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Topic: Le Pen visits the BNP (bad dream...?)
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1st Person
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3984
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posted 27 April 2004 04:35 PM
Willowdale - ALL of them.I love this description: "Two children carrying a dog basket emerged from a pet shop and hissed "idiots" - it wasn't clear to whom - while a clergywoman in a dog collar arrived carrying a banner reading Manchester Against Racism."
From: Kingston | Registered: Apr 2003
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Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469
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posted 27 April 2004 05:34 PM
But why is voting representatives out of office (or never letting them into office in the first place) not a more meaningful, and frankly mature, way to go?I referred to kicking the dog because throwing rocks and trash seems a little like acting out emotionally, at least when practiced by adults. I'm not saying they shouldn't be angry, but when did that anger begin to mean "anything goes"?
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002
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Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469
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posted 28 April 2004 11:48 AM
My point is — and "car" or "head" makes no difference to it — that he's a man looking to be elected, so that presumably he can institute regressive policies, so why not just don't elect him?In other words, he's not a dictator, he's not the local warlord, he doesn't have the population oppressed under his boot. He's trying to get himself elected in a democracy — something we all have the right to do, no? — so what's the need of hurling rocks at him/his car/whatever? Just seems a little juvenile in a case like this.
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002
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Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469
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posted 28 April 2004 12:08 PM
The answer is obvious to me, yes. But I don't know that it's obvious to those with a different opinion of something like this, so I'm curious what their answer is. I don't think it's an unfair question to ask: what makes throwing rocks and garbage at a man, even a man with repugnant ideas, a good or necessary thing?
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002
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lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534
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posted 28 April 2004 01:01 PM
But Magoo is not merely chastising the antifascists for some juvenile behaviour. His conception of democracy is simply going to the polls every four years or whatever, and otherwise remaining passive while the fascists organise. Democracy is not just voting; popular protests are an essential facet. Smash fascism! A bas, à bas Le Front national F - comme fasciste et N - comme Nazi - à bas!
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002
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Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469
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posted 28 April 2004 01:50 PM
quote: His conception of democracy is simply going to the polls every four years or whatever, and otherwise remaining passive while the fascists organise.
Ah. So anything other than hurling rocks is "passive"? He and his ilk can organize, but you can't, outside of throwing garbage at him? You're typically a sensible person, but when the topic of far right agitators like Le Pen comes up, it's out the window and "anything goes". I expect people to be angry when they hear repugnant ideas, but as adults I also hope we can all handle that anger accordingly. Even for the likes of Le Pen, there are limits, don't you think?
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002
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Briguy
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1885
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posted 28 April 2004 02:02 PM
quote: Ah. So anything other than hurling rocks is "passive"? He and his ilk can organize, but you can't, outside of throwing garbage at him?
There is always a dilemna when protesting something. Peaceful protests will be overshadowed violent protests, even when the violent people represent a small minority. What are activists to do? Stop protesting because there's a potential that things can get a little heated? There'll never be another protest again, anywhere. You can't just voice concern over Le Pen during election campaigns. Why? Because Le Pen himself doesn't remain silent, or lose influence, between campaigns. He is often, for unwarranted reasons, at the forefront of French politics and news. He travels around Europe meeting with other influential racists. That sort of coverage and politicking has to be tackled head on, in France and, when he travels, abroad. Sitting at home worrying over whether some fellow protestors could cross the line is no solution. [ 28 April 2004: Message edited by: Sarcasmobri ]
From: No one is arguing that we should run the space program based on Physics 101. | Registered: Nov 2001
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lagatta
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2534
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posted 28 April 2004 02:18 PM
Odd, if you read my post I referred to "some juvenile behaviour" (the throwing of rubbish and stones, etc.) Rowdiness, but of a relatively minor sort. No, I do not advocate throwing rubbish at cars. Yes, I do advocate protesting fascists wherever they speak. Le Pen is not merely an elected official or wannabe elected official. He was a torturer in the Algerian war, a friend of unrepentant Nazis and collaborators (and of the Italian fascists in the MSI, whose symbol the FN copied, changing the colours of the flame to those of France). He has been convicted several times of incitement to racial hatred and of Holocaust denial. Just recently, he was barred from the European Parliament for ASSAULT against a Socialist Party woman candidate for the MEP race. I believe it would be criminally abetting race hatred and violence to stand by passively while he speaks. In France, almost everyone on the left, far from refusing the ballot box, held their noses and voted for Chirac (yecch!) to deny Le Pen not only a victory but a significant vote in the second round of elections there. I believe it is highly sensible to militantly oppose race-haters.
From: Se non ora, quando? | Registered: Apr 2002
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