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Topic: Arab AIDS Summit: No condoms & gays must repent

Hephaestion
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4795

posted 17 December 2004 02:20 PM

This is what happens when you let religious wackos dictate health care procedures...

quote:
(Cairo) Arab religious leaders debated methods to halt the spread of HIV/AIDS - a usually taboo subject in much of the conservative Arab world - but stopped short of recommending contraceptives.
More than 80 religious leaders, both Muslim and Christian, met at a UN-sponsored conference on HIV/AIDS and acknowledged "the medical call for the use of different preventive means,'' but would neither name nor endorse the use of contraceptives that the United Nations recommends as a means to cut infection rates.
"It is not that easy to challenge centuries of certain positions,'' said Khadija Moalla, an official with the UN Development Program who focuses on the Arab world.

From: goodbye... :-( | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged

Anchoress
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4650

posted 17 December 2004 02:24 PM

The article wasn't completely clear (since it mentions Muslim and Christian leaders), but it sounds as though there is an anti-contraception sensibility in the Arab Muslim world? If this is true, it's the first I've heard of it. Any idea as to the justification for this position?

From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003 | IP: Logged

Mandos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 888

posted 17 December 2004 02:25 PM

In most of the world, including the Arab Muslim world, there is an anti-contraception mentality.

From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged

Anchoress
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4650

posted 17 December 2004 02:26 PM

Do you know what is the justification for it? Is it an interpretation of the Q'ran? Or is it from the same parts of the Old Testament that Christians use?

From: Vancouver babblers' meetup July 9 @ Cafe Deux Soleil! | Registered: Nov 2003 | IP: Logged

Sara Mayo
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3714

posted 17 December 2004 02:30 PM

That article, aparently written by Associated Press, reads like something written by government censors. Why do they write about "contraceptives" without using the word condom even once?!? It's quite ironic to see the promotion of "contraceptives" on a gay site!!!

From: "Highways are monuments to inequality" - Enrique Penalosa | Registered: Feb 2003 | IP: Logged

Mandos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 888

posted 17 December 2004 02:53 PM

Not sure. There is no formal prohibition on contraception in Islam. Some people feel sterilization is prohibited, but I'm not sure if the justification is appropriately direct. As I understand it, it's well established and accepted that coitus interruptus ("azl") is perfectly permissible (no Old Testament hangup there), and from this one can extrapolate that other barrier methods (ie condoms) are permitted too. That people may simply want recreational sex has always been acknowledged, so long as it does mess up family structure (ie within a religiously lawful marriage)---sex is part of what keeps people together. These things aren't really controversial.

It's really a cultural thing. There were once economic advantages to having more children, and on a micro level there still may be. There's a lot of prestige from having children. There's a fear that the West wants to control Muslim reproduction in order to prevent Muslims from being a greater part of the world's population than they already are. Childbearing as a form of protest, in a weird sense, against particular rulers. The Palestinian matter. And so on and so forth. So it spills over into the rhetoric of religious leaders.

From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged

Blind_Patriot
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3830

posted 17 December 2004 04:27 PM

I always thought that contraception was forbidden in Islam. But then again, like you said Mandos, it probably a cultural thing.

From: North Of The Authoritarian Regime | Registered: Mar 2003 | IP: Logged

Mandos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 888

posted 17 December 2004 04:30 PM

Even in Iran they distribute condoms. As I understand it, permanent contraception is the controversial aspect.

However, in the case of HIV, it is obvious to religious entities that HIV wouldn't be transferred if everyone kept to licit sex, recreational or not. Consequently, they take it as reinforcement for their position on licit sex as opposed to safe sex.

From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged

WingNut
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 1292

posted 17 December 2004 04:41 PM

Hmmm, Bush, the religious right, Islamic puritanicalism, seems to be a converging of religious madness, no?

From: Out There | Registered: Aug 2001 | IP: Logged

swallow
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2659

posted 17 December 2004 09:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Mandos:
In most of the world, including the Arab Muslim world, there is an anti-contraception mentality.

You think? I'm not at all sure most of the world feels that way. Contraception seems pretty accepted in China. Anyone know what Hindu religious authorities teach about this?

From: fast-tracked for excommunication | Registered: May 2002 | IP: Logged

Phonicidal
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 7635

posted 17 December 2004 10:33 PM

quote:
Originally posted by swallow:
Contraception seems pretty accepted in China.

It's my understanding that public awareness campaigns in China were launched to combat AIDS precisely for the reason that contraception was not being used and AIDS rates were skyrocketting. Remember SARS? China kept that baby under their hat for months. It only came out when they could no longer manage to save face by keeping it to themselves.

Incidentally, I don't think the failure to use protection always constitutes "anti-contraception". We can't expect somebody to use a condom if they don't know the risks of not wearning one. But, I'll have to ask my friend who just arrived in China a few weeks ago. Maybe he can get a better sense of things from there than we can by speculating.

From: Thornhill, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 2004 | IP: Logged

Mandos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 888

posted 17 December 2004 10:57 PM

My understanding is that contraception is also deprecated in Hindu societies, as well as Catholic ones as we know. I mean, if you add up nonWestern Catholics, Muslims, Hindus, and whatever else, you get more than half the world where contraception is deprecated.

From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged

swallow
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 2659

posted 18 December 2004 12:07 AM

Well, admittedly i have no evidence from China other than anecdotal. I just don't have the sense that the global majority is (to use that awful Americanism) socially conservative. I've probably read too many tales by European adventurers about the loose morals of the majority of the world. My own sense is that contraception is frowned upon by religious authorities and parents who want to be grandparents, but it doesn't stop it from being widely used: so there's anti-contraception rhetoric, but not so much of an anti-contraception mentality.

From: fast-tracked for excommunication | Registered: May 2002 | IP: Logged

Mandos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 888

posted 18 December 2004 12:11 AM

Well, OK, there's an anti-contraception public morality. Privately, people may not actually follow this.

European depictions of everyone else's loose morals are, I think, at best only partially valid. It was to a great extent projection, I think.

From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged

Stockholm
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 3138

posted 18 December 2004 04:45 PM

quote:
In most of the world, including the Arab Muslim world, there is an anti-contraception mentality.

I'm not so sure about that. A quarter of the world's population is in China and in China you can get fined for NOT using contraception. The Indian government also encourages contraception a lot and the in North America, Europe and Japan, the birth rate is so low, that either the population is using contraceptive en masse, or people just aren't having any sex - which I doubt.

From: Toronto | Registered: Sep 2002 | IP: Logged

Mandos
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 888

posted 18 December 2004 04:55 PM

Europe and Japan are developed countries and them plus North America will and a few other places will get you about a billion.

China is by force of law. Do think that, say, the average Chinese peasant wouldn't have a lot of kids if it weren't for that policy?

Many governments encourage contraception including in the Arab and Muslim world, but the "public culture", local religious and cultural leaders, etc. are typically against it. Even if people do practice it in private.

From: There, there. | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged

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