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Author Topic: Masculinist lawsuit against Quebec feminists and SWC fails in B.C.
martin dufresne
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posted 22 March 2008 10:03 AM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Good news! A lawsuit instigated by a B.C. men's rightist failed last week when judge Nathan Smith ruled in B.C. Superior Court Wiebe v. Bouchard, on March 11, that
quote:
...the plaintiff was defamed, but the defendants have satisfied the necessary requirements for a successful defence of fair comment. Having reached that conclusion, I do not need to consider the alternate defence of qualified privilege or to deal with the issue of damages. The plaintiff’s claim is dismissed.

Wiebe had sued after the publication by Status of Women Canada of a (fascinating) report entitled "School Success by Gender: A Catalyst for the Masculinist Discourse," where photos from his web site were offered as an example of anti-feminist hate speech.

From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Bacchus
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posted 22 March 2008 09:42 PM      Profile for Bacchus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What about costs? Are they out of pocket for lawyers fees? The brief seems to indicate no costs were awarded to anyone so both sides pay their own lawyers. In which case its more of a win for him. He is ruled defamed and they spent thousands upon thousands on lawyers.

[ 22 March 2008: Message edited by: Bacchus ]


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remind
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posted 22 March 2008 09:49 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Actually bacchus, he was found to be "fairly" defamed. There is a big difference in being found defamed and fairly defamed.

It was our tax dollars who paid legal costs. And I for one do not 1 bit, it was worth every penny.


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Bacchus
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posted 22 March 2008 10:06 PM      Profile for Bacchus     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
The SWC? From their dwindling funds that HarpoCo keeps decreasing to nothingness? Still not a resoundng victory and I dislike the death of a thousand cuts as much as the one big swift cut as well.
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martin dufresne
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posted 23 March 2008 07:06 AM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I agree that the law allowing the harassment leveled at feminists by masculinists created extreme personal hardship for the women who wrote this report and financial hardship and a chill effect for SWC. Large costs were also incurred by Université Laval where Bouchard, Boily and Proulx are academics.

On the personal level, the war against these women was multiplied by Quebec antifeminist websites unleashing a barrage of extraordinary vile hate speech against them - especially Pierrette Bouchard - the main scholar. But hate speech against women is legal in Canada - see C-254 Fact Sheet and please convince your organization to join that struggle.

Indeed, there is another lawsuit being heard in Quebec, against a feminist activist, Barbara Legault, and the left-wing magazine (correction back-edited in) A bâbord, by a men's rights activist for merely mentioning his group's name in an objective summary of antifeminist anti-woman activity in Québec. Both have much less financial resources than SWC and Laval U. Monies have been raised in the activist community but again, this creates a chill effect on critiques of antifeminist activity.

Such bogus allegations of personal defamation are lodged by self-represented individuals that incur almost no costs and are allowed by the system to financially hobble activists and academics with lawsuits - SLAPP litigation by individuals, so to speak.

Still, I think that it is an important victory that the B.C. Superior Court has ruled that you can tell the truth and express a strong opinion about right-wing misogynist organizations and not be found guilty of undue defamation.
A message is sent to the media that used to relay these yahoos' claims of systemic physical and ideological female violence against men - and that now come to recognize this discourse as reactionary drivel and agressive litigants as nuisances and opponents of gender justice and society as a whole.

The justice system is also taking notice and self-alleged "men's rightists" are meeting with increasing skepticism and opposition. The antifeminist suing Legault and Rebelles in Montreal was recently deemed a "querulous litigant" by the Court and barred from lodging any more lawsuits without authorities' approval - this after he repeatedly took on the Quebec Bar and a number of other male-stream judicial institutions in his mindless stance of total warfare against a system he claims to be wholly in the hands of feminists.

In the end, antifeminists are isolated and undercut not only by feminist scholarship and activism challenging their bogus statistics, smears, and antisocial behaviour, but by their own rage at the elements of the system that fail to sufficiently relay their war against women.

[ 24 March 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]


From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
lagatta
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posted 23 March 2008 07:33 AM      Profile for lagatta     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Rebelles, or "À Babord"? Rebelles no longer exists, but several ex-Rebelles are in the À Babord collective.

Here is the declaration by Barbara Legault and the collective: http://www.ababord.org/Declaration.pdf

They are very much in need of support against these macho rightwing cretins.

Please send any contributions here:

La revue À bâbord !
Att : Claude Rioux / Défense juridique
Casier postal 67, succursale C
Montréal, Québec, H2L 4S7


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martin dufresne
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posted 23 March 2008 11:25 AM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Thanks, you are right, it's A babord, sorry, working too fast and late...
Re: Bill C-254 having been voted down in the House of Commons, Valerie Smith (The Free Radical) writes:
"That is correct. As I said in the fact sheet, Borys has tried several times to get the Bill passed and the Conservatives defeat it every time. There's more info on the Bill at this link (scroll down for Hansard excerpts and a bunch of other material). Or there are several news releases about it in the News Release section.
Bill C-254 - Add women to hate propaganda law"

[ 23 March 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]


From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
martin dufresne
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posted 24 March 2008 10:28 AM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Wiebe whines back: 'Defamed' father can't understand judge's ruling Have you noticed how the MSM always call men's rights activists 'fathers'?

[ 24 March 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 24 March 2008 11:51 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Unless you can substantiate that claim, Martin, I would appreciate it if you would edit that out of your post. Maybe subject your own web site to libel claims instead of ours, especially since it's clear this guy is litigious.

[ 24 March 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 24 March 2008 12:23 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Never mind, I did it myself.
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skarredmunkey
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posted 24 March 2008 04:19 PM      Profile for skarredmunkey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This is a fascinating case, thanks for posting the info Martin.

I am worried about any precedent it may have, however. My rudimentary understanding of the case is that it now allows defamation to take place and go unpunished so long as the accused can show that they (not the courts) interpreted something as hateful at the time of defamation.

I wonder will Wiebe v Bouchard provide the impetus for just about anyone to -- rightly or wrongly -- deem something as hateful, and therefore be protected from accusations of defamation?


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martin dufresne
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posted 24 March 2008 04:40 PM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't know that Judge Smith's decision creates a precedent. My allegedly limited understanding is that, in general, a case cannot do so until it is decided on appeal.
One thing I know is that it is disturbingly easy for the rich and powerful to quash critique and destroy critics by alleging defamation. Google Reichmann + Olympia and York Developments Ltd. for details.

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Doug
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posted 24 March 2008 06:08 PM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What does suing people have to do with masculinity? Man up and take it!
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martin dufresne
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posted 24 March 2008 06:16 PM      Profile for martin dufresne   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Everything, unfortunately... The linked SWC report is rather clear about that.

[ 24 March 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]


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remind
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posted 25 March 2008 06:00 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by skarredmunkey:
I am worried about any precedent it may have, however.
Frankly, the greater worry would have been had the Judge not found him fairly defamed.

quote:
My rudimentary understanding of the case is that it now allows defamation to take place and go unpunished so long as the accused can show that they (not the courts) interpreted something as hateful at the time of defamation.
Those precedents were in place before this ruling, as the Judge used several cases to support his reasoning.

quote:
I wonder will Wiebe v Bouchard provide the impetus for just about anyone to -- rightly or wrongly -- deem something as hateful, and therefore be protected from accusations of defamation?

Again, the real issue is hate mongering against women, and how it would have played out, had the Judge not ruled Weibe had been fairly defamed.

From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Summer
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posted 25 March 2008 09:21 AM      Profile for Summer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This case does not set a precedent. It follows other cases. The law seems to be settled in this area:

From the judgment

quote:

In order to succeed in an action for defamation, a plaintiff must show:
1. That the words complained of are defamatory;
2. That they referred to the plaintiff; and
3. That they were published to a third party.
…If the plaintiff proves those elements, the defendant can rely on a number of specific defences. The relevant defences in this case are justification (truth), fair comment and qualified privilege.
SNIP

A defamatory statement is one that “tends to lower the plaintiff in the estimation of right-thinking members of society generally or to expose him to hatred, ridicule or contempt.” … Just as it is defamatory to label a person a racist …there can be little doubt that an association with hatred and violence against women would “lower the plaintiff in the estimation of right-thinking members of society.”


There is no such thing in law as being “fairly defamed” or “unfairly defamed”. The plaintiff was defamed. The defendants were able to rely on the defences of justification and fair comment, so the plaintiff lost.


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remind
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posted 25 March 2008 09:32 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So fair and just comments are not defamation?
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kropotkin1951
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posted 25 March 2008 12:42 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Sort of.


quote:
4. Fair comment
We all are free to comment – even harshly – about issues of public interest, as long as our comments are honest, based on fact, and not malicious. For example, a newspaper columnist may write that a Member of Parliament (an MP) says he supports equality and equal rights, but he opposes same-sex marriages. The columnist writes that the MP is hypocritical. If the MP sues the columnist for defamation, the columnist has the defence of fair comment.

Media articles that accurately report what was said at public meetings are also privileged, unless the meeting was not of public concern and the report was not for public benefit.


The issue must be a public one not a private one.


Can Bar


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remind
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posted 26 March 2008 09:02 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, I see, because this was done by SWC as a public report, and because the web site was in public domain, it falls under that legal ruling.

So, really it was a significant win, as the Judge basically ruled that the SCW report told the truth and so what if it defamed him, it was a fair observation of his web site depictions.


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged

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