It's known that the Canadians murdered by Israel were of Lebanese decent, and thus likely had darker skin than most Canadians. As sickening as it is, I cannot help but feel that if these were white Canadians vacationing in, say, Ireland, we would have had an inquiry, formed a commission to investigate this matter, and held the perpetrators responsible. Perhaps I'm reading too much into this, but it seems incomprehensible that our memories would be so short if the victims of this massacre were, what the racists in our current government would call, "real Canadians".

[ 19 February 2007: Message edited by: Kevin_Laddle ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
How about our racist Prime Minister declaring all Arabs are terrorists after calling the murder of these Canadians a "measured response"? And why did our PM make such an outrageous statement? Currying sectarian votes.

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I agree with you that Harpoon routinely stirs up old ethnic fueds for partisan gain. But when it comes to the Israeli situation, something else is it play here. The neo-conservative ideology embraced by Harper is derived from a radical form of Christianity, and holds that Israel has some god given right to kill, terrorize, and imprison in the name of clinging to its stolen lands. Were Harper just exploiting the situation for partisan gain, we could at least expect him to change when the political winds blow the other direction. What is so scary here is that Harper, and the lunatics advising him, share a George Bush like belief that they are carrying out god's will, and no amount of facts, reason, and rationale will deter them.

quote:

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and holds that Israel has some god given right to kill, terrorize, and imprison in the name of clinging to its stolen lands

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quote:

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Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
How about our racist Prime Minister declaring all Arabs are terrorists after calling the murder of these Canadians a "measured response"? And why did our PM make such an outrageous statement? Currying sectarian votes.

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edited to add:

Just found the last time you made this assertion.

posted 10 February 2007 06:33 AM
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quote:
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quote:
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FM could you post a link to show where Harper called all Arabs terrorists.
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Absolutely. "a battle between a democratic state and terrorist groups who seek to destroy both it and its people is not a matter of shades of grey."

http://www.judeoscope.ca/article.php3?id_article=0534

Israel is a "democratic state" while Palestinians and Lebanese, and by extension all Arabs, and by extension of all of Islam, are "terrorists". Why didn't he just substitute "terrorists" with "cock roaches"? It is the same intent.

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Oh my God I dont know about anyone else but if that's the proof offered Frustrated Mess, your entire thesis is left in the gutter. How "by extention" you read that Harper calls all Islam terrorists is beyond me. I play no harp for Harper but this is more than a stretch it is absurd.
[ 10 February 2007: Message edited by: ohara ]

[ 20 February 2007: Message edited by: ohara ]

Israel murdered 7 Canadians last summer, in an aggressive military campaign which our prime minister strongly supported, and now our government is acting as if this crime never even occured. Does this not concern you in the least bit?

Edited to add: Ohara, do you believe that we would have the same muted response from our government if white Canadians vacationing in Ireland were murdered by the military of a supposed ally of ours?

[ 20 February 2007: Message edited by: Kevin_Laddle ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
Did Harper not describe Palestinians and Lebanese as "terrorists"? The only thing invented are the denials. And perhaps you might actually condemn the deaths of innocence when it occurs under Israeli arms. Just for once, you know?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kevin_Laddle:
Ohara, do you believe that we would have the same muted response from our government if white Canadians vacationing in Ireland were murdered by the military of a supposed ally of ours?

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"Last summer, when Israel came under attack from terrorist groups," Harper in the same address. For those with short memories, Israel invaded Gaza killing hundreds of mostly civilians including a family on beach in what they called "Summer Rains". They also invaded Lebanon killing almost 2,000 civilians and used cluster munitions and there have been claims of white phosphorous which they have been accused of using previously. The Israeli defense minister described how targetting civilians was part of a strategy to create a humanitarian crisis to overwhelm Hezbollah.

But the civilian Lebanese victims, including those Canadians, to our Prime Minister, were all terrorists who deserved to die while Israel was a true friend just minding her own business.

Canadians ought to be deeply ashamed Canada has once again embraced racism as it did in the 30s.

[ 20 February 2007: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Kevin_Laddle:
The neo-conservative ideology embraced by Harper is derived from a radical form of Christianity, and holds that Israel has some god given right to kill, terrorize, and imprison in the name of clinging to its stolen lands. ...

These freaks are not fit to lead a hotdog stand, let alone a progressive nation.

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Ok so how do you explain the Liberal party position being the exact same and the NDP being the same.

I say the exact same because at a dinner organized by CIJA only a couple of months ago Dion, Harper and Layton all attended.

All spoke highly of the State of Israel and Layton presented the first David Lewis Memorial award to Lucille Broadbent with Ed accepting for her.

So tell me. How does this radical christianity also flow through the libs and the ndp?

ETA if you want to attack for Harper for his pro-Isreal statements fine but you had better also attack the NDP and the Libs in the same breath.

All parties have made the same -- yes the same -- public statements in the last couple of weeks.

when will people start realizing that all parties think the same way. to attack only Harper is a misguided failure

[ 20 February 2007: Message edited by: miles ]

quote:

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Originally posted by miles:
[QB]

Ok so how do you explain the Liberal party position being the exact same and the NDP being the same.

I say the exact same because at a dinner organized by CIJA only a couple of months ago Dion, Harper and Layton all attended.

All spoke highly of the State of Israel and Layton presented the first David Lewis Memorial award to Lucille Broadbent with Ed accepting for her.

So tell me. How does this radical christianity also flow through the libs and the ndp?

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Attending a CIJA dinner does not indicate support for a specific agenda, that's a very foolish comment.

In any case, the issue I want to discuss here is the lack of justice for the Canadians murdered by Israel last summer. If you don't care enough to bother discussing this, please go elsewhere.

[ 20 February 2007: Message edited by: Kevin_Laddle ]

quote:

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All parties have made the same -- yes the same -- public statements in the last couple of weeks.

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What has to be fully appreciated is that the Canadian Prime Minister has taken sides in a sectarian dispute. It would be no different if he declared Catholics terrorists at a meeting of the Orange Order or declared Armenians terrorists at a Turkish hall. He has signaled an acceptance of sectarian hatreds all over again.

The purpose of these sorts of sectarian hatreds, today, is the same as yesterday. To create scapegoats to be blamed and harangued and dispossessed.

There is likely not much chance of a holocaust as we witnessed in the 30s and 40s, but Islamic peoples will face wholesale slaughter, nevertheless, by the industrial war machines of Israel and the United States and perhaps with help from Canada.

And there will be great exhortations about democracy and civilization and the threat of Islam and how Arabs are subhuman or are inferior to Western Cultures and there will be denial after denial that their murders and subjugation have anything at all to do with the oil and gas, or water, beneath their desert lands.

And like the Good Germans who looked away in the 30s as their lifestyles improved with every departing cattle car, we will look away while gas prices for our cars and homes remain low enough to keep us driving to the suburbs and heating our McMansions.

And we will tell ourselves we are civilizing them with the tools of an industrial killing machine. And when the veil of sectarian racism is torn bare as it was with Harper so recently, we will pretend it wasn't true because if it were, we would have to face our own complicity in electing and supporting him. And we can't ever do that.

[ 20 February 2007: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]

quote:

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Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
Did Harper not describe Palestinians and Lebanese as "terrorists"? The only thing invented are the denials. And perhaps you might actually condemn the deaths of innocence when it occurs under Israeli arms. Just for once, you know?

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quote:

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Originally posted by ohara:
Um think this has been asked before but can you please point to exactly where Harper made such a comment. My memory is that your past example was not even close. So this time try to find where he actually said such a thing. It does social democrats no good to either make things up or try to extrapolate from nothing.

edited to add:

Just found the last time you made this assertion.

posted 10 February 2007 06:33 AM

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I can help you out. How about here?

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=296184ac-63d1-4dca-a85c-1552513c7490

Harper stands by his comment on Israel's 'measured' response

Or here?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060714.HARPER14/TPStory/TPInternational/America/

ON BOARD AIRBUS 001 -- Prime Minister Stephen Harper yesterday condemned the abduction of Israeli soldiers by Hamas and Hezbollah, saying he supported Israel's right to "defend itself" and characterized its response to the kidnappings as "measured."

Just for fun, how about here?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=ORC20060725&articleId=2821

Prime Minister Stephen Harper stated: “Israel’s response, under the circumstances, has been measured.”

quote:

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Originally posted by Kevin_Laddle:
In any case, the issue I want to discuss here is the lack of justice for the Canadians murdered by Israel last summer. If you don't care enough to bother discussing this, please go elsewhere.

[ 20 February 2007: Message edited by: Kevin_Laddle ]

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Then why did you attack Harper and his fundy connections as the reason? I am simply stating that all parties are as guilty as another regarding your opening post of no justice for Canadians murdered.

I have never once seen the liberal party, the bloc or the NDP stand up and call for a public inquiry.

quote:

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Originally posted by Kevin_Laddle:

I'm waiting you moral coward.

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Kevin, I already gave you your last warning in another thread.

quote:

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Originally posted by Village Idiot:

I can help you out. How about here?

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=296184ac-63d1-4dca-a85c- 1552513c7490

Harper stands by his comment on Israel's 'measured' response

Or here?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060714.HARPER14/TPStory/ TPInternational/America/

ON BOARD AIRBUS 001 -- Prime Minister Stephen Harper yesterday condemned the abduction of Israeli soldiers by Hamas and Hezbollah, saying he supported Israel's right to "defend itself" and characterized its response to the kidnappings as "measured."

Just for fun, how about here?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=ORC20060725&articleI d=2821

Prime Minister Stephen Harper stated: “Israel’s response, under the circumstances, has been measured.”

Hope this helps!!!

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This seems very much the case, for those well meaning supporters of Israeli apartheid, as they reach deep into their store rooms of stock defences that sound hollower and hollower with each passing year, in the face of Israel's obviouse racist abuse and almost daily murder of Arab peoples.

It took many years for the supporters of the USSR to give up their cherrished notions about the Socialist state, and admit to themselves the obvious truth. This is perhaps best charachterized as an expression of people's indomidable desire to hope for the best in defence of their cherrished ideals, even at the expense of reality in favour of delusion.

I think though, that the "particular kind of courage" that Serge spoke of was a deeper courage; not so much the courage to speak out against the grain of what ones collegues and friends believed, in the organizations that you had struggled for and belonged to, but actually the courage to admit the fallibility of your own beliefs, and the acceptance of your own failures, and even your own participation in the crimes themselves, if only through excusing the criminals.

[ 21 February 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

I have never heard Harper call anyone terrorists - the closest I have seen him come is:

"“Canada’s position is consistent with the position of the international community, which has been repeatedly calling for the dismantling and disarming of Hezbollah in south Lebanon. [It is] completely consistent with Canada’s values of supporting the right of a sovereign state to act in self-defence against a terrorist organization that is part of the world Islamic jihadist attempt to destroy the state of Israel.”"

http://www.cjnews.com/viewarticle.asp?id=9807

But then, many consider Hamas and Hizb'Allah to be terrorists...I tend to disagree. I, however, suffer from the same "deplorable moral equivalence" he seems so despairing of.

[ 21 February 2007: Message edited by: Village Idiot ]