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Author Topic: Gold Standard vs. Floating Currencies
arborman
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posted 29 October 2007 01:22 PM      Profile for arborman     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I don't know anything about the merits of one currency model versus the other. I'm curious if anyone has opinions (preferably backed up by evidence) of the relative progressive or anti-progressive impact of adopting/abandoning a gold standard?
From: I'm a solipsist - isn't everyone? | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 29 October 2007 02:09 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's a complex subject as we understand from other discussions. But I think we could use the same system of credits and debits that are used now and ultimately backed by the federal government. http://bankslovedebt.com/
From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Stephen Gordon
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posted 29 October 2007 02:39 PM      Profile for Stephen Gordon        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by arborman:
I don't know anything about the merits of one currency model versus the other. I'm curious if anyone has opinions (preferably backed up by evidence) of the relative progressive or anti-progressive impact of adopting/abandoning a gold standard?

We've had quite a bit of experience with the gold standard; no-one seems to want to go back there. The Bretton Woods system of fixed exchange rates died when international capital markets got large enough to overwhelm central banks.

These days, the only choices for countries such as Canada are the 'two corners': floating freely or a 'hard peg', which amounts to adopting another country's currency.

As to whether or not which is more progressive, the only thing that matters is the effect on inflation. The costs of inflation are regressive: rich people have greater access to assets that shield them from the effects inflation. If you have a floating currency, you'd want a central bank committed to a low inflation policy. If you have a hard peg, you want to peg it to a country that has a low inflation policy.


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Fidel
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posted 29 October 2007 05:45 PM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Yes, and Stephen's favourite Canadian author had something to say about gold standard. In so many words, thank goodness we're not enslaved to the gold standard as workers were before WWI. Since that time, tens of thousands of Canadians were martyred by a terrible economic depression, no thanks to the former capitalist setup called "laissez-faire" And then tens of thousands more were martyred in WWII. Workers had no one advocating their economic interests.

That was until the federal Liberals under Mackenzie King nationalised the Bank of Canada and brought significant amounts of money creation under control of the feds to pay for the war effort and important infrastructure and social spending that would become the norm from 1938 to 1974. And then a Canadian economist proposed floating our dollar against all other currencies. All western countries followed suit eventually.

But now the feds are, once again, claiming they are impotent to act in the interests of workers and ordinary people. Economist Pierre Fortin says that international money markets are powerful, yes. But he argues that

quote:
"...we can have the kind of employment-creating economic policies if we want - even if they are not exactly what the financial community wants - provided that we accept the consequences of a fluctuating dollar (that is, the rise or fall in our exchange rate) The problem, Fortin insists, is that members of the financial community don't want a lower dollar. After all, they've spent billions of dollars buying Canadian government bonds, which are denominated in Canadian dollars. If the dollar drops in value, those bomds are suddenly worth less, in terms of other currencies". . .

"It's a question of the bond salesmen defending the interests of the those they've sold bonds to", says Fortin -- Linda McQuaig, The Cult of Impotence, p. 253


Of course, the Bay Street commentators will never point out this conflict of interest.

[ 29 October 2007: Message edited by: Fidel ]


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 07 November 2007 11:45 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Actually, inflation's effects are not totally regressive, because it tends to erode the value of assets, which the rich draw upon to generate their incomes. This is why bonds tend to do poorly in inflationary environments, because the interest rate on them goes with the central bank's rate, which is usually pegged to be a bit higher than inflation (which then raises the question of whether central banks truly do "control" inflation, or just follow it along until something breaks. ).

It is fairer to say that the fall in the value of money affects people who can't find a mechanism of compensation for it.

Re gold standard.

The major issue with it has actually been raised by both economists of the left and the right. On the left it has been pointed out that the gold standard, in requiring that the currency maintain a fixed value relative to gold, tends to promote policies that depress wages and raise unemployment. A classic example of this is what happened when Britain tried going back on the gold standard at the pre-World War I level, and as part of the requirements, wanted the miners to accept lower wages. They, of course, did not want this, and went on strike.

On the right, it has been pointed out that uncontrolled gold flows can play havoc with a government's requirement to maintain a fixed link to the currency's gold exchange value. Spain is the clearest example of this, where so much gold poured into that country that prices began to rise across the board. In microcosm, in the USA, centers of "gold rushes" almost always experienced inflationary bursts as people would pour in and the demand for food, etc would increase.

So the gold standard is not necessarily the "best" inflation control mechanism either.

Bretton Woods FTW.


From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Red Partisan
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posted 07 November 2007 01:26 PM      Profile for Red Partisan        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I was wondering about the gold standard myself.

I guess there are some pretty smart people here who are thinking about Gresham's Law.

Anyway, there is this absolutely awesome site about gold, and although it is bearish on US dollars, it is not particularly gold-buggish either. They did advise to buy at $390 an ounce (US), and they were right about that, for certain.

The site is here:

http://www.galmarley.com/

Here's a thought, if bad money drives good money out of circulation, doesn't that mean we are destined to use US dollars as a token currency in Canada?


From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged
The Wizard of Socialism
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posted 07 November 2007 01:39 PM      Profile for The Wizard of Socialism   Author's Homepage        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
"Gold. Everything else is a hope or promise." Chiun, Master of Sinanju.

[ 07 November 2007: Message edited by: The Wizard of Socialism ]


From: A Proud Canadian! | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Red Partisan
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posted 07 November 2007 01:58 PM      Profile for Red Partisan        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
For sure, if you have some gold, you won't be left broke if there is a major economic meltdown. The question is, how much?

One gold bug was saying that it is still trading about 40% below its real value, and $1,000 US an ounce should be easy.


From: Toronto | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged
Toby Fourre
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posted 07 November 2007 03:25 PM      Profile for Toby Fourre        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just a side note to this: there is a great need for gold in modern electronics. I suspect that the industrial need for gold is enough to really screw up any practical notion of returning to a gold standard.
From: Death Valley, BC | Registered: Oct 2006  |  IP: Logged
DrConway
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posted 08 November 2007 11:24 AM      Profile for DrConway     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
As far as the fragility of the world economy is concerned, have a gander at a review of Peter Warburton's "Debt and Delusion". You can't buy it anymore, apparently, but it should be in your library.
From: You shall not side with the great against the powerless. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Fidel
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posted 08 November 2007 11:42 AM      Profile for Fidel     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
There is an interesting thing which Linda McQuaig tells us in her book Cult of Impotence. Before WWI, workers had no one advocating for their interests in government. Government's hands were pretty much tied wrt maintaing the value of our money wrt to world price of gold. Capital was fully mobile, and workers had no choice but to accept austere measures to maintain the value of the dollar wrt gold.

Then voting rights and democracy happened after Canadians were martyred by a severe economic depression. They were martyred again by another world war. JM Keynes said that governments had a responsibility to maintain employment levels for the benefit of people. And that's what they did until the 1970's.

Today, the rights of capital are being maintained at the expense of workers once again. Profit margins are in decline as productivity increases. Workers and capitalists no longer fight over dwindling shares of the national income pie, because its being concentrated in the hands of a few as it was before WWI and even moreso. But what's amazing about the refocussing of rights toward capital today is that it was done in the face of democracy and more voting rights than existed leading up to WWI. I think this is where the need for advanced democracy becomes apparent. We need electoral reform. If we continue like this with FPTP, we'll end up like Americans with half of voters staying away from the polls on election day.


From: Viva La Revolución | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
N.Beltov
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posted 08 November 2007 11:43 AM      Profile for N.Beltov   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
DrConway: ... Peter Warburton's "Debt and Delusion" ... You can't buy it anymore, apparently, but it should be in your library.

It may still be available over here ...

Debt and Delusion

Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee on Peter Warburton

There is also ...

The debasement of world currency: it is inflation,
but not as we know it by Peter Warburton

[ 08 November 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]


From: Vancouver Island | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged

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