique en Afghanistan au nom de la lutte contre « le droit de cuissage ».

Il est incontestable que, du point de vue juridique, la situation des femmes afghanes est meilleure aujourd’hui que sous les talibans. Au moins, elles ne sont pas exclues des écoles. Mais ce gouvernement soutenu par l’OTAN garde en prison des femmes « coupables » d’avoir été violées.

Un rapport de la commission afghane indépendante des droits de la personne rapporte que le nombre de femmes qui tentent de mettre fin à leurs jours en s’immolant est en augmentation rapide (« Afghanistan : Self-immolation on the rise among women ») : au moins 184 cas en 2007 contre 106 en 2006, et le nombre devrait augmenter encore en 2008.

Un autre rapport du ministère des affaires féminines, « Women in Afghanistan : Deprived of basic necessities », explique que le niveau de la violence contre les femmes en Afghanistan est le plus élevé du monde. Et que 57% des filles sont mariées avant l’âge légal.

On pourrait multiplier les exemples... Tirons-en trois leçons :

1) Dans un pays en guerre, les femmes sont une cible particulièrement vulnérable. Jamais la guerre n’a apporté des droits supplémentaires aux femmes ;

2) Malgré les lois adoptées sous pression internationale, le gouvernement réel est aux mains de chefs de guerre qui ont peu de respect pour les droits des femmes, parfois aussi peu que les talibans ;

3) Faire évoluer une société ne dépend pas seulement des lois. La société afghane est particulièrement conservatrice. Faire avancer les droits des femmes ne peut se faire de l’étranger.(...)


[ 18 September 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]


From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 19 September 2008 01:57 AM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
From a discussion board on Russia, a comparison between the development of the Afghan military in the Soviet era versus the development of the Afghan military in the NATO era shows some interesting data ...

quote:
Kabulov (Russia's top diplomat in Kabul is Zamir Kabulov) is right, NATO did very little to build up Afghan military forces. Just a little example: during the Soviet engagement there Afghanistan boasted a powerful air force. All pilots were Afghanis. At its best times it was manned by about 7,000 Afghanis and 5,000 foreign instructors and included:

3 Interceptor squadrons (around 40 MiG-21)
4 Fighter-bomber squadrons (around 50 MiG-17)
3 Bomber squadrons (around 20 Il-28)
Transports (around 15 An-26)
Helicopters (around 30 Mi-24, Mi-8, and Mi-4)

In 1988 the first Afghani, an Afghan Air Force pilot, participated in the Soviet space mission. Of course, that flight was a part of a propaganda campaign. But at least it was something.

What did NATO do? I keep seeing bearded militiamen in colorful clothes on CNN when they report on Afghan military. And that's it???


More from Kabulov:

quote:
“If the things were going on as it is, it will be first and foremost a complete defeat, military and political and when this will happen is only a question of time,” Zamir Kabulov concluded. In view of this, Kabulov urged NATO to change its tactics and strategy in Afghanistan. “The NATO military presence (in Afghanistan) could be increased further but the move will not solve the problem. Afghanistan’s human resources combined with those in Pakistan, especially in tribal zones where Taliban operates freely now are many times more than the capabilities of NATO countries joined together,” the Russian ambassador said.

He believes that the only solution for NATO is the formation of really efficient Afghan army and police, which is achievable. “The US treasury has to spend on an American soldier more money than an Afghan company. This correlation should be changed and money should be directed to Afghanistan. This is affordable for Americans and NATO,” Zamir Kabulov said.


Kabulov urges NATO to change its tactics.

His advice is falling upon deaf ears.

[ 19 September 2008: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 19 September 2008 02:21 AM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Australian troops shoot dead Afghan Governor.

That's not going to "win hearts and minds" !!!!!!!!

Afghan Governor killed in shootout involving Australian troops.

quote:
Australian troops from NATO's International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) may have accidentally shot dead an Afghan district governor on September 17, the Bahtar news agency said on Friday.

The agency said that Rozi Khan, the governor of the Chora district in southern Afghanistan's province of Uruzgan, was killed during a shootout involving Australian troops in the region. The firefight happened near the Australian Defense Force (ADF) base.


Rozi Khan was also a former police chief. I guess this killing by the Auz military isn't going to help develop the Afghan police either?

And it's 5,6,7,8,
what are we fighting for?
Don't ask me
I don't give a damn
next stop is Viet Nam ...

[ 19 September 2008: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]


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unionist
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posted 19 September 2008 04:44 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
LOL, good post Beltov.

But do the math:

There are 34 provinces in Afghanistan. That makes 34 corrupt, murdering, thieving, traitorous governors kept in power solely thanks to foreign "help".

One governor killed by friendly fire is only 2.9%.

I'd call that an acceptable margin of collateral damage, compared to the overall benefit.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 19 September 2008 05:02 AM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
There ought to be a "tongue-in-cheek" smiley. I had to read your post a couple of times before I was able to figure it out. Damn I'm dumb. Or tired.
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unionist
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posted 19 September 2008 05:14 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sorry 'bout that, Beltov. Believe it or not, I was actually looking around for a fitting emoticon to tack on, but then just posted as is.
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M. Spector
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posted 19 September 2008 07:03 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by N.Beltov:
His advice is falling upon deaf ears.
And thank the FSM for that!

The last thing we need is a powerful and efficient Afghan army, air force, and police under the direction of the puppet Karzai government.


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 19 September 2008 10:36 AM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
My point was that NATO is failing miserably in its stated goals. OTOH, NATO is wildly successful in killing Afghan civilians, blowing wedding parties and blushing brides into body parts, restoring Afghanistan to its "rightful" place as the biggest exporter of opiates and/or heroin on Planet Earth, and so on. Let freedom reign! NOT.
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unionist
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posted 19 September 2008 07:50 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Canadian heroes murder another Afghan civilian

quote:
A male passenger in an Afghan vehicle died after Canadian soldiers fired on a civilian truck that was driving toward their military convoy Thursday evening.

The soldiers were travelling through Kandahar City at about 8:30 p.m. when the transport truck loaded with fruit approached their convoy, said military officials.

Soldiers in the convoy, fearing a suicide attack, tried repeatedly to get the driver to turn away before eventually firing a warning shot, said officials.

"Neither the warning signals nor the warning shot were heeded," said military spokesman Lt. Alain Blondin.

The soldiers then fired two additional shots from the turret cannon on a light-armoured vehicle, stopping the truck, and a subsequent investigation revealed one of the occupants was killed.

The soldiers had followed proper escalation of force procedures, said Blondin.


"Not guilty", says the spokesperson for the murderers.


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M. Spector
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posted 19 September 2008 08:23 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Interesting military blog on "escalation of force" procedures
From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Webgear
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posted 20 September 2008 06:27 AM      Profile for Webgear     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
French soldiers unprepared for Taliban ambush: report

The French did not have enough bullets, radios and other equipment, the report said. The troops were forced to abandon a counterattack when the weapons on their vehicles ran out of ammunition only 90 minutes into a battle that stretched over two days.

One French platoon had only a single radio and it was quickly disabled, leaving them unable to call for help.

Chillingly, in an indication that the French troopers may have been at the mercy of their attackers, the dead soldiers from that platoon “showed signs of being killed at close range,” the report said.

[ 20 September 2008: Message edited by: Webgear ]


From: Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Polunatic2
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posted 20 September 2008 06:40 AM      Profile for Polunatic2   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Who knew that Canada had it's own Christopher Hitchens?
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Jingles
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posted 20 September 2008 06:54 AM      Profile for Jingles     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
While praising the performance of U.S. and French troops under the onslaught, the report singled out the Afghan soldiers for criticism.

Of course you gotta praise the NATO troops. Never, ever criticize the performance of the godly troops. Kevlar body armour makes soldiers immune to criticism.

quote:
“The ANA performed very poorly,” the report said. “The ANA force spent much of the time lounging on the battlefield. When they finally dispersed, most left their military equipment [including] weapons ID cards, and other items for the enemy.”

My word, it's so hard to find good help these days. If they aren't stealing your silverwear, they're abandoning your Crusader occupation forces to slaughter by their countrymen. You just can't trust your hired people anymore.


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Webgear
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posted 20 September 2008 07:04 AM      Profile for Webgear     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Jingles:

My word, it's so hard to find good help these days. If they aren't stealing your silverwear, they're abandoning your Crusader occupation forces to slaughter by their countrymen. You just can't trust your hired people anymore.

That is the truth.


From: Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 20 September 2008 07:11 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Or at least, the ironic version of the truth.
From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
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posted 20 September 2008 09:21 AM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
A small point, except maybe it's not that small, from the blog "Torch" linked to above by M Spector...

quote:
Doug Beazley of the Sun Media group noted these signs last year, but wasn't optimistic about their use:


On the back of their armoured RG 31 vehicle hung a sign painted in bright red Arabic characters. "What does it mean?" I asked.

"It says 'Keep back 50 feet from vehicle,'" said Adams. "Which is kinda stupid, 'cause from 50 feet back you can't read the sign.

"And if you get close enough to read it, chances are we're already shooting at you."


The signs are in Arabic. It's also noted later in the piece that most Afghans speak either Pashto or Dari, with a handful of other languages being less common.

Arabic is not a language spoken in the country. Anyone who seriously studies the Koran will have some exposure to the language, but that's like expecting me to be able to be conversant in Latin because I used to be an alter boy.


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Webgear
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posted 20 September 2008 10:21 AM      Profile for Webgear     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oldgoat

I am pretty sure that Doug Beazley is wrong in saying those signs are in Arabic.

(Another journalist that does not know what he/she is talking about, maybe a topic for another thread)

I am about 90% sure that those signs are in written in Pasthun.

Pashto


From: Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 20 September 2008 10:34 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I must admit it does look like Pashto.

But then, like half of the men in Afghanistan, I am illiterate in Pashto.


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Webgear
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posted 20 September 2008 10:38 AM      Profile for Webgear     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
That is why the ISAF also does education, shuras and radio programs.
From: Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 20 September 2008 10:43 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by oldgoat:
The signs are in Arabic.

They're in Arabic characters. Many Muslim countries used, or still use, Arabic script for their languages, even though the language may have no common origin whatsoever with Arabic. Examples: Ottoman Turkish, Urdu (Pakistan), and of course the various Afghan languages.

So Beazley isn't wrong.


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Fidel
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posted 20 September 2008 11:53 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Saudi influence in Afghanistan? No way?
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 20 September 2008 11:56 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Fidel:
Saudi influence in Afghanistan?

The only Saudi influence in Afghanistan is via their close ally - the United States.

As for Al Qaeda, when was the last year anyone heard that name in connection with the Afghan insurgency? There used to be a "babbler" who insisted that the Canadian "mission" was against Al Qaeda, but he's mercifully no longer around.


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Jerry West
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posted 20 September 2008 12:04 PM      Profile for Jerry West   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:

Taliban win over locals at the gates of Kabul

While clashes in remote Helmand dominate the headlines, another battle is being waged by the insurgents on Kabul's doorstep. There, the Taliban are winning support by building a parallel administration, which is more effective, more popular and more brutal than the government's....

Link to Article



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M. Spector
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posted 20 September 2008 12:12 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Most of [Wardak] province's 800,000 inhabitants, mainly peasants, go to the insurgents for rough but often effective justice.

"I can't blame them," Ishaqzai [a government judge in Wardak] said. "A court case in the government system takes five years and many bribes. The Taliban will settle it in an afternoon."




From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 20 September 2008 12:16 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This article was linked to and discussed here on August 24. Still an important article, though.

Why don't you spend all your time here like we do, Jerry? Seriously though, your knowledge of the subject is always helpful.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 20 September 2008 01:32 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:

The only Saudi influence in Afghanistan is via their close ally - the United States


Yes-yes! The Talibanization of Pakistan & Afghanistan

quote:
I think we deliberately got rid of the moderate elements which could have been powerful during the Soviet invasion. We removed them from the scene, and I think the CIA also went along in that. I think there were many right-wing activists in the United States who encouraged Pakistan to go that way. But what happened in the process was that as our youth went into Afghanistan to get training, they became a certain kind of Muslims. In Afghanistan, the predominant school of thought is what is called Deobandi, which is a puritanical kind of Islam. And the Barelvis, who are a majority in Pakistan, could not go there because there was no tolerance for Lower Church in Afghanistan. And that started the conflict.

Afghanistan is unlucky in the sense that the "Taliban Islam" they got was not really their Islam. Now that Karzai is in power, he has suspended all the Taliban laws, saying, "They are not our laws at all." Which meant that this new thinking, extremist Islamic thinking, went from Pakistani seminaries, seminaries of High Church, Deobandi brand, which could not be implemented in Pakistan, but found fertile ground in Kabul and Kandahar. Now that Pakistanis complain of "Talibanization," they should realize that the new stringent laws against women and against the minorities actually went from our seminaries.


And unemployed Islamic Gladios were transplanted from Afghanistan to the Balkans for the CIA-British campaign to destablize 1990's Bosnia-Yugoslavia.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 20 September 2008 08:09 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Obama has sworn to cross the Pakistani border in the hunt for "terrorists". He is in for a rude awakening:

US raids on Taleban and al-Qaeda targets in Pakistani territory have caused outrage in Pakistan.

quote:
And that has added to the loathing that some people there have long felt for the way that the US conducts itself on the world stage, as Owen Bennett-Jones discovers.

"I would rather live in the dark ages under the Taleban than be subservient to any foreign power."

The unexpected comment comes from an urbane, sophisticated and, I had always thought, Westernised Pashtun lawyer.

He wears none of the badges of Islamic piety - a beard, for example - and he normally sports a navy blazer not the local shalwar kameez.

He is a former minister with the Pakistan People's Party, the most liberal in Pakistan. ...

"I can deal with Taleban, they are my own people. They come from here. I know them.

"I will be able to get around them. But the Americans never. No way."



From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
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posted 20 September 2008 08:23 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Indeed. I can think of few things which would unite a people, who's disunitedness is legendary, than being attacked by US forces. There would not only be the tough and resilient people who live in the area of the Durand line, but the Pakistani military. It should be noted that this is a very tough, professional and kick-ass little army.

It's been observed that US forces are indefeatable in standard warefare, though they can't handle occupations and insurgencies. Given how over extended and exhausted they are, they could actually have their asses handed to them in straight-up warfare in Pakistan.


From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 20 September 2008 08:31 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Just one year ago, the Taliban insurgency was a furtive, loosely organized guerrilla force that carried out hit-and-run ambushes, burned empty schools, left warning letters at night and concentrated attacks in the southern rural regions of its ethnic and religious heartland.

Today it is a larger, better armed and more confident militia, capable of mounting sustained military assaults. Its forces operate in virtually every province and control many districts in areas ringing the capital. Its fighters have bombed embassies and prisons, nearly assassinated the president, executed foreign aid workers and hanged or beheaded dozens of Afghans.

The new Taliban movement has created a parallel government structure that includes defense and finance councils and appoints judges and officials in some areas. It offers cash to recruits and presents letters of introduction to local leaders. It operates Web sites and a 24-hour propaganda apparatus that spins every military incident faster than Afghan and Western officials can manage.

"This is not the Taliban of Emirate times. It is a new, updated generation," said Waheed Mojda, a former foreign ministry aide under the Taliban Islamic Emirate, which ruled most of the country from 1996 to 2001. "They are more educated, and they don't punish people for having CDs or cassettes," he said. "The old Taliban wanted to bring sharia, security and unity to Afghanistan. The new Taliban has much broader goals -- to drive foreign forces out of the country and the Muslim world."

In late 2001, U.S. forces made common cause with ethnic groups in Afghanistan's north to overthrow the Taliban, in response to Osama bin Laden's use of the country as a base. Hamid Karzai was tapped as president by the United States and other powers, then elected to the job. In the early years, much of the deeply conservative Muslim country was largely peaceful and secure.

Over the past two years, the Taliban's revival has been fueled by fast-growing popular dissatisfaction with Karzai's government, which has failed to bring services and security to much of the country. Deepening public resentment against civilian deaths caused by U.S. and NATO alliance airstrikes is another factor.

No one here believes that the insurgents, estimated at 10,000 to 15,000 fighters, are currently capable of seizing the capital of Kabul or toppling the government, which is backed by more than 130,000 international troops. But a series of spectacular urban attacks in recent months, notably the bombing of the Indian Embassy and an armed assault on a parade reviewing stand where Karzai sat, have turned Kabul into a maze of bunkers and barricades that drive officialdom ever farther from the public.


Washington Post, Sept. 20

From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Webgear
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posted 20 September 2008 09:00 PM      Profile for Webgear     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Just one year ago, the Taliban insurgency was a furtive, loosely organized guerrilla force that carried out hit-and-run ambushes, burned empty schools, left warning letters at night and concentrated attacks in the southern rural regions of its ethnic and religious heartland.

Today it is a larger, better armed and more confident militia, capable of mounting sustained military assaults. Its forces operate in virtually every province and control many districts in areas ringing the capital. Its fighters have bombed embassies and prisons, nearly assassinated the president, executed foreign aid workers and hanged or beheaded dozens of Afghans.

I disagree, the Taliban were operating in 300 man groups in as early of spring of 2006 and were assassinating officials and other people that disagree with them.

Taliban groups have never been a loosely organized guerrilla force, they are very structure.

Their tactics and weapons have not changed since 1980s nor have their objectives.

quote:
The new Taliban has much broader goals -- to drive foreign forces out of the country and the Muslim world."

Does this almost sound like an international organization?


From: Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 20 September 2008 09:06 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
An Afghan Woman Who Stands Up to the Warlords August

quote:
Afghanistan lives in the fear of the US-sponsored war lords. These hated warlords are not scared by the Taliban-monster raising its head in the south. Ironically, they live in the fear of an unarmed girl in her late twenties: Malalai Joya. To silence Joya’s defiant voice, war lords dominating national parliament, suspended Joy’s membership for three years in 2007. Earlier, at almost every parliamentary session she attended, she had her hair pulled or physically attacked and called names (‘whore’). ‘They even threatened me in the parliament with rape’, she says. But she neither toned down her criticism of war lords (‘they must be tried’) nor US occupation (‘war on terror’ is a mockery). Understandably, she’s been declared the ‘bravest woman in Afghanistan’ and even compared with Aung Sun Suu Kyi . . .

Why is the USA letting all this happen?

Joya: The USA wants the things as they are. The status quo. A bleeding, suffering Afghanistan is a good excuse to prolong its stay. Now they are even embracing the Taliban. Recently, in Musa Qila, a Taliban commander Mulla Salam was appointed as governor by Karzai. The USA has no problem with the Taliban so long as it’s ‘our Taliban’.


Must keep colonies suppressed, poverty-stricken and in chaos. Desperately poor people easier to rule over than healthy and well educated. Old ideas.

[ 20 September 2008: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 22 September 2008 03:18 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Pakistan troops repel U.S. raid

quote:
Pakistani troops have fired at two US helicopters forcing them back into Afghanistan, local Pakistani intelligence officials say.

The helicopters flew into the tribal North Waziristan region from Afghanistan's Khost province at around midnight, the reports say.

Last week Pakistani troops fired into the air to prevent US ground troops crossing the border further south.



From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
martin dufresne
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posted 22 September 2008 01:02 PM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think it quite possible that this weekend's bombing of the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad was the work not of "Islamists" but of the U.S. government wanting to instil the fear of the Talibans in the population and to detabilize a new government hostile to a U.S. invasion. It's happened before. It would explain the abrupt, unexplained, last-minute cancellation of a dinner meeting the new Pakistan president was supposed to have there.
From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 22 September 2008 01:41 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by martin dufresne:
I think it quite possible that this weekend's bombing of the Marriott Hotel in Islamabad was the work not of "Islamists" but of the U.S. government wanting to instil the fear of the Talibans in the population and to detabilize a new government hostile to a U.S. invasion. It's happened before. It would explain the abrupt, unexplained, last-minute cancellation of a dinner meeting the new Pakistan president was supposed to have there.
A "gladio" operation?

Moreover, having the Czechoslovakian Ambassador die in the bombing is also a geo-political move which brings Czechoslovakians aligned firmly on the USA's side.

[ 22 September 2008: Message edited by: remind ]


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 22 September 2008 01:52 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
There's no such place as Czechoslovakia. Which I suppose makes them a fitting ally for the U.S.
From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 22 September 2008 02:03 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
hmm, I thought I heard that the Czechoslovakian ambassador was killed?
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 22 September 2008 02:15 PM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Sound check overheard:

quote:
Check. Czech. Slovak.

From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
martin dufresne
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posted 22 September 2008 02:53 PM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It was Ivo Zdarek, the ambassador from the Czech Republic, who was living at the Marriott.
From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 22 September 2008 04:22 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oops, pardon me Czech Republic then.
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 22 September 2008 08:14 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Insurgents abduct 140 labourers in south-west Afghanistan

Methinks the insurgency is growing stronger...


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Webgear
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posted 22 September 2008 08:23 PM      Profile for Webgear     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
That is strange, they normally just execute them.
From: Montgomery's Tavern | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 22 September 2008 08:46 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hmmm, and the truth leaked out...perhaps he did not realize what he was saying
quote:
"But I'm realistic about politics here in Europe. My view is that governments here in Europe understand the importance of Afghanistan. They just aren't able to do certain kinds of things, and we understand that."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7233971.stm


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 22 September 2008 09:09 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by remind:
A "gladio" operation?

I never considered it. But apparently both you and Peter Chamberlin did, while Michael Hayden and his predecessors have for a long time.

CIA provoking war in Pakistan

quote:
Michael Hayden said the clandestine agency is using Predator missile attacks to “tickle” enemy groups, to provoke a reaction.
“We use military operations to excite the enemy, prompting him to respond.”
The agency director was jokingly referring to the policy of committing multiple mass-murders of innocent citizens of Pakistan, as a tactic for provoking retaliation by their relatives. This immoral terrorist act is considered to be a legitimate military strategy by the demented CIA mind. It sees no wrong in committing criminal acts, to cause others to commit further criminal acts, as a rationale for starting a divisive world war for resources, under the guise of “self-defense.” The idea that committing acts of war, to cause a greater war is not a war crime itself, is a product of a deranged psychopathic mind. This psychopathic mind personified by the CIA is the scourge of mankind.

Murder Inc. aren't above doing anything along these lines. No morals no scruples no conscience, just fill out an application and welcome to the company.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
remind
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 6289

posted 23 September 2008 07:09 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Bush Administration Reviews Its Afghanistan Policy, Exposing Points of Contention

Four months before President Bush leaves office, his top civilian and military aides are conducting four major new reviews of the war strategy and overall mission in Afghanistan, which have exposed internal fissures over American troop levels, how billions of aid dollars are spent, and how to cope with a deteriorating security situation in neighboring Pakistan...

“I’m not convinced we’re winning it in Afghanistan,” Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told Congress


At the same time, the senior NATO military commander, Gen. John Craddock, has undertaken a review of the foundering NATO security mission in Afghanistan.

From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
bigcitygal
Volunteer Moderator
Babbler # 8938

posted 23 September 2008 10:50 AM      Profile for bigcitygal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Closing for length. 10, do I hear 10?
From: It's difficult to work in a group when you're omnipotent - Q | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged

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