Okay, divorced, with el crappo seperation agreement standing. Two kids, both in school. Ex-husband for entire three year seperation period has not paid full support. Finally went to a lawyer this year and had lawyer ask for income information, etc. Husband had been under-reporting income. He makes about $72000.00 per year. Refuses to pay any extraordinary expense costs (day-care) because he's been "more than generous". After a zillion letters, my lawyer finally advised me to take him to court.

I'm in the process of gathering my income tax information for the last three years, but tonight my ex-husband emailed me to say that he's been laid off (effective today!) and will let me know if and when he can pay support again.

I work for the same company as my ex-husband (different offices) and in August I was also told my job would be made redundant due to restructuring. However, they gave me an end-date for the end of the year, said it was policy to put me into a relocation 'pool' and offered a severence package (effective at the end date). I did manage to find work in the same company (four months ahead of end date) and just switched jobs.

Okay -- what are my ex-husband's obligations? Can he just simply stop paying ANY child support? Entirely?

I'm fairly nervous here as the child support has enabled us to live a bit above the brink of disaster. I can probably survive without it, but I certainly can't manage anything extra.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

My understanding of extra-ordinary expenses such as daycare is that they are to be shared in proportion to the distribution of income. In other words, if your husband's income is $70,000 and yours is $30,000, he would be responsible for 70% of the daycare costs.

Make sure you have legal representation. I represented myself against my ex earlier in the year and although the outcome was OK, it should have and could have been better. On the upside of that, though, I don't know that I would have received that much more with a lawyer than it would have cost me to have one. It would have saved me a lot of stress and distress and that's worth something.

Perhaps you qualify for legal aid? Or, if your agreement is already court registered, you can file it with Family Maintenance and they can go after him for current payment and arrears but you'd still have to go to court on the extra-ordinary expenses.

That's my understanding of things based on my experience. I'm in BC but most of this is covered by the Federal Child Support Guidelines.

Do you know if he has any obligation to continue paying some support even when he's out of work? I assume that he's getting some kind of severence -- only because I was offered severence and he's been there for ten years. And EI? I imagine that he will have an income stream -- even if reduced -- and I need to know if he's required to pay support out of that.

Or does he just get a free pass?

His email to me this evening certainly seemed to indicate that he wouldn't be giving me any support on the 15th.

[ 02 November 2005: Message edited by: Loretta ]

You have asked two interesting questions that your lawyer can answer:

1. Does he have to pay child support out of his severance? Yes, normally. If he is given (say) 10 months notice, does not get relocated, and takes 8 months lump sum payment, that's 8 months' pay during which he pays his full child support.

2. Can you get retroactive support? "He has been under-reporting income. For entire three year seperation period has not paid full support." Maybe. Especially if he gave you false information. If you simply didn't ask for enough, he may say "when she said $XXX was enough, I went out and bought a car that I couldn't have afforded if she had hit me for the full payments, so I relied on her position, and as a result, I can't afford retroactive payments." This is in the discretion of the court. My impression is the courts of the western provinces have been a bit better than the Ontario courts in giving parents full retroactivity. But there are new decisions on this point every week.

First, thanks for all of your advice. I have never had a court ordered arrangement and therefore can’t register with the FRO until I do. I may get some kind of retroactive award since the spring (which is when I first asked for proof of income, the correct base table amount, plus a percentage of extraordinary expenses). My lawyer at that time had recommended we attempt to write first and settle on an amount. My ex-husband first refused to provide income, then finally provided it (he had been under-reporting), then refused to pay for child-care costs because I was ‘failing my responsibilities to properly cloth the children’ (which was untrue) and ‘didn’t put enough emphasis on extra-curricular activities’. Then he responded by saying that I needed to go through the child-care subsidy program rather than ask him for his percentage. (Frantic phone calls to those offices assured me that my income alone would not determine my eligibility and things like having a car would entirely disqualify me.) After that he wrote back to my lawyer and explained that since he had put some of his income into RRSPs, it shouldn’t count as actual income.

So at that point my lawyer and I agreed that we needed to have a court order – my lawyer had advised me previously that giving my ex-husband many chances to comply would increase the odds of me being awarded costs for the litigation. (And to be absolutely fair to my lawyer, he charged me a flat $500.00 fee at the beginning of the process as he was confident that my ex-husband would be reasonable.)

My ex-husband’s girlfriend phoned me last night to talk about the situation. She basically asked for more time – time for my ex-husband to get a job and resume child support payments. He lives with her and her four children (from two previous relationships). [As far as I know they remain unaware that I had been intending to file.]

She told me that my ex-husband had had a very bad time with the lay-off and that because he had felt the severance package they were offering him was ‘insulting’ had refused to agree to it. She herself has been unemployed or working casually (read: no benefits, low wages) for some time. And she explained that she can’t get either of her ex-partners to pay any support for her children. “I know that it’s really important that he pay support, but please believe that he really can’t right now. I don’t know how we’re going to pay bills at the end of the month.”

Part of me is incredibly sympathetic. I don’t know this woman very well, but my children like her very much. I know that visitation with my ex-husband has improved immeasurably since she’s been on the scene. I’m grateful to her for making them welcome. I also sympathize with her on the financial front. I remember not having enough money. Her situation isn’t nearly as good as mine. I’m well-educated, I have good job experience, and when my own job was being made redundant in the summer, I had a lot of professional support from my boss and colleagues and was able to move into another job (same company) without any break in my income stream. I know that she’s struggling to make ends meet.

Another part of me is flat out furious. If I had been in the same position as my ex-husband, I would have taken any ‘insulting’ severance package because getting food on the table is a priority. I would also have not balked at paying a fair percentage of child-care costs in the first place. My income was fifty-five percent of my ex-husband’s, and because of tax adjustments, the amount he was asked to contribute was 33% of the actual cost of those expenses. I also feel a lot of sympathy for this woman because I remember, vividly, what it was like to live with and rely on my ex-husband. When we lived together, he told me time and again that he would be much better off, financially, if he didn’t have to support a family. This led to a lot of impulse purchase decisions on his part that seriously compromised my ability to buy groceries and pay necessary bills. I hate that he’s doing this to another person.

So, moral dilemma here.

I’m wealthy. In the years since the separation, though my household income has not been overly generous (in addition to my two kids, my boyfriend lives with us and survives on his graduate student stipend), I’ve been able to do well. I bought a reasonably reliable second-hand car and paid it off in a year and a half. Aside from that small car loan, I’ve never had debt. We always have groceries. We pay all of our bills on time. I’ve been able to put away a few thousand dollars in a savings account against any emergencies. There’s been a general sense of financial peace in the household. Realistically, I could rely on my savings and get us through the winter if my ex-husband did not resume child support payments.

Should I wait to file? I’m leaning that way. I feel strongly that my ex-husband has been irresponsible with his own money for a number of years, but as that’s in the past, I can’t figure out why I should now make things very uncomfortable for another woman and her children.

quote:

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Originally posted by saskatchewan:
“I know that it’s really important that he pay support, but please believe that he really can’t right now. I don’t know how we’re going to pay bills at the end of the month.”

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quote:

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Originally posted by saskatchewan:
Horrid new developments:

Should I wait to file? I’m leaning that way. I feel strongly that my ex-husband has been irresponsible with his own money for a number of years, but as that’s in the past, I can’t figure out why I should now make things very uncomfortable for another woman and her children.

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Fuck that. Your ex-husband has a financial obligation to your children. His girlfriend and her kids have nothing to do with it.

And Wilf, I did think of that possibility, but it seemed like an honest appeal. I do sincerely have nothing against this woman. As I said, she’s made life better for my kids. I believe her when she says they really can’t afford to do this right now. I remember not being able to afford very much at all when I lived with my ex-husband.

I will probably have to file. I don’t think I’ll be able to get a court date until late winter or early spring (even for an interim hearing) unless I do this very soon.

To be honest, if my ex had a decent relationship with my kids, I doubt I would have gone after an increase. It's one thing to know what should be done on principle, it's another to rock the boat when it comes to the well-being of your children. In my case, going to court risked nothing.