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Topic: Is speaking up "piling on"?
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martin dufresne
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11463
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posted 05 November 2008 01:04 PM
There has just been a slightly heated controversy that started with Promotheus30's claiming that some Babblers would murder him if they/we had a chance. Remind and a few of us objected, and a few others, starting with TVParkdale, vindicated Prometheus30's position. Then Michelle intevened and in the process, wrote: "there was also no need for everyone else who agreed with remind to start piling on after the point had been made".
I don't know... Are we supposed to be reduced to silence about a contentious issue once an accurate point is made, even when it remains disputed? Besides, those of us who supported remind made other points and challenged elements of Promotheus 30's claim and TVParkdale's defense. We were no lynch mob either: I counted 3 CONS (including myself) and 2 PROS.
I haven't seen this kind of prudence in other threads, where controversies have been allowed to develop, despite occasional and predictable hostile remarks from onlookers: is the fact that Promotheus30 claims to be a soldier at all a factor in this hands-off imperative? (I am just *asking*.)
I totally appreciate the challenge of moderating effectively any discussion on Babble, and it is generally very well done (athough I have my pet peeve about thread-closing snarkiness), but I am worried about the once-a-point-is-made-cease-and-desist principle and this "piling on" metaphor whenever more than two people agree.
What do you think?
From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005
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Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560
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posted 05 November 2008 02:11 PM
I totally understand that we don't want to become a bunch of tattle-tales, and frankly, I don't want to deal with a bunch of whining in my inbox either.Isn't there a happy medium, though, between people bickering for 50 posts in every other thread because they just can't bear to let someone else get in the last snark or insult, and e-mailing the moderators over every little thing? Why can't we just let stuff go? And I include myself because occasionally I do it too, get into these back-and-forth bickering things. Aren't we all adults here? Why is it so hard to act like adults here? We wouldn't bicker like that in person, would we?
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001
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Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560
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posted 05 November 2008 02:25 PM
My inbox isn't crammed full of complaints about babblers from other babblers. Usually the stuff I end up getting by private message and e-mail is complaints about moderating decisions. Every other moderating remark or thread closing or whatever, seems to generate complaint e-mails lately.I read everything I get. I generally get them by email, usually (it seems) at a time when I don't have much time to go into my private messages and respond, and so I just check the thread to see what's happening, and step in if need be. Or, if the moment has passed and I think people look like they've gotten past it, I won't bother stepping in because why would I drag the conversation back to that? Complaints about my moderating decisions and comments are all read, but I admit that I don't respond to most of them, because generally they're from people who want to tell me what they think of something I did if they're unhappy about it, and I know that responding will be nothing but a time suck since it's not likely we're going to agree, and the last thing I want to do is get into a 10 post string of e-mails or private messages debating the finer points of thread closing etiquette or whatever. So I let them vent by private message and hopefully that makes them feel better.  If I feel like my behaviour was really out of whack (and that sometimes happens) then I'll go back onto babble and correct myself. I do appreciate feedback, by the way. I just don't have time to engage in big long private message conversations with people about petty issues on babble. Besides, I feel like we're all capable of behaving ourselves and working a lot of this stuff out together. So my guideline would be, if it's a huge issue, let me know. If it's not a huge issue, then please don't bicker at each other for 40 posts about who said what, when and where. And if you aren't involved in a bickering match between a couple of other people who have lost their self-control, it's probably not helpful for you to step in and take sides and start arguing about it along with them. It's probably just boring and net-nannyish.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001
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martin dufresne
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 11463
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posted 05 November 2008 03:27 PM
Well, I felt the discussion in the thread in question wasn't anything like that. It touched on a lot of important usually-avoided questions and doesn't deserve the kind of throwaway epithets used to dismiss it. Thankfully, it continues.
And my original question remains. Why do we have to suffer these pejorative depictions (piling on, pissing matches, bickering, shadow moderating, destroying the thread, etc.) of interactions that make some folks ill at ease, but that some of us care to pursue? For once, I didn't ignore them.
Indeed, how about you guys going on your way when you're not interested, instead of instructing us to?[ 05 November 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ] [ 05 November 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]
From: "Words Matter" (Mackinnon) | Registered: Dec 2005
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Michelle
Moderator
Babbler # 560
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posted 05 November 2008 04:11 PM
Because, Martin, most threads have a topic. And usually the bickering and nitpicking is not the topic of the thread.This thread, however, and others like it, are ones where you can discuss to your heart's content whatever problem you have with some turn of phrase someone uses, or some obscure meaning or double-entendre you might have read into someone's post. But does every single thread have to turn into a big meta-argument about whether someone phrased something absolutely perfectly, or degenerate into fighting and back-and-forth insults? It's my job, when I see that happening, to try and get people to end the fight and get back on topic. If you're taking a thread off-topic by picking arguments and picking apart every other word of someone else's post, then no, I'm sorry, that doesn't mean that everyone else should just leave the thread if they don't want the thread derailed into some meta side discussion or argument that you want to have instead of the topic of the thread. And in a lot of threads lately, "bickering" and "pissing match" is a pretty accurate description of some of the interactions that are happening, in my opinion.
From: I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell. | Registered: May 2001
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