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Author Topic: Israeli court keeps families separate
unionist
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Babbler # 11323

posted 14 May 2006 04:07 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Israeli court upholds spouse ban

quote:
Israel's Supreme Court has upheld a controversial law barring West Bank Palestinians from living with their spouses and children in Israel itself...

One of the groups that challenged the law said thousands of families were affected, that they have been forced to move abroad or live apart...

But the Israeli state says the recent election victory of the militant group Hamas strengthened its case that Palestinians were a security risk and should not be allowed into the country.

There are some 1.3 million Arab citizens in Israel - just under 20% of the population.


Yet anyone who meets Israel's current definition of a Jew (which would include me) can land at Tel Aviv airport and claim, not just residency, but instant citizenship.

This ugly regime has betrayed the aspirations of many who hoped (foolishly perhaps) to carve out a home and a progressive social system for themselves prior to the foundation of the state of Israel. The only small point they forgot to add into the equation was the indigenous population.

Increasingly, it appears to me that a one-state multi-national solution is the only one which will bring peace. To perpetuate a quasi-theocratic ethnic-based outpost of western colonial interests -- with or without a fragile Palestinian state alongside it -- will also perpetuate insecurity for Jews in the region and worldwide, as well as the denial of the fundamental democratic rights of the peoples of the region.

Not to mention providing a foothold for the Bushes of this world and a standing eyesore for the crazed Bin Ladens and his ilk.


From: Vote QS! | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged
B.L. Zeebub LLD
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Babbler # 6914

posted 14 May 2006 05:37 PM      Profile for B.L. Zeebub LLD     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
What he/she said...
From: A Devil of an Advocate | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
ohara
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Babbler # 7961

posted 14 May 2006 06:50 PM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In my travels in Israel i have met many indigenous Israeli Arabs that are full citizens. I have met Bedouins that enlisted in the IDF as i have met Druze who have done the same all of whom were full Israeli citizens. I have met CCoptics and even Japanese Israelis who are full citizens. Was I in anotherf Israel or were you just pulling our leg?

As for the Law of Return, remember Israel was created as a homeland for the Jew who had no home. Whether you like it or not it is a reality. You can wish your fatalistic dreams if you want but no amount of Babble-gazing will make the Jewish state disappear.

So I prefer to work from within. Agitate and demonstrate for change. Liberalized immigration procedures, better and equal treatment of all Israeli citizens. Israel has a long way to go beofre it reaches a state of perfection but so do most countries in this world. It has a headstart because it is a democracy


From: Ottawa | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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Babbler # 11323

posted 14 May 2006 06:56 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ohara:
Was I in another Israel or were you just pulling our leg?

You were in another Israel.


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unionist
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11323

posted 14 May 2006 07:03 PM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ohara:

As for the Law of Return, remember Israel was created as a homeland for the Jew who had no home.


My parents were Holocaust survivors. They were among 1% (that's right) of the Jews who survived in their small town. They came to Canada after the war -- penniless, homeless, determined to build a new life.

My home is Canada. Nowhere else. Yet Israel generously offers me a second home? While the true homeless, the refugees expelled in 1948 and 1967 and thereafter, and their descendants who still live in camps, are denied entry?

What hypocrisy. What cynicism. What a betrayal of millennia of progressive and enlightened Jewish civilization and the inestimable contributions it made to the numberless societies where Jews lived (welcome or otherwise). What an insult to the Jewish people that Israel steals their noble name, calling itself the "Jewish state" while negating everything that Jews throughout the ages have fought and died for.

[ 14 May 2006: Message edited by: unionist ]


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N.Beltov
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posted 14 May 2006 07:07 PM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
ohara: Israel has a long way to go beofre it reaches a state of perfection but so do most countries in this world. It has a headstart because it is a democracy

Others on this board have, very rightly, mocked this as "the mid-east's only democracy" TM. But I prefer the expression of Michel Warschawski. Israel is a fake democracy.

The New Israel: A Fake Democracy.

quote:
There was a time when the Zionist left was accused of “shooting and then crying.” Today we can say that it bombs and then whimpers in self-pity. Far from fighting for the society that it dreamed of not all that long ago, it is turning inward. It is accusing the whole world, the Palestinians first and foremost, of being responsible for its sorry fate, and dreaming of a more normal future in Europe or the United States. Undoubtedly this will only strengthen the forces of reaction in Israel.

Only a small minority is continuing to fight, both for the rights of the Palestinian people and to stop Israel’s transformation into a fundamentalist state that has shed its last democratic pretenses.



From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 14 May 2006 08:52 PM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ohara:
In my travels in Israel i have met many indigenous Israeli Arabs that are full citizens. I have met Bedouins that enlisted in the IDF as i have met Druze who have done the same all of whom were full Israeli citizens. I have met CCoptics and even Japanese Israelis who are full citizens. Was I in anotherf Israel or were you just pulling our leg?

Yes but of course as non-jews they can not buy property, since no Jew or Jewish organization may sell property to a non-Jew. A more or less blanket ban on new porperty aquisitions by Arabs since the Israeli state expropriated most of the Arab land, that had not been purchased prior to the expulsion of the Majority of the Arab population in 1948. Prior to that of course, only 6% of the land of Israel was owned by Jews, and this fact itself undrscores the immense uncompensated rip off of Arabs by the state of Israel.

That is full citizenship in name only. It is a lie. It is a cheat. At best, it is merely semantic manipulation.

[ 14 May 2006: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
ohara
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posted 15 May 2006 12:14 AM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So the home I dined in owned by a Druze Captain in the IDF was not really owned by him? The Church of the Holy Sephlucar is owned by Jews? I do no follow?
From: Ottawa | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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posted 15 May 2006 12:20 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I started this thread to inform babblers about how Israel treats the families of its own citizens. Comments or information on that topic are welcome.
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ohara
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posted 15 May 2006 12:24 AM      Profile for ohara        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
So if you make statements that can be challenged you dont want anyone to do that?
From: Ottawa | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
unionist
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Babbler # 11323

posted 15 May 2006 12:33 AM      Profile for unionist     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ohara:
So if you make statements that can be challenged you dont want anyone to do that?

You can shove your red herrings where they can't swim. I never said only Jews could be citizens of Israel. I never said anything about who could own property. I said Israel grants automatic citizenship based on religion while denying expelled inhabitants the right to return. I can't believe I'm stating the obvious. Go explain to the U.N. why their resolutions are flawed, that they should visit some Druze Captain in the IDF and wisdom will dawn. Don't you dare lecture me about a Jewish homeland, you agent provocateur.


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Cueball
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posted 15 May 2006 10:25 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ohara:
So the home I dined in owned by a Druze Captain in the IDF was not really owned by him? The Church of the Holy Sephlucar is owned by Jews? I do no follow?

Oh you don't? Ok then why not call up your Druze Captain fellow and ask him if he is allowed to buy property of Jewish people, whom own most of the land? You of course are allowed to buy his house, he can not buy yours, if you own one in Israel, that is.


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Cueball
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posted 15 May 2006 10:33 AM      Profile for Cueball   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Anyone actually interested in how Israel asserts its Apatheid policies against the so called "full citizens" that are Israeli_arabs need only read this: Major Findings of Adalah's Report to the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination

quote:
Discriminatory Laws: This Report found 20 discriminatory laws - 17 of which are discriminatory on their face, in that they either relate only to the rights of Jews in Israel or abridge the rights of Arab citizens of the State. The other 3 laws discussed in this Report use neutral language and general terminology, but have a discriminatory effect on Arab citizens. The 17 facially discriminatory laws were found in the Basic Laws, the sources of Israel law, citizenship, the right of political participation, land and housing rights, culture rights, education rights, and religious rights. The other 3 laws, which use neutral language but have a discriminatory effect, have been used to control and limit land and housing rights of the Arab minority in Israel.

[ 15 May 2006: Message edited by: Cueball ]


From: Out from under the bridge and out for a stroll | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
B.L. Zeebub LLD
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posted 15 May 2006 12:15 PM      Profile for B.L. Zeebub LLD     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ohara:
So the home I dined in owned by a Druze Captain in the IDF was not really owned by him? The Church of the Holy Sephlucar is owned by Jews? I do no follow?


I follow. All of this, including your first post, is completely irrelevent to the question at hand, as "Unionist" has pointed out. Your Ohasbara notwithstanding, how exactly are "working from within" (a specious claim considering you admit you "visit" Israel) to help victims of Israel's patently racist law against allowing immigration of Palestinians married to Israeli citizens?


From: A Devil of an Advocate | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
B.L. Zeebub LLD
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Babbler # 6914

posted 15 May 2006 12:34 PM      Profile for B.L. Zeebub LLD     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
My home is Canada. Nowhere else. Yet Israel generously offers me a second home? While the true homeless, the refugees expelled in 1948 and 1967 and thereafter, and their descendants who still live in camps, are denied entry? [ 14 May 2006: Message edited by: unionist ]

I think it is useful to look at the 1948 war not as a seperate issue from WWII, but a continuation of processes set in place because of it. Seen this way, displaced Palestinians are the same as any other people displaced (German, Jewish, Russian, Polish) by the war and should be compensated and (re)located as such.

In a sense, the creation of Israel was the real "final solution" to the question of Jews' status in Europe. Israel was created in the same maelstrom of progressive and regressive ideas that saw much of the world embroiled in conflict from the beginning of the Spanish Civil War onward. The progressive forces that sought in Israel a "New Society" have been silenced by the regressive, fearful and xenophobic strands of nationalist thought that brought the world so much destruction.

The only way to truly "right the wrong" is not to continue in the spirit of those horrible events, but to break their logic entirely. Israel can only be a success if it becomes more progressive, more tolerant, and more inclusive than those states that sought to remove Jews from their midst - and that includes the Allied countries who saw in the creation of Israel a solution to their own internal conflicts about the status of Jews.

[ 15 May 2006: Message edited by: B.L. Zeebub LLD ]


From: A Devil of an Advocate | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ken Burch
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posted 19 May 2006 03:11 PM      Profile for Ken Burch     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ohara:

So I prefer to work from within. Agitate and demonstrate for change. Liberalized immigration procedures, better and equal treatment of all Israeli citizens. Israel has a long way to go beofre it reaches a state of perfection but so do most countries in this world. It has a headstart because it is a democracy


Would you agree, ohara, that the time must come to an end of saying that it is illegitimate for predominately Arab political parties within Israel to participate as formal coalition partners in government?

Would you also agree that no elected Israeli government should ever be discredited by its opponents saying that that government was only elected with Israeli Arab votes(this slur was used against Barak and Peres, for example)?

THAT would be an example of "working from within".


From: A seedy truckstop on the Information Superhighway | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged

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