There is so much to see and do in Paris that it would be important to know what you like. Don't plan to see every possible museum. A lot of the fun of Paris is simply walking.

Prices vary greatly between the chichi neighbourhoods and tourist spots and the more working-class neighbourhoods (which I tend to prefer). Where are you staying?

Paris is compact - you can do a lot of it on foot, with good walking shoes (I don't mean great honking white trainers!!!) Dress discretely. Avoid loud colours.

In Normandy, don't miss Dieppe where Canadians are especially welcome. I like things like war graves too, but if you like graves, in Paris, do not miss the Père Lachaise cemetery. Le Mur des Fédérés is where the Communards - what, 30,000? were shot during the Bloody Week - "La Semaine Sanglante". There are also memorials to concentration camp victims. Père Lachaise also is home to many literary and artistic figures - I can't even name them all - look it up on a web site. This cemetery is a green spot in a cosmopolitan, working-class neighbourhood in the East End where I've spent a lot of time.

If I recall you are vegetarian. Not a lot of veg options in French restaurants, more in "ethnic" places and of course, it is a wonderful place for vegetables, cheese and crusty bread in markets. Not to mention the cheap wine.

Our dollar isn't worth a lot up against the Euro so everything will seem expensive and you will have to be careful of money. The best is if you are in a place where you can cook a bit or at least have a little fridge and make picnic lunches.

Swirly, please either send a private message or tell us more specifically what you like to do. Another question - how is your French?

Guides: in English, Lonely Planet. In French: Guide du Routard. Both have specific guides to Paris, Le Routard even has thematic guides to Paris. But there is a lot on the net too. There is a great site on Paris walks. Must look that up.

Yet another question - you write a lot about disability issues - are you physically disabled? Paris is not the most disability-friendly city simply because it is very old, so it hasn't got those sloping shoulders on pavements everywhere, accessible toilets etc, but things have improved considerably in recent years (I know from experience - a fellow I know who is rather severely physically disabled.) The new city government of Paris is much more progressive than before - a Socialist Party - Green coalition - and have taken a lot of steps to improve public transport and bicycle access. But it isn't easy. It is a huge city, and there is that metropolitan rudeness one finds in huge cities.

More generally on me interests, I love yet know nothing about architecture, and one of the great loves of my normal life is wandering through older neighborhoods, just looking at the houses and buildings (one thing I will miss about moving back to Edmonton from Ontario - far fewer oportunities for this). One thing that has excited me about Paris, as you said, is its compactness - the Lonely PLanet guide has some great walking tour ideas, and as I have a wandering nature, I figure that will eat up at least a day or two.

I have a strong appreciation for art, formerly Rennaisance, currently getting into more modern stuff, and I adore sculpture. I don't want to spend all my time in museums, but had planned to hit the Louvre (its free day that second day of my trip, so I can see it with the hordes the first time, and figure if theres anything I particularly love I can go back on a less crowded day), and a select few others.

I do not have a disability (but as you noted I do have a strong interest in disability issues). On the vegetarian thing, I've been warned repeatedly that my diet is going to be a huge problem, and as such am moving from vegan-lite to ovo-lacto again for my trip (advantage - get to eat milk chocolate this easter in an attempt to adjust my stomach). Besides, how could I do France without wine and cheese?

My French is minimal - I can read it best (can do a newspaper, for example), understand a decent amount of it when spoken at non-break neck speed and can muddle my way through a few basic conversations. It will be a problem, but hopefuly people will be patient with me. Paris doesnt have me too concerned - its more the smaller towns I'm thinking I'll have problems in. Hopefully I can pick up a travelling companion at some point whos better at this than I.

Accomodations are something I haven't planned yet at all, so all suggestions appreciated. My major concern in Paris is just safety and being able to get places easily (I don't want to have to commute a half hour to get where I want to go every day and night). But the Metro is pretty good, is it not? As I'm on my own, I was thinking I'd mostly stick with the hostels - probably the best way in which to meet fellow single travellers to pal around with for a day or longer.

I've been reading travel guides (Frommers, Lonely PLanet, Lets Go), but they only give you so much (and they tend to focus on restuarants way too much in my mind - I'm pretty sure I can find a place to eat wherever I go ). And agina, the Paris ones are jam packed, but it seems that in their eyes, theres nothing in Flanders/Calais aside from a few war sites - I'm thinking there has to be beauty up there to discover, away from the hordes. I don't want to train in, see the Vimy Memorial, and leave again without getting a sense of the area. I know they were bombed to shit in the wars, but there must be something there I'll want to see and do? Probably just talk to the locals (but theres my French problem again).

The métro is very efficient, and in general safe and reasonably clean for such an old one (the staff cleans it well, but in some places there is a lingering whiff of urinal. Must run!

Don't miss tea and tiny pastries at the tearoom of the Paris mosque. There is an enclosed outdoor courtyard, weather permitting. There is also a hammam there, open to men and women and alternating days, and not expensive. Not only Muslims go. Along those lines and in the same area, another must in Paris is L'Institut du Monde arabe (Arab world institute). www.imarabe.org/ The architecture itself is eyecatching. Even if you aren't in the mood for a museum visit, take the elevator to the roof for a splendid view; Notre Dame is very close by as is the Tour St-Jacques.

Paris can be rainy, you know, but you can pick up an umbrella anywhere. The weather is very changeable, it can also be gloriously sunny.

You are arriving on May Day, I believe (or were you leaving on May Day and arriving on the 2nd of May?) May Day is Labour Day in France, (and in most of the world) so not only will there be a demonstration, the métro, buses etc will be running on a holiday schedule and a lot of businesses will be closed.

Edited to add: http://www.vegetariantimes.com/magazine/view.asp?article=463 Here is a recent link from Vegetarian times on veg restaurants in Paris. Warning, many veg restaurants in Paris are horrid, austere places more concerned with nutrition than taste. I've been to Piccolo Teatro which is good and friendly. Arpège sounds wonderful but far too expensive. I'd like to try out Verte Tige, which doesn't sound dull and austere and which must have Iranian touches to its menu. You can see a picture of one of the Sephardic falafal places on rue des Rosiers in this link.

[ 13 April 2003: Message edited by: lagatta ]

La Verte Tige
13, r. Ste-Anastase (01 42 77 22 15). M: St-Sébastien-Froissart. From the métro, walk down r. Pt-Aux-Choux and turn left on r. de Turenne. Rue Ste-Anastase is 3 blocks down on the right. Here's something you don't come across every day in Paris: a delightful, healthy vegetarian eatery. Salade verte tige (€8) mixes hearts of palm with tofu sausage, olives, and coriander, along with other creative ingredients. Vegan options available. Open Tu-Sa noon-2:30pm and 7:30-10:30pm, Su 12:30-4pm. MC/V.

If you eat eggs and milk, you can always get a decent meal at a crêperie, but be careful to specify you don't eat any meat to avoid the little bits of ham that some restaurateurs like to decorate dishes with.

Avoid anywhere in Montmartre, especially around la Place de Tertre. Tourist trap alert!

Have you logged on to Lonely Planet - the Thorn tree (a board like this, about travel) yet? They usually have some good advice. The Lonely Planet guides are worth a look - even if you don't buy it, look at it in one of those awful giant bookstores, or a library. In French, Les guides du routard.

On top, it is a Renaissance (?) palace, formerly a monastery. Inside, though, parts of it have been excavated down to Roman Paris. You go through the museum by descending first to the Roman baths, which are architecturally stunning, and then climbing slowly up through the ages and stages of the building, medieval, Renaissance, C18 ... It is compact but breathtaking. At the very top are the seven panels of (one version of) the tapestry known as La Dame a la licorne, The Lady and the Unicorn, each panel floor to ceiling -- again, breathtaking.

SO glad, really, that you're having a great time, swirrly.

Tell me something: When I was first preparing to go to France, people kept warning me that I'd find the people arrogant and rude, impatient with innocents abroad. Maybe that was mainly a warning about Parisians, but still.

In fact, that has never happened to me. In Paris maybe people keep a certain distance -- you've got your troubles; I've got mine -- that sort of thing. But I met with a lot of kindness. Slightly superior kindness, maybe, but kindness.

Okay, I clued into the fact that the musee de Cluny is the Musee de la Moyen Age, which I walked past at least a dozen times in my few days in teh 5eme. Im not sure though that I will make it inside - I still really want to hit the musee d'Orsay, and I found out when at the centre Pompedieu that the Musee de modern art de la ville de Paris apparently has a decent collection of Mark Rothko's, one of my favorite modern painters, so I have to see that as well. I only have 4 more days in Paris (Im actually there again now, due to slight train issue, but off to Arras today) and lots to see. 11 days is completely not enough.

lagatta - Parc au Butte Chaumont is the best park in Paris by far! Love the view of sacre coeur from the fake roman temple at the top. (I love the panorama of Paris from all the different towers/hills, though I didnt do Notre Dame, and Im thinking Ill skip even going to the Arc). Course, the bush wacker reduced my enjoyment of the park immensely, as did the "lets take advantage of this crowd to act in a pervy manner" guy at the Centre pomedieu yesterday, but such things happen in all places, and I feel very safe in Paris.

I have now stayed in the Latin Quarter, Montmarte and by the Place de la Republique, and think when I come back I might spend the rest of my time in teh 5th - the Seine and being so close to everything is very advantageous.

skdadl - people are actually quite nice most of the time, minus "customer service" at the train station. I try my french, and get some amused looks more than anything else (in Paris I can operate in English almost co,pletely, but in Amiens I occassionally had to muddle through without it). As lagatta said to me earlier, theyre like most people in large cities, reserved but not impolite. Like many major tourist centres though, there are way too many men who seem to think breathing is an invitation, and I hate the fact that Ive started avoiding peoples eyes just to avoid the hassle. Being relatively young and alone Im sure this phenomenon is exacerbated.

Interesting note - I attended a street concert against a right wing government move to detain refugees twice (the actal policy is a bit confusing to me - the vocab on the info sheet was a bit out of my range) but it was very exiciting to attend a protest in France. A lot more fun than many in Canada, well oranized, but people were littering constantly, which ticked me off, and at the end the police joined in locksetp to clear teh square in a very threatening manner. Have seen army officials in the street carrying machine guns - what a different experience.

It is a complex issue, and I don't want to get too serious here, but it is the idea that a foreigner who is resident in France who is convicted of a crime must serve out his or her sentence and is then expelled from French territory. Most of these "foreigners" have been residents of France for years and a good many of them are young delinquents of North African or West African origin who came to France as small children with their parents and never took out citizenship. Some countries don't allow dual citizenship and it was a sore point for Algerians in particular to give up their original citizenship after the bloody war of independence from France.

There has been a lot of agitation on immigration and anti-racism related issues in France for at least two decades, since "La marche des beurs" by young second-generation North Africans for equality and against the rise of the racist National Front. A year ago there were huge mobilisations when Le Pen made it to the run-off of the presidential elections.

Yes, conscience about "micro-pollution" like littering is not very developed in Southern Europe, even in France which is Latin or Southern in that respect. People really tend to see keeping the city clean as a job for municipal workers.

The harassers who pick on young female tourists are a major pain. They can somehow pick out tourists even if the latter dress unobtrusively and don't have huge open maps or big cameras around their necks. In general Paris is a safe city, but these cretins are infuriating.

On the other hand when I was in Paris last summer I got a lot of nice flirtatious comments that I was "charming", that sort of thing. In North America, even in French-speaking Québec, women my age are utterly invisible, for better and for worse.

Have you succeeded in finding vegetarian food?

[ 11 May 2003: Message edited by: lagatta ]

The most pleasant memory was on the subway though. A little Roma boy of about 8 got on our car. It was very crowded and everyone seemed so reserved, until the boy started playing a cheery upbeat song on his accordian. He finished his song by the next stop and everyone clapped and laughed. He was so serious with his little hat and it quickly filled up with change.

I only wish I had of been a bit more cultured then and a little less of a reveller.

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Given my prediliction for tragic socialist and labour history sights, of course I'd like to see the site on the Landeskanal (?) where they dumped Rosa Luxemburg, and her empty grave that is a lefty pilgrimage every year. But you must have something a bit more upbeat to suggest.

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That's the most amazing thing about Berlin - the history. And not the 500 or 600 year old history of some duke or king. But the history of 70 years ago or 50 years ago.

And when you look into it, you realize that Berlin - arguably as much as Moscow or Leningrad -has been a centrepoint of world left-wing activity.

I've been to the place on the Landwehrkanal where Rosa L. was dumped. Just a few hundred meters away, her co-revolutionary Karl Liebknecht was murdered at night in the Tiergarten.

The East Germans also erected a giant, imposing memorial to all the old socialists. Rosa and Karl are buried there, Ernst Thälman is buried there, the first leaders of EAst Germany are there. fascinating stuff.

And Kreuzberg is a district of Berlin which has an incredible left-wing, alternative history. It was surrounded on three sides by the wall, meaning companies and people took off immediately. That left scores and scores of empty houses waiting to be occupied. A highly developed, highly politicized squatter movement developed in the district and remnants of that culture are still there today.

But some of the more upbeat stuff is how green the city is. I think Berlin is always associated with a very grey colour. In reality it's green with trees and parks all over the place.

And the night life is never ending. There's no last-call and so there's a party going on somewhere all the time.

And the Reichstag has been beautifully remodelled and restored with a big glass dome on top of it. It looks really spectacular. I could look at it for hours!

I think the horror of the Nazi past (this past weekend saw the commemoration of the 70th anniversary of the Bücherverbrennung, the Nazi book-burnings of Marxist, Jewish and "degenerate" books) has obscured the formidible history of the workers' and socialist movements there. Nazism was a reactionary response to the strength of those movements, after the failed German revolutions.

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I think the horror of the Nazi past (this past weekend saw the commemoration of the 70th anniversary of the Bücherverbrennung, the Nazi book-burnings of Marxist, Jewish and "degenerate" books) has obscured the formidible history of the workers' and socialist movements there. Nazism was a reactionary response to the strength of those movements, after the failed German revolutions.

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You're quite right, Lagatta, quite right.

However, even more shocking is the extent to which the Communists aided the Nazis and co-operated with them because they made common cause against parliamentary democracy. There are dramatic pictures of worker's aparment buildings draped in Swastikas and hammer-and-sickles.

Apparently the Communist leader Ernest Thaelmann and the nazi parliamentary leader used to work well toegether in the Reichstag to hinder its work and bring it down together.

The whole story about the splits between the Social Democrats and the Communists is incredibly fascinating. And it led to very very tragic circumstances as we all know.

Oh...and I know the memorial you're talking about. And that's not the one I was talking about. The East Germans set up another memorial to the socialists in East Berlin and you can visit it today. There are polots also for Rosa L. and Karl L. ....I wasn't able to totally confirm that their bodies are there, but I'm pretty sure they are.

Yes, the KPD's "Third Period" when it accused SPD militants of being "social fascists" and more dangerous than the Nazis was shocking indeed - but a long time after the death of Rosa L and Karl L, and had nothing to do with them. Indeed such mad sectarianism did help pave the way for Nazism. However certain sectors of the SPD were not entirely blameless either, after all they were involved in the murders of the Spartakistbund leaders. But in any event this contributed to what was no doubt the greatest tragedy to ever befall the workers' movement (and a lot of other human groups).

Yes, rather unfortunate that Rosa and Karl do have to share their monument with some rather less savoury characters. But as you know it isn't just militants with the PDS (former KPD) who commemorate Karl and Rosa every January - there are a great many "alternative" leftists as well.

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Where is Willy Brandt buried? Suppose I could find that too on the web.

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Buried in a cemetery in Zehlendorf, south-west Berlin.It's pretty easy to find.

The grave is very, very simple and plain. Befitting a man of humble origins.

There are lots of archives and institutes dedicated to worker's history. And people who have lived it as well. Just yesterday I went by the building where a union of trade workers was formed in 1844. That was a forerunner to the later socialist parties.

The 5th party congress of the KPD was held there where they resolved to join forces with the Independen Social Democrats (Rosa and Karl's movement) ONe of the leaders that spoke there was Wilhelm Pieck, who was later either the Prime Minister or President of EAst Germany.

Given the hugely powerful workers' movement in Germany, in a sense not surprising that there would be such traces, but astonishing that the folks you mention didn't perish at Dachau.

Are you going to the demonstration about pensions and other "counter-reforms" on the 17th? And don't forget my German-language questions.

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Given the hugely powerful workers' movement in Germany, in a sense not surprising that there would be such traces, but astonishing that the folks you mention didn't perish at Dachau.

Are you going to the demonstration about pensions and other "counter-reforms" on the 17th? And don't forget my German-language questions.

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A lot of them did perish in the camps. And Willy Brandt was hounded in his day by conservative forces for being a traitor and a coward for fleeing during the war. Shocking, hey?

I've been learning German since high school and I speak it pretty well now. It's just a country I find really interesting, although the more I come here, the more I see its warts and flaws.

No I won't be going to any protests against the reforms. I'm a moderate social democrat and fall on the side of Schröder's reforms.

Germany is so bankrupt and crusted and suffering from unemployment that something has to give. Their pension plan alone is rumored to run out of money this fall. The unemployment insurance plan is going to need something like an extra 5-10 billion euros in tax dollars this year alone to make it through the year.

And quite frankly, the reforms that Schröder wants to put through, are minimal.

Sorry for the thread drift folks

"Austria enjoys one of the most generous pension systems in Europe, with the average retirement age being 58 for men and 57 for women. While 54% of people in Britain in the 55 to 64 age group are at work, the figure sinks to under 30% in Austria."

Since not all of these folks were hardrock miners or sweatshop workers, it does seem rather young to me and a waste of valuable experienced staff. But it is so unthinkable over here.

Since there have been similar protests in France this week and they no doubt had some impact on swirlygirl, I think we can excuse the thread drift.

The situation could become really problematic in a society that is getting older and older.

Theres so much more to see that i didnt get a chance to - Mt; St Eloi, which has a ruined Abbey that housed the Canadian HQ during teh Vimy attack, and of course getting down to teh Somme sight to see everythig there, including the Newfoundland regiment memorial (they have preserved trenches - not reinforced concrete like at Vimy, but actual trenches so when it rains; as i does 1 - 2 times a day in the pas-de-Calais, the duckboards sink in teh mud and you start to get a tiny idea of what teh troops faced, if you add in your mind rats and lice and the dead and dyingg and a few feet more mud and the coldest winter on record and constant shelling and the fear of death and cold bully beef and rotting bread and all the other wonders of trench warfare). Met manty many Canadians, and the ones who work at teh ridge are particularly fun and friendly. Arras itself is boring, but the area around it makes it worth it all.

Am now back in paris for my final stretch. Yestreday and today in Montmarte, then off to the Latin Quarter tommorow. Gotta do al my souvenir buying, and get in the rest of my sights (i have 5 more on my list I think, and I might kick Versailles off). But Ill admit that the noice and smell and tourist infestation in Paris is disenertening after the fields of Flanders - Im hoping the river and the Luxembourg Gardens and the Musee d'Orsay can soothe me. Its back to Edmonton soon for me, so I need to get back into it here, or Ill just kick muself and lmiss Paris when Im walking down Whyte ave in a week's time.

Technically, "la double peine" isn't necessarily a refugee issue - most often it concerns people who have lived for a long time in France and sometwime arrived there in infancy, and have to serve out a sentence and are subsequently deported to a country that is utterly unfamiliar to them. But in general the people working on this issue are also involved in refugee and migration issues.

Glad swirly is having such a good time - if the touristy parts of Paris get annoying, just go to the other neighbourhoods I've described, not a lot of tourists in Ménilmontant. But if you prefer bucolic sites to cities I can't help you as I'm a hardcore urbanite.

Of course, I didn't get many things that I wanted to see crossed off my list - the Assemblee Nationale only did tours Saturdays, contrarry to my guidebook's listing, and the Memorial to the unknown Jewish Martyr and Holocaust museum is under renovation, so there were 2 big holes in my plans for the day. But it gave me time to wander teh Jewish quarter in the Marais (really really cool), and go to les Invalides and see the war museums (the section on the deportation and the resistance are amazing), and of course plenty of time to sit at a sidewalk cafe with a friend and chat about politics and less weighty subjects. I may not have seen or done what I planned, but I was not dissapointed.

I spent my final morning running about gathering souverniers for people ( I'd kind of just forgotten to buy anything for anyone else...and all I got myself, aside from 24 rolls of pictures, was a cute tie dyed bag. More than enough in my mind).