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After talking to women in all parts of the country, Amnesty concludes in a report today that violence is widespread in most regions. There is "impunity on an enormous scale".

The collapse of the Taliban provided a new chance to break with age-old traditions of male abuse against which women were virtually defenceless. But the report says the government has "no clear strategy" to change attitudes and punish abusers. "It has failed to incorporate gender effectively into the national budget or the policy calculations of line ministries," Amnesty says.

The US, Britain and other foreign governments have also done little to promote better standards. "Key donors supporting the reform of the police and judiciary have failed to ensure their intervention will support the protection of women's rights. In certain instances, international intervention is perpetuating and condoning gender discrimination," it says. The post of "senior gender adviser" in the UN mission in Afghanistan has been vacant for most of this year.

The report paints a picture of women being treated as chattel, which long predates the Taliban. Often the only escape from abusive homes for women in forced marriages is to go away with a man who is not a relative. This in itself is considered a violation of the family's honour, making a woman liable to imprisonment by judges for the offence of "running away", although the country's penal code contains no such crime.

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At the convention of the "loya jirga", or grand assembly, to debate Afghanistan's new constitution, an extraordinary thing happened. Malalai Joya, a 25-year-old female social worker from the rural province of Farah, stood up and said what no one else had dared say: that many of the jirga's committee chairmen were criminals. Instead of being given influential positions, they should be tried for their crimes. The actions Joya referred to were committed by Islamic fundamentalists - mujahideen, or holy warriors - from 1992 to 1996 and included widespread rocket shellings, torture, rape and mass killings of civilians.

Joya's impassioned plea was particularly daring in Afghanistan. Although the United States and the United Nations hailed the defeat of the Taliban as a "liberation" for the Afghan people, the reality is otherwise - especially for women. Most people are afraid to speak against those in power for fear of retribution. Joya is under UN protection after receiving death threats.

US support of fundamentalists in powerful positions has left Afghanistan's dreams of freedom dashed, and women far from liberated.

Last; year I visited Kabul to finish shooting a documentary about Afghan women. One of the women I followed, Shapiray, had returned to Kabul from a Pakistani refugee camp, where she stayed after fleeing the Taliban in 1998.

Shapiray's circumstances exemplify the many difficulties women still face. She teaches in a small girls' school near her home, about 60 kilometres from Kabul. Walking to and from the school, she wears the traditional burqa, the head-to-toe garment. She doesn't wear it out of religious duty, but as a protective measure; she is fearful of public humiliation and physical attack at the hands of armed Northern Alliance mujahideen who rule her area.

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Originally posted by writer:
women, rape and war

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Originally posted by Fidel:
Fascists sometimes make a habit of marching into sovereign countries and declaring local people the enemies of freedom and democracy.

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Originally posted by remind:

It seems they also make a habit of marching into forums and doing the same thing. Micro = Macro

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Sorry about that, Sweetie.

[ 15 June 2007: Message edited by: Sven ]

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Originally posted by Sven:
remind, you are a boring, witless, and sad misandrist.

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And that would be # 5 on the typical sexist male impotent diatribe list, of what they resort to when called on their sexist actions, personal attacks.

and no of course, we have never saw this behaviour before either, no never, not at all.

Oh we got back to back posts a double shot of misogyny, so to speak, with this:

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But, then, you would, no doubt, wear that label as a badge of honor, even though it makes you the perfect female equivalent of a male misogynist. The irony, is no doubt, above your head and beyond the ability of your wee-wee brain to comprehend.

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And there we have number 7, used by the priviledged male when you are calling them on their ctions the accusation that you are practising misandry, because after how dare you question the priviledge, and that you do so means you half to hate hate men.

Amazing, how far the white priviledged male will go to keep that sense of priviledge, eh?!

[ 15 June 2007: Message edited by: remind ]

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Originally posted by remind:

And that would be # 5 on the typical sexist male impotent diatribe list, of what they resort to when called on their sexist actions, personal attacks.

and no of course, we have never saw this behaviour before either, no never, not at all.

Amazing, how far the white priviledged male will go to keep that sense of priviledge, eh?!

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Originally posted by Sven:
Did anyone ever tell you that you are cute and adorable when you behave like that? Just an adorable little snookums. Very little intellect, but adorable.

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Originally posted by remind:

wow, you are going to hit the top 10 list at this rate tonight, cause you just got to *drum roll* # 9, on the list of things priviledged white males do to women, which is infantize them, to juxposition themselves as the mature incontrol parental figure and it was a double whammy with objection attached to it. amazing, can't wait for numer 10...

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But heh, this was a great excercise, I had a live example to show/exhibit to all the women readers out there, why women are not being taken seriously when they discuss rape and why so many no longer bother to report it.

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Originally posted by remind:
sigh, I wish I was aking them up, but I am not, you just happen to embody and try pretty much every priviledged white male tactic, to try and control said dialogue and said women stating the dialogue.

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Of course. When you live in your own fantasy world, everything you do and think is correct. And, every man who disagrees with you is, obviously, exhibiting "priviledged white male" tactics.

You're brilliant.

In your own mind.

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Originally post by Sven f course. When you live in your own fantasy world, everything you do and think is correct. And, every man who disagrees with you is, obviously, exhibiting "priviledged white male" tactics.

You're brilliant.

In your own mind.

You don't have to look at the world with rose-colored glasses, but, for gawd's sake, take off your shit-colored glasses once in a while, eh?

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Amazing, simply amazing, you have not listened to one word that any of the women have said, nor read any of the threads, nor in fact listened to any men who disagree with your hectoring misogyny.

Still you personally attack with vicious words, and stereotypical patriarchial labelling of a woman who challenges their authority and priviledge.

Oh yes, I live in a fantasy word alright, none of these threads exhibit white male priviledge, eh?

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Originally posted by remind:

Amazing, simply amazing, you have not listened to one word that any of the women have said, nor read any of the threads, nor in fact listened to any men who disagree with your hectoring misogyny.

Still you personally attack with vicious words, and stereotypical patriarchial labelling of a woman who challenges their authority and priviledge.

Oh yes, I live in a fantasy word alright, none of these threads exhibit white male priviledge, eh?

Well they do, you do, and I would like to thank you for exposing who and what you are in full technicolour.

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The fact that rape occurs all the time, in places all over the world, may render it less noticeable as a collective trauma [such as war], but does not make it an exclusively "individual" trauma ...

Sexual violence victimizes not only those women who are directly attacked, but all women. The fear of rape has long functioned to keep women in their place. Whether or not one agrees with the claims of those, such as Susan Brownmiller (1995), who argue that rape is a means by which all men keep all women subordinate, the fact that all women's lives are restricted by sexual violence is indisputable ... the fear of rape prevents women from enjoying what men consider to be their birthright. Fifty percent of women never use public transporation after dark because of fear of rape. Women are eight times more likely than men to avoid walking in their own neighborhoods after dark, for the same reason.

From Aftermath, by Susan J. Brison

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The fact that rape occurs all the time, in places all over the world, may render it less noticeable as a collective trauma [such as war], but does not make it an exclusively "individual" trauma ...

Sexual violence victimizes not only those women who are directly attacked, but all women. The fear of rape has long functioned to keep women in their place. Whether or not one agrees with the claims of those, such as Susan Brownmiller (1995), who argue that rape is a means by which all men keep all women subordinate, the fact that all women's lives are restricted by sexual violence is indisputable ... the fear of rape prevents women from enjoying what men consider to be their birthright.

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So do not know what to do with the emotions that these threads evoke, and embody.

I guess the first one is anguish at finding nothing much has changed for the plight of women. The greater majority of men, it appears, are so addicted to being the privileged, that they feel no compunction but to try to denigrate women, who stand up, challenge and say NO MORE.

Perhaps they really believe in that head of theirs that they have some right to be the overlords, and cannot get passed it?

Who knows really, as I can't see one male standing up and saying honestly why they feel they have a right to be privileged. But even in the face of this glaring silence, or outright misogyny, writer's posting all these threads, has exposed a great deal of the ugly under belly of male patriarchy and how far they go to keep women silent and themselves in privilege.

The ones that made the meally mouthed comments urging a stalker on, were noted, though not commented on. But please do know your comments stand in stark testimony, along with the person's whom you were encouraging on, as being a huge portion of the problems in society regarding violence against others, may it be sexual, physical, mental or emotional.

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My own predisposition is to assume that every single person here, even the ones I almost never agree with like Frustrated Mess or Unionist, are very good people. To be fair, I just remembered (as I typed the previous sentence) one time where I lost all rationality and veered from that. But I have not, and hope I never would, make an implied analogy between a poster here and sex offenders, mass murderers, et cetera.

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As someone who's been raped and assaulted by men and boys over the decades, I've had the ability to live in such a privileged, cozy world stripped away from me.

This is not my fault.

Over the years here at babble, many women who've lived with a reality that is horrifically common but rarely openly spoken of have tried to explain how the status quo does not work. How it is killing us.

How it is oppressive.

I've been assaulted by complete strangers, a family member, and by those I casually know. One of whom did very good things like work for the liberation of the people of East Timor.

All of them were male.

This is not my fault.

As a result, no, I don't presume everybody around me is very good.

And this is not my fault.

And it doesn't mean I am a cruel and insensitive person, blind in my rage and pain. And it doesn't mean I think posters here are "sex offenders, mass murderers, et cetera."

Nor have I written this.

I have educated myself about rape. I have read what rapists have to say, how they feel, how they rationalize what they do. I've come to understand that they often don't see rape as rape, but as a she-said, he-said kind of thing. A misunderstanding. And she's the one who's got issues.

I see this pattern of thinking reflected on babble, again and again.

I know well that few rapists say they are monsters. In the thread linked to above, the same person I quote at the beginning of this post said he was not a monster. Why use that word? What does it mean in the context of such a discussion? What does it mean to those of us who've heard the same thing from someone else who seemed set to destroy us?

What does it trigger?

This was pointed out. And then attacked. And the response was to portray me as sick and damaged. To put words in my mouth. To make me a cartoon. As though I think every man is a sexual predator. It is not what I think. It is not what I wrote.

I wrote that the words are the same ones used by rapists. So the words are meaningless for those who've heard them before - those who the writer seemed to want to appeal to. Who've seen their daddies praised as good fathers. Seen the guys who just raped them at a party go back to their buddies and have their shoulders affectionately punched ...

It's as though we've been hit by a truck driven by a man, and other men stand and point when one of us gets up: "Look how she limps! What is wrong with her? Why doesn't she just get over it? ... We are just trying to help."

If you want to know what rape does, you have to hear what rape does. If you want to understand what rape does, you have to accept that your reality might not be the same as women who've been raped, harassed, stalked, assaulted, aggressively hit on, objectified, threatened, coerced and alienated by a male-dominated, woman-hating society.

The myth is that women need to be protected. And some men buy into that, and want to protect us.

The reality for us is that we are exposed to threats and reminded of the potential for violence every single day. And some men, in their desire to be helpful, suffocate our ability to speak out about that reality by shouting out their good intentions, and fear of being misrepresented, their fear of being associated with the bad guys, their fear that ... well ... they can't fix this so easily.

You'd be going a long way by simply not dominating. Really. It's a big part of the problem. It contributes to the culture that results in girls and women and boys and men getting raped, and in men beating women, children, and other men.

So yes, sometimes the best thing a man can do in solidarity is listen, and not jump to defend himself from imagined slights when others are trying to share knowledge, insight and pain based on their very real, lived, trauma.

At least, it would be a start.

[ 16 June 2007: Message edited by: writer ]

quote:

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Originally posted by writer:
I know that, for me, one of the more upsetting statements over the last days was in the thread Duke lacrosse prosecutor faces disbarment:

As someone who's been raped and assaulted by men and boys over the decades, I've had the ability to live in such a privileged, cozy world stripped away from me.

This is not my fault.

Over the years here at babble, many women who've lived with a reality that is horrifically common but rarely openly spoken of have tried to explain how the status quo does not work. How it is killing us.

How it is oppressive.

I've been assaulted by complete strangers, a family member, and by those I casually know. One of whom did very good things like work for the liberation of the people of East Timor.

All of them were male.

This is not my fault.

As a result, no, I don't presume everybody around me is very good.

And this is not my fault.

And it doesn't mean I am a cruel and insensitive person, blind in my rage and pain. And it doesn't mean I think posters here are "sex offenders, mass murderers, et cetera."

Nor have I written this.

I have educated myself about rape. I have read what rapists have to say, how they feel, how they rationalize what they do. I've come to understand that they often don't see rape as rape, but as a she-said, he-said kind of thing. A misunderstanding. And she's the one who's got issues.

I see this pattern of thinking reflected on babble, again and again.

I know well that few rapists say they are monsters. In the thread linked to above, the same person I quote at the beginning of this post said he was not a monster. Why use that word? What does it mean in the context of such a discussion? What does it mean to those of us who've heard the same thing from someone else who seemed set to destroy us?

What does it trigger?

This was pointed out. And then attacked. And the response was to portray me as sick and damaged. To put words in my mouth. To make me a cartoon. As though I think every man is a sexual predator. It is not what I think. It is not what I wrote.

I wrote that the words are the same ones used by rapists. So the words are meaningless for those who've heard them before - those who the writer seemed to want to appeal to. Who've seen their daddies praised as good fathers. Seen the guys who just raped them at a party go back to their buddies and have their shoulders affectionately punched ...

It's as though We've been hit by a truck driven by a man, and other men stand and point when one of us gets up: "Look how she limps! What is wrong with her? Why doesn't she just get over it? ... We are just trying to help."

If you want to know what rape does, you have to hear what rape does. If you want to understand what rape does, you have to accept that your reality might not be the same as women who've been raped, harassed, stalked, assaulted, aggressively hit on, objectified, threatened, coerced and alienated by a male-dominated, woman-hating society.

The myth is that women need to be protected. And some men buy into that, and want to protect us.

The reality for us is that we are exposed to threats and reminded of the potential for violence every single day. And some men, in their desire to be helpful, suffocate our ability to speak out about that reality by shouting out their good intentions, and fear of being misrepresented, their fear of being associated with the bad guys, their fear that ... well ... they can't fix this so easily.

You'd be going a long way by simply not dominating. Really. It's a big part of the problem. It contributes to the culture that results in girls and women getting raped, and in men beating other men.

At least, it would be a start.

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Hear these, words of writer's, they stand for me, and surely they stand for all women/men who have been stalked, raped and violated.

Thank you writer.

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Sometimes words just hit you where you can finally hear them.

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Polly, if you're up to it, I'd be really interested in learning what especially resonated for you.

I've been thinking today about the myth of protection. About how, often, those of us who have been attacked feel a pressure to stay silent, so that those who think they are keeping us safe aren't confronted with their failure. And so that we don't experience the attack that comes with the common denial that follows our disclosures, which makes us feel even more alone, marginalized, freakish, damaged and ashamed.

I wonder whether the "protectors'" fear of failure - of there not being a magical thing to be done by good people to avoid or stop this pain - is part of the dynamic here.

That and the refusal to acknowledge we each can play a part in a societal shift that will make a difference. But that this means we all need to be open to change - and be willing to hear about our damaging behaviours, which can come out even when we are doing something with the best of intentions.

To accept that we all have been tainted by a culture of oppression that is rarely acknowledged as being what it is.

quote:

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Originally posted by writer:
...thinking...about the myth of protection. About how, often, those of us who have been attacked feel a pressure to stay silent...which makes us feel even more alone, marginalized, freakish, damaged and ashamed.

That and the refusal to acknowledge we each can play a part in a societal shift that will make a difference. But that this means we all need to be open to change - and be willing to hear about our damaging behaviours, which can come out even when we are doing something with the best of intentions.

To accept that we all have been tainted by a culture of oppression that is rarely acknowledged as being what it is.

I can see the temptation to believe we've somehow broken away from the dynamic and remain unaffected by it. And so, we are beyond criticism. And that any criticism or perceived criticism - any other person's uncomfortable truth - becomes a threat to one's own identity.

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quote:

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Originally posted by writer:

Polly, if you're up to it, I'd be really interested in learning what especially resonated for you.

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