quote:

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"I'm also troubled by, not what Senator McCain says, but what members of the [Republican] Party say... such things as 'Well, you know that Mr Obama is a Muslim'.

"Well the correct answer is, 'He's not a Muslim, he's a Christian, he's always been a Christian'. But the really right answer is, "What if he is?' Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer is 'No', that's not America."

---

BBC - Powell endorses Obama

[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: brookmere ]

quote:

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Mr Powell said he remained a Republican though he thought his party was moving too far to the right.

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Complete Transcript and Video

On a personal level I have a lot of problems with Powell because of his participation in the pushing for the Iraq war. His UN speech in particular.

However in terms of the political implications of this endorsement it's massive. Powell is still one of the most respected figures in US politics and his views hold a lot of bi-partisan weight. I've read in several places that he his overall approval ratings run in the 80% zone. He was at the top of the list of people who's endorsement actually means something.

Huffington Post describes the endorsement as a "nail in the coffin for McCain" Like there weren't enough nails already.

Also from huffpo, seems like Powell may get a job out of this.

quote:

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"He will have a role as one of my advisers," Barack Obama said on NBC's "Today" in an interview aired Monday, a day after Powell, a four-star general and President Bush's former secretary of state, endorsed him.

"Whether he wants to take a formal role, whether that's a good fit for him, is something we'd have to discuss," Obama said.

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quote:

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He went places that Republican's of his perceived stature just haven't gone, including his comments about the whole 'muslim' thing. He got that one right and I'm glad that someone finally said it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by oldgoat:
Obama is probably correct in assuming that this will add to his public comfort level by having Powell on his foriegn policy team.

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quote:

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Originally posted by oldgoat:
Obama is probably correct in assuming that this will add to his public comfort level by having Powell on his foriegn policy team. I will leave it to others to muse on what a short memory people have.[/QB]

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I'm pretty cynical about this and have to wonder how much this is about a real position or how much this statement is about milking the news cycle, the endorsement and throwing the McCain campaign off balance even more. Regardless of how I feel about it, it is easy to see the strategic nature of how it's playing in terms of the campaign. It's smart from that POV and backs up Obama's 'uniting' message which right now is running in stark contrast to the more and more divisive messages that are coming out of the McCain campaign right now.

The 'right' and in this case the more 'extreme' right is in serious spin and damage control mode. Heads are a explodin.' What I see happening though is a further separation of the more extreme ends as the spin is all about 'race',(Powell is now being branded a 'racist') traitors, un-American and they're basically tearing apart Powell who regardless of his history is still very respected in the minds of moderates and those in the center of things. What they're saying about him doesn't mesh with the perception that's out there and potentially pushes even more people away.
It's a really damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

The other irony that I see in the spin is that one of the talking points is that Powell is implicated in starting the war, which is true, but in order to push that line the right has to skirt and twist around the fact that it was an 'unjust' war which is not their position. It actually plays right into Obama's talking points not McCains.
I was watching Fox last night and it was pretty funny to watch the acrobatics in that area.

Oh and one of the other 'talking points' I've heard is that the only reason Powell got where he was in the first place is because of affirmative action and now he's ungrateful for what was 'given' to him. Shitty yeah, but that is still a condemnation of the Republican and the Bush adminstration. Unless one is extreme right winger all of this spin does nothing to further McCain's campaign it is just making them look even more looney.

[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: ElizaQ ]

quote:

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Originally posted by oldgoat:
Also from huffpo, seems like Powell may get a job out of this.

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Powell is not exactly disinterested. This declaration comes at virtually the eleventh hour of the campaign, and only because he stands to make some good money from working for the new administration.

Moreover, the fact that this unrepentant war-monger endorses him should be a an embarrassment to Obama. The fact that it isn't tells us a lot about the Obama campaign.

quote:

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Moreover, the fact that this unrepentant war-monger endorses him should be a an embarrassment to Obama.

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Ah, but an unrepentant warmonger was just what his campaign was lacking at this late hour. I don't know if he'll be able to come up with a crazed televangialist at this point, but that would pretty much complete things for his final stretch.

Edited to add: Maybe he could send John Hagee a plate of fresh steaming biscuits with extra gravy and a promise that he'll keep his place in the White House inner circle of power, which is all the greasy little toad really wants.

[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: oldgoat ]

quote:

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
.

If Powell were really "getting it right" for once, he'd be renouncing the Republican Party and his own criminal past, and supporting a candidate who is not a warmongering imperialist. Someone like Cynthia McKinney.[/QB]

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Well he did 1 out of the 3.

I don't see anyone, at least so far, in this thread saying that Powell 'got it all right'. The got it right part was in reference to his comments about the Muslim issue. On that point he did.
The rest not so much.

As far as what it supposedly 'tells us' about the Obama campaign? What it tells me is that Obama is playing the center to get elected and that's about it. Which isn't surprising since that's what he's been playing all along. He's a politician. What a revelation.
Right now if he spoke out against Powell he'd likely lose because of it. It would be political suicide. I have no clue and I don't think you do either about what Obama's true feelings are about Powell. We can likely speculate about it until the cows come home. If he gets elected then perhaps his feelings will become more clear.

quote:

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Originally posted by ElizaQ:
What it tells me is that Obama is playing the center to get elected and that's about it. Which isn't surprising since that's what he's been playing all along. He's a politician. What a revelation.

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If "playing the centre [CDN spelling]" means calling for troop surges in Afghanistan and invasion of Pakistan, then Obama and his "centre" are in for some nasty surprises, whether he is elected or not.

As far as "he's a politician", it is possible to be a politician without supporting war and calling for more. Even in the United States.

If Colin Powell had combined his support for Obama with a statement of sober second thoughts about U.S. foreign policy and his own stands of the past, I might have taken some notice. In the absence of that, Powell's support clearly confirms that Obama's foreign policy will be scarcely different from George W. Bush's, unfortunately.

I'm happy that Powell says it's ok to be a Muslim in America. Obama's pandering campaign site still says:

quote:

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Barack Is Not and Has Never Been Muslim

Barack Never Attended a Muslim School

Barack Is a Practicing Christian

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If Powell had said "it's ok to be a fundamentalist Muslim in Afghanistan, it's none of our business as long as they don't attack us", I'd have listened more carefully.

[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]

quote:

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Originally posted by ElizaQ:
I don't see anyone, at least so far, in this thread saying that Powell 'got it all right'.

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quote:

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Right now if he spoke out against Powell he'd likely lose because of it. It would be political suicide.

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But even without criticizing Powell, did Obama really have to go so far as to embrace him and say he'd have a place in his administration?

quote:

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
Did you read the title?

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Did you read what the OP actually posted under the title? The only quote pulled was the one about the Muslim issue. Forgive me for taking it to mean that that Brookmere was commenting on that and not necessarily the whole kit and caboodle.

quote:

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
[QB]Yeah, we've been hearing the "If Obama said X it would be political suicide" line for the past year, thanks very much. It's used by everybody who wants to justify supporting Obama's steady rightward move.

But even without criticizing Powell, did Obama really have to go so far as to embrace him and say he'd have a place in his administration?

Obama may not be embarrassed, but has he no shame?[/QB]

---

Thanks you very much for placing me in the apologist camp. Right from the beginning I have never been one of 'those people' who has seen his stances as somehow 'left'. He has never been 'left', if people thought as much then that's their problem. All one has to do is take a look at his history to see that his policies have always been playing around the right of center.

I thought that would be self-evident, but it would seem that on babble one can't assume anything to be self-evident.

Also:

quote:

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Barack Is Not and Has Never Been Muslim

Barack Never Attended a Muslim School

Barack Is a Practicing Christian

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Edit: addendum

[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: brookmere ]

quote:

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Originally posted by unionist:

If "playing the centre [CDN spelling]" means calling for troop surges in Afghanistan and invasion of Pakistan, then Obama and his "centre" are in for some nasty surprises, whether he is elected or not.

As far as "he's a politician", it is possible to be a politician without supporting war and calling for more. Even in the United States.

If Colin Powell had combined his support for Obama with a statement of sober second thoughts about U.S. foreign policy and his own stands of the past, I might have taken some notice. In the absence of that, Powell's support clearly confirms that Obama's foreign policy will be scarcely different from George W. Bush's, unfortunately.
[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]

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'Playing the centre' is just a generalized description of the current spectrum of political discourse in the US and yes unfortunately that center has varying opinions on war and the wars that the US are involved in. I wasn't suggesting that overall the center of the a political spectrum in the purist sense or in relation to say somewhere like Canada supports those types of policies. In the US however it seems too. It's all relative.

It is possible to be that sort of politician, currently though I'd say it's debatable on whether such a politician could get actually get elected into the highest office in the land. Things are so scued that I'm not sure there'd be enough people that would vote in someone like that.
Perhaps my comments are more a condemnation of just how messed up the US political spectrum actually is right now if Obama's policies are considered more centrist.

quote:

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Originally posted by ElizaQ:
Heck I'd go even further. It's so messed up and scued rightward that 'the right' is actually using socialism as reason not to vote for Obama and millions of people are actually buying into the belief that Obama is radical, leftist, socialist, markist, commie that will destroy the country by bringing it so far to the left that it will be unrecognizable.

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quote:

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Originally posted by brookmere:
These are direct rebuttals to falsehoods that were spread about Obama. I would expect no less from any politician.

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Oh, really. So if some low-lifes had said that Al Gore is of Jewish heritage, is a closet gay, and that he is a hireling of the Commies, you would expect no less from Gore than:

quote:

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I am not and have never been Jewish; I've never gone to a Jewish school; I don't accept money from any Commies; and I have never had sexual relations except with that woman

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quote:

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Originally posted by ElizaQ:
It's all relative.

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quote:

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
So assuming Obama actually gets elected it will pretty much blow your "political suicide" theory out the window. They're going to call him a radical leftist no matter what he says.

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quote:

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Originally posted by unionist:

How sad.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ElizaQ:

What's sad exactly? That I said those words or that it appears to be the state of things.

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That you said these words about a man who wants to "win" the war in Afghanistan by multiplying troop levels and who approves going after the insurgents in Pakistan.

quote:

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Originally posted by unionist:

That you said these words about a man who wants to "win" the war in Afghanistan by multiplying troop levels and who approves going after the insurgents in Pakistan.

This has nothing to do with relativity. The people of the U.S. didn't ask for these wars. They were imposed upon them by their ruling class. Obama should promise, and deliver, peace and non-aggression. There is no "centre" between that position and Bush's.

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Oh I get it now. You're making it about me and my opinions on the matter. In my opinion I totally agree with you here. That comment wasn't about me or my opinion. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in trying to explain that my comments aren't necessarily my opinion on where the centre *should* be. They are more a comment on what appears to be the centreish position for people that are actually the ones voting.

[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: ElizaQ ]

Now, anybody who takes the time to learn about how the Bush administration worked, especially during Iraq, would know that Colin Powell was different from other, real hard line neo-conservatives such as Cheney, Rumsfeld and Bolton. Throughout Powell's tenure, his state department clashed with Rumsfeld's defense department over how to handle Iraq. Rumsfeld wanted 50,000 troops to stabilize the country after the invasion. Powell wanted 400,000. Bush settled for around 100,000. Believe me, this made a HUGE difference. If Powell was running the war, Iraq would not have allowed to become the basket case it did. Actually, if Powell was running the show, he wouldn't have even invaded.

That said, Powell is still complicit in the war. He was the man who built up the case for war in front of the UN. He now says he regrets that speech.

I view Powell in the same light I view Hillary Clinton. Talented, intellegent, moderate... I wouldn't mind him working under a Liberal, but I know, and he's proven, he doesn't have the leadership skills to really stand up to a neo-conservative, even if he's "fucking crazy".

[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: West Coast Greeny ]

I have no respect for Powell at all. He played a key role in the Iraq war.

[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: Lord Palmerston ]

quote:

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Originally posted by West Coast Greeny:
Rumsfeld wanted 50,000 troops to stabilize the country after the invasion. Powell wanted 400,000. Bush settled for around 100,000. Believe me, this made a HUGE difference. If Powell was running the war, Iraq would not have allowed to become the basket case it did.

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And as we all know, the war would have gone just swell if only the US had committed enough troops to crush the Iraqi resistance earlier.

quote:

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Originally posted by ElizaQ:
They are more a comment on what appears to be the centreish position for people that are actually the ones voting.

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I totally disagree with you. "People" don't have built-in "positions" that determine how they vote. People can be inspired, led, listened to, guided, and educated.

As long as progressive people say, "Oh, the people are a bunch of right-wing fanatics, so Obama is closer to the centre than McCain", we will be blaming the voters for the warmongering homophobic pro-death penalty pro-capitalist anti-public social services stands of the Democrats and Republicans.

In short, we will be giving the "people" what we arrogantly think they want to hear - rather than telling them what we think and urging them to open their eyes.

quote:

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If Powell were really "getting it right" for once, he'd be renouncing the Republican Party and his own criminal past, and supporting a candidate who is not a warmongering imperialist. Someone like Cynthia McKinney.

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or Obama could drop out of the race and endorse Gloria La Riva, the real left voice.

quote:

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Originally posted by unionist:

I totally disagree with you. "People" don't have built-in "positions" that determine how they vote. People can be inspired, led, listened to, guided, and educated.

As long as progressive people say, "Oh, the people are a bunch of right-wing fanatics, so Obama is closer to the centre than McCain", we will be blaming the voters for the warmongering homophobic pro-death penalty pro-capitalist anti-public social services stands of the Democrats and Republicans.

In short, we will be giving the "people" what we arrogantly think they want to hear - rather than telling them what we think and urging them to open their eyes.

By the way, the same applies to Canada. And to everywhere.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by unionist:

I totally disagree with you. "People" don't have built-in "positions" that determine how they vote. People can be inspired, led, listened to, guided, and educated.

As long as progressive people say, "Oh, the people are a bunch of right-wing fanatics, so Obama is closer to the centre than McCain", we will be blaming the voters for the warmongering homophobic pro-death penalty pro-capitalist anti-public social services stands of the Democrats and Republicans.

In short, we will be giving the "people" what we arrogantly think they want to hear - rather than telling them what we think and urging them to open their eyes.

By the way, the same applies to Canada. And to everywhere.

---

Where did I say or imply that I think that people have 'built in' positions? I think you're reading way to much into what I commented on and taking it way further then it ever meant too. They're not an excuse or justification or some sort of attempt at 'progressive commentary' it's an analysis of a current situation and how strategically Obama is playing the politics. If I wanted to make a 'progressive' an 'acceptable' comment about the whole thing it would be quite different. I don't have to agree, condone or even particularly like the situation to comment about what Powell's endorsement means for Obama's chances of getting elected under the current circumstances of the election.

[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: ElizaQ ]

quote:

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Originally posted by ElizaQ:
Where did I say or imply that I think that people have 'built in' positions?

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It's an assertion (again, wrong) that candidates for public office should tell people what they think they want to hear rather than taking positions that are right, and persuading people to vote for them.

quote:

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
[QB]Suggesting that it would be political suicide for Obama to distance himself from the Bush administration's war in Iraq is a clear suggestion that he should accommodate himself to what you (wrongly) perceive to be the mainstream public opinion in the USA.

It's an assertion (again, wrong) that candidates for public office should tell people what they think they want to hear rather than taking positions that are right, and persuading people to vote for them.

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Well there's where you are wrong. I didn't suggest that Obama distancing himself from the "Bush Administrations War in Iraq" would be political suicide. I suggested distancing himself right now from Powell would. They are politically two different things, connected yes but different.

Thanks, but I am well aware of the mainstream publics perception of the war is and I am also aware what the mainstream perception of Powell's part in the war is, as well as the perception of Powell. They don't match up and aren't equal and no amount of whining that 'well they should be' (which I happen to agree with) will change that perception in a matter of a few days. That's just the reality. Powell is still, whether warrented or not one of the most popular and respected figures in the US. He has approval ratings in the 80% range which cross partisan lines.

quote:

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
Interesting theory: Obama needs to suck up to Colin Powell if he hopes to win the election.

That is wrong on so many levels.

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quote:

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But out in the real world, where the operations of imperial power have left smoking trails of murder and ruin across the globe, the "endorsement" of a man who played an indispensable role in the slaughter of more than a million innocent people in a war of Hitlerian aggression should be regarded as a thing of shame, and vociferously rejected by anyone with a scintilla of honor or morality.

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quote:

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From the My Lai massacre to Iran-Contra, from Washington's long and murderous collusion with Saddam to its long and murderous campaigns to remove him, Powell has been instrumental in perpetrating or covering up atrocities and abominations on a gigantic scale.

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quote:

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Powell has always been a faithful servant of America's militarist empire – no matter who its temporary manager might be.

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That about sums him up. He waited until it was pretty much a done deal on who would win before choosing.

quote:

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Originally posted by unionist:
Oh, really. So if some low-lifes had said that Al Gore is of Jewish heritage, is a closet gay, and that he is a hireling of the Commies, you would expect no less from Gore than:

---

- he is married (i.e. is not gay).
- is a practicing Christian and attended divinity school (i.e. is not Jewish)
- served in Vietnam (i.e. fought the commies)

Let's not be naive. When politicians publicize their personal lives, rather then telling people it's not anyone's business, one reason is so that nobody gets the idea that they are gay, Jewish, atheist, etc.

quote:

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Originally posted by brookmere:

Gore, just like any American politician, took pains to point out:

- he is married (i.e. is not gay).
- is a practicing Christian and attended divinity school (i.e. is not Jewish)
- served in Vietnam (i.e. fought the commies)

Let's not be naive. When politicians publicize their personal lives, rather then telling people it's not anyone's business, one reason is so that nobody gets the idea that they are gay, Jewish, atheist, etc.

Obama just had to be more blunt in his approach because he was more vulnerable to false accusations because of his background.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by brookmere:

Gore, just like any American politician, took pains to point out:

- he is married (i.e. is not gay).
- is a practicing Christian and attended divinity school (i.e. is not Jewish)
- served in Vietnam (i.e. fought the commies)

Let's not be naive. When politicians publicize their personal lives, rather then telling people it's not anyone's business, one reason is so that nobody gets the idea that they are gay, Jewish, atheist, etc.

Obama just had to be more blunt in his approach because he was more vulnerable to false accusations because of his background.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Jingles: The fact that "liberals" are in rapturous joy over this demonstrates once again that the term "progressive American" is an oxymoron (for another illumination, just check out the comments section of websites like Huffington Post, or Democratic Underground when there is a story about Hugo Chavez. Makes you want to be a Republican. At least their fascism is honest).

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It's nothing different then if you stuck Canadian Liberal party supporters and everyone to the left of them in one place and asked for comments on similar stories. 'liberal' as a definition or descriptor in the US is not synonomous to 'progressive american' and is basically a catchall term for anyone that doesn't support the Republican type thinking of the day. For example go to a Freeper like site and you'll discover that McCain is actually a 'liberal' in many peoples eyes and so is Powell for that matter. I've even seen comments that Harper is a 'liberal' as well. It's actually more a definition that grew from 'right' and it's politics of division then from the left and has little to do with whether someone is actually 'progressive' in practice.

[ 20 October 2008: Message edited by: ElizaQ ]

quote:

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That said, Powell is still complicit in the war. He was the man who built up the case for war in front of the UN. He now says he regrets that speech.

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quote:

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I have no doubt in my mind that he was livid behind the scenes/and angry at himself for that embarrassment.

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quote:

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Originally posted by babblerwannabe:

i think its because of his background that he needs to be more blunt about the fact that there's nothing wrong with being a muslim, thats the change from politicans that i can believe in.

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I know that's stupid, but the US is a stupid place, and anyone running for office has to take account of it

quote:

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
Right. He would have sent 400,000 US troops to "pacify" the Iraqis instead of Bush's measly 100,000.

And as we all know, the war would have gone just swell if only the US had committed enough troops to crush the Iraqi resistance earlier.

Smart guy that Powell!

---

Powell tried to convince Bush not to go to war in Iraq, citing the potential for secular violence. Once it was clear the war was going ahead, he asked for more troops than Rumsfeld (who we both agree is an idiot) wanted. He then stayed on to combat Rumsfeld's defense department.

He probably should have resigned earlier. He certainly shouldn't have delivered the causus belli speech at the UN.

More troops would have made a huge difference. Early looting would have been contained, and there would have been room to rebuild infrastructure, rather than having the army simply stand back and seeing Iraq stripped of water, electricity, security... The course of the first two years of the war feuled the insurgency in the next two.

While he's swinging, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle and Rice should be having their nooses attached.

[ 21 October 2008: Message edited by: al-Qa'bong ]

quote:

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Originally posted by brookmere:
Sadly, I think that if Obama took it upon himself to press the issue many people would take it as an tacit admission that he was in fact a Muslim.

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You mean, the more he screams "I am not a Muslim!!!!!!", the more many U.S. voters will believe that he is a Muslim - right? He's fucked.

quote:

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I know that's stupid, but the US is a stupid place, and anyone running for office has to take account of it

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So he's so smart and good, but the people are stupid and vicious and xenophobic, so he has to pander to that. But, just like Colin Powell, he can soothe himself in private that he is really a fine, virtuous person, not at all like the pandering creep he tries so hard to pretend to be in public.

I love these two guys more and more and more the more I think this through. God, it must be rough, lowering yourself to the level of the [uggghhhhhhhhhhh] people.

quote:

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Whatever their faults, the Democrats are a party of religious inclusiveness and don't have to prove anything in that area. They now have the US's first and only Muslim congressman BTW.
.

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All they have to prove is that Obama is not a Muslim - and they do so by having him run around saying, "I am not a Muslim!!!!"

Hey - wait a sec - didn't an earlier president run around saying:

quote:

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You mean, the more he screams "I am not a Muslim!!!!!!", the more many U.S. voters will believe that he is a Muslim - right? He's fucked.

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quote:

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Originally posted by jrootham:
Not by US standards of right wing freakedness

---

Realy?

Powell was chairman ofthe joint chiefs of staff
part of the coalition of the willing to invade iraq

lied to the world at the un

only after he left did he say ooppps i have sinned

a real leader would have stood his ground in the cabinet room

No wait he was in favour of invading Iraq and making up evidence while in office

Powell is worse than many because he not only drank the kool aid but he lies to the US people on to serve his own self interst.

Powell is a murderous thug from the right that should be tried as a war criminal.

He is as right as most of the us thugs when it comes to abortion, capital punishment, being held without a trial, and imposition of secret trials etc

but no Powell is a saint and should be praised for backing Obama!!

Bullshit Powell is a thug and is part of the radical far right.

He is no difference than Dick Cheney the man he worked for during the 80's 90's and 2000's

As for the current Obama endorsements by neocons (including Chris Hitchens and Charles Krauthammer)--and hawks such as Powell. Ken Silverstein sums up my sentiments:

quote:

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October 21, 8:42 AM, 2008 ·
Endorsement Fever: This is good news?

By Ken Silverstein

Colin Powell and Ken Adelman have endorsed Obama, and that’s supposed to be reassuring? Normally I’d take an endorsement by one of those guys and run in the other direction.
[....]
McCain’s foreign policy crew has quite a few cranks (William Kristol, to state the most obvious) and his policies are generally scarier than Obama’s. Agreed. But having Powell and Adelman sign up with the Obama movement is about as uplifting as when Obama endorsed ballistic missile defense (the scaled down version of Star Wars) during the second debate. It’s conservatives who should be cheering.

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Although McCain was the neoconservative choice for president 8 years ago (before Bush triumphed in the primaries), many of his former supporters have perceived a deterioration of McCain's faculties that could make the influencing of this volatile and impaired figure problematic. Therefore, Obama, who will be savaged if he deviates from the playbook (he himself has largely adopted) is the logical interim choice for many.

[ 22 October 2008: Message edited by: contrarianna ]

quote:

---

Originally posted by miles:

Realy?

Powell was chairman ofthe joint chiefs of staff
part of the coalition of the willing to invade iraq

lied to the world at the un

only after he left did he say ooppps i have sinned

a real leader would have stood his ground in the cabinet room

No wait he was in favour of invading Iraq and making up evidence while in office

he is a right wing freak by anyones standards

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lord Palmerston:

I agree - Powell was a key figure in the Iraq war.

---

Both Iraq wars - and the butchery of the retreating Iraqi army in 1991.

And the invasion of Panama and the slaughter of thousands of Panamians in 1989.

And Ronald Reagan's National "Security" Advisor.

quote:

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Barack Obama would like to bring Colin Powell into his new administration. But Americans consider Powell only marginally more credible than how the rest of the world views him, and the rest of the world thinks he lies like a rug. Powell either wholeheartedly backed the biggest crime thus far this century, or he secretly opposed it but worked to make it happen anyway. I'm not sure which is worse, but either disqualifies him for future office. - David Swanson

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I'm not sure his endorsement will, or was intended, to help Barak Obama. It will hurt McCain, and the motivation was to help, as always, Colin Powell.

[ 22 October 2008: Message edited by: Tommy_Paine ]