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Topic: This forum
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skdadl
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 478
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posted 14 October 2003 03:13 PM
I'm going to do this anonymously -- well, I mean, you can see that I'm me, but I won't name any other names.I've had an interesting experience today. I've had a couple of PMs from women, feminist women, not long-time or regular posters to babble, who are confused/unhappy with this forum. They see the mandate (look to the left of the main screen): Discuss feminist issues from a pro-feminist point of view. Then they read some recent discussions. As one wrote to me: Raise a feminist issue, and at once! the focus is suddenly back on how unfair women are to men, or some variation on that theme. In the past, a few people have ended up defending the mandate of this forum very vigorously. I think, eg, especially of judym, who was so good at driving away the "But what about ME?" crowd all by herself. Shall we do it again, grils?
From: gone | Registered: May 2001
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Mr. Magoo
guilty-pleasure
Babbler # 3469
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posted 14 October 2003 04:20 PM
Or better yet, a "Gender" forum, where everyone (trolls included) can discuss gendered issues that don't necessarily fit best in Feminism, or about which there may be opinions that are not specifically "feminist". Problem is, interesting ideas come up here that drift away from the forum's mandate, but there's no better place for some of it to go.
From: ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø,¸_¸,ø¤°°¤ø, | Registered: Dec 2002
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Internet Devil
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4554
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posted 14 October 2003 04:55 PM
quote: Originally posted by Madame X: No. Controversy for the sake of controversy gets boring fast and not all of us are looking for the excitement that can only come by focusing on men's issues. Now if discussion on feminist issues in a feminist forum could be discussed without the attention focusing on men's needs and how evil and finished the feminist movement is. That would be interesting. Do I see it happening here? Nope.
Actually, many areas of interest do intersect. Like forensic psychology and dynamics of abuse. Mental abuse can not be measured by numbers at all.
From: USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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Internet Devil
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4554
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posted 14 October 2003 06:04 PM
quote: Originally posted by Madame X: I see a group of feminists with all the best intentions falling into place exactly where the antifeminists want them.
I do not know. I do not think anyone -- feminist or antifeminist can influence the world from a message board. If I wanted to influence our society I should have been a lawyer. But I did not have a chance, and now I am too old to change my career.
From: USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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Internet Devil
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4554
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posted 14 October 2003 06:28 PM
quote: Originally posted by Madame X: How do you define "world" ?
The society. For instance if I write on a message board that Texas justice system is too severe, nothing will change. But had I not been psychologically forced into a job I do not like, I would have been a lawyer since '93. Then I would have saved many real peoplew from prison.
From: USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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athena_dreaming
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4574
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posted 21 October 2003 02:06 PM
It's the most amazing thing. In my two-year Babble sabbatical, I've participated in tons of other online communities, and they were--astoundingly--troll-free.These communities included a few yahoo groups with tightly moderated membership lists, and most recently, a handful of wide-open bulletin boards for women who are trying to or in the process of starting families. Astounding that, isn't it? Web communities for pregnant women and mothers in traditional relationships were *never*, IME, the victim of troll attacks. Nobody came on-line to berate and educate women struggling with fertility issues on how selfish they were, and how they ought to adopt. No one came to question how anyone could be so terrible as to bring a child into a world like this. No one came online to say "How could you start a family, don't you know what you will do to your career, what are you doing to the cause of equality?" No one questioned their choices in relationships or sexuality. It seems women doing what women are "supposed" to do are not targets of trolling. Yet every feminist community I've ever been a part of has been targetted by repeated and on-going troll attacks. Hmm.... I also spent some time over the past few years researching the phenomenon of trolling. When I started I expected I would find some tips and tricks to deal with trolls. I believed, and expected to find, that trolls are mostly people who find communities that discuss issues they disagree with and are so filled with righteous rage they just can't stop themselves from trying to correct the silly heathens. What I actually found was a community of people who spend all their free time composing messages to post on-line and generate as much disruption and argument as possible. Recreational trolls generally present themselves as people of different ideological backgrounds who honestly want to exchange ideas in debate; they post information which is known to be incorrect but not wildly so in order to generate responses; and they get points from other trolls for the number of posts they receive in response. Below is an article on trolling in feminist communities, and why feminist communities are especially vulnerable to trolls, as well as two FAQs written for people who are or want to be trolls. An article on trolling in feminist communities: http://www.slis.indiana.edu/CSI/WP/WP02-03B.html The FAQ for Trolls: http://www.urban75.com/Mag/troll.html Another troll FAQ: http://world.std.com/~Infinity/rightloop/alttrollFAQ.htm This may be old news to most of you. I offer it to those who believe that trolls are who they say they are. THey're not. Anything you post in response to a troll is a notch on their bedpost; it could be "I hate you you're a poopyhead," doesn't matter, it's a point. It could be "this is a troll, do not respond," doesn't matter, it's a point. It could be "wonderful! I agree totally!" doesn't matter, it's a point. Thoughtful line-by-line refutations composed of facts and sources are worth lots of points to a troll. The ultimate goal of a recreational troll is to disrupt a community and drag its debate away from its stated goals, preferably by baiting members into posting flames and/or engaging them in a seemingly reasonable debate that somehow never gets resolved or back on course. It is, of course, very difficult to distinguish people who genuinely have different political views and really just do want to talk about it from recreational trolls. I can only suggest that if, after a few posts, the debate seems to be growing more *un*reasonable--if there is no acknowledgement of facts, sources, arguments--if it comes to resemble an Escher drawing and you can't make heads or tails of what is going on--then you are almost certainly dealing with a troll who gains in status in his community every time you post a reply to him or even acknowledge his presence. AGain, if this is old hat, I apologize. And sorry for how long this is!
From: Toronto | Registered: Oct 2003
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