I need an income. I need to go to work in order for my employer to provide me with that income. If I do not show up for work, I will lose my job and therefore my income. Right now it is almost midnight, and can't get away with waking up any later than 5:30 am in order to go to work. This is going to make me very unhappy in a few hours. But I am still going to get up and go because, as I have just explained, I need to go to work.

Why? Because I like the routine of working, I like getting up in the morning, and I like my job. The fact that I get paid fairly and treated well gives me the incentive to go in every day.

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Originally posted by Michelle:

Most people like working if they aren't treated like shit at their workplace or screwed over financially by their employers.

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I did a lot of unpaid volunteer translation last year, despite my misgivings about ever doing that, because I was involved in a refugee status struggle - and the refugee in question is the partner of a friend. Although that is yet another example of women getting caught up in unpaid work - highly technical legal translation in this case - I do have the satisfaction that we won our cause.

If you're someone working in a job you don't like, and would not be there if it were not for the fact that you were forced to work or starve, then maybe you're not being as productive as you would be if you were in a job that you looked forward to going to in the morning?

Before I continue, let me say that I am a very staunch union supporter and feel the main reason for the existence of unions today is because the employer took advantage of the worker in every way imaginable. I agree if the employer had been reasonably fair and equitable with his employees, there probably would not be any unions today, because the worker would be much happier in their jobs and would have not seen a reason to unionize. But greed being what it is, caused the employer to take advantage of his or her employees.

That being said, greed is NOT solely a vice of the rich employers. Just like employers who after a while they tend to feel they have some special entitlement because they provide jobs in a community, so to do many working people fall prey to the same vices. So to assume people will always be self motivated if they are guaranteed an annual income is naive.

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Originally posted by Gir Draxon:
Suppose my need for an income was guaranteed by the government and that I am also guaranteed a job. Then I am no longer at the mercy of my employer- simply put, I would not have to show up for work tommorow simply because I don't feel like it. I could remain secure in the knowledge that I have nothing to lose because whatever I would no longer get from the corporation would be covered by the government.

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First of all, this is a false dichotomy. A guaranteed annual income only provides a minimum income necessary to meet all human beings' basic necessities.

People would continue to work because it gives them the opportunity to enjoy the fruits of their labour, both intrinsic (i.e. many people like their jobs and draw satisfaction from what they accomplish there) and extrinsic (i.e. the opportunity to make more money than the minimum and buy the luxuries they would like to enjoy).

Second of all, I don't know about you, but I do not do my best work when I am threatened with death or deprivation. I find that unduly stressful. As several other posters have pointed out above, it all depends on what you believe about yourself and other people. If you believe that you are inherently bad or lazy, you would probably think that without the threat of imminent poverty, you would no longer work. But if you believe you have inherent worth as a person and you are ambitious, then without the "discipline" of unemployment to hold you down, you would also have a chance to soar.

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Originally posted by virge47:
The former Soviet Union took away all incentive to work and as a result it collapsed mainly because no person cared.

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I don't think that's really why the Soviet Union collapsed but I think I will let someone else take a run at this canard. Is Fidel around?

[ 10 April 2006: Message edited by: robbie_dee ]

Our problems lie in the fact that large corporations who control the government and as a result make policy in favor of big corporations, is the root of the problem.

Free trade is the biggest hoax ever foisted on the public. It was sold to people as the answer to prosperity and a comfortable lifestyle, when the fact is free trade is ONLY free for the corporations. Free Trade with countries of similar standards of living will work but NOT with countries such as China and India as they are being conducted today is the root cause of many of our problems today.

It is ludicrous to think that a country such as the U.S. or Canada for example with a higher standard of living then say China, which pays their workforce slave wages, with NO benefits to name a few differences will compete on a level playing field.

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A guaranteed annual income only provides a minimum income necessary to meet all human beings' basic necessities.

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I make considerably more than $15hr and a LOT less than 30k a year. The same applies to many other freelancers.

At my age, I also have a slight handicap (arthritis in an ankle) that would prevent me from doing the kind of low-wage jobs that I'd managed to survive on as a young person (such as working in a bookshop) as while I can walk all day, I can't stand for hours without moving. That is the case for many people.

So, some people bandy-about $30k as a GAI? Well then, by all means, let's dismiss it as a point of discussion altogether! btw: I hear that some socialists are actually Stalinists! forget "socialism"! And some liberal-capitalists think that Pinochet was a good guy! Forget "liberal-capitalism"!

I hear that some environmentalists are crazy! Forget environmentalists!

This trend has spread even to the social services and health sector, where a lot of workers are on call or temporary forever. And there are a lot of temporary instructors at colleges and universities.

There is nothing about it that is real or necessary. Its just another ideology that only serves those at the top of its hierarchy while needlessly exploiting everyone else. It exists primarily in our minds.