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» babble   » walking the talk   » labour and consumption   » Another Candian company exploiting immigrant workers

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Author Topic: Another Candian company exploiting immigrant workers
windsorworker
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posted 17 September 2008 05:27 PM      Profile for windsorworker     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
This Guy is a real treat he has lost hundreds of thousands of dollars in arbitration cases and doesn't want to pay and now this..Presteve foods owner charged with 6 counts of sex assault
quote:
Plant owner charged
Leamington man facing six sex assault charges released Tuesday

WHEATLEY - The owner of Presteve Foods Ltd., Joe Pratas, has been charged with six counts of sexual assault after representatives of CAW Local 444 took four current and two discharged Presteve employees to Chatham-Kent police on Sunday.

Local 444 president Rick Laporte said Tuesday the union became concerned while conducting interviews into the recent firing of four workers.

"In the process we stumbled over some information of inappropriate behaviour," Laporte said as he and other union supporters gathered outside the fish processing plant on Erie Street.

An arbitration hearing in May resolved a dispute over hiring foreign workers, Laporte said, adding there are 34 workers from Thailand and four from Mexico at Presteve, with many living in a bunkhouse attached to the plant.


Also just today an investigation into the bunk houses where the workers lived found a sickening sight bunk beds stacked in a very small room , rat and mice feces ,the bunk house was imediatly declared unsafe and closed .The workers were sent to local motels to stay.

[ 17 September 2008: Message edited by: windsorworker ]


From: windsor | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
bob123
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posted 18 September 2008 05:27 AM      Profile for bob123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
hey, where did you get your facts from?? i disagree with some facts you posted!
From: somewhere | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 18 September 2008 06:44 AM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
If you think you have facts in conflict with those posted, I'd suggest you submit them - along with your source, if possible.
From: ... | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
bob123
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posted 18 September 2008 07:09 AM      Profile for bob123     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
with regards to the bunk house, you ever think about the idea that the immigrants living there are slobs and dont clean their place of residence? talking to employees at presteve, they tell me at the time of the inspection, there were tons of dirty pots, pans and dishes in the kitchen area. yes, maybe there are too many people in the bunker amd few fire exits, but with regards to the cleanliness; all the responsibilites belong to the immigrants..dont you agree?
also, the union is blowing everything out of proportion!!

From: somewhere | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
munroe
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posted 18 September 2008 03:52 PM      Profile for munroe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
And another ,,, check it friend,... damn foreigners don't wash the dishes, send them home!!!!

GMAFB!


From: Port Moody, B.C. | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged
munroe
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posted 18 September 2008 03:54 PM      Profile for munroe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
http://tinyurl.com/42ys95

Sorry, I dropped the link.


From: Port Moody, B.C. | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
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posted 18 September 2008 04:12 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hi Bob maybe you missed the point of this forum. I suggest you leave now before you really embarrass yourself. You have stumbled into a part of the internet where the people here actually believe in dignity and respect for others.

So since you seem to think you know the facts tell me how big was the kitchen, how many people shared the same kitchen, was there working hot water, how much counter space was there for cooking and cleaning, how many mice were resident in the shack before it became a bunkhouse, how about rats, was there a washer and dryer available to wash clothes, how many hours a day did the workers work, how big was the fridge, are you a bachelor, if yes may I inspect your house when 3 dozen of your buddies have been over for a week. .

Any ways just a few things I thought you might like to clarify. I personally was offended by your remarks about the workers brought here and given hovels to live in. For you to place blame on them tells me you really need to read about issues around globalization and racism and imperialism. There are lots of old threads that you could start with right here on babble. I hope you educate yourself to the realities of the world we live in. Have a nice day and don't let the door hit you on the way out.


From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
bigcitygal
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posted 18 September 2008 04:20 PM      Profile for bigcitygal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
bob123 is gone.
From: It's difficult to work in a group when you're omnipotent - Q | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
munroe
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posted 18 September 2008 04:32 PM      Profile for munroe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
On the issue, we are getting the tip of the iceberg. The attitude to "Guest workers" in this country of invaders and immigrants is "shut the door after us - we're alright Jack" attitude. The result is exploitation and poverty.

It is today's promise of the "golden mountain". No future apology will be in trade for ending this now.


From: Port Moody, B.C. | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged
joe macdonald
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posted 19 September 2008 10:29 AM      Profile for joe macdonald        Edit/Delete Post
just in....i heard from an employee at presteve foods that the thai girls cant wait to get back to the bunker. they are staying at the sun parlor motel in leamington and hate it.
so now what, huh?

From: windsor | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
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posted 19 September 2008 10:32 AM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by joe macdonald:
just in....i heard from an employee at presteve foods that the thai girls cant wait to get back to the bunker. they are staying at the sun parlor motel in leamington and hate it.
so now what, huh?


How old are the Thai "girls" and which manager are you quoting?

From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 19 September 2008 10:34 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Hey joe, getting banned does not mean "Hi, I'm re-registered and posting offensive shit again!"

Do it again and I'll be notifying your internet service provider. Just to be explicit: You are no longer welcome to post on this forum with any account.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
PFL
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posted 19 September 2008 11:17 AM      Profile for PFL        Edit/Delete Post

[ 19 September 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: Wheatley | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 19 September 2008 11:44 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You know what? Piss off. You've been banned twice and now you're being banned again. And I'm deleting your post so you don't get the satisfaction from your little stunt.

Don't come back again.

For everyone else's information? All three banned accounts in this thread (joe macdonald, bob123, and PFL) are from the same IP address.

[ 19 September 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
captiain kirk
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posted 19 September 2008 11:58 AM      Profile for captiain kirk        Edit/Delete Post
i have a feeling that michelle isnt on presteve foods side and is banning anyone who mentions anything positive about them.
Michelle, are you afraid of the truth?
And for me saying this, I will be banned.
Michelle, do you feel more powerful each time you ban people for talking the truth?

From: kingsville | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 19 September 2008 12:14 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by captiain kirk:
And for me saying this, I will be banned.
Please step this way, into the air-lock.

From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 19 September 2008 12:15 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Same IP address, everyone. Clearly management from Presteve Foods. Judge this accordingly, including the first post in this thread where one of them called the "immigrants" a bunch of "slobs".

Stupid move, using your real e-mail address to sign up for babble. You just outed all of these accounts as management from the plant by using the same computer for all four of them.

Duh.

But please do keep on keeping on, and saying all sorts of offensive things about your workers - I'm sure it'll really help things along in your dispute now that everyone knows who you are here.

[ 19 September 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pogo
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posted 19 September 2008 12:20 PM      Profile for Pogo   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post

From: Richmond BC | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Polunatic2
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posted 19 September 2008 12:21 PM      Profile for Polunatic2   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I guess they're in hot water and their goose is cooked.
From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
captiain kirk
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posted 19 September 2008 12:23 PM      Profile for captiain kirk        Edit/Delete Post
you ever think about the idea that the immigrants living there are slobs and dont clean their place of residence?

LOOK AT WHAT I SAID...I NEVER CALLED THEM SLOBS, I SAID 'YOU EVER THINK ABOUT THE IDEA...' PLEASE RE-READ AND DO NOT TRY TO MAKE ME SAY THINGS IM NOT!
THANK YOU...


From: kingsville | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
writer
editor emeritus
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posted 19 September 2008 12:27 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Kirk, take the teleporter, quick. You are in alien territory, where workers' rights are taken very seriously, and adults are treated like, well, adults - and not girls.

[ 19 September 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 19 September 2008 12:28 PM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh FFS, unreal, seriously.
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 19 September 2008 12:33 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Yup. That's why I'm letting them continue, so that people can see just what the management there are stooping to.

[ 19 September 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
mr spock1237384
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posted 19 September 2008 12:34 PM      Profile for mr spock1237384        Edit/Delete Post

[ 19 September 2008: Message edited by: mr spock1237384 ]


From: wheatley | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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Babbler # 560

posted 19 September 2008 12:36 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Okay, fine. Repost what you wrote. I'll leave it up this time.

[ 19 September 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
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posted 19 September 2008 12:37 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I wonder how much of her employer"s time she spends on the internet or whether she has been directed to this role recently and would never do personal stuff on company time except when told.
From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
Left J.A.B.
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posted 19 September 2008 12:42 PM      Profile for Left J.A.B.     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You are a disgrace to yourself and your comapny with these childish attacks.
I will be ensuring that my friends in the resturant trade here in Ontario know to not buy your products and to let them know about your behaviour here.
Please desist before you make things worse. If that is even possible now.

[ 19 September 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: 4th and Main | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
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posted 19 September 2008 12:43 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by kropotkin1951:
So since you seem to think you know the facts tell me how big was the kitchen, how many people shared the same kitchen, was there working hot water, how much counter space was there for cooking and cleaning, how many mice were resident in the shack before it became a bunkhouse, how about rats, was there a washer and dryer available to wash clothes, how many hours a day did the workers work, how big was the fridge.
You want to play then answer the questions I put to you that were direct and would flesh out the luxury of the accommodations provided.

From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
mr spock1237384
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posted 19 September 2008 12:44 PM      Profile for mr spock1237384        Edit/Delete Post
Hey by the way Michelle you obivously did not read the Private Policy of babble did ya?
From: wheatley | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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Babbler # 560

posted 19 September 2008 12:49 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by mr spock1237384:
Hey by the way Michelle you obivously did not read the Private Policy of babble did ya?

Sure I did:

quote:
We reserve the right to suspend posters who have provided false information for their profile. We reserve the right to reveal your identity (or whatever information we know about you) in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any message posted by you.

I got a complaint from babblers here. Furthermore, you kept coming back with new accounts after being explicitly told not to.

And you're a management shill who pretended otherwise in order to post racist shit about your employees here. Most people aren't stupid enough to use their company e-mail when they do stuff like that, however.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
bagkitty
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posted 19 September 2008 12:49 PM      Profile for bagkitty     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I love the smell of boycott in the morning.
From: Calgary | Registered: Aug 2008  |  IP: Logged
writer
editor emeritus
Babbler # 2513

posted 19 September 2008 12:50 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Uh, you mean where it reads:

quote:
We reserve the right to suspend posters who have provided false information for their profile. We reserve the right to reveal your identity (or whatever information we know about you) in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any message posted by you. We reserve the right to read private messages when necessary to investigate complaints about inappropriate or abusive messages.

You are dreaming if you don't think there have been complaints.


From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
mr spock1237384
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posted 19 September 2008 12:57 PM      Profile for mr spock1237384        Edit/Delete Post
For one i used my real information so no violation there and for 2 the complaints where not from my posts and what complaints are you people referring to anyway. For real what has been said here that is so offensive to you people please let me know because i am completely lost with your way of thinking. Doesn't everyone have a right to his or her own opinion and the right to express them right or wrong. Why would you start this sight if you didn't want people on here to argue with what you are writing?
From: wheatley | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
kropotkin1951
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posted 19 September 2008 01:04 PM      Profile for kropotkin1951   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by mr spock1237384:
For one i used my real information so no violation there and for 2 the complaints where not from my posts and what complaints are you people referring to anyway. For real what has been said here that is so offensive to you people please let me know because i am completely lost with your way of thinking. Doesn't everyone have a right to his or her own opinion and the right to express them right or wrong. Why would you start this sight if you didn't want people on here to argue with what you are writing?

Want to talk start by answering my questions. How about posting some pictures of those deluxe accommodations? On this site we hate employers who exploit vunerable workers especially when it includes sexual assault. The bunkhouse is bad enough but for you to defend an employer who sexually attacks his workers is below contempt.

So come on tell us how nice a guy he is.


From: North of Manifest Destiny | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged
mr spock1237384
recent-rabble-rouser
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posted 19 September 2008 01:20 PM      Profile for mr spock1237384        Edit/Delete Post
What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty. And obviously you know nothing about how the migrant workers live here in Leamington when they work for greenhouse workers. I have seen some of the places that they have to live in and what the Thialand ladies had here was the Ritz Carlton compared to what some of them have to live in when they come to work in Canada. They have a big kitchen with lost of counter space and 2 stoves and fridges the have 4 stand up showers and 4 bathroom sinks and 5 toliet stalls all brand new and installed they have washer and dryer for their clothes and yes they have hot water and since they have been staying at the motel they have been complaining that they want to come back because the conditions there are worse. Go figure that. Some migrant workers that come here have to shower in their kitchens with only a rubber curtain to divide them with an old cement floor to stand on how nice is that. Sure their conditions might have been tight but they worked in 2 shifts half the girls on days for 7 - 3:30 and the other half on afternoons from 3:30 -12:00 so the only time all 26 were in there was to sleep and on the week-ends.
The owner but a lot of time and money into renovating this place for them but it does not matter what i say you will draw your own conclusion and i am fine with that just as long as i had a chance to say our side.

From: wheatley | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
writer
editor emeritus
Babbler # 2513

posted 19 September 2008 01:21 PM      Profile for writer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Boo hoo hoo.
From: tentative | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
mr spock1237384
recent-rabble-rouser
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posted 19 September 2008 01:31 PM      Profile for mr spock1237384        Edit/Delete Post
To Writer I don't really understand your reply here. I thought this was a serious sight to talk about adult things in a serious manner but apparently I was mistaken.
From: wheatley | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
mr spock1237384
recent-rabble-rouser
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posted 19 September 2008 01:50 PM      Profile for mr spock1237384        Edit/Delete Post
well i guess no one wants to chat anymore so everyone have a good night and week-end.
PS keep those comments coming!!!!!!!!

[ 19 September 2008: Message edited by: mr spock1237384 ]


From: wheatley | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560

posted 19 September 2008 01:51 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by mr spock1237384:
For one i used my real information so no violation there and for 2 the complaints where not from my posts and what complaints are you people referring to anyway.

Actually, you raise a really good point. You did use your real information on the one account, and it was the other two accounts that people had a problem with and complained about, not yours. And I suppose there IS a possibility that other people started those accounts and not you.

So, fair enough. I will remove your name and e-mail from all of the posts other than your own, and you can choose to edit your own posts if you'd like to remove it from yours.

You can do that by clicking on this icon:

[ 19 September 2008: Message edited by: Michelle ]


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
mr spock1237384
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posted 19 September 2008 02:06 PM      Profile for mr spock1237384        Edit/Delete Post
Thank-you I appreciate it and for the record the other posts were NOT mine honestly.
From: wheatley | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
munroe
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posted 19 September 2008 03:15 PM      Profile for munroe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh my dear, another victim of the Rovian Harper machine!

GMAFB!!!!!!!!


From: Port Moody, B.C. | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 19 September 2008 03:44 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Presteve Foods Ltd. was hit with more than 50 orders from Ontario Ministry of Labour inspectors Thursday covering a wide range of alleged defects in the fish processing plant's equipment and buildings.

The orders cap a turbulent week in which the 67-year-old company owner Joe Pratas was charged Monday by Chatham-Kent police with six counts of sexual assault allegedly involving foreign female workers.

Labour inspectors called for a police escort to get into the plant Tuesday.

A crowded bunkhouse adjacent to the plant used by 26 female workers from Thailand was then ordered closed Tuesday by Chatham-Kent building inspectors.

Canadian Auto Workers Local 444 president Rick Laporte is now calling for an investigation into how the federal Seasonal Agricultural Workers Program is supervised.

Laporte said he discovered foreign workers in the plant also had passports and other personal documents held by management and were being charged for housing that should have been free.

The bunkhouse should have housed no more than 20 workers although there were beds for 36, Laporte said.

Laporte understood the bunkhouse was closed mainly for safety reasons because of fire hazards and an alarm system, which while working, wasn't an appropriate design for the building.

Presteve employs 34 women from Thailand. Two more are from Mexico and the rest of its 60 workers are Canadian. They work two shifts a day, mostly filleting fish, paid from $8.53 to $13.80 an hour.


read more...

From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
bruce_the_vii
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posted 19 September 2008 10:42 PM      Profile for bruce_the_vii     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Some how housing workers is shacks isn't what Canada is about.
From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
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posted 19 September 2008 11:08 PM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
It ain't? Don't visit Leamington. That would really burst your illusions.
From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
Doug
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posted 20 September 2008 03:35 AM      Profile for Doug   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
Same IP address, everyone. Clearly management from Presteve Foods.

How wonderfully professional.


From: Toronto, Canada | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Lard Tunderin' Jeezus
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posted 20 September 2008 04:53 AM      Profile for Lard Tunderin' Jeezus   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
How so?

It's useful information which provides necessary perspective.


From: ... | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 20 September 2008 05:50 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think he was referring to them, not me, LTJ.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
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posted 20 September 2008 05:56 AM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
There is an excellent documentary on migrant workers from the NFB.

http://www.nfb.ca/collection/films/fiche/?id=51087


From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
mr spock1237384
recent-rabble-rouser
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posted 20 September 2008 06:32 AM      Profile for mr spock1237384        Edit/Delete Post
Living in Leamington my whole life let me give you folks a little reality check. If you think there is no slavery in Canada anymore then come and visit the sunny south of Canada, Leamington. Starting in March our population almost doubles with the arrival of migrant workers. We get people from Mexico, St. Vincent Isl.St. Martin's Isl. Jamicia, Thailand, and other places from around the world. The reason for this is that apparently no Canadians want to work under the conditions that they do and for the $$ they make. Working in the greenhouses they make minimum wage with no over time until after 50 hours a week which is a federal law because farm labour does not get overtime until after 50 hours (feel free to look that up) Most of them live out of town on the farms in disgusting housing or in trailers or in rooms built right on to the greenhouses. They are herded into the back of steak trucks or buses to get to town to go shopping. If for any reason they caused a problem while they were here, say they stayed out late or got a Canadian girlfriend they would find themselves on their way home naever to return. They work in horrendous conditions and as the Canadian workers get to leave their work place and go home to their families the migrant workers must stay and contnue to work and the sleep there and then get up and work again (like slaves). So the next time you eat a hothouse tomato or cucumber or have some ketchup on your french fries, just think of these poor migrant workers who stay here for 8 months of the year and how much they suffer when they come here, only to make to lifestyle for their family at home better
From: wheatley | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 20 September 2008 06:39 AM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
That is indeed horrific and I thank you for sharing that perspective with us.

My question to you is, if you understand the exploitation that these people suffer, why defend Presteve Foods? I mean, I understand that people sometimes have to find work at places they don't agree with, so I don't blame you for that. But why go out of your way to defend the company's practices when you seem able to understand so well what kind of suffering the workers have gone through?


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
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posted 20 September 2008 06:48 AM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
As well, as per the documentary linked above, migrant workers must contribute part of their wages, as slim as they are, to federal programs to which they are entitled to no benefits. It is a horrendous situation for a country that likes to think of itself as above all that.

quote:
My question to you is, if you understand the exploitation that these people suffer, why defend Presteve Foods?

Yes, why?

From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
mr spock1237384
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posted 20 September 2008 06:55 AM      Profile for mr spock1237384        Edit/Delete Post
Because despite what you guys have read in the paper this is all CAW bullying. The owner would not in anyway co-operate with the CAW, and as most of the Canadian workers say, what right to the migrant workers have to dedcide the fate of the Canadian workers. You see they had a vote to get rid of the union there and mostly all of the Canadian workers did not want them there anymore. I guess i need to back track a little bit, the union had gone to court and because the Thailand girls had been there for over 3 months the union had them deemed union workers. Ok so back to what i was saying the Canadians were ready to vote the union out and they went and had a secret meeting with the Thailand workers and well because of their votes we lost. So what right do they have to decided Canadians fate again i ask. Some of these girls have been here for over 2 years they started with one year permitts and they beg to stay longer becasue they did not want to go home, so the owner after many hours and lost of corespondence back and forth with HRDC and the federal gov't and provincial and many meets with Dave Vankestern he final got everything approved and they got their one year extention and the after that year was over and it was almost their time to go home again the same thing the begged to stay and fought again for them to stay here. The union could not get into the plant so they ended up talking for days before these allegations came out with 5 Thailand girls that were living off premises and somehow orchestrated these bogus charges, which if this was really going on for 2 years do you thing they would asked and begged to stay another year. They do not have it bad there and they are not worked to bone like people have suggested the work their shift just like the Canadians. Michelle honestly this is all just BS. The day that the union came in on Tuesday, the contact all the media possible and fed them all this crap which they ate up like there was no tomorrow. The owner is innocent and will be proven so, it is just to bad that the union felt the need to go such lenghts to destroy a man who finally stood up to them.
From: wheatley | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 20 September 2008 07:05 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by mr spock1237384:
So the next time you eat a hothouse tomato or cucumber or have some ketchup on your french fries, just think of these poor migrant workers who stay here for 8 months of the year and how much they suffer when they come here, only to make to lifestyle for their family at home better
Oh, such compassion!

But you forgot to mention the part where the employer illegally keeps the passports and other legal documentation belonging to the employees, so that they can't leave, making them essentially feudal serfs entirely dependent on the employer.

Just like Presteve does - until it gets caught, like it did this week.


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
mr spock1237384
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posted 20 September 2008 07:12 AM      Profile for mr spock1237384        Edit/Delete Post
Oh Mr. Spector, he did not keep their [passports and other documents from them. When they came they had all signed a paper which was also written in thai saying that we would IF THEY WANTED TOO, keep their passports in the company safe to avoid them from getting lost or ruined it was a coutersy the owner offered to them for safe keeping of their documents not to keep them from them. which by the way they all signed) The union heard that they were in the safe so they turned it all around even though they had themselves seen the document in which they signed. If they wanted them, all they had to do was ask and the ones who wanted to leave had no problem getting their passports to go home. So there is your answer to that.
From: wheatley | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 20 September 2008 07:17 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh, how thoughtful of the employer.

Did the document happen to mention that this practice was illegal (in both English and Thai)?


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
mr spock1237384
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posted 20 September 2008 07:22 AM      Profile for mr spock1237384        Edit/Delete Post
And exactly how is that illegal?
They were not kept from them, when they wanted them they asked how do you think all the other ones got home. Don't be so ridiculous.

From: wheatley | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
Stargazer
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posted 20 September 2008 07:26 AM      Profile for Stargazer     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Okay, how long is this person staying? I mean seriously, what a horrendous individual. His faux concern is just that - fake. It is quite clear he is here to bash immigrants, bash unions and protect a sleazy company.

Can we not bid this person adieu?


From: Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist. | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 20 September 2008 07:30 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
I think we've established he's a she.
quote:
Based on pay stubs he's looked at, Laporte said significant amounts of wages were being withheld for housing, contrary to the seasonal worker regulations in Ontario.

The mostly female workers were being paid less than $9 an hour but on some pay stubs, Laporte said he saw a $140 deduction for housing. He's still trying to sort out the reasons for various deductions.

Laporte said passports have now been returned to all foreign workers, and only two still have complaints outstanding about personal documents being held.

According to the Human Resources Canada website explaining the seasonal workers program, "employers are not permitted to take away and keep workers' passports, medical cards or other personal documents for any reason. If this occurs, workers should contact their government liaison officer immediately."

The program also requires employers to provide free housing, except in British Columbia. Employers who provide meals to their foreign workers are allowed to deduct $6.50 per day.

Laporte said the bunkhouse provided by Presteve had stoves and fridges so the workers could cook their own meals.



From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 20 September 2008 07:33 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Wonderful, bad employer, doing wrong things, blames union for; the plight of his workers caused by him and his getting caught holding their passports.

However, this really brings up how the Liberals and now the CPC have created/sustained slavery conditions through the guest worker program.

Where are the media in exposing this travesty of the Liberals and Conservatives to Canadians?


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
mr spock1237384
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posted 20 September 2008 07:35 AM      Profile for mr spock1237384        Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Stargazer:
Okay, how long is this person staying? I mean seriously, what a horrendous individual. His faux concern is just that - fake. It is quite clear he is here to bash immigrants, bash unions and protect a sleazy company.

Can we not bid this person adieu?


Exactly how am i bashing the migrant workers? They are just victims of circumstance. They are being used by the union so the union can get their way, yes i am bashing the union and i have every reason to do so. If you know womething about this situation that i am not aware of please enlighten me.


From: wheatley | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 20 September 2008 07:36 AM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Apart from the local media, this story is getting no print coverage at all.

I think Jack Layton should be raising it in his speeches ASAP.


From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
mr spock1237384
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posted 20 September 2008 07:50 AM      Profile for mr spock1237384        Edit/Delete Post
And also think about it people where is the union to defend all these migrant workers in the greenhouses for the past 20 years. i mean if they are such humanitarians should they be doing something to help these people also or just because they are not union they do not deserve their help.
And Mr. Spectra it says that they can not be witheld, they were not witheld they were placed in a save place just if you or i were to ask a friend or family memeber to hold your important documents in their safe becasue you do not have one.

From: wheatley | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 20 September 2008 07:59 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The union tries to do something about it, and tries to get them unionized, and in turn exposes this whole exploitation scheme, and somehow apparently some believe it is the unions fault for this employer abusing his guest workers. Unbelievably warped thinking going on here.

The migrant workers are being victimized but not at the hands of the union. The circumstance of victimization was created by unsavory and exploitive employers. And again I say, unbelievably warped thinking going on here.


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
mr spock1237384
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posted 20 September 2008 08:03 AM      Profile for mr spock1237384        Edit/Delete Post
to remind
so you believe that people who are not Canadian and are here only on work permitts and will go home to their own countries in a year or a few months or 2 years should be able to decide what happens to the Canadain workers of the company who have been working there for years and will continue to work there long after the migrant workers have left. who has the warped thinking there?

From: wheatley | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 20 September 2008 08:30 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh my, you are actually speaking about the union hurting the employer's profit margins, not the workers. And again I say....
From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
mr spock1237384
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posted 20 September 2008 08:32 AM      Profile for mr spock1237384        Edit/Delete Post
what are you talking about, do you understand English?
From: wheatley | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
mr spock1237384
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posted 20 September 2008 08:40 AM      Profile for mr spock1237384        Edit/Delete Post
to remind
these migrant workers from the plant are aleady unionized, obivously you only read what you want to. The Canadian workers in the plant are pissed off because had it not been for the migrant workers at the vote the union would be out of there. Now how is that fair that they get to vote in the happenings of a Canadian company when they are not even Canadian. By the way are you?

From: wheatley | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
Frustrated Mess
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posted 20 September 2008 08:57 AM      Profile for Frustrated Mess   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
these migrant workers from the plant are aleady unionized

I don't believe there has been a decision handed down yet, but if anyone knows, perhaps they can detail it ....

quote:
Calling job conditions dirty, difficult and dangerous, three former co-workers from a mushroom plant are trying to change legislation and decades of labour relations history that prevents Ontario farm workers from unionizing.

While most Ontario workers have been allowed to join unions and engage in collective bargaining since 1943, farm workers have been largely excluded because agriculture has been seen as unique sensitive to time and weather, dominated by family farms and needed to ensure food production isn't disrupted by strikes.



http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/428070

From: doom without the gloom | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 20 September 2008 09:08 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by mr spock1237384:
do you understand English?

...how is that fair that they get to vote...when they are not even Canadian. By the way are you?



I think I understand English quite well.

If I am not Canadian, do you feel that I do not get a say, nor have a right to an opinion?


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
mr spock1237384
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posted 20 September 2008 09:17 AM      Profile for mr spock1237384        Edit/Delete Post
to remind
no i am not saying that you are not entiltled to your opinion, of course you are, but all i am saying ok let me put it to you this way, if i a Canadian cmae to your country your work place, worked there for a while and then a big decision regarding the future of your company was on the table and i was the deciding vote and i went against what the majority of your co-workers at your place of work wanted and left to go back to my own country how would you feel?

From: wheatley | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
mr spock1237384
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posted 20 September 2008 09:22 AM      Profile for mr spock1237384        Edit/Delete Post
yes there has been or the vote that they had on the 15th of August to discertify the union was illegal becasue the reason the union is still there is because the Thai's votes kept them there. The lost 36 to 28 or something like that. The whole reason why the Canadians wanted the vote in the first place is because back about 2 years when they started to come and work at Presteve the Canadian workers filed greivances with the union about the the migrant workers and what does the union do? Instead of helping the CANADIAN WORKERS they protect the Thai's and their jobs by making them union. So the Canadians were pissed off and wanted them out.
From: wheatley | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
munroe
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posted 20 September 2008 10:06 AM      Profile for munroe     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
The mindset is incredible, but unfortunately too common amongst dinosaur employers. Canadian workers filed grievances against Thai workers? Under what collective agreement doe one group of workers file "grievances" against another? Looks like the "invisible" hand of the employer setting groups against each other to undermine solidarity and promote decertification.

At least this troll has been a useful reminder of the reason for banding together.


From: Port Moody, B.C. | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged
bigcitygal
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posted 20 September 2008 10:12 AM      Profile for bigcitygal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
mrspock, as a moderator I need to step in at this point.

This is a pro-union, pro-worker discussion board. You seem to have a lot of inside information. I question whether some of it should be made public, such as the number of votes in a decertification meeting. I would assume that meeting was for workers only, not management. So someone, maybe a mole, told you the results? From what I understand this isn't supposed to be public information and it's not cool for you to post that here.

But whatever. You are clearly very close to this issue and are offering one side only. Generally when we criticize unions on babble, it's with the understanding that workforces are better off with them than without, but as institutions they are not above being criticized for their flaws. This isn't what you're doing.

If you could admit your position, (as someone who's a manager or owner it seems) who's invested in placing the blame on the union only, that would aid in your credibility. Not by much though. Nonetheless, I really don't think you have much else to contribute here, since you clearly joined just to post in this thread.

Some facts for you: Migrant workers are rarely represented by unions. The needs of the migrant workers should not have been situated in opposition to the needs of the "Canadian" workers. If they were, yes, that's a legitimate issue to discuss. But not the way you've done it.

And, the detail in which you described the living areas tells me that you may have had a role in setting it up AND that you yourself don't have to live there. Sorry, you don't get praise from us on this site for providing (maybe) livable housing for your workers. The fact that the workers don't earn enough to allow them to rent a room in town, and the ability to transport to and from work, means that you are exploiting their work and labour, which is what most bosses/owners do.

"Offering" to keep valuables in a locked safe (because you're so nice?) in which adult workers need to ask for permission to access their own property should tell you how unjust and humiliating, never mind controlling, and, as already pointed out, illegal, such a practice is. Imagine if you had to do that. Such a practice is indefensible, and the fact that you continue to defend it speaks to your place of power in the relationship with the workers.

I'm unclear about banning you at this point, but will consult with other moderators.


From: It's difficult to work in a group when you're omnipotent - Q | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
mr spock1237384
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posted 20 September 2008 11:10 AM      Profile for mr spock1237384        Edit/Delete Post
for your info bigcitygal the results of the vote most be posted for everyone to see as per the union so if you have a problem with that and think that it is suppose to be kept strictly confidential then perhaps you had better contact the union. As for being banned i would like to asked for what. Because i am anti-union. Look at Windsor not just Presteve Foods, how many manufactoring jobs have been lost in this area because of the union pigheaded way of thinking. Some of these people would still have a job if the union would have bent a little but because they believed someone who pushes a broom around and should get paid 27.00/hr most of our manufacturing jobs are gone and 10 of thousands of people have lost their job.
And this is again alot of the unions fault. Where were they for the Canadain workers when they asked for help in getting Presteve Foods not to allow migrant workers. They sure weren't there helping them and for that what is the CAW (Canadian Auto Workers) union doing in a fish plant to begin with. There is no cars being manufactured there they process fresh fish.
If you want to banned me for speaking my mind go right ahead but i thought this site believed in freedom of speech.

From: wheatley | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
mr spock1237384
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posted 20 September 2008 11:28 AM      Profile for mr spock1237384        Edit/Delete Post
To Munroe
I said that about 2 years ago when they first came the Canadian workers filed a greivence with the union about them, not against them as you state. It was about them they were mad that the company had hired them, so the wanted the unions help in protecting their jobs and what does the union do the go to court to get them deemed union workers.
and also to Bigcitygal
If i appear to be one sided that is because that's what i am. You people are only paying attention to what the papers and the union are saying and taking it as the gospel truth, so who else is being one sided?

From: wheatley | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
Polunatic2
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posted 20 September 2008 11:36 AM      Profile for Polunatic2   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
how is that fair that they get to vote...when they are not even Canadian. By the way are you
All working people should have a right to be in a union. And if they're in the union, they get a right to vote. Period. Nothing complicated there. It's called "rights".

From: Toronto | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
remind
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posted 20 September 2008 11:42 AM      Profile for remind     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Oh yes, we have heard that meme before of "if only the unions would have bent a bit", and we have also observed unions bending, only to get the shaft, after millions of tax payers dollars are also given to the company, and after the union workers bent.

The real issue is that it is the companies that need to bend. They need to bend in their belief that they are intitled to ever increasing profit margins, at the expense of the workers, and indeed the environment.

Moreover, employess that have worked at a place of employment, no matter their status, have an absolute right to have say in unionizing. And those "guest employees", that have worked for 2 years, actually have 2 years senority, which would make them have senority over those "Canadians" who may have worked there less time, than 2 years.

As to your response

quote:
no i am not saying that you are not entiltled to your opinion, of course you are

You tried to infer that I did not know English, and then asked in another post, if I was Canadian, after insisting, wrongly, I would add, that Canadian employees have a right to have a say in employment conditions, while guest employees do not.

What then was the reason for asking if I was Canadian, if not to suggest, either some type of bias, or no right to be expressing an opinion on this topic?

My Canadianess, or lack thereof, has nothing to do with this topic, nor in fact do I as a person.

Workers are under no obligation to vote in a block or a unit, nor should they comply with other workers opinions, it is a individual person's decision, and their alone to make. A person has no right to judge them, nor discriminate against them for their freedom of conscience decisions. Say nothing of thinking it is alright to deprive them, and others, of their voice.


From: "watching the tide roll away" | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
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posted 20 September 2008 12:23 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Mr spock, in the spirit of fairness, you have been granted unusual latitude during your time here. You have been expressing the most troglodite anti labour boilerplate, and are bordering on open racism. Management at your organization seems to have been pretty successful at dividing the workforce along the lines of race and citizenship to their advantage. If any purpose has been served here, it is to underline and obviate the need for strong unions.

This has actually made me a bit ashamed to be a Trekkie. You would have been more honest naming yourself after a Ferengi character.

Anyway, you're in violation of babble policy, (read the first two paragraphs) and you're gone. I've also locked the account of the last remaining unused presteve account, so don't bother.


From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 20 September 2008 12:27 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by oldgoat:
If any purpose has been served here, it is to underline and obviate the need for strong unions.
I'm not sure obviate was the right word, but otherwise I concur.

From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
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posted 20 September 2008 12:34 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
You really get off on this sort of thing, don't you?
From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
M. Spector
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posted 20 September 2008 12:41 PM      Profile for M. Spector   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
What, concurring with you?
From: One millihelen: The amount of beauty required to launch one ship. | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged
confused23
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posted 20 September 2008 02:35 PM      Profile for confused23        Edit/Delete Post
Could you please refer me to these 2 paragraphs i would like to read them
From: Office Manager | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
Michelle
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posted 20 September 2008 02:39 PM      Profile for Michelle   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Okay, here's the deal. You've been banned from our web site. That means you're not allowed to come back with new accounts. That means this account is banned too. That means don't come back.

Here, I'll type slowly so you can understand: DON'T COME BACK.


From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
windsorworker
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posted 20 September 2008 04:33 PM      Profile for windsorworker     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
You see they had a vote to get rid of the union there and mostly all of the Canadian workers did not want them there anymore. I guess i need to back track a little bit, the union had gone to court and because the Thailand girls had been there for over 3 months the union had them deemed union workers. Ok so back to what i was saying the Canadians were ready to vote the union out and they went and had a secret meeting with the Thailand workers and well because of their votes we lost.
Let me shine some light on spocks lies here as many of you have seen this person is a company shill. Anyway yes there was a decert vote taken and yes the majority of immigrant workers decided to stay with the union.What took place before the vote was the owner of presteve fired most of the union supporting workforce and brought in Immigrants to replace them the remaining "Canadian" workers who were still there are the ones who did not support the union thus the reason they kept their jobs.When the owner thought he had all the union supporters gone a decert vote was arranged but to the owners surprise the Immigrant workers rallied and chose the union . Days after the vote two immigrants who were identified as union supporters and organizers of the immigrant workers and were immediately fired. The union went to investigate the firings and while doing so heard stories of sexual abuse by the owner,the union immediately involved the police and charges were brought up on the owner, further investigation of the bunkhouse revealed horrible living conditions 30 bunk beds stacked in a room the size of a school portable very small and it only had one exit . If there was ever a fire in there many would parish because of no fire exits. As well in the bunkhouse had many other fire violations.There was also rat and mice feces in the living and eating quarters. Local 444 took pictures of the bunkhouse and they were featured on our local television stations CBC and a/channel.But the pictures were not released to the print papers. I hope this clears up any mis information previously posted on here by obvious company managers.

From: windsor | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
bruce_the_vii
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posted 20 September 2008 04:52 PM      Profile for bruce_the_vii     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
Originally posted by Frustrated Mess:
It ain't? Don't visit Leamington. That would really burst your illusions.

Another work camp situation in Ontario is the northern bush camps. I read about them, it was actually a post on an Internet Forum. You are paid well, work all the time and don't spend any money. The guy I was posting with said they are a great experience, very healthful. It's good for a young guy trying to save up some money. This would be what farm labour would have to become if it wasn't for Caribians.

[ 20 September 2008: Message edited by: bruce_the_vii ]


From: Toronto | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged
bigcitygal
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posted 20 September 2008 05:45 PM      Profile for bigcitygal     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
quote:
bruce: This would be what farm labour would have to become if it wasn't for Caribians.

What?

bruce if you're quoting someone saying racist shit, do us a favour and don't. If you yourself are saying this you may have earned yourself a week off babble.

And glamourizing farm work? You've got to be kidding with that bullshit.

I'm getting really sick of this thread.


From: It's difficult to work in a group when you're omnipotent - Q | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
oldgoat
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posted 20 September 2008 06:27 PM      Profile for oldgoat     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post
Bruce, what you posted sounded blatently racist. Given that you have a posting history here, I'll suspend your account for a couple of weeks. If you email me or another mod explaining how you misspoke or were misunderstood, then maybe we can reopen it. Another person posting stuff like that would have been kicked out for good.

BCG is right, this thread is going down the crapper. I can't see where there's much more to be learned from this, or to discuss, so I'll close it. If there are more noteworthy developments in this story we can always reopen, or better yet, start anew.


From: The 10th circle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged

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