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Originally posted by VerbaTim:
Anybody noticed that they haven't released hybrid vehicles on light van chasses? And you won't for quite a while, either. Last thing we want is the family-class vehicles to consume less gas.

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If there was a gas-electric minivan, I would be there. Of course, the local mechanics here in small town Alberta might not be able to do some of the repairs right away, but hopefully it wouldn't break down until the technology to fix it make it to the sticks.

Right now, I have two vehicles for environmental and fiscal reasons, a minivan for family trips and a little ford 4-banger for when it's not the whole gang of us going someplace. I would sell them both in a flash to get a gas-electric big enough for everyone to ride in.

[ 26 August 2005: Message edited by: slimpikins ]

[ 26 August 2005: Message edited by: Michelle ]

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Originally posted by Rufus Polson:
Problem with hydrogen power is it requires a currently nonexistent infrastructure. Hybrids use gas. Pure electric (including battery, flywheel, compressed air) plug into outlets. In the present day, privately owning a hydrogen car would be essentially pointless. Fleets of buses or delivery vans, I won't say--anything where it might be workable to have one's own private fuel station. But real people, no.

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I think that is another thing that California is doing. It's my understanding that they are working to mandate (somehow) hydrogen fuel locations along major interstates (but don't quote me on that).

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Originally posted by SamuelC:

I think that is another thing that California is doing. It's my understanding that they are working to mandate (somehow) hydrogen fuel locations along major interstates (but don't quote me on that).

Personally, as a country, I think it would be worth the investment in the infrastructure. I'll support nearly anything to eliminate the Mid-East petro-chemical teat.

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Originally posted by vorlon:
At low speeds, when running on electric motors, hybrid cars are almost completely silent.

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Hydrogen, in fact, ain't a "fuel", but rather an energy carrier, converting say natural gas (or hydro wind, solar .... even nuclear power) into a hydrogen-powered cell or battery .

Mr. Geoffery Ballard, of Ballard Power himself is a proponent of "brown" hydrogen, that is to say using coal, nuclear power, etc. to spur on the development of a hydrogen economy.

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Originally posted by Panama Jack:
As for Hybrids, what about the cost (both economically and ecologically) of replacing the battery every 6 years ?

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That's a major issue for Toyota, which is why it has such a long warantee. They are doing a lot of research into it and predict the cost coming down in a few years.

You do bring up a big issue. You can't pull into any old gas station and get it serviced. If you run out of gas and drain the battery, you can't get a jump start or throw any old battery charger on it. The Prius is one of the most reliable cars available, but only specially trained Toyota technicians can work on it.

Since the Prius (and the limited amounts of Civic hybrids) hit the scene, all new hybrids are monster trucks coming out in green paint. now Lexus is marketing their hybrid not for its economy but for its fast acceleration.

The first maker who comes out with an economical hybrid hatchback will clean up.

On another note, why do our "technologically advanced" cars of today still can't match the VW Rabbit's fuel economy of the 70's (only the Prius beats it in the city - not highway)? And why no Smart car with a back seat in Canada?

I really think the relationship between the viagra men / "security" mums, big cars and big oil has got to stop.

I actually think the oil proce hike is a good thing and will hopefully end this romantic notion of driving a tank to work (that really is the ultimate dream of these neanderthralls)

Dr. Ballard also stated that it will be 20-30 years before the technology is invented to manufacture hydrogen fuel cells at a cost effective price.

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Originally posted by outlandist:

Dr. Ballard also stated that it will be 20-30 years before the technology is invented to manufacture hydrogen fuel cells at a cost effective price.

Until the technological concerns of hydrogen fuel manufacture are addressed,the energy inputs to create hydrogen will be greater than the energy outputs of the hydrogen itself. If hydro power is used to make hydrogen, there is no pollution transfer involved.

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In site specific cases, hydro can actually increase green house gas emissions. See this New Scientist article:
Hydro Power's Dirty Secret.

Besides, Canadian hydro potential, for political reasons, is pretty much maxed out, and is already in use for electricity production.

We'll have to giver with our feeble attempts at energy efficiency before we can really contemplate using our hydroelectric resources for hydrogen fuel conversion.

[ 28 August 2005: Message edited by: Panama Jack ]

Solar ,wind and other passive forms of energy have uses in personal, small scale energy generation. the drawback to this is a cost of 40 cents per KWH compared to 5-8 cents from the hydro grid.

As Ontario is now discovering,lack of foresight in planning for future power demand can be catastrophic.

Thanks for the site on CO2. Unless everyone is prepared to freeze in the dark,some type of compromise must be addressed in regard to energy use.

As far as the stealth mode goes. The escape also goes into stealth mode. both with the silent idle from the battery but also from the electric at low speeds.