quote:

---

“She told me they wanted her to make the case go away,” Jakki [cousin of the accuser] (she will not reveal her last name in order to protect her family), the designated family spokesperson, told The Carolinian and Wilmington Journal newspapers in an exclusive interview June 19.

However Jakki adds that her younger cousin, the Black woman at the center of the nation’s most controversial criminal case, refused because she insists that she was indeed beaten and sodomized by the three indicted white Duke lacrosse team members - Colin Finnerty, Reade Seligmann and David Evans - each charged with first-degree rape, first-degree sexual assault and first-degree kidnapping.

“It’s not about the money to her,” Jakki says. “It’s about her [being] brutally raped, sodomized, called a ‘nigger.’ Can you imagine being choked and held down? The thought of it – it reminds me of slavery days when the women were brutally raped by the masters - makes me furious because they want to make these [Duke players] out to be golden boys.”

---

The fact that a cousin of the alleged victim said the alleged victim was offered $2 million to keep quiet, without more, strikes me as not being very credible evidence (particularly when contrasted with the alleged victim’s hiring of a publicity agent, a history of making at least one other false accusation under similar circumstances and the fact that her colleague said no such attack occurred). Most importantly from my perspective, the fact that there is apparently zero DNA evidence of a sexual assault (which is nearly impossible if three people rape a woman), is pretty strong exculpatory evidence.

It's really too bad lawyers have turned rape accusations into an financial industry. My first introduction to the issue when I was about 12 was a documentary movie of the woman in the states whose court case was responsible for the "reasonable woman" standard. I remember thinking that was a great idea. Unfortunately I think that will go into history in some time.

[ 28 June 2006: Message edited by: 500_Apples ]

there are women who change their minds because they are afraid or just way too tired to jump through all of the required hoops.

i personally know 2 women who never reported the rapes, they just wanted to pretend that it didn't happen.

quote:

---

Originally posted by morningstar:
if men would quit raping women, false accusations could become a non issue.

---

That’s largely true.

quote:

---

if men would quit raping women

---

The grammar implies men have some collective guilt. Personally I resent that. Not only would I never behave in such a way, but I can say with confidence that neither would any of my close friends. I have as much responsibility for the actions of rapists (we're all men) as I do for Jack Abramoff's corruption in the states (we're both jewish). A few years ago a political party in (sweden?) proposed that men should pay higher taxes to fund women's shelters and such. I recall thinking that they were doing a great job to trivialize the issue.

After thirty years as a criminal defence lawyer, I seen one female charged with sexual assault, compared to about 88,000 males. So, I think the terminology is pretty realistic.....

Obviously, the problem of rape is a far greater problem in society than is the problem of women who make up stories about rape.

Still, the latter does occur. For example, it is surprising how many women in some minority communities engage in sex, and then decide it is rape after having spoken to their fathers.

It also happens that women may actively participate in sex, but later decide that it must have been the alcohol talking, because the other person is a creep, she never would have, etc. etc.

quote:

---

2. A survey on date rape showed that 60% of Canadian college-aged males indicated that they would commit sexual assault if they were certain they would not get caught.

---

Then there are authors such as Voltaire who wrote that rape is simply a fact of war making and it is silly for woman to resist this essential rite of passage. Of course he was being satirical.

Sexual activilty is simply a biological imperative that every beast and creature on the planet experiences. Granted, there are an incredible number of people on the planet that have no higher thinking or aspirations than to find ever newer ways to stimulate their own genitals.

But perhaps there would be a lot less rape going on between human beings if we had a culture that promoted more respect for our fellow humans than simply viewing them as a means of satisfying our primitive impulses, breeding and stimulating pleasure centers.

quote:

---

Originally posted by otter:
Before posters get too carried away take a look at the findings of some other studies such as WAVAW

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by otter:
2. A survey on date rape showed that 60% of Canadian college-aged males indicated that they would commit sexual assault if they were certain they would not get caught.

---

That doesn’t surprise me in the least. I think similar surveys have been done showing that a substantial majority of people would steal $1 million if they were guaranteed not to get caught.

People, if left to their own devices, and acting without any constraints of social mores, will do some pretty hideous things. This is where laws, ethics and morals are important to a well-ordered society.

quote:

---

Originally posted by otter:
But perhaps there would be a lot less rape going on between human beings if we had a culture that promoted more respect for our fellow humans than simply viewing them as a means of satisfying our primitive impulses, breeding and stimulating pleasure centers.

---

I think there’s a lot of truth to that. Whether or not that can ever be accomplished is another matter. But, that shouldn’t discourage people from trying.

[ 28 June 2006: Message edited by: Sven ]

quote:

---

People, if left to their own devices, and acting without any constraints of social mores, will do some pretty hideous things. This is where laws, ethics and morals are important to a well-ordered society.

---

it is violence against women
it has a long history globally
if you are male you carry the weight of that history of man by virtue of
your sex and the automatic power and privilege that this still entails.
you also get to carry that group culpability
until you've remedied the injustice of the imbalance of power.

i keep noticing alot of ducking around this matter.
we don't get to pretend that we are only individuals in this game of life. most large movements seem to require a group commitment and action.
just because we think we're nice people doesn't let us off the hook.
the long and dishonourable history of the rape of women by men is just one reason that all men need to be actively working for feminism.

i love many nice men.
i absolutely hold all men responsible for the violence and disempowerment of women.
i also won't be giving men alot of credibility
in gender matters until i see a much more concerted effort by men to educate themselves and take real action.

I certainly do not hold my brothers, uncle, boyfriend, etc responsible for any rape or violence towards women.

I can see the concept having real merit as a defensive attitude when in a vulnerable situation. When I'm out walking around the local park at night, I try to be conscious of how a woman might feel as I overtake her, or intercept her path. Sometimes I cross the street, and usually make sure she hears me, so she won't worry I'm sneaking up behind. Really, it's just guessing how she might feel.

OTOH, if a woman is constantly on red alert, always feeling imminently vulnerable to violent assault, that's another thing. None of the women I know feel that way.

[ 28 June 2006: Message edited by: bittersweet ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by morningstar:
the rape of women is not about sex--- it's about power and hate and fear.

it is violence against women
it has a long history globally
if you are male you carry the weight of that history of man by virtue of
your sex and the automatic power and privilege that this still entails.
you also get to carry that group culpability
until you've remedied the injustice of the imbalance of power.

---

Well, that may be your view, but outside of the cookoo's nest, we don't tend to view our moral responsibilities and culpabilities as primarily a function of our chromosomes. We tend to view them as a function of our actions and as a function of the necessities with which the moral universe presents us.

quote:

---

Originally posted by morningstar:
. . . you also get to carry that group culpability . . .

---

I also see that, once again, practically all the people posting in this thread are men, all pissed off oer the pretty basic feminist theory that male privilege, which all men benefit from in some way, whether they want to or not, is derived from the violence of some men. I see people also up in arms at the statement that it is men who do the raping, which, as jeff house has stated in his post, is almost completely true.

Does this mean that all men are rapists and all men are violent? No, no one said that.

I think this is a pretty clear case of why men on babble need to maybe do a lot more listening and a lot less blathering in the feminism forum. This forum was set up for feminist women to have a voice, and I refuse to allow them to be silenced by extremely vocal men bombarding them with bullshit about how most rapes are false accusations, or that feminism is evil.

If you guys can't stop turning these threads into pissing matches, I'm going to start banning people. If you can't handle the "unfairness" of not being able to speak as much as women or not being respectful of women in this forum, stay out of it.