I dug this up from that other Bell Mobility phone thread. Please call or email today to complain. So far all complaints lodged so far have been ignored by Bell.

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[email protected]

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Greetings,

In case you have not heard yet, Bell Mobility has removed the ring tone we were advocating to get removed, "Woman Screams Don't Touch Me". I spoke with Bell Mobility's Corporate Communications Director this morning and they starting receiving a number of calls yesterday after we put the word out we were sending them a letter.

Thanks for all the support of individuals and agencies, both through telephone calls, emails and in-person. This truly made the difference in getting the ring tone removed so quickly.

A special thanks to the woman who brought this to our attention!

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Originally posted by skdadl:
Does anyone in that corporation have a functioning brain? Anyone?

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It's invariably in the "Hallowe'en" area, along with other horror movie samples.

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Originally posted by Judes:
Wow that was fast. It is unbelievable that they would put such a thing on their ring tones. What was someone thinking? It's kind of horrifying. You could understand some adolescent male thinking it was funny to have such a ring tone but you gotta wonder about Bell's creative department.

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I don't really know anything about ringtones, but I'm betting they're not created inhouse, but purchased from some kind of outside supplier contracted to provide x number of new ringtones each month or something like that.

I found this ringtone on at least a dozen different sites. Nobody's going to write them?

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Well, if a pattern can be established - how long before some kind of class suit might be worth mounting?

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A pattern of ringtone providers sampling from perfectly legal popular music and movies and making ringtones out of them?

I think you'll need to include Hollywood and the entire recording industry in that one.

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Originally posted by Mr. Magoo:
Wait a second... isn't it a bit early for the back-patting?

I found this ringtone on at least a dozen different sites. Nobody's going to write them?

Only Bell?

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Magoo, I seem to recall you trying this line of argument before.

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Yes. It was consistent then and it's consistent now. I'm consistent in my consistency.

If you're really worried about your neighbour getting their hands on one of these ringtones then you'll need to do more than choke off one of dozens of places they can get it, right?

Or is it possible that people are just using this as an excuse to carp about Bell? If that's the case then certainly there's no need to worry about the dozens of other websites providing this ringtone. We can assume it's harmless when it comes from them and focus our attention solely on Bell.

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For instance: Does it make a difference to you whether various kinds of crime are endorsed by (1) your local biker gang or (2) your federal government?

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Not really, if it's being endorsed by most of my neighbours and fellow citizens.

If "PimpTones" are bad, then surely you agree that the HipHop music they're sampled from is worse, no? It's certainly a hell of a lot more endemic.

And if this scream is misogynist, what of the movie it was sampled from? Do you not suppose many more people will experience the songs and the movies than the ringtones.

First of all, here's two words you should learn: Con-text. A woman screaming "Don't touch me" repeatedly on a crowded bus is much different than watching it on a horror movie. The "pimp-tones" are also out of context—in a hip-hop song, however offensive, they often speak for a voice in urban America that needs reckoning with. On the cell phone of a adolescent endorsed by a nationwide communications provider, it's out of context and perceived as normative and acceptable. Get it? Context.

I think it's fair to ssume that many of us spend far too much of our time addressing these issues which should have gone away along time ago ... and perhaps we can reciprocate and assume that Mr. Magoo has taken the time to contact those other websites and tell them off in a witty and biting way.

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I think you'll need to include Hollywood and the entire recording industry in that one.

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One difference is that people knowly enter a movie theatre to hear the tortured shrieks of bad actors. Hearing them on public transit or on the street is arguably a public safety concern.

Edited to add: much better expressed by Catchfire above.

[ 15 December 2005: Message edited by: F. ]

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A woman screaming "Don't touch me" repeatedly on a crowded bus is much different than watching it on a horror movie.

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It's doesn't matter if this ringtone goes off on a crowded bus does it?

If it did you'd need to get rid of the ringtone, not one vendor's sale of it. Right?

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The "pimp-tones" are also out of context—in a hip-hop song, however offensive, they often speak for a voice in urban America that needs reckoning with.

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The misogynist, fucked up voice? Ya, I'd agree there. Too bad nobody wanted to even consider "reckoning" with it.

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And we're not worried specifically about these ringtones being produced, we're worried about them being endorsed.

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And that's where you're off the rails. It's not a problem if someone makes them, if someone wants them or if someone uses them. It's only a problem if ONE COMPANY sells them?

That's beyond absurd.

Who's writing angry letters to MuchMusic for "endorsing" the songs that PimpTones come from? Nobody. Right? Nobody. So I have a hard time believing that it's really all about endorsing these things. Hate to tell you, but lots and lots of companies and organizations, from HMV and Sam the Record Man, to the Grammys, seem to endorse them. And nobody seems to care, except when it's Bell.

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I know there's lots of good righteous anger that has no place to go now, but I think you're blowing these ringtones a bit out of proportion in order to make a little hay

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That's right, girls! None of us would dare to do anything about sexism or misogyny outside of sending an email to Bell, or even just criticizing Bell on this site (I'm too timid to send an email to my betters.)

Certainly, I've never written to any other companies (say, American Outfitters or Coke or even my local MP and MPP and city councillor), or organized or participated in discussion groups or rallies and marches - not for "women's issues", and certainly not because of tuition fees or pesticide bans or same sex marriage.

And I certainly don't do things like get involved in politics, or sit on the board of a women's shelter. And none of the other women on this thread of site do either. No siree, bob, er, Magoo!

If Hip-hop is misogynist, it is misogynist in a politically unconscious way, which means it represents a culture in the western world. This means that it doesn't produce misogyny per se, but rather is representative of it. I'm not going to argue that hip-hop doesn't also perpetuate these ideals, but they are works of art; that is, they are active voices that other active voices should fight against.

A ringtone is not an active voice; it is a repository of cultural memory. It carries no constructive purpose. It is not art. I don't like the lyrics of eminem, but if he wants to sing them he can. He can even cross the border to do it. But don't expect me to buy his records. Bell is not selling records or active voices, it is selling empty consumerism. When Bell—which, despite your repeated attempts at simplification is not "ONE COMPANY" but the major telecommunications company in Canada—endorses a misogynistic view it's a much different thing than when an artist does it. It's Consumerism vs artistic expression. They are different things. If you don't agree, that's fine. Go write your letters, or write none at all. Fine with me.

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That's right, girls! None of us would dare to do anything about sexism or misogyny outside of sending an email to Bell, or even just criticizing Bell on this site (I'm too timid to send an email to my betters.)

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Ok, did you e-mail any other providers of this ringtone?

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Certainly, I've never written to any other companies (say, American Outfitters or Coke or even my local MP and MPP and city councillor), or organized or participated in discussion groups or rallies and marches - not for "women's issues", and certainly not because of tuition fees or pesticide bans or same sex marriage.

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That's all admirable, but they don't distribute this ringtone. If this ringtone is offensive to you you'll need to ensure that those who distribute it stop doing so. That means many more companies than just Bell.

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And I certainly don't do things like get involved in politics, or sit on the board of a women's shelter. And none of the other women on this thread of site do either. No siree, bob, er, Magoo!

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You're running away with yourself. I didn't suggest that nobody here is politically active. I'm pointing out that if this ringtone is truly offensive to you, and you want to do something about it, registering rage with one of many companies that distribute it is as absurd as suggesting that we must stop gun violence by banning .32 calibre guns. Not .45's, not .22's and not shotguns. We'll stomp it out by banning just one of many.

Does that make sense?

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Now that I've exhausted my righteous anger, and the hay is all gone, I'll just take off these socks and shoes, and get back to my pot roast. *ouch* (little junior is sure a kicker!) Sure is comfortable here in my place. Thank goodness someone managed to put me back here - that big ol' world out there is man business, not for us delicate womanly types with our silly "feminism".

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I've insinuated nothing of the sort. If you want to make barefoot and pregnant jokes at your own expense in the feminism forum, kindly leave me out of it. I'm not telling you or anyone else how to be a woman or a feminist. I'm pointing out the illogic of protesting ONE out of DOZENS of companies marketing (or in some cases, giving away free) something that you find offensive. Where you get the sense that your feminism or your womanhood is somehow under attack from the Penis Person is beyond me.

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I don't buy my music at major chains, but I did buy my internet and phone from Bell. And now they know why I don't anymore.

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Personally, I'm happy that for once there was a quick response to blatant misogyny.

And I think I can speak for a large number of people, both women and men, when I say that there have been a lot of complaints, and action, and activism, and letter-writing, and discussing, and debating, and being called overly sensitive, or humourless, or a bitch, and sometimes it's hellishly overwhelming, so it would be nice to be able to savour the moment just a teeny bit.

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But apparently instead we're being hypocritical for not taking on everything else that's sexist and misogynistic in society.

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It's not "everything else". It's the same ringtone.

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Originally posted by Mr. Magoo:

Is this the real purpose of this forum?

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The real point of this forum is to:

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Discuss feminist issues from a pro-feminist point of view.

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So what are you doing on this thread?

Oh, yeah, once again using the same tired arguments that no one bought the last time to piss all over anyone who takes any action that doesn't "deal with the root of the problem" as you define it. If I can't change the world, I better just shut the hell up. Better to tilt at windmills than have Magoo accuse me of hypocricy.

Go back and read the pimp tones thread if you once again need to be reminded why I think my email to Bell might change their behaviour. And oh wait - it did!

You might also want to get your story straight - I'm not fighting to "ban" this ring tone, or censor the movie that its from. I'm fighting to have it removed from Bell's catalogue. I don't want my phone company selling it, and I've told them so. You wanna start a thread on censorship? Do so - if I have time, I'll contribute.

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I'm pointing out that if this ringtone is truly offensive to you, and you want to do something about it...

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So, in other words, you're telling me how to live my feminism, and calling me a hypocrite if I don't live up to the ridiculous and impossible standards you set. Because obviously I'm not truly offended, and I don't actually want to do anything about it unless I do exactly what you tell me to do. And that's exactly what I call:

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telling you or anyone else how to be a woman or a feminist

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And, thanks, Tehanu, for reminding me of the good:

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Personally, I'm happy that for once there was a quick response to blatant misogyny.

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**edited to make clear I was responding to Magoo's utter and angering stupidity. But, since I didn't respond to ever single stupid post ever made in the history of babble, I'm probably not *truly* offended.**

[ 15 December 2005: Message edited by: swirrlygrrl ]

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Originally posted by swirrlygrrl:
Now that I've exhausted my righteous anger, and the hay is all gone, I'll just take off these socks and shoes, and get back to my pot roast. *ouch* (little junior is sure a kicker!)

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Originally posted by skdadl:
Well, if a pattern can be established - how long before some kind of class suit might be worth mounting?

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Based on what?

Whoops, I didn't read the whole thread through before posting this. So, please don't take this question in the context of the discussion that occurred since the post I quoted.

All I'm saying is, I think a class suit is not only not worth mounting, but undesireable. I think there is no basis for it.

[ 15 December 2005: Message edited by: Michelle ]

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But seriously Skdadl, you've had a chip on your shoulder for Bell for much longer than there've been PimpTones or this scream to explain it. Any chance you're willing to be honest about that? I seem to recall a long-ago thread where you pretty much wanted them beaten in the street for allowing telemarketers to call you or some similar. Ring any bells? (pun intended).

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My. How very nasty, suddenly personal, and demonstrably wrong. Mr M thinks I in particular have "a chip on my shoulder" and further that I am dishonest. If we were in the Commons, the Speaker would ask him to retract at least one of those lines.

There is obviously at least one post of mine you don't recall (and gee, that's going to turn into a fun game if it gets started, eh?). I have been thinking about the telecoms and their tremendous political influence as well as their attitudes towards consumers since I first worked on the papers of the Macdonald Commission in the mid-1980s, and then on a detailed scholarly study specifically of the telecoms a decade later. What I learned about them has certainly influenced my politics, and if you want to call that "a chip on my shoulder" then you go right ahead, but I suspect others would call my attitudes something more like political analysis and principle. Believe me: I think about a lot more than their ringtones.

And if you want to call me dishonest, then I think you are helping to destroy the culture of this board.

swirrly, you're a hoot.

Michelle, I said pursue: I didn't say how far.

Obviously, I believe that anything citizens can do to impress on the large corpses, especially those that are part of multinational networks, that there is a human logic not being taken into account in their neo-lib ideological frameworks (and demonstrably, they have those) is important to do. I don't exactly expect to reform Bell, or not in the first place; but I do expect that challenges to neo-liberalism can help to change the political culture of this country. And an action like this one, on such a self-evidently justified basis, is an important educational jolt for everyone who learns of it, maybe even the executives at Bell, who, God knows, seem to have been having just so many educational opportunities lately.

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I'm not fighting to "ban" this ring tone, or censor the movie that its from. I'm fighting to have it removed from Bell's catalogue. I don't want my phone company selling it, and I've told them so.

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This, I suspect, for a majority of the pissed off, is the main case that perhaps Magoo fails to realize. They (and I for that matter) do not want THEIR phone company offering these tones because they do not wish to deal with a company that does such a thing. Given that it is a legal tone, from a legal outlet such as a movie or song, a class action suit is absurd in contemplation but everyone has the right to demand whatever ethical line or conduct from the companies that they do business with. The companies have the right to do as they like as well but without that person as a customer.

1. Big company A sells objectionable product B.
2. Little company C also sells B.
3. OMG! A and C are the SAME!

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Originally posted by Mandos:
Magoo is just Magooifying. His argument is

1. Big company A sells objectionable product B.
2. Little company C also sells B.
3. OMG! A and C are the SAME!

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When did Rogers become a little company?

According to this 2003 article on news.com

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Rogers and Bell both have 3.3 million subscribers, and share the No. 1 slot in terms of numbers of subscribers. Second is Telus Mobility with 3 million subscribers. In fourth place is Fido, the wireless arm of Microcell, which has about 1.2 million subscribers.

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This, I suspect, for a majority of the pissed off, is the main case that perhaps Magoo fails to realize.

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It's not that I "fail to realize" it. It's that we're also, apparently, talking about what would happen if this ringtone went off on a crowded bus.

That seems to me, and please feel free and jump right in if I'm wrong here, to be a potential problem with the ringtone itself. Quite separate and distinct from who's making it available for download.

If that's not any part of the issue then better it not be tossed in to mix things up.

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1. Big company A sells objectionable product B.
2. Little company C also sells B.
3. OMG! A and C are the SAME!

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The companies aren't "the same", though I really don't see how they're morally any different (because one is bigger??)

But B is the same, isn't it? And if B is still a problem on its own merits, then it's still a problem, isn't it? The relative sizes of A and C have no effect on the morality of B, nor any potential problems it may cause.

There appears to be two problems here: one is the fact that Canada's favourite phone company is marketing an objectionable product. The other is the product itself.

Sorry if you think this is "Magooing", but I can't see how getting one company to stop distributing the product deals with that second problem, and I don't see why it's so incredibly controversial that I'm pointing this out.

Also, I really don't see how it's in any way anti-feminist or against the mandate of this forum to point it out.

ed'd to add: just for the record, it was the suggestion that maybe there should be a class action lawsuit against Bell for this that kind of made this look like a Bell witch hunt. I mean, seriously. A class action lawsuit? How bad do you have to have it in for Bell before you'd suggest such a thing??

[ 16 December 2005: Message edited by: Mr. Magoo ]

One is the objectionable ringtone itself.

The other is the distribution (and implicit endorsement) of the objectionable ring tone by Bell.

The ringtone doesn't become any less objectionable because Bell doesn't distribute it, but forcing Bell not to distribute it removes the implicit approval of it by a mainstream source. We can be pleased that Bell is no longer making money off the objectionable ringtone while acknowledging that it's pretty much impossible to wipe it out of existance. Just because it can't be completely eradicated doesn't mean that it's not an achievement for Bell not to profit from it.

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Originally posted by andrean:
Yes, if people desperately want that ringtone, they'll find other sources for it. It just won't be a major player in Canadian telecommunications.

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Originally posted by Bacchus:
Given that it is a legal tone, from a legal outlet such as a movie or song, a class action suit is absurd in contemplation but everyone has the right to demand whatever ethical line or conduct from the companies that they do business with. The companies have the right to do as they like as well but without that person as a customer.

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Originally posted by Contrarian:
Do Rogers or Telus have a screaming woman ring-tone? If not, why are they being brought into this at all?

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According to Magoo, they do:

Do you buy them from Rogers, who endorse the same stuff through a different cultural repository called "Much Music"?

He did not say that Telus had it as a ringtone; he or someone brought Telus into it while arguing about size - on a feminism thread

[ 16 December 2005: Message edited by: Contrarian ]

Pimp Anthem
Pimp In The Building
Pimp Matrix
Pimp Phone Ringing
Pimp, Pick Up!

I'm at work, so I'm not going to listen to them!

I couldn't find it on MuchMusic either, but they do have this graphic for download to their phones. Muchmusic offers prepaid phone service marketed to young people, through Rogers. Virgin Mobile does the same through Bell.

I couldn't get into the Telus ringtones without being a customer.

[ 16 December 2005: Message edited by: RealityBites ]

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Originally posted by Contrarian:
Yes, he talked about MuchMusic; I guess he is concerned that someone might carry a TV set onto a bus and that the TV might have a woman screaming on it, which would disturbe the other passengers.
[ 16 December 2005: Message edited by: Contrarian ]

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And Cingular has it with added organ music.

[ 16 December 2005: Message edited by: Mr. Magoo ]