quote:

---

The U.S. military has launched an air strike against suspected members of al-Qaeda in Somalia, according to reports.

CBS reported Monday that an Air Force AC-130 gunship led the attack against the site at the southern tip of Somalia. The gunship flew from its base in Djibouti down to the southern tip of Somalia.

The targets included the senior al-Qaeda leader in East Africa, and an al-Qaeda operative wanted for his involvement in the 1998 bombings of the American embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. [...]

There was no confirmation that either of the al-Qaeda targets had been killed in the strike.[...]

The AC-130 gunship is capable of firing thousands of rounds per second, and sources say many bodies were seen on the ground after the strike, but there is as of yet, no confirmation of the identities, CBS reported.

---

If they run, they're terrorists. If they don't run, they're well-disciplined terrorists.

Or perhaps Communist guerrillas. [That buzzword was pretty well confined to South-East Asia, including Philippines, Indonesia, etc.]

Would you believe, pro-Syrian opposition forces? No, wait, that's only in Lebanon...

Iran-backed militias?

quote:

---

Neoconservatives have called for World War IV against Islam. In Commentary magazine Norman Podhoretz called for the cultural genocide of Islamic peoples. The war is already opened on four fronts: Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia, and Iran.

The Bush administration has used its Ethiopian proxies to overthrow the Somalian Muslims who overthrew the warlords who drove the US from Somalia. The US Navy and US intelligence are actively engaged with the Ethiopian troops in efforts to hunt down and capture or kill the Somalian Muslims. US Embasy spokesman Robert Kerr in Nairobi said that the US has the right to pursue Somalia's Islamists as part of the war on terror. -PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS -Counterpunch

---

"So many dead people were lying in the area. We do not know who is who, but the raid was a success," interim government spokesman Abdirahman Dinari told AFP news agency about Monday's raids.

So...I went back to relink this, but guess what!? It's Gone.

quote:

---

Originally posted by unionist:
On balance, I still figure they're Taliban.

---

Yes, the article from BBC noted they had gotten the 4 year old Taliban master mind, and his council.

quote:

---

"My four-year-old boy was killed in the strike," Mohamed Mahmud Burale told the BBC from the area.

Local MP Abdulkadir Haji Mohamoud Dhagane told the BBC that 27 people, mostly civilians, had been killed near Afmadow.

---

According to Somalia's New Government™ "the US has a right to bombard terrorist suspects who attacked its embassies in Kenya and Tanzania."

quote:

---

Originally posted by Boom Boom:
Excellent coverage on this story tonight on The National, exposing how the US has its tentacles everywhere in this region. And, one of the world's largest battleships, the US carrier Dwight Eisenhower, anchored offshore, some very big business being hinted at in the National segment.

---

Yes, it was good, people should definitely view the broadcast here. I am glad to see they snuck it passed Harper's censoring machine as I am sure he would not have been on board with what they said against the USA's actions.

quote:

---

Originally posted by remind:

Yes, it was good, people should definitely view the broadcast here. I am glad to see they snuck it passed Harper's censoring machine as I am sure he would not have been on board with what they said against the USA's actions.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Boom Boom:
Imagine - the CBC is getting radical chic!

---

quote:

---

The US has launched attacks against southern Somalia with airstrikes from helicopters and AC-130 gunships. Reports say that dozens of people are dead.

The official justification for the attack was to kill an alleged Al-Qaeda cell in the country. As with Iraq, where the links between Saddam Hussein and the Al-Qaeda network were never established. This new assault is another attempt to disguise US interests behind the convenient bogeyman of terrorism. There is no proof that Al-Qaeda is working with the Islamic Courts Union (ICU) who are the real threat to US interests in the region and the main target of this assault.

Somalia, after years of lawlessness and the rule of clan warlords, finally achieved peace when the ICU entered the scene and took most of the country by July of 2006. For most Somalis the ICU victory represented the first steps to peace in more than 15 years. In Mogadishu, a city described as one of the most violent places on earth, shops were opened, the airport was in operation after 5 years and the port re-opened after 8 years. Freedom of mobility was now an option. The business community welcomed the new regime, as did the population. On June 18, a hundred thousand Somalis rallied in Mogadishu carrying signs reading "Support The Islamic Courts Union" and "America Open Your Eyes - Down with the Warlord Government".

The US could not allow this to happen. The mass media in Canada, always fearful of context in their reporting, has said that the US was concerned about the development of an Islamic government. This statement conveniently misses the fact that the US is quite supportive of Islamic governments in places like Saudi Arabia.

What they were really concerned with is a government hostile to US interests in such a strategic location as the horn of Africa, at the mouth of the Red Sea and the gateway to the Suez Canal and the Middle East. The fact that oil deposits have recently been discovered in Somalia was an added incentive for US intervention.

The ICU is also a threat to the US interests for the ideas that it represents. The fact that the ICU has been able to lead a country, divided along clan lines, and create a unified opposition to the US-supported Interim government is a threat in itself. But the fact that these formerly disparate groups have been unified under the banner of Islam with a non-sectarian leadership is even more damaging to the US plan for division of the Middle East along sectarian lines.

On July 20th, Ethiopian troops entered the southern Somali town of Baidoa to support Abdullahi Yusuf, a former warlord leader and the hand-picked president of the UN-sponsored interim government. Ethiopia, a firm US ally in the region and recipient of massive amounts of US military aid, was quick to act. Snatching war from the jaws of peace, the US and its local puppet regimes have once again condemned the people to violence and chaos.

Somalia was not a failed state except while under the Interim Government which never enjoyed the support of the people. After the UN Security Council passed resolution 1752 calling for foreign intervention in Somalia, thousands once again demonstrated in Mogadishu stadium under the banner "Why Do We Need Foreign Intervention When Somalia Is In Peace"?

The parallels between Somalia and Afghanistan are numerous. In both cases a US backed warlord government is being opposed by the people of the country because of growing popular discontent with constant violence and instability. Either way US meddling has once again destroyed the chance of peace and self-determination for the people of Somalia.

This is yet another aggressive act by the US which further threatens to destabilize the Horn of Africa and the Middle East. The peace movement calls on the government of Canada to condemn this action by the US and its regional allies, oppose any foreign intervention, and work for genuine self-determination for the people of Somalia.

---

[ 11 January 2007: Message edited by: M. Spector ]

[ 11 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

quote:

---

Air attacks against fugitive Islamists in south Somalia in recent days have mistakenly targeted nomadic herdsmen gathering round fires, killing 70, British-based aid agency Oxfam said on Friday.

"Under international law, there is a duty to distinguish between military and civilian targets," Oxfam added, citing its local partner organisations in Somalia for the information ...

"According to the reports from local organisations in Afmadow district, bombs have hit vital water sources as well as large groups of nomads and their animals who had gathered round large fires at night to ward off mosquitoes.

"Further reports have also confirmed that bombings have claimed the lives of 70 people in the district."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by jeff house:
Does the Communist Party have a different line?

---

Specifically, I don't know. However they do send me e-mail occassionally, which I very occassionally read. The only issue of theirs that I watched with any interest was the ones where they were challenging the election laws on the rights of smaller parties on constitutional grounds.

I once dated a girl from the CPC, does that count? She was an extremely horny lass, I was a horny lad. Things worked out well, but she eventually moved to South Africa and married a guy from the ANC, whom it is said beat her mercilesly.

That said, it is true that when the CPA was under the heavy influence of the CPC, before it was taken over by the IS, I think the politics were a little less of this simplistic all roads lead to US-bad-bad (chocker-block) imperialist stuff, and the statements a little more subtle, simpler and less reliant on having a shared ideological framework of "known assumptions," necessary for proper interpretation of the meaning of the text, as I remember it.

Molases-like idiosyncratic phrasing such as this was far less likely to appear;

quote:

---

The US could not allow this to happen. The mass media in Canada, always fearful of context in their reporting, has said that the US was concerned about the development of an Islamic government. This statement conveniently misses the fact that the US is quite supportive of Islamic governments in places like Saudi Arabia.

---

BTW, did Joseph McCarthy ever publish a book on Red-Baiting, or do you just make it up as you go along? If he didn't, perhaps you should think of writing one, you could call it: How to be a Scumbag.

[ 12 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cueball:
That said, it is true that when the CPA was under the heavy influence of the CPC, before it was taken over by the IS, I think the politics were a little less of this simplistic all roads lead to US-bad-bad (chocker-block) imperialist stuff, and the statements a little more subtle, simpler and less reliant on having a shared ideological framework of "known assumptions," necessary for proper interpretation of the meaning of the text, as I remember it.

---

The Canadian Peace Alliance, founded in 1985, has never been under the heavy influence of the CP, and is not now a captive of the IS or any other left tendency. It is a broad coalition of groups opposed to the war.

I don't think anyone who was actually there when the group was founded, or particiapted in the process would deny it, even the horny lass who went to South Africa.

As for the present IS involvement Sid Lacombe campaign co-ordinator for the CPA is an fairly prominent member of the IS. He is more likely than not the primary author of the above release.

Sid is quite open about being a member of the IS.

Sid Lacombe International Socialists

What Jeff is doing is baiting, what I am doing is telling the truth. The difference is that I name names and present evidence to support what I am saying. Funny that a "humand rights" Lawyer would has so little regard for those little nicities.

[ 12 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cueball:
The difference is that I name names and present evidence to support what I am saying.

---

Then, later, he went after people based on vague allegations, without corroborative evidence. The so-called House of Un-American Activities Committee. There they asked people, "if" they were communists, because they had no real information about them whatsoever.

My statement of fact, is that Sid Lacombe is a member of the International Socialists, as well as the campaign co-ordinator of the CPA. This is public knowledge, and something Sid is not hiding in any way shape or form.

If you don't believe me, call him and ask him. The number is on the press release. I am sure that he will tell you that he is in the IS.

[ 12 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

And in this case I am not "outing" anyone, as it is a fact that Sid Lacombe is a member of the IS, he speaks often as representative of the IS, and also pften as the Campaign Co-ordinator of the CPA.

This is public knowledge, and if Sid were afraid of his IS conection being a liability in his professional position, I am sure he would avoid letting it be known. Apparently he is not afraid of this.

Good for him.

[ 12 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

(historical reference)
Nazi Germany, marching into Poland
Soviet Russia, flattening a disobedient client state.

quote:

---

I'm going to ask as a favour that you please lay off "identifying" who belongs to which group or whatever. It is irrelevant at best (because I think you'll agree that people's stands matter more than their affiliation

---

I read that and thought, only a public stand matters, and then I thought this is another great discussion to be having in the comfort of anonymity.

I think it is important to have anonymity on a forum like babble as babble is like debating school and not everything one says here would be repeated after sober second thought, or in the glare of a bright reality. But there is a need for the ability to debate ideas without the normal limits of public discourse.

But with that said, if we all refrain from taking public stands where our beliefs may be subject to public review, then we all lose.

[ 12 January 2007: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:

But with that said, if we all refrain from taking public stands where our beliefs may be subject to public review, then we all lose.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
You said, if I cut and pasted you correctly, "please lay off 'identifying' who belongs to which group or whatever" with respect to people taking public positions. I thought it unfortunate people taking public positions might be afraid of having their affiliations exposed.

---

Who said they're afraid? I said their affiliation is irrelevant.

If the CEO of the Bank of Montreal says, "let's stay in Afghanistan", and you reply: "Oh, she's Jewish", or "Oh, she's a member of the NDP", or "Oh, he's a member of the Communist Party", or "Oh, he's openly gay", or whatever -

What actually concerns me here, more than anything else, is the apparent assumption that there is something essentially wrong with having an IS person on staff in your organization, and that this is something that should be hushed up.

My point was more that the tenor of the CPA releases has shifted somewhat into that particularly tone and style common in IS periodicals, and I am not sure that is a good thing. The need to explain and denounce every last detail, and nuance of the event, from US imprialism, to the perfidy of the mainstream media.

It seems to me that in the days of yore when the CPA shop was run by others such as Sheana Lambert, CPA releases were more palatable in the mainstream discourse, and ultimately landed press more effectively.

It seems to me, that the point of having broad based coalitions, is not so much to articulate specific ideological positions, but to target a broad base of people who are generally, but not specifically aligned.

What is clear and evident to us here, is not necessarily so to everyone, and a softer touch is sometimes required.

While there might be a great deal that is of value in this release, it hardly seems to me wise to be posting off a blast of grape shot at the mainstream Canadian press, when in fact it seems to me that the mainstream Canadian press would be one of the primary targets of this release, and in the long run it is probably best to try to enlist their support in whatever margins of space there is available left for protest with the pages of our media institutions.

Was it really necessary to make this point, in this release about Somalia. I don't think so. It merely clutters the essential points.

It is not as if the Toronto Star, for instance, does not publish people like Lynda McQuaig and Haroon Siddiqi, two people who might be very interested in having quotable copy from the organized left, if only to example the idea that there is an organized resistance.

[ 12 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

quote:

---

Listen, I'm through explaining, if you don't get it, maybe it's just me. I'm Jewish.

---

You are turning the issue sectarian, but that is your problem. We do point out affiliation. ALL THE TIME. He is NDP, she is Liberal, he is Conservative, the President of the Bank of Montreal is a neo-con.

No one has asked you to explain anything. As I recall it was you doing the asking.

This began with a discussion of CP party affiliation and nothing else. I don't know or care about your religious beliefs. I'm becoming certain, though, you are a nut.

[ 12 January 2007: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]

Its not media friendly for one thing.

[ 12 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:

This began with a discussion of CP party affiliation and nothing else. I don't know or care about your religious beliefs. I'm becoming certain, though, you are a nut.

---

You care about political affiliation but not about religious affiliation? Well, that's your prerogative. I believe that people's views on important issues of the day should be assessed on their merits, without regard to a person's political or religious affiliation.

I believe that when a person makes a public statement, and someone replies, "she's a communist party member" or "she's an IS member" or "she's an NDPer", these are statements made to divert the discussion away from the issue and to dismiss someone's views based on some personal factor.

In the examples I just gave, the term "red-baiting" has historically been applied. That's a pejorative term, and rightly so, I believe.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cueball:
My point was that I would have prefered a different style of release, that is all really.

Its not media friendly for one thing.

---

I see no reason why we can not talk about the IS as a political entity in the Canadians left, within the realms of fair debate and discussion of ideology and organization and methdology, especially when its people are openly taking leadership position within standing organizations.

We talk about NDP people in city council, and no one seems to think that is a problem, even though they don't stand for those positions as NDP representatives.

[ 12 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

quote:

---

You care about political affiliation but not about religious affiliation? Well, that's your prerogative. I believe that people's views on important issues of the day should be assessed on their merits, without regard to a person's political or religious affiliation.

---

In a perfect world, everyone is pragmatic and there would be no need for political affiliation as there would be no ideologically based schisms. But as it, ideologies are founded to provide intellectual rationalization to motives of self- and/or collective interest. And most people present arguments, ideas, and rationalizations that can be categorized within existing ideological frameworks. I didn't create it. So don't blame me.

[ 12 January 2007: Message edited by: Frustrated Mess ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:

Political beliefs are important, especially when ideologically founded, because they probably inform the listener of where the speaker is coming from.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cueball:
I see no reason why we can not talk about the IS.

---

You know, you can be infuriating. I tried to agree with you about the CPA release, but no, you've got to carry on. You attack jeff house for red-baiting, and please don't take this the wrong way, but what is the exact precise difference here? As for NDP people on city council or whatever, I find it positively offensive and regressive that when a discussion is taking place on issues and principles, someone pipes up, "Oh, well you're NDP..." - as if that's relevant - as if two NDP members agree on anything much.

I believe it was you who posted a description of Red-baiting, here not long ago, that was fairly good.

It qualified Red-baiting as an attacking people for not honestly representing themselves for the purposes of dishonestly forwarding their hidden agenda -- usually communist. In my view this usually takes the form of smearing people based on objective circumstantial evidence (supporting or defending communists on specific issues for instance,) rather than concrete knowledge of that persons actual political affiliations.

There is no way that this could be the case here, as Sid Lacombe is quite open about the fact that he is a member of the IS. There is no hidden agenda.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cueball:
Why can't we discuss the influence of the IS on the politics of the CPA, when they are openly acting in leadership capacities there?

---

In the interests of trying to get this thread back on course, here's an article from "The Independent" (i.e. no commie or NDP affiliations to send cueball racing for the corner pocket) that answers the original question of who these "terrorists" really were:

quote:

---

The herdsmen had gathered with their animals around large fires at night to ward off mosquitoes. But lit up by the flames, they became latest victims of America's war on terror.

It was their tragedy to be misidentified in a secret operation by special forces attempting to kill three top al-Qa'ida leaders in south-ern Somalia.

Oxfam yesterday confirmed at least 70 nomads in the Afmadow district near the border with Kenya had been killed. The nomads were bombed at night and during the day while searching for water sources.

The operation was only confirmed by the Pentagon a day after it was launched and it continued despite international protests and warnings that it risked being counterproductive.

Yesterday the Americans had boots on the ground for the first time since a 1993 mission backfired and led to a humiliating withdrawal from Somalia. According to The Washington Post, a small number of US military personnel are in southern Somalia trying to determine exactly who was killed in the raids by an AC-130 gunship.

Oxfam - which had received reports from its Somali partner organisations about the herdsmen's deaths - and Amnesty International have asked whether the the air strikes violated international law.

There is also concern that the attacks by American and Ethiopian gunships have fanned the country's civil war. Somalia's main warlords yesterday appeared to agree to disarm their militias and form a new national army. But as the warlords met with the Somali President, Abdullahi Yusuf, gun battles raged outside the presidential villa underlining the scale of the security problems.

Somalia has witnessed a fresh surge in violence this week as warlords have fought to regain old ground and Islamists have attacked government forces and their allies.

Yesterday, fighting in Mogadishu claimed the lives of at least six militia men after a clash with troops. The gun battle was believed to have been sparked by an argument over a parking space.

---

US strikes on al-Qa'ida chiefs kill nomads

And so begins another dark chapter in the "war of terror".

Whoever wrote the CPA press release is immaterial. It's content is what counts and unionist is right on that point. For those who prefer their releases to be "red free" and more professional Oxfam and Amnesty definitely fit the bill as they are saying the same thing.

At the same time it appears the US is preparing for more of the same:

Pentagon Sees Covert Move in Somalia as Blueprint

quote:

---

Military operations in Somalia by American commandos, and the use of the Ethiopian Army as a surrogate force to root out operatives for Al Qaeda in the country, are a blueprint that Pentagon strategists say they hope to use more frequently in counterterrorism missions around the globe.

Military officials said the strike by an American gunship on terrorism suspects in southern Somalia on Sunday showed that even with the departure of Donald H. Rumsfeld from the Pentagon, Special Operations troops intended to take advantage of the directive given to them by Mr. Rumsfeld in the weeks after the Sept. 11 attacks.

American officials said the recent military operations have been carried by the Pentagon’s Joint Special Operations Command, which directs the military’s most secretive and elite units, like the Army’s Delta Force.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by a lonely worker:
It seems cueball has effectively destroyed another interesting thread.

In the interests of trying to get this thread back on course, here's an article from "The Independent" (i.e. no commie or NDP affiliations to send cueball racing for the corner pocket) that answers the original question of who these "terrorists" really were:

The CPA is right to demand action and ALL progressives should do so too before more nations and their "terrorists" are destroyed in the name of freedom.

---

Wow. No wonder you are lonely. Your a fucking asshole.

What was the fuking point of this! Yet another gratuitous personal attack.

[ 12 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by unionist:

Had you said that in the first place - i.e. talking about the release, and not about the releasor - none of this discussion would have arisen. And I think your point would have emerged much more persuasively. By the way, I agree with you about this particular CPA release. Stilted and dogmatic is no way to get media attention, and what's the point of issuing a release if not that.

---

Go fuck youself.

If you don't want to get a nasty reaction, why don't you start off, by avoiding being an asshole?

But same story as last night, you will slag me then complain that I am derailing the thread, if I respond in kind.

Creepy and dishonest.

[ 12 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by a lonely worker:
Re: misidentified terrorist-campfire attendants

---

Reminds me of a report I'd read by John Pilger about Vietnam. The Yanks went into a village after the war was over looking for the body of a downed pilot. They dug up his crop looking for traces of the MIA. The Vietnamese man said something like, I lost my wife and kids to aerial bombing. What's so important about one missing person here ?.

Your comment about the source has NO merits on the actual content of the release itself. That is what unionist said and I agree:

quote:

---

Cueball, I'm going to ask as a favour that you please lay off "identifying" who belongs to which group or whatever. It is irrelevant at best (because I think you'll agree that people's stands matter more than their affiliation), and extremely divisive and harmful at worst. Plus, it messes up decent conversations.

End of lecture.

---

What followed was the type of thread drift that you seem to enjoy creating:

quote:

---

That's why Jack Layton couldn't get enough Paul Summerville cock during the last election

---

Quoting unnamed friends from the Suzuki Foundation critical of Layton and then only AFTER being called out on it editing an earlier post from months before to make it look like you had used the source all along, accusing the NDP of doing nothing on the EI fraud file, talking about a "horny" Scottish communist friend that's now being beaten by her ANC partner, Neil Young songs, etc.

I'm getting extremely tired of seeing every thread turning into your own thought du jour.

If that makes me an asshole who should go "fuck myself" three times so be it.

If you want to talk about the CPA, Layton's choice of "suckers", horny communists, Neil Young songs, who are NDP "cultists" or anything else that amuses you then start a NEW thread and we will discuss it there.

You remind me of people like

quote:

---

Originally posted by a lonely worker:

Whoever wrote the CPA press release is immaterial. It's content is what counts and unionist is right on that point. For those who prefer their releases to be "red free" and more professional Oxfam and Amnesty definitely fit the bill as they are saying the same thing.

---

And in fact, if you had followed any of the discussion a repeatedly stated that I don't care if my press releases are "red free," because in fact I pointed out that CPA press releases were no more "red free," in the past, but they were definitely more professional, like those of Oxfam and AI.

quote:

---

Originally posted by a lonely worker:
I made the remark after trying to read an interesting thread only to see once again you taking it to the gutter.

---

Etc. None of which is worth quoting.

Send a PM to the moderator dickhead.

In each case, they will be able to see, that I did not personally attack any member of the board until you started in with your shit. I attacked public figures, and said nothing about you or Fidel until you launched into your gratuitous shit.

In fact, here you are complaining about red-baiting, but in fact using the same principle to Liberal bait.

Nothing could be a bigger joke.

[ 13 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

Aid agencies urge Somali to let child soldiers go home

quote:

---

Aid agencies appealed to Somalian authorities Friday to free all children under 15 years who have been seized to become soldiers and to release any others held in detention centres.

UNICEF and the non-governmental organization, Save the Children, urged the Transitional Federal Government to ensure children were safely reunited with their families.

A spokesman for UNICEF called the situation 'deplorable' with reports of women and children in refugee camps being targeted by grenades and of children being randomly shot in the streets.

Meanwhile, the UN refugee agency said it was checking reports of a renewed influx of Somali refugees into eastern Ethiopia. It was also concerned by reports that more than a hundred wounded people were heading for the Somali border with Kenya.

The injured were reportedly wounded during Monday's airstrikes near the small town of Doble which was held by Islamist militia until Tuesday.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by a lonely worker:

Quoting unnamed friends from the Suzuki Foundation critical of Layton and then only AFTER being called out on it editing an earlier post from months before to make it look like you had used the source all along, accusing the NDP of doing nothing on the EI fraud file, talking about a "horny" Scottish communist friend that's now being beaten by her ANC partner, Neil Young songs, etc.

---

I never said she was Scottish. She was Greek. Now go buy some glasses, so that you don't have to make up what people are saying.

[ 13 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

quote:

---

In each case, they will be able to see, that I did not personally attack any member of the board until you started in with your shit

---

That wasn't the issue. The issue remains how some of these threads are turning into completely unnecessary thread drift.

I'll let the record speak for itself. If I took personal shots at you and you're offended I'm sorry but I won't apologise for your endless prattle on completely unrelated topics like the political leanings of who wrote the press release in question.

quote:

---

Originally posted by M. Spector:
Isn't that also exactly what Sen. McCarthy did?

---

Nope. Mccarthy dealt in suspicion and innuendo. For the Mccarthyists, it was sufficient to accuse, and let hysteria take care of the rest.

quote:

---

Originally posted by a lonely worker:

That wasn't the issue. The issue remains how some of these threads are turning into completely unnecessary thread drift.

---

It is completely the issue when discussing board etiquette.

[ 13 January 2007: Message edited by: Cueball ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by a lonely worker:
Unfortunately it seems the US and their lackeys have sunk to new lows they never even considered doing in Vietnam (or did they force children to fight there?).

---

I read where U.S. soldiers, most of them not very old themselves, accused Vietnamese of psych warfare. The examples they gave were children charging them with unloaded weapons and grenades with pins still intact. They used it to justify deadly force against women and children apparently.

quote:

---

Originally posted by a lonely worker:
The first rule of Board etiquette is stick to the topic.

On that point do you have anything to add to the discussion on Somalia?

---

Yes, you have needlessly derailed this thread by turning it into a rehash of the beaf you have with me from last night. It was unecessary and stupid.

But on that topic, I hardly think that pointing out that Buzz Hargrove did not say that he was opposed Emissions Controls on thread concerning a letter Buzz Hargrove sent to Jack Layton about Emissions controls amounts to "thread drift."

Nor does discussing the positino of the Suzuki foundation, or negative commentary that they have made about the Jack Layton's strategy regarding the CAB.

quote:

---

Originally posted by a lonely worker:
So I guess the US has only improved on an old tactic to send the "terrorists" back to the stone age.

---

I think there has been that analysis, that they kill em all and let god sort them out. Roman imperialists dished out death as a way of saying, this is for nothing, so don't even think about breaking Roman law or attacking the empire. I don't know.

I think they certainly don't think much of peasants wherever they have gone. For instance, there have been comparisons of the Vietnamese resistance to the French underground in WWII. The French marked bricks on walls with subtle chalk marks, which meant a slew of things from meetings to drop points etc. The Vietnamese knew their own surroundings and marked their own booby traps with an odd placing of a branch or broken leaf. It could have meant anything from, follow this path to safety to marking the whereabouts of a kalashnikov under water at the river's edge. Fascinating, and they were definitely underestimated.

quote:

---

I guess when the children are finished fighting "evil" they can always work at the soon to be opened McDonalds in Mogadishu or sewing clothes for Wal-Mart. At least I'm assuming that's the plan.

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Who knows ?. I think Africa is supposed to be another repository of mineral wealth and resources for mulinats to raid at will. Keep whole nations divided, conquered and poor as possible. What a tragedy Africa. By the looks of things, capitalists think they need cell phones and water meters. We socialists know they need schools, hospitals, and basic infrastrucure more basic than cell phones, first and foremost. Patrice Lumumba was their best hope for a united Africa. They caged Patrice like an animal and tortured him to death. That was then, and this is the best capitalism has to offer them now. It's not enough.

[ 13 January 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]

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Two weeks ago, Ethiopia invaded on the side of the anti-Islamists. Predominantly Christian Ethiopia is America's main client state in the region. So it is not surprising that this invasion was viewed inside Somalia as another American attempt at proxy intervention.

That perception was bolstered on Monday when a U.S. warplane strafed a group of Somalis, in a failed effort to assassinate a man suspected of having been involved in the Nairobi bombing. On Thursday, Washington admitted it had killed the wrong people.

So, here we are again. As in Afghanistan, the war on terror has trumped rationality. Faced with a choice between a somewhat orderly country run by people it doesn't particularly like or a failed state that has to be propped up by foreign troops, Washington seems to have again chosen the latter.

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Proof, you say? Well, if they aren't, then why did Bill Clinton bomb that pharmaceutical factory in Khartoum? I rest my case.

From there, I believe we must look into the WMD program in Lebanon, before it's too late.

There is a lot to be done. Recruitment means YOU. Liberty is our job. Don't leave it to others. Help encourage your neighbours to send their children to Afghanistan, Darfur, Seychelles, Tuvalu, or wherever freedom calls.

Be the first one on your block to have your kid come home in a box!

And it's one, two, three, what are we fighting for?
Don't ask me 'cause I'm not too sure,
Next stop will be Darfur!
And it's five, six, seven, open up the Pearly Gates,
Well, there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! We're all gonna die.

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Originally posted by unionist:
Help encourage your neighbours to send their children to Afghanistan, Darfur, Seychelles, Tuvalu, or wherever freedom calls.

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They will be the first to go when the ocean levels rise. We should be sending troops there to build dikes.

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
I pick Tuvalu.

They will be the first to go when the ocean levels rise. We should be sending troops there to build dikes.

After all, once Tuvalu (literally) goes under, that's the end of the ".tv" country domain suffix, and a lot of television websites will be hit hard.

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[ 13 January 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]

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The Norwegian government, a member of the international Somali Contact Group, said Washington's explanation of the bombings was "insufficient" and that the fight on terror should be waged in a courtroom.

North American analysts also stressed the risks involved in the U.S. attacks.

"Anyone who has paid any attention to Afghanistan or Iraq knows it is way too early to determine how the Ethiopian intervention, the defeat of the Islamic Courts and now the U.S. bombing will play out in the long run," said Ken Menkhaus, a leading scholar on Somalia based at North Carolina's Davidson University.

"There was one degree of separation between the tacit American backing of the Ethiopian intervention felt by many Somalis who believed Washington was just contracting out the invasion to the Ethiopians.

"Now that one degree of separation is gone."

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British SAS in Somalia

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AN SAS team is hunting down Al-Qaeda terror suspects as they try to flee war-torn Somalia after the crushing defeat of the country’s Islamist forces last week.

The suspects are trapped between invading Ethiopian troops — assisted by US special forces and American mercenaries — and the Kenyan army and SAS troops who are acting as “training advisers” but have been leading operations along the border, providing a “screen” to trap terrorists.

The dramatic victory by Ethiopian troops was the culmination of months of preparation inside and outside Somalia by American and British special forces, and US-hired mercenaries.

The “professional assistance” was recruited by officials based in the US embassy in Nairobi at the end of 2005 as part of a deniable operation, sources claimed.

According to a CIA source, American intelligence and military have been bankrolling the Ethiopians since the start of last year, as well as providing them with satellite surveillance, technical, military and logistical support.

“They not only gave them money and technical support but even spare parts where needed,” the source said.

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I don't think it got much coverage late last year, but the US administration announced plans to start redesigning its Unified Command Plan to create a separate regional Unified Command dedicated to Africa, which is currently divided up among several different Commands:

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Details, such as where the command would be headquartered and how many personnel would be assigned, still need to be worked out, the official said.

Still, Chester Crocker, professor of strategic studies at Georgetown University, said just the act of creating an Africa Command, whatever its timetable or structure, is an important symbolic move.

“To pull all of that together is a positive thing,” he said. “Having Africa covered by three different commands, having that division of attention, that’s not a good plan if you want to have a coherent Africa strategy.”

Crocker was one of several experts who helped write the Council on Foreign Relations January 2005 report that called current American policy towards Africa “fragmented,” in part because foreign assistance and anti-terrorism programs are being handled by three different military commands.

“The Sahara is not a wall; jihadists will travel across it and spread their ideology,” Crocker said. “The upside of this is a unity of focus throughout Africa.”

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WASHINGTON -- Military operations in Somalia by U.S. commandos, and the use of the Ethiopian army as a surrogate force to root out Al Qaeda operatives in the country, are a blueprint that Pentagon strategists say they hope to use more frequently in counterterrorism missions around the globe.

Military officials said the strike by an American gunship against terrorism suspects in southern Somalia on Sunday shows that even with the departure of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld from the Pentagon, Special Operations Command troops intend to take advantage of the directive given to them by Rumsfeld in the weeks after the Sept. 11 attacks.

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And the now-forming AfricaCom, with its proposed ability to better coordinate future operations on the continent, may be putting those doctrines into practice elsewhere in the future.

[ 14 January 2007: Message edited by: sgm ]

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Mohamed Dheere, one of the most feared warlords in Somalia, gave the army chief 23 trucks mounted with heavy weapons and ordered 220 of his fighters to report for training at government camps. The handover took place during a ceremony in Dheere's stronghold of Jowhar, 50 miles north of the capital of Mogadishu, said Abdirahman Dinari, the government spokesman.

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Hundreds of women and children have marched through the Somali town bombed by the US on Monday, chanting anti-American slogans.

At least four civilians were reportedly killed but an Islamist spokesman said none of their fighters were hurt.

The US said the attack was aimed at a "known al-Qaeda terrorist" but has not said whether its goal was achieved.

Islamist insurgents seized Dhoble town last week and reports said a leader, Hassan Turki, had been in the area. [...]

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