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Author Topic: Daycare Solutions.
outlandist
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posted 02 October 2005 01:05 PM      Profile for outlandist        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Given the need to increase productivity to maintain standards of living and to compete nationally in the 21st century,what are the optimum solutions for child care,infant to preschool?

By increasing productivity and competing,I refer to an educated workforce able to compete in a globalised environment,not personal increases to retain employment.By changing the structure of society how can the nation address childcare to improve productivity,standard of living and quality of life?

Increase child tax credits?
Increase personal exemption on income tax?
Start school sooner?
Daycare in the workplace?
Working from the home?
Flexhours?
Tax funded daycare
Subsidised needs based daycare?


From: ontario | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Southlander
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posted 03 October 2005 02:26 AM      Profile for Southlander     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A parent at home with children of pre school age, and a part time worker with older children is only out of the workforce for a fairly short period of time. The loss of productivity here can be balanced againist the increased well being of parent/s and child afforded them by making this option financially available. Children who's parent/s were given this option will hopefully be better adjusted individuals, and better producers when they grow up.
I support affordable quality child care, but I also support affordable choice.

From: New Zealand | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Southlander
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posted 03 October 2005 02:45 AM      Profile for Southlander     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
i think children could be in school at four and a half, perhaps best suited to shorter days, or a four day week. Of course it depends on travel too. If they have a bus ride to school then it's too early. What age do they start? Is all Canada the same? In WA they start pre primary the year they turn 5, in Feburary. Four days a week. But they don't realy learn reading and writing until the next year. This works very well. But they've changed it now - you have to be 5 before 30th June. Hopefully they will start reading in that first year now.
In NZ you start on your 5th birthday, and spend 1 1/2 to 2 3/4 years in the lower grades. This works OK too, but I like the rigid cut off rule in WA better.
I realy don't like little kids in care for too long, when their parents arn't seeing much of them, and the children cry and sob when they are dropped off every morning.

From: New Zealand | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Wilf Day
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posted 03 October 2005 03:30 AM      Profile for Wilf Day     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Southlander:
In NZ you start on your 5th birthday, and spend 1 1/2 to 2 3/4 years in the lower grades.

In Ontario children start in September of the calendar year they turn 4, so a few kids start shortly before their fourth birthday, but the first two years they attend alternate days. They start full-time in September of the calender year they turn 6.

Most people want those two kindergarten years to become full-time. As it is, in most of our schools there is a day care attached to the school or nearby, so the same group of kids are at school one day and at day care the next.

A lot of people like their kids to start daycare at least part-time when they're three, even if granny or a neighbour is available, for socialization.


From: Port Hope, Ontario | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Raos
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posted 03 October 2005 04:37 AM      Profile for Raos     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I started kindergarten in Alberta a few months after I turned 5.
For Kindergarten we had half days, either AM or PM, which lasted for a year, and after that (at age 6 for me) you started full days in grade 1 learning reading, writing, math, and all the other academic stuff.

From: Sweet home Alaberta | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
kuri
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posted 03 October 2005 10:17 AM      Profile for kuri   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Kindergarten has become more about hard learning and less about play in the past 10 years or so. I come from a family of teachers and my mother is responsible for kindergarten readiness and it requires much more than it used to. Most kids don't have the maturity at age 4 or 5 to sit still and start learning to read and write and I tend to think that it's better to give them an environment that's more play based, but it is possible to repeat kindergarten. In fact it's usually better to repeat kindergarten (where there isn't much of a stigma about repeated - amongst the kids anyway) than to be thrown into Grade One before they're ready. A number of parents object to this though.

quote:
I realy don't like little kids in care for too long, when their parents arn't seeing much of them, and the children cry and sob when they are dropped off every morning.

If the care is good, they will only do this the first couple of times. Even at kindergarten age, it's not uncommon to see children being afraid of the teachers at first and then sobbing because they have to leave their teacher at the end of the school year.

As for the OP, the problem with child care from a productivity standpoint isn't only with the existence of children. A lot of it comes from the attitudes of employers that make it difficult for parents to return to the workforce after taking time out to raise children. I think more parents (and I believe this option should be available to both fathers and mothers who choose it) would take time out to raise their small children if they could be certain that there will be opportunities to re-enter the workforce afterwards.


From: an employer more progressive than rabble.ca | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
FrenchGrrl
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posted 03 October 2005 10:46 AM      Profile for FrenchGrrl     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In France, Kindergarden starts in september of the calendar year the child turns 3, and as far as I can remember it is full time. It's voluntary and free. When I went through it, I think it was more like daycare than school, we did mostly drawings and games I think, now it's a little more like school: kids will probably know how to write their first name by the time they go to grade 1 (the calendar year they turn 6). Another thing is that kids stay in school for longer days in France, until 4:30 or 5:30, even in Kindergarden. It makes it a lot easier on working parents. Personnaly I think it's a good system (but I'm a little biased having grown up there). I don't think it's bad for the kids to be at "school" all day even young, none of the people I know remember suffering from it...
From: Ottawa | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
outlandist
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posted 03 October 2005 01:00 PM      Profile for outlandist        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
In Europe,larger industries have sports and social facilities as a part of the company.

Given that valuable employees are difficult to replace,would it be beneficial for both employer and employee for employers to provide on site child care where parents could interact with children during the work day?

I listened to a CBC radio program which featured several women who worked from the home.One was a senior IBM manager and another a telemarketer.Technology has advanced to provide the tools for some employees to work from the home.

From the parent's point of view,the ability to interact with children during their work day is beneficial to them.

From the employer's point of view,productivity would increase because a valued employee is still available and focussed on their duties,secure that their child is close at hand.

Standard of living,quality of life and productivity are under threat from a rapidly changing world where globalisation can quickly render an economy redundant.

Canada needs to invest in children.If subsidised or universal childcare is provided,innovative solutions are needed.


From: ontario | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Southlander
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posted 04 October 2005 05:04 AM      Profile for Southlander     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Does anyone else object to children under 18 months being in long time daycare?
OH and I love work based care, great idea.

From: New Zealand | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
letitbleed
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posted 04 October 2005 06:37 AM      Profile for letitbleed        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Of course, work based care is feasible for large companies with adequate facilities, but impractical for medium and small companies. Hence, I believe a tax credit is the best way to allow parents to spend child care dollars in a way appropriate for their location. Direct subsidies should be made available for those households who can't afford care. Give people choice.

I'm against the Canadian govt directly operating daycare centres as in the current programme. It will likely be another inefficient, wasteful govt bureaucracy. And it reduces choice and options. In this case, the govt can't respond quickly enough to the childcare needs of the market. Allow private sector to set up day care and spend govt dollars on inspection and monitoring.


From: vancouver | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fed
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posted 04 October 2005 12:48 PM      Profile for Fed        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Perhaps we also need to look at it from the work-end of things as well as the child end of things.

I've been reading a bit about micro-enterprises. These are extremely small businesses that can be run from home. In the case of lower income families, it is sometimes too much of a bite out of the family income to have one parent forgo all income generating opportunities to be with the kidlets. Such micro-enterprises help to mitigate the financial impact of a stay-at-home parent.

However, there are barriers to entry that could be lowered or eliminated.

e.g. One fellow I know has been agitating to change the laws related to hair dressing in Oklahoma---apparently you have to take a course a few weeks long in the proper handling of chemicals related to dying and perming before you get a hairdressing license. But if you are not going to offer perms and dying, just hair cuts, you still have to take the course. He argues that this causes a barrier to poor people who want to set up a micro-business of offering just hair cuts. They won't be offering perm & dye services, so why should they have to pay to take the chemical handling course.

Another example would be micro-credit. Let's say you know how to sew thanks to a high school home-ec course. You want to be able to offer trouser hemming and alterations from home. But you need a layout table and a sewing machine and you don't have $1000 for it. No bank is going to lend you that small an amount of money if you have no credit rating. Where do you go? How about a community-based micro-credit agency?

Yet another would be zoning laws as a deterrent to micro-businesses. Sure you don't want really high volumes of traffic in residential neighbourhoods, but zoning laws could be tweaked to allow some home-based businesses.


From: http://babblestrike.lbprojects.com/ | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
kuri
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posted 04 October 2005 12:57 PM      Profile for kuri   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Fed:
No bank is going to lend you that small an amount of money if you have no credit rating. Where do you go? How about a community-based micro-credit agency?

Actually, I know that concept has been very useful to women in developing countries, allowing them a good level of independence while rearing children. A co-operative micro-credit agency could be very good in Canada as well if managed in the interests of members and the experience of running a business could go some way towards mitigating the attitude employers have towards parents who want to re-enter the workforce after taking some time off to raise small children.


From: an employer more progressive than rabble.ca | Registered: Jun 2003  |  IP: Logged
outlandist
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posted 04 October 2005 01:37 PM      Profile for outlandist        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Excellent ideas on home based businesses that are labour intensive,sewing,haircuts etc.Theses services are expensive for a larger business to provide but fit well with a home based business in a child rearing situation.

As well,it allows the parent a creative interaction with others as a break from the children.

It would also increase self esteem to be a contributor other than as a parent.I'm really walking the plank here but would this not also address post partum depression for the parent to focus on something other than the child in an environment where they still have supervision?

Although tax credits may be beneficial,how can it be structured to provide the benefit as child specific?


From: ontario | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Aristotleded24
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posted 04 October 2005 02:29 PM      Profile for Aristotleded24   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by letitbleed:
I'm against the Canadian govt directly operating daycare centres as in the current programme.

Then you have nothing to worry about. The agreement that Manitoba signed with the feds means Manitoba gets to extend its existing programs within the framework of national guidelines. The provinces and community groups within, not the feds, are the ones responsible for implementing and running this thing.


From: Winnipeg | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Fed
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posted 04 October 2005 03:50 PM      Profile for Fed        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
outlandist wrote:

quote:
I'm really walking the plank here but would this not also address post partum depression for the parent to focus on something other than the child in an environment where they still have supervision?

Could indeed be for some, but PPD is only partially caused by such outside factors. Believe it is mostly caused by otherwise hormone fluctuations post-partum that go off the rails somehow.

Nevertheless, not a bad suggestion. My own Mother really felt isolated staying at home with me and my bro when we were kidlets. Wasn't exactly PPD, but was some form of what you are talking about.


From: http://babblestrike.lbprojects.com/ | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged

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