Obama can't be allowed to think he was just OWED his votes.

This is a body blow to the project for building a real party of the left in the USA, and it makes it unlikely that any meaningful organization of leftist social movements can be achieved during the O-bomb-a administration.

In the mean time I think the symbolic victory has some value, and certainly probably emotionally important to marginalized persons in the USA, so in that regard, I have been tacitly behind Obama in this. Certainly McCain would be no better.

That said, this mandate is frought with some serious dangers, especially because Obama will enjoy a special privilege to act with distain for international law, and in the interests of the ruling powers of the USA, partly because of the progressive halo that surrounds his election, and because his supporters are so enamoured of him.

It is a very strong mandate and can do some serious damage.

[ 04 November 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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Cueball: Obama now has the mandate to try and pull US imperialism out of the tail spin. This is like handing the cockpit over to the flight attendant while the pilots jump for safety.

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This reminds me of the quote on the front page of the F-16 Flight Simulator Manual. It reads:

"There are fighters and there are targets. There is nothing else."

[ 04 November 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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Originally posted by Cueball:
In the mean time I think the symbolic victory has some value, and certainly probably emotionally important to marginalized persons in the USA....

[ 04 November 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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I personally don't know what is needed, and what can be done. It's all very intangible.

"I believe that it must be the policy of the United States to support free peoples who are resisting attempted subjugation by armed minorities or by outside pressures."

-- H. S. Truman

It may even be that Obama will need to be even more hawkish in order to make progress on any dometic reform. Perhaps this will be of some good for Americans... but the rest of us?

Who knows...

[ 04 November 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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SAN FRANCISCO – San Francisco voters rejected a suggestion to rename one of The City's water treatment plants the George W. Bush Sewage Plant.

The not-so-subtle dig at the current commander-in-chief would have required the change to become effective upon the inauguration of the next president. The name change would have been required on the facility's signage as well as on city maps.

Backers of Proposition R gathered the required 7,000-plus signatures to place it on the ballot.

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President Obama: Change the world can believe in?

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Senator Obama seems resolved to end the Iraq war quickly. But it appears that he plans to escalate the Afghan war by sending in more American troops. This has the makings of a disaster that could well bog down his Administration in a quagmire.

American, British and Canadian forces have been unable to provide security to Afghans, or stabilize the Karzai regime. Anger is mounting in that country at the ongoing occupation. As a number of top military commanders, including the British Commander, Brigadier Mark Carleton-Smith, have acknowledged, the Afghan war is militarily un-winnable. The only exit strategy is negotiation with the Taliban for a political solution. The sooner the Obama Administration does this, the quicker the mounting of casualties can be stopped.

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The Republican's posture more agressively, while the Democrat's posture as diplomats. There is nothing new here. The results and actions are the same.

For example. A big deal is often made about Reagan facing down the Russians in the eighties by requipping and updating NATO's forward based intermediate range nuclear missile systems by introducing GLCM and the Pershing II. The fact is that Carter had already undertaken the "modernization" of NATO forces, on the basis that it was a reaction to the introduction of a large number of intermidiate range SS-20 systems by the Warsaw Pact. This argument was co-opted by Reagan as a justification for modernizing the NATO nuclear strike force in Europe.

Both the GLCM and the Pershing II were already on the drawing board under the Carter administraion.

All reagan did was rip up SALT II. In fact, Carter was already leveraging the SALT II negotiations from a "position of strength" by threatening to introduce the GLCM and the Pershing II to Western Europe. Reagan did some posturing, tore up SALT II, did what Carter had already said he was going to do by deploying the missile systems Carter had funded, and then restarted talks with Gorbacheov on the same basis.

These negotiations were just called something different: INF and START.

I have to work tomorrow... again. Pleasant dreams.

[ 04 November 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]

What happens next is at least somewhat in the hands of activists.

And as for third-party advocates, the next step is working seriously for electoral reform.

[ 05 November 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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Originally posted by Cueball:
Don't read Rosie Dimmano's column today unless you want to lose your breakfast... it start like this: "A bro is the prez."

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Well, I had to go look at the train wreck. The worst part is that, of course, but second-worse is all the sentence fragments and poor grammar. I guess she was going for "conversational style" but it doesn't read well at all.

PEOPLE. . .

Look I KNOW it isn't all sunshine and roses but for Goddess sakes THE USA JUST ELECTED A PERSON OF COLOUR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

I STILL don't quite believe what I saw last night and I'm about the most cynical American leftist you'll ever see (and Michelle can vouch for that).

Do you not think that progressives will hold Obama to certain principles? No one down here is going to relax one bit. There's a lot of work to be done and we're going down a dangerous road.

But at least for one day, one very special day,

M.Spector - yeah, but remember this is the United States which had that whole civil war deal about the colour of people's skins being a major factor in it. This is a big deal. If only it is symbolic.

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
So what? We Canadians have a person of colour - and a female to boot - as our acting head of state. It's no biggie, believe me.

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Originally posted by martin dufresne:
DiManno's mimicking of her idea of "Black speak" is embarrassing. So is some White babblers' contention that Obama's election must be wonderful for Canada's First Nations youths.

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Nice drive by Martin, I guess in fact you are quite out of touch with FN youth and indeed FN's people, if you can say this. And in fact, I find your comment very indicative and very embarassing for yourself.

There is in fact a significant FN support base for Obama, or rather for what his wins means in indicating that exploited and marginalized people can come back and win the highest office in a country. FN youth across Canada have been wearing Obama tee shirts for months and watching this election closely. And I will guarantee that many many more will come out to vote and get political after seeing that indeed voting can change the white's grasp on power.

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Originally posted by Cueball:
It may even be that Obama will need to be even more hawkish in order to make progress on any dometic reform. Perhaps this will be of some good for Americans... but the rest of us?

Who knows...

[ 04 November 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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Cueball
rabble-rouser
Babbler # 4790

posted 04 November 2008 05:57 PM
Voting is wrong.

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Originally posted by Papal Bull:
M.Spector - yeah, but remember this is the United States which had that whole civil war deal about the colour of people's skins being a major factor in it. This is a big deal. If only it is symbolic.

But symbols, as you should know, can be as powerful as anything.

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Yes, it is symbolic. But symbols are by definition representative of something. The Obama symbol represents a continuation of racist, imperial rule by the plutocracy of Amerika.

USians may not know this, but much of the "civilized" world long ago got over the idea of people being disqualified from top government positions because of their ethnicity, race, or gender. They also long ago learned to loathe the culture of smug self-congratulation that permeates Amerika, god's gift to the planet.

And so, when a sizeable minority of US white voters actually votes for a black man for president and this provokes unbridled joy among blacks and the left in that country, it seems quaint to us. Especially when the black man they voted for believes that racism in Amerika is a dead issue. I suppose he'd say that his election proves his point. Others would beg to differ.

[ 05 November 2008: Message edited by: M. Spector ]

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Originally posted by kropotkin1951:
Is it only voting in Canada that is wrong because it seems to me that your reaction to the American election should have been VOTING IS WRONG if that is what you truly believe.

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Originally posted by Américain Égalitaire:
People,

PEOPLE. . .

Look I KNOW it isn't all sunshine and roses but for Goddess sakes THE USA JUST ELECTED A PERSON OF COLOUR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

I STILL don't quite believe what I saw last night and I'm about the most cynical American leftist you'll ever see (and Michelle can vouch for that).

Do you not think that progressives will hold Obama to certain principles? No one down here is going to relax one bit. There's a lot of work to be done and we're going down a dangerous road.

But at least for one day, one very special day,

I feel good about it all.

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Originally posted by Cueball:

I was only being rhetorical, as a juxtoposition to the fascist notion that people should be forced to vote.

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Originally posted by kropotkin1951:
Indeed the most fascist state we have seen over the last hundred years is Australia.

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Indeed, Australia even makes it a punishable offence to spoil your ballot. It's possible to impose a fascist idea in a non-fascist context. Australia has numerous concepts inherent in its forumlation as a state that are directly linked to its history as a colonial project of the British Empire. Imperialism, imo, is an inherently fascist idea.

One might even reverse the equation, and say its possible to have non-fascist ideas operative in a fascist context, and that might be a better way to think of Australian "democracy".

[ 05 November 2008: Message edited by: Cueball ]

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Kropotkin: Indeed the most fascist state we have seen over the last hundred years is Australia.

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