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Author Topic: Forty Year Prison Sentence for Causing an Abortion
jeff house
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posted 07 June 2005 05:21 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Nineteen-year-old Gerardo Flores of Lufkin was sentenced to life in prison Monday in a landmark test case of a state fetal protection law. An Angelina County jury deliberated just under four hours, finding him guilty on two counts of capital murder for his part in killing his unborn twins.

His girlfriend wanted the abortion, but her parents didn't.

quote:
Flores' girlfriend, Erica Basoria, 17, was led sobbing from the Angelina County Courthouse by her mother and older sister. While her family testified against Flores, Basoria stood by his side, maintaining she was involved in causing the at-home miscarriage.

The girl was 16 weeks pregnant. Texas law requires an expensive hospital abortion after fifteen weeks.

The law also prevents the expecting woman from being charged or convicted, for any reason.

Tinyurl.com is your friend!

[Edited by Michelle to get rid of sidescroll.]

[ 07 June 2005: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Anchoress
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posted 07 June 2005 05:23 PM      Profile for Anchoress     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
This is not good news.

PS Jeff can you fix the sidescroll?


From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 07 June 2005 05:23 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If I were her, I'd never speak to my parents again. What jerks.

And also, this guy is a political prisoner and should be declared as such by every group that speaks up for him.

[ 07 June 2005: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
kuri
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posted 07 June 2005 05:36 PM      Profile for kuri   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

This is so ridiculous. I also simply can't believe that a professional would use such over-the-top maudlin language in court.

quote:
"Those babies could not raise their hands in self-defense to say, ‘No, Daddy, no, Daddy!'” Bauereiss said, emotion nearly choking his words. Basoria's family members sat a few rows behind him, tears rolling down their cheeks.

I imagine it may be typical of USian courts. But the emotionality in a professional setting that's supposed to be about abstract weighing of the facts seems really out of place and inflammatory.


From: an employer more progressive than rabble.ca | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 07 June 2005 05:40 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Oh those poor poor children, their lives held hostage for political gains.

And that poor boy now part of the prison system.

The girl will hate her family And be conflicted because she naturally loves them too.

Sick pukes in Texas


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
raccunk
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posted 07 June 2005 07:49 PM      Profile for raccunk     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Good grief. They are kids themselves. Of course, the US is known for giving juveniles adult sentences and sending them to adult prisons so it isn't that surprising. However I didn't realize the laws surrounding abortion in Texas were so draconian. It appears this might be something fairly new?? I had thought that even in the US abortion was legal up to 20 weeks. A 17 and a 19 year old are just out of childhood themselves and they probably didn't realize that such a thing would get one of them sent to prison for the next few decades. You would think there would be some realization of that. I was still a kid at 19 years.
From: Zobooland | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
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posted 07 June 2005 09:14 PM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Tragic.
From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
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posted 07 June 2005 10:50 PM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As terrible as this is, I'm not going to side with the young couple. Abortions by medical professionals are legal to DISCOURAGE the dangerous home-made kind. Did they realize what kind of danger they were putting the mother in?
From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Reality. Bites.
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posted 07 June 2005 10:51 PM      Profile for Reality. Bites.        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Gir Draxon:
As terrible as this is, I'm not going to side with the young couple.

Of course not. You always side with the thugs in power.


From: Gone for good | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
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posted 07 June 2005 10:57 PM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by RealityBites:

Of course not. You always side with the thugs in power.


If by thugs you mean the doctors who could perform the abortion instead of putting the mother in danger, then yes.


From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
pogge
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posted 07 June 2005 10:59 PM      Profile for pogge   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Gir Draxon:
Abortions by medical professionals are legal to DISCOURAGE the dangerous home-made kind.

This post at Political Animal will give you some background on how Texas has been making it more difficult to get those legal abortions by medical professionals.


From: Why is this a required field? | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
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posted 07 June 2005 11:00 PM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I am surprised Gir.

As the only persons that I know of who is posting on this thread that takes the position that the unborn babies represent little human beings who deserved to live even I grapple with how this can be justified.

I don't criticize her parents for testifying. I wouldn't have an issue with him being found guilty for his role in the abortion but the sentence is more troublesome.

All crimes look at the context. You would think that his youth, the perception that they were facing a crisis, the collaboration of the mother, the milieu that had been created by their panic over the pregnancy etc would have all be considered.

You would also think that that a justice system that is inclusive of such concepts as rehabilitation and the likelihood of someone re-engaging in crimes is considered it is hard to understand a 40 year sentence.

I think that you can recognize that two little lives were lost that day without believing that the best response to that is to incarcerate for 40 years a 19 year old man who made a profound error in judgement. I hope he appeals and that he finds a compassionate response and a more balanced sentence.

40 years? Gosh, Homalka didn't even get half that.


From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Anchoress
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posted 07 June 2005 11:08 PM      Profile for Anchoress     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yeah, Hailey. I've read about back-alley butchers who provide the dubious service of castrating men who were turned down for sex reassignment (or just couldn't wait for or pay for the surgery) who - despite often grossly misrepresenting the danger, pain and complications, and in some cases grievously and permanently injuring/damaging their 'patients' - get less than 1/10 of this sentence.
From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hailey
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posted 07 June 2005 11:10 PM      Profile for Hailey     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
who - despite often grossly misrepresenting the danger, pain and complications, and in some cases grievously and permanently injuring/damaging their 'patients' - get less than 1/10 of this sentence.

My goodness...there is a man out there..that would need back alley castration to be spelled out as permanently injurious? damaging? dangerous? painful?


From: candyland | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Anchoress
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posted 07 June 2005 11:13 PM      Profile for Anchoress     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
LOL yeah, it seems pretty obvious. But I mean permanent damage like having to wear a catheter in order to expel urine. Or permanent kidney damage due to septicaemia that was never treated because the butcher told the patient a 104 fever, gobs of pus and red streaks all over the torso were normal.
From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged
Vansterdam Kid
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posted 08 June 2005 04:46 AM      Profile for Vansterdam Kid   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Well yeah they should've went to a doctor, the question is did they have the opportunity? And Gir even if it is against the law you can't possibly think 40 years is reasonable. In any case this really isn't suprising consider that this is Texas, they execute the mentally retarted and put 12 year olds on death row.
From: bleh.... | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
mellowyellow
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posted 08 June 2005 05:40 AM      Profile for mellowyellow     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Basoria, then 16, was five months pregnant when Flores stepped on her bulging belly more than once the week before she gave birth prematurely in a bathroom at Flores' house the night of May 6, 2004. The defense said she hit herself at the same time, making it impossible to tell who killed the babies. Testimony alleged both may have wanted a miscarriage so the babies wouldn't infringe on college and social plans.


From: Salt Spring Island | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
kuri
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posted 08 June 2005 05:59 AM      Profile for kuri   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
That's a perfectly valid reason to have an abortion, mellow yellow. Any reason is valid because it's Basoria's body we're talking about and therefore her choice completely.

And yes, she should have gone to a doctor, but it shouldn't have been so difficult for her to do that. If it was, none of this would have ever happened and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.


From: an employer more progressive than rabble.ca | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
mellowyellow
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posted 08 June 2005 06:49 AM      Profile for mellowyellow     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I agree with you completely, Kurichina. The actions these two plucky youngsters are above reproach. Having to go to the prom while you're four months pregnant would, like, y'know, totally suck.

This terrible miscarriage of justice would never have taken place, if only a proper clinical abortion could have been obtained sooner.

... Like 16 years sooner.


From: Salt Spring Island | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
kuri
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posted 08 June 2005 06:56 AM      Profile for kuri   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 

(What more can be said? If you don't believe people have a right to control what happens to their bodies regardless of their motivations, then you don't believe in rights as they are normally conceptualized.)

[ 08 June 2005: Message edited by: kurichina ]


From: an employer more progressive than rabble.ca | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
skdadl
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posted 08 June 2005 07:35 AM      Profile for skdadl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
I agree with you completely, Kurichina. The actions these two plucky youngsters are above reproach.

mellowyellow, how can you say you agree with kurichina when you then directly contradict what she had just written in the post immediately preceding yours?

kurichina did not say that the two teenagers were "above reproach."

You were trying for irony, you say. Ah. Failure is such a sad thing to watch.


From: gone | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Volrath50
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posted 08 June 2005 10:42 AM      Profile for Volrath50     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't really have a problem with some sort of punishment for the crime, but even being mildly pro-life myself, I think that this prison sentence is way too much. 40years?! For a 19 year old? By the time he gets out he'll be an old man and will have spent 2/3 of his life behind bars. Just stupid.

They made a very bad mistake, but giving the guy 40 years for it is beyond my comprehension.

[ 08 June 2005: Message edited by: Volrath50 ]


From: Rural Southern Ontario | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Nikita
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posted 08 June 2005 11:44 AM      Profile for Nikita     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mellowyellow:
... Like 16 years sooner.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you implying Basoria herself should have been aborted when her mother was pregnant? If so, I don't understand how in hell that supports your argument. If I am totally off the mark, please correct me becuase I am puzzled by the remark.


From: Regina | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Albireo
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posted 08 June 2005 12:20 PM      Profile for Albireo     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I'm also a bit puzzled by the bold highlighting job in mellowyellow's 2nd-last post. Here is a different way to highlight that sentence:
quote:
Testimony alleged both may have wanted a miscarriage so the babies wouldn't infringe on college and social plans.

[ 08 June 2005: Message edited by: Albireo ]


From: --> . <-- | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
jeff house
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posted 08 June 2005 12:34 PM      Profile for jeff house     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Several posters have said the young people should have gotten an abortion from a doctor.

But Texas has a law which says that you must get an abortion in a hospital if the fetus has attained fifteen weeks development.

But hospital costs big money in Texas, likely many thousands of dollars.

The bottom line though, is this: they had a right to terminate the fetuses. They did so, but not in a hospital. Nonetheless, the woman was not injured; they aborted the fetuses successfully.

The man got forty years because the abortion was not performed in the proper place.


From: toronto | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
brebis noire
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posted 08 June 2005 12:50 PM      Profile for brebis noire     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Or he got forty years because he couldn't afford a proper lawyer?
(Shades of Stan Faulder, Canadian executed in Texas in 2000 after so many years of futile appeals and ineffectual protest...)

[ 08 June 2005: Message edited by: brebis noire ]


From: Quebec | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
Volrath50
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posted 08 June 2005 01:01 PM      Profile for Volrath50     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by jeff house:

But Texas has a law which says that you must get an abortion in a hospital if the fetus has attained fifteen weeks development.

But hospital costs big money in Texas, likely many thousands of dollars.


They really should have thought about that, and gotten the abortion before 15 weeks were up.

Waiting so long was a mistake, and doing it on their own was a big mistake. They pulled it off successfully one time, but it could have been quite harmful to the mother.

None of that warrants anything near 40 years though...


From: Rural Southern Ontario | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Gir Draxon
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posted 08 June 2005 04:17 PM      Profile for Gir Draxon     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Nikita:

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you implying Basoria herself should have been aborted when her mother was pregnant?


It probably would have made her mother's college and social plans easier...

[ 08 June 2005: Message edited by: Gir Draxon ]


From: Arkham Asylum | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Megan White
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posted 15 June 2005 11:27 AM      Profile for Megan White     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
the entire situation is simply tragic no matter what way you look at it. i think 40 years is ridiculous though. the kid made a mistake (some would say), that doesn't mean that he should put away for that long. most people don't get that much for murdering two adults.

whether or not you believe in abortions, it's absolutely ridiculous imo that some people seem to feel that killing a fetus is somehow as awful as killing a person.


From: Halifax | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
markhoffchaney
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posted 17 June 2005 07:28 PM      Profile for markhoffchaney     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What those kids needed was some resources, perhaps a mid-wife, someone with some idea's outside the mainstream.

http://www.sisterzeus.com/


From: winnipeg | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged

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